Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

January 1987

Options
2»

Comments

  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,218 Mod ✭✭✭✭slowburner


    Wild Bill wrote: »
    I'd take being 6 in 1982 any day! :cool:

    I can remember the snow in 1962/63 and being in a car that got stuck in Main St, Blessington.

    I guess I could start a thread about Personal Memories of Winter 62/63 and have it all to meself ;)
    Well why don't you? It would be fascinating.
    The only stories I heard from the horse's mouth, as it were, was of drifts of snow reaching the first floor windows of houses in Glencullen. And a girl I met who was born after her mother was transported by helicopter to hospital.
    I'm sure there are loads of stories to be told.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    slowburner wrote: »
    Well why don't you? It would be fascinating.

    I might - but I was very young and would need the assistance of even older folk!

    I was in West Wicklow for Christmas and have but three clear memories; waking up on a Sunday morning to see the ground covered in deep snow and associated snowball fights; the drive to the Church in Grange Con, 4 miles away - with a tractor leading a car in tow that slipped and slid - and the journey home to Dublin (next day, a week later? -can't tell) that was abandoned in heavy snow in Blessington!

    And that's it :)

    Well, not quite - I remember going back down at Easter (April?) and noting the Wicklow Hills were covered with snow.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,218 Mod ✭✭✭✭slowburner


    Even though I am not nearly as ancient as you :D, I remember writing an essay for school. I wrote that the Wicklow mountains are nearly always covered in snow. At least they certainly seemed to be, for at least six months of the year.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    Anyways....back to 1987 :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,796 ✭✭✭Calibos


    Interesting factoid. Bray got triple the amount of snow during the 87 event as in the whole 1 month period last year. Did the isle of man not have a shadow in those days :D


  • Advertisement
  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    Calibos wrote: »
    Interesting factoid. Bray got triple the amount of snow during the 87 event as in the whole 1 month period last year. Did the isle of man not have a shadow in those days :D

    Yep. I lived in Bray in '87 and it was snowy!

    As good as '82 - but only a three day wonder, with no Big Freeze afterwards; in fact the final day started with a prolonged blizzard till mid afternoon (:D) then the temp went above zero and a thaw was well under way by evening (:().


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,218 Mod ✭✭✭✭slowburner


    Wild Bill wrote: »
    Anyways....back to 1987 :rolleyes:
    :confused:


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,129 ✭✭✭Wild Bill


    Following the thread....:)

    We have toured several different winters!

    (I'm practicing to become a moderator :D)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,693 ✭✭✭Redsunset


    Here's an encouraging factoid -- temperatures were above 10 deg on 30 Dec 1986 just about twelve days before the eipic if short-lived cold and snow events of Jan 1987 erupted "out of the blue" -- check the charts for that date and see if you would be predicting such a turn from the pattern, realizing that there was no 10-16 day GFS in those days (I think, don't quote me on that, I'm sure there was no guidance past about 6 days in 1982).

    I was looking back at daily CET data for various cold winters (cold Januaries to be more specific) and that was encouraging too. In some cases, of course, the severe cold had arrived by Christmas (of the previous year), for example before 1795, the coldest January on record, and at Christmas 1962 before the coldest modern January. But in several other cases there were days as warm as we're seeing this year (just passed and in the near future) in this same time frame. December 1819 stands out as the best example, before a January that ranks in the coldest ten, there were several days with readings in the 8-12 C range as we're seeing in this current pattern. The winter of 1837-38 has been running similar to date on both sides of the Atlantic and then continues to do so compared to my LRFs in each case.

    The conclusion is that the current (seven-day rather than today) level of warmth is by no means a negative indicator for cold in January, although not a positive indicator either. The winter of 1986-87 in eastern North America started out rather mild and bland (similar to this winter, not quite as mild) and began to chill with a more active east coast storm track around the time of the European cold wave. I don't recall if there was a stratwarm in that interval or even what year they started to measure stratospheric warmings, would imagine the concept developed through the 1970s but don't remember the details. Another recent winter that showed a marked temperature drop in early to mid January was 1991 after a similar +AO event in Dec 1990.

    So be encouraged by all of the above, if you want snow and cold.
    Winter of 1837/38
    This severe winter was called "Murphy's winter"; Patrick Murphy won fame and a small fortune from the sale of an almanac in which he predicted the severe frost of January 1838 (a 2 month frosty period set in with a light SE wind & fine day with hoar frost on the 7th (or 8th) January). 20th January 1838: Lowest temperatures (known / accepted) of the 19th century in London; -16degC reported at Greenwich about sunrise (close to minimum time), -20degC at Blackheath, -26degC at Beckenham (Kent). The temperature in Greenwich was -11degC at midday. The Thames at Greenwich was completely covered with ice at high water on the 27th January 1838 & elsewhere, ice floes were reported in the Thames or the Estuary.Considerable snowfall across Scotland. However a late start to the winter, with as late as the 6th January, the weather being reported as mild with farmers well on with the work. After the 8th, hard frosts & snow then became a feature of the winter/early spring, with further notes of disrupted mails, hardship for people and livestock. In some parts of northern Scotland, snow was noted to fall on most days between January 8th & May 3rd. snow was also noted in upland areas of NE Scotland in June.A cold winter across England & Wales. (Easton, in CHMW/Lamb): Using the CET record, the average across December / January / February was 1.4degC, or nearly 21/2C below the all-series mean. December was not particularly extreme, but January, with a value of -1.5degC, was in the 'top-10' of coldest Januarys, whilst February, with a mean value of 0.4degC, lay just outside the top-10 coldest such-named months in the same record.
    Well i would not mind a repeat of that,and now to your other question,

    Yes there was a Major Midwinter Stratospheric Warming in the winter of 86/87.

