British Army Records, 19th Century

P. Breathnach · 10-07-2012 10:54am #1

It now looks possible that my great-grandfather was in the army in the middle of the 19th century - and deserted twice.

I have a regiment, a smallish time window for when he might have enlisted at about the age of 25, a fifteen-year interval before I can pick up any other information about him, and a late first marriage at the age of about 42. So a period of military service would fit into what I know about him.

If I want to pursue this possibility, I would need to research UK military records held in Kew and, apparently, not available online. I don't mind engaging somebody to do some lookups for me, but it would be a bit pointless if the records do not allow me to link the record of this serial deserter with the barebones facts I already have about my great-grandfather.

I presume that there was some form of basic record created when a soldier enlisted. Does anybody here know what such a record might have contained - for example, home address, names of parents (who would have been next of kin for a single man)?

I am also interested in the discharge record, especially the date and place of discharge (it would screw up my theory if the person I have an eye on was still serving in India when my great-grandfather married).

Comments or advice would be welcome.

shanew · 10-07-2012 12:42pm

Quite of few of the Military records from the National Archive in Kew have been digitized by FMP (UK) and Ancestry. Certain documents can be ordered for download on the National Archives website - although it's a pain to navigate..

If the enlistment record survives it would usually show place of birth - often as the civil parish or town. If more detailed documents are available they would sometimes show next of kin (name and address), or the intended address on discharge... has helped established connections for me a couple of times.

Shane

P. Breathnach · 10-07-2012 1:10pm

Thanks, Shane.

I have looked at ancestry.co.uk, and it seems that records of this person have not been digitised. I remember some time coming across a list of researchers who will dig stuff out of Kew; I might have to find it again.

shanew · 10-07-2012 1:16pm

A few years ago I had some research done in Kew for me by a London based researcher - mostly Coastguard and civil service records. He did good work wasn't too dear..

I'll have a look for his details and see if he's still in business.

AFAIK many of the military records were destroyed - e.g. certain number of years after a soldier retired.

Shane

shanew · 10-07-2012 1:28pm

I've pm'd you the details of the researcher I used.

Shane

Waitsian · 13-07-2012 2:10am

My great great grand uncle, Thomas Dowd, served on two separate occasions, in the 18th Regiment of Foot, serving just over 20 years. He fought in the Crimea, Burma, India and Bengal. He was born approx 1830 in or near Tralee. He died in Cork city in the early 1890s. I found his discharge papers on FMP.co.uk. No enlistment papers online, though they may be in Kew. Attached are examples of each. They do contain fabulous info including physical descriptions, place of birth, place of enlistment, awards, and conduct. There are 4 separate pages to each discharge record.

The most interesting thing about his life is that we have written testimony that his mother was raging that he 'took the queen's shilling.' After his initial 10 years of service, his intended destination was the very city in Canada where his mother and 4 other siblings had emigrated. Less than 1 year later, he re-enlisted. Why? His family didn't want him? His wife didn't want to go? He missed military life? We'll probably never know.

Waitsian · 13-07-2012 2:12am

shanew wrote: »

I've pm'd you the details of the researcher I used.

Shane

Could I please have the name of that researcher Shane?

zagmund · 13-07-2012 10:40am

A relation has an original of a discharge form from what appears to be the 109th Foot Regiment in 1874. I've scanned it, but unfortunately the quality of the copy is pretty poor. I took an A3 colour photocopy and have it at home - the quality of that is much better but it's still hard to read.

I was just wondering whether it was normal for the soldier to have an original ? I guess he would have recieved a copy/original as proof that he had been discharged (and not deserted) as well as the regiment keeping a copy/original for their records.

Attached for reference. I'll try to get a better copy.

z

shanew · 13-07-2012 10:44am

mod9maple wrote: »

Could I please have the name of that researcher Shane?

done

S.

pinkypinky · 13-07-2012 1:27pm

Guys,

I'm late reading this but I also have a tame researcher for Kew if Shane's doesn't pan out.

P.

R.Dub.Fusilier · 13-07-2012 1:40pm

mod9maple wrote: »

My great great grand uncle, Thomas Dowd, served on two separate occasions, in the 18th Regiment of Foot, serving just over 20 years. He fought in the Crimea, Burma, India and Bengal. He was born approx 1830 in or near Tralee. He died in Cork city in the early 1890s. I found his discharge papers on FMP.co.uk. No enlistment papers online, though they may be in Kew. Attached are examples of each. They do contain fabulous info including physical descriptions, place of birth, place of enlistment, awards, and conduct. There are 4 separate pages to each discharge record.

The most interesting thing about his life is that we have written testimony that his mother was raging that he 'took the queen's shilling.' After his initial 10 years of service, his intended destination was the very city in Canada where his mother and 4 other siblings had emigrated. Less than 1 year later, he re-enlisted. Why? His family didn't want him? His wife didn't want to go? He missed military life? We'll probably never know.

This might be the same person.

zagmund · 13-07-2012 1:45pm

I wouldn't mind paying someone to dig details of my relative from Kew, so can either/both of you pass your contacts on to me please ?

When you say "wasn't too dear" . . . what are we talking about here ? £20/£50/£200/£500 ? And (I know it will be a function of what's actually there) what sort of stuff do you get for that ? Copies of documents, transcriptions, everything ever on file for this person, etc ?

Thanks,

z

shanew · 13-07-2012 2:16pm

£25 per hour - back in 2009. Obviously how successful the search is depends on how detailed and accurate your clues are... along with the availability of surviving records.

Most good researchers will quote you in advance how long they believe a particular search will take, and even if they think it's worth attempting. The searches I asked for involved particular record sets, and only took a few hours. At the time I received scans and photos of the documents located.

Since then several of them have been made available online - e.g. the ADM175 Coastguard records are free to download from TNA, many of the surviving Military records have been digitized by Ancestry and FMP UK...

S.

shanew · 13-07-2012 2:31pm

zagmund wrote: »

I wouldn't mind paying someone to dig details of my relative from Kew, so can either/both of you pass your contacts on to me please ?
.....
what sort of stuff do you get for that ? Copies of documents, transcriptions, everything ever on file for this person, etc ?
.....

p.m. sent

re the type of details you might get - for a military person you may end up with an Enlistment record and associated details - like the WO97 page scans attached above. I've seen these files with anywhere from just one page to 20.

Note many of the records, particularly early 20thC, were destroyed or damaged during the Blitz, so you can come across what are referred to as the 'burnt records'. These will usually have corners or one side destroyed, but useful details can sometimes be read.

S.

Waitsian · 13-07-2012 2:35pm

R.Dub.Fusilier wrote: »

This might be the same person.

It is the one and the same. I have those records, got them from Ancestry, but thanks all the same. I appreciate you posting.

P. Breathnach · 13-07-2012 9:16pm

shanew wrote: »

£25 per hour - back in 2009....

No change in that. Three-week queue.