What Calfing Difficulty Do you like to work with

cacs · 24-06-2019 5:11pm #1

I have red suckler breed Limx Cows around 650-700kg weight mid summer Mid sized Cows. I have always used a Lim Bull. I look for a calfing Diff of around 6% with a lim bull. This year i am thinking of switching to Charolais as i am getting to fine in the breeding with Lim on Lim. I don't want hard calfing i am part time farming. What Calfing diff would you accept with a Charolais or would you go Charolais. I have looked around at all breeds and I think AA would be a super cross but i won't be paid for them as stores i would need to kill them. Sim would make a great cross sell Store heifers but bull / Bullocks????. Lim i want to change. Blonde great cattle too long to finish and your not paid for them as stores. Partenaise again not paid for them at the mart muscly jersey i heard them called. I hate jacking

patsy_mccabe · 24-06-2019 7:04pm

I never go over 7 % with limousins, pedigree and commercial. Even at that, cows would want to be good calvers. Didn't have to jack or pull one calf this year.
To me jacking is like topping, in an ideal world you shouldn't have to do either.

tanko · 24-06-2019 7:32pm

cathal irwin wrote: »

I have red suckler breed Limx Cows around 650-700kg weight mid summer Mid sized Cows. I have always used a Lim Bull. I look for a calfing Diff of around 6% with a lim bull. This year i am thinking of switching to Charolais as i am getting to fine in the breeding with Lim on Lim. I don't want hard calfing i am part time farming. What Calfing diff would you accept with a Charolais or would you go Charolais. I have looked around at all breeds and I think AA would be a super cross but i won't be paid for them as stores i would need to kill them. Sim would make a great cross sell Store heifers but bull / Bullocks????. Lim i want to change. Blonde great cattle too long to finish and your not paid for them as stores. Partenaise again not paid for them at the mart muscly jersey i heard them called. I hate jacking

If you hate jacking then dont go over 7%. It would be a kind of a rough cut off figure for me too.
I wouldnt rule out Sims tho, been using them for a few years here, the bull weanlings and store bullocks make the same prices as Lims of the same age i find. And you'll have good replacements. The Charolais cross is the best in the sales ring but on average more chance of calving difficulties with them.

Who2 · 24-06-2019 7:43pm

Go with an easy calving charolais, you’ll have the right sort of calves for the mart. I’m part time here with both a limousine and charolais bull ( ch is 13%) limo goes on anything with a touch of blue in them and heifers and ch on everything else. I had 3 uses of the jack and two were as hard as I ever had but I had chanced the ch on a blue and the other was a freak sized calf at 85 kg . They are also a good bit sleepier as calves than a limo.

cacs · 24-06-2019 10:56pm

Yea it’s a hard call alright. We used to only use use charolais but switched over about 8 years ago. Lims are Easy calfing lively calf’s definitely, but the ADG from lim up to 18 months is about 1kg with bullocks heifers could be less. I would think that with a charolais I could get up to 1.2kg which can translate nicely when your at mart with a twenty month old store. I have a sim cross bullocks this year off lim cows. The adg is unreal compared to to the lims I would say say they are 75-100kg ahead today. I know you have valuable heifers on this cross but sims can be all shoulder and Gutish with poor ends. Lims are more consistent from a quality point of view. I know the finishers are not as mad on sims for there poor kill out compared to other breeds. Charolais will deliver the goods in ring but are the worth the extra work. I work full time and very time poor. I was thinking of a cut of of 6% calfing diff on a charolais even tough I am looking at a bull that is fiston 6.8 out a 52 cow.

cacs · 24-06-2019 10:57pm

Who2 wrote: »

Go with an easy calving charolais, you’ll have the right sort of calves for the mart. I’m part time here with both a limousine and charolais bull ( ch is 13%) limo goes on anything with a touch of blue in them and heifers and ch on everything else. I had 3 uses of the jack and two were as hard as I ever had but I had chanced the ch on a blue and the other was a freak sized calf at 85 kg . They are also a good bit sleepier as calves than a limo.

85 kg freek can happen with anything out the sun roof no doubt

cacs · 24-06-2019 11:01pm

tanko wrote: »

If you hate jacking then dont go over 7%. It would be a kind of a rough cut off figure for me too.
I wouldnt rule out Sims tho, been using them for a few years here, the bull weanlings and store bullocks make the same prices as Lims of the same age i find. And you'll have good replacements. The Charolais cross is the best in the sales ring but on average more chance of calving difficulties with them.

I have lim bull this year 6.5% off vagabond I put him on a few two year old heifers. I will have to see how that goes next December. The only thing with the bull now he would kill yea if your went the field with him. He is only 26 months he’s in the shed on 40% maize diet now. Ronald McDonald has his eye on him now.

Never wrestle with pigs · 24-06-2019 11:15pm

I'll go to around %12 cd on the commercial cows no bother. Pedigrees around the %7, simply because I won't sell a bull to easily with a higher cd %.

Who2 · 25-06-2019 6:47am

cathal irwin wrote: »

85 kg freek can happen with anything out the sun roof no doubt

Out the normal route, I’ll post a pic of him now if I remember when checking them.

squinn2912 · 25-06-2019 9:24am

I just checked our bull and he's 6% we used him on cows and bigger heifers and most calvings have been easy or manageable. Tried Ivor from Dovea on 3 heifers. One calved herself to a heifer calf that's a bit crazy. Another was a hard pull with the jack and the heifer won't take to the calf (can't blame the bull there I suppose) and the other is at note (I'm praying for an easy life with that one).
I've often thought we're too into Lims at this point too but they're great cattle. Would consider going back more traditional for quieter cattle and no horning but there's a trade off. Charolais won't make the maternal status of the herd any better but you'll have the sellers. Simentals are interesting. People say the boys in the mart don't like them. I have a friend who does bull beef. He wound up with 5-6 Sim bulls trying to get heifers. They killed into good money and weights but he reckons they only killed out at 56% where the lim is 60% or more from the same cows. Money is money though at the end of it.

patsy_mccabe · 25-06-2019 11:14am

A lot of the benefit of using char bull on Lim cows comes from the hybrid vigour.

squinn2912 · 25-06-2019 1:10pm

patsy_mccabe wrote: »

A lot of the benefit of using char bull on Lim cows comes from the hybrid vigour.