    In fact Nov and Dec had very cold Strat conditions like we're experiencing now,here is the data,
    Now -76c Dec -78c Jan -60* QBO -East
    * indicates the occurrence of a Major Mid-Winter Warming; C stands for a cold monthly mean, CW stands for Canadian Warming, FW stands for Final Warming
    104026.JPG
    104028.JPG

    500mb Geopotential Heights for Nov and Dec 1986 show low heights to our north like now.
    186216.JPG

    500mb Geopotential Heights for much of Jan 87

    186215.JPG

    archives-1987-1-13-0-0.png

    archives-1987-1-13-0-1.png

    Not saying something like this will happen again but those that are so smug now saying winter is over, because its mild now and models not showing anything are not seeing past their nose. Sure, it could stay mild for the whole winter,but to say things are practically done and dusted is laughable to be honest. Yes I'm a big coldie fan and don't hide it and if it does indeed turn out to be mild then so be it roll on the next winter. Just pointing out that the weather can and will change at the drop of a hat, We don't know,only try to match similar situations that happened in the past.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,693 ✭✭✭Redsunset


    Record Cold Spell of 1987: How It All Started

    It is well accepted that the most severe spell of weather in southern England since the 'Little Ice Age' occurred in the unlikely year of 1987 in an otherwise 'average' winter.

    So what brought about such a severe spell and why did it end as quickly as it started.

    The story begins in the first few days of January 1987, looking at the surface chart a cold spell seemed miles away as a strong High of 1032mb sat over Spain with the U.K. and Western Europe in a strong Westerly flow, temperatures through most of Europe were above normal, however in Scandinavia and Northwest Russia it was intensely cold.

    The first change occurred quickly on the 2nd as the Iberian High shifted Westwards and low pressure transferred into the North Sea, a brief Northerly swept south across the U.K. but it was hardly cold.

    By Sunday 4th High pressure was back over France with the U.K. in another mild flow, however by now the models thought something was up and on the Countryfile forecast on the 4th the forecast was for a short but very cold Northeasterly outbreak mid week as low pressure crossed Holland. The models however predicted that the Arctic outbreak would be short and that milder westerly winds would take over again by the weekend.

    The short cold spell was in fact a non-event as rising pressure over Ireland killed off the Arctic Airflow and by the 7th High pressure was centered over the Irish Sea and the weather cool and quiet.

    By the 7th the models still couldn’t decide which way things were going to go and the Met. Office remained silent about prospects for the weekend.

    Things then moved very quickly, a deepening low moved south across Norway on the 8th and into Germany by the 9th and behind this low there was a massive rise in pressure over Scandinavia. At the same time a large pool of intensely cold air had swept out of Western Russia and was crossing Poland and East Germany, at last the models could see what was going to happen and early on the 9th the message went out: 'Very Cold later in the weekend'.

    Meanwhile pressure continued to rise over Scandy reaching 1040mb over Finland by the 10th. Sub freezing air reached Eastern England on the afternoon of the 10th and this very cold air reached all areas by dawn on the 11th.

    The Countryfile Forecast on the 11th was a 'classic' John Kettley saying "The only bright thing on this forecast is my tie!" He rightly predicted freezing temperatures and blizzards all week although even now the depth of the cold was being under estimated.

    During the day temperatures kept on falling as snow showers became more intense, Monday 12th was probably one of the most remarkable days of the 20th Century as temperatures stayed below -5c throughout England and below -8c in several places in the home Counties.

    The Weather Log for Jan. 1987 describes the 12th-14th as the coldest spell of weather in southern England since January 1740.

    Over the next few days the U.K. was swept by blizzards and freezing temperatures as an upper cold pool crossed England.

    The models showed no sign of a break in the weather and on the Countryfile Forecast on January 18th the forecast was for a very cold but drier week, however within 24 hours this forecast went wrong.

    During the 19th a warm front crossed the U.K. cutting off the continental feed and high pressure then formed in the warm sector.

    By the 20th temperatures of 4c-6c were recorded over most parts and a steady thaw began. The next 10 days were dull and sunless the severe spell becoming a distant memory.

    The interesting thing about the cold spell is the poor performance of the forecast models even up to +72 hours, O.K. computers are better now but I still think they would struggle with a similar chain of events.


  • Advertisement
Advertisement