That's true. I'd ideally move to charolais to cross with our lims but he'd need to be very easily calved. I think they're quieter cattle too. Just for getting replacements the charolais isn't ideal.

tellmeabit · 25-06-2019 3:03pm

Ch cows here for post part. And tried limo bull last year. Fine shapely calf not sure of they will make the same weight but hoping they will see good as the 350kg animals did better than the heavier lads this year and think it may be the way going forward. Tried a few cows to AI bb now. 8 % and 11% hope I won't be regretting next april.

Used to have one bull off mozart running with them until kept replacements

50HX · 25-06-2019 10:36pm

tellmeabit wrote: »

Ch cows here for post part. And tried limo bull last year. Fine shapely calf not sure of they will make the same weight but hoping they will see good as the 350kg animals did better than the heavier lads this year and think it may be the way going forward. Tried a few cows to AI bb now. 8 % and 11% hope I won't be regretting next april.

Used to have one bull off mozart running with them until kept replacements

Did you keep replacements off of mzt

tellmeabit · 25-06-2019 11:05pm

ya, stars not great but like the look of them and the cross with limo has thrown some shapely calves. tried fiston on 1 of them calving next month.
have a couple of Zags, 1 BA2308 and 1 PZB off them.

fanmanad · 26-06-2019 9:59pm

All depends on how well you know your own cows. Calved 24 commercial cows and heifers here this year and never assisted 1. Had cd from 3% up to 13% or 14% all ch and lm bulls

cacs · 26-06-2019 11:26pm

fanmanad wrote: »

All depends on how well you know your own cows. Calved 24 commercial cows and heifers here this year and never assisted 1. Had cd from 3% up to 13% or 14% all ch and lm bulls

Very good point management up to calving is very important also

Lady Haywire · 27-06-2019 12:24am

Anything goes here, highest this year was 17.4%. lowest was probably 4.5 or that. Would have had no problems with calving this year at all, only for all the feckers of twins coming arseways :pac:

Don't think we'll go back to using Salers on heifers though, limousin or nothing. have On-Dit & Bivouac on heifers for next year. (5 & 4.8%) Depends how they calve those as to what I'll go to for a second calf.
Had a 15.2% bull on a second calver after she had a 1% Ulsan calf, that's prob a record jump for me :pac: She was being dieted for 6 weeks beforehand though my father was prone to giving a bit extra to the hungry cow when I wasn't around :rolleyes:

If I wasn't able to pick & choose with AI I'd probably not like a bull over 7 or 8%. Certainly wouldn't be putting a ch on some of our cows, think the bone would come to big to get them out.

GiantPencil · 27-06-2019 1:19pm

Why turn away from Salers? It's the gestation length/fertility in Lim daughters that keeps me away from using them more for replacements.

Lady Haywire · 27-06-2019 1:34pm

GiantPencil wrote: »

Why turn away from Salers? It's the gestation length/fertility in Lim daughters that keeps me away from using them more for replacements.

Got a bad price for a decent enough bull last year & asked a few of the weanling men what was the story. Take too long to finish seemed to be the general consensus.
Be no problem if finishing or selling as stores but with weanlings it's a finicky market.

GiantPencil · 27-06-2019 4:17pm

Lady Haywire wrote: »

GiantPencil wrote: »

Why turn away from Salers? It's the gestation length/fertility in Lim daughters that keeps me away from using them more for replacements.

Got a bad price for a decent enough bull last year & asked a few of the weanling men what was the story. Take too long to finish seemed to be the general consensus.
Be no problem if finishing or selling as stores but with weanlings it's a finicky market.

Ya weanling heifers are snapped up quickly at the mart but the bulls are slower to move for sure. Charolais off a Saler cow seems to cover all those bases for me anyway

Lady Haywire · 27-06-2019 4:20pm

GiantPencil wrote: »

Ya weanling heifers are snapped up quickly at the mart but the bulls are slower to move for sure. Charolais off a Saler cow seems to cover all those bases for me anyway

Used Salers 3 times, got 2 heifers & one bull, so kept the two heifers

One had a charolais heifer this year & other heifer got ai'ed to ch the other day so that's what I'm aiming for.

bogman_bass · 27-06-2019 7:03pm

GiantPencil wrote: »

Why turn away from Salers? It's the gestation length/fertility in Lim daughters that keeps me away from using them more for replacements.

Same here plus the calves put up horns very late so you have a big lump to wrestle with come denuding time

squinn2912 · 27-06-2019 10:28pm

Lady Haywire wrote: »

Used Salers 3 times, got 2 heifers & one bull, so kept the two heifers One had a charolais heifer this year & other heifer got ai'ed to ch the other day so that's what I'm aiming for.

Would Charolais not be risky on the heifers?

Lady Haywire · 27-06-2019 10:31pm

squinn2912 wrote: »

Would Charolais not be risky on the heifers?

Nah, should be ok. Used Bivouac, he's under 5%.
First CH was unplanned as it was the neighbours bull, she calved herself so put it in mind for the second one.

What Calfing Difficulty Do you like to work with

Comments