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23-05-2018, 23:21   #1
Manach
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Defenestration of Prague - 1618

This month marks the start of the 30 year war. This conflict devestated Central Europe, checked the power of the Holy Roman Empire and with the Treaty of Westphaiia marked the begining of the centralised nation state.

The classic work on this is CV Wedgewood book of the same name, while a more recent work (reading ATM) is Wilson's Lutzen (the battle were the Swedish king Adolfus was killed).

In Fantasy, the popular series Ring of Fire is set in that era and finally one cannot mention the war without Sabaton:
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25-05-2018, 00:16   #2
pedroeibar1
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Maybe I’m a pedant, but I’ve always had issues with that wording. Surely it should be 'The defenestration of Prague' and not ‘Defenestration in Prague’, [meaning ‘de’ (out of) fenestrae (windows)]? ‘Defenestration of Prague’ more correctly means that the houses in Prague had their windows removed. Factually, the guys were thrown out through the window of a building, not the windows were thrown out! Abusus non tollit usum (ad fontes…… et omnia quae!).
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28-05-2018, 16:11   #3
VirginiaB
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I was a history major and it was always called 'the defenestration of Prague', a term I am sorry to say we found quite amusing at the time. And please forgive another picky point--it is CV Wedgwood, not Wedgewood.

But thank you, Manach, for the more important matter of reminding us of the start of this devastating conflict. I remember the professor solemnly reminding us, "The seeds of World War II were sown at the Treaty of Westphalia in 1648." She said it repeatedly and I have never forgotten it.
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11-09-2018, 13:44   #4
Snickers Man
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Weren't there at least three defenestrations of Prague?
Once in the Hussite Wars (Miscreants thrown out of a window on to the pikes of the outraged peasants below)
Once at the start of the 30 years War (Catholic emissaries thrown out of a window allegedly to shouts of "Let's see if their Virgin will save them now!" ---and then when they landed safely in a dung heap "By God, she has!")
And again at the end of World War II. Somebody is bound to have been flung out of a window after that.

So using a "the" would only confuse matters
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20-09-2018, 13:17   #5
paul71
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Having lived in Czech republic and married to a Czech girl I can attest to the absence of the definitive article in their language

Indeed this often leads to Czechs not understanding or using the definitive article in English and may help explain the issue mentioned above
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20-09-2018, 14:09   #6
pedroeibar1
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Thanks - that does go some way to explaining it. Bahasa Malay is another language without a definite article.
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20-09-2018, 16:22   #7
Snickers Man
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Ah yes but for much of its recent history, many in Prague were German speaking.

And German has six words (and 15 permutations) for the definite article.

(this conversation is getting silly......)
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20-09-2018, 16:25   #8
Gwen Cooper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paul71 View Post
Having lived in Czech republic and married to a Czech girl I can attest to the absence of the definitive article in their language

Indeed this often leads to Czechs not understanding or using the definitive article in English and may help explain the issue mentioned above
As a Czech girl I can confirm that people are still laughing at my feeble attempts of putting the/a/an in the right places.
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26-09-2018, 13:18   #9
dubhthach
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pedroeibar1 View Post
Maybe I’m a pedant, but I’ve always had issues with that wording. Surely it should be 'The defenestration of Prague' and not ‘Defenestration in Prague’, [meaning ‘de’ (out of) fenestrae (windows)]? ‘Defenestration of Prague’ more correctly means that the houses in Prague had their windows removed. Factually, the guys were thrown out through the window of a building, not the windows were thrown out! Abusus non tollit usum (ad fontes…… et omnia quae!).
Technically speaking it's:
"The second defenestration of Prague" most people though forget about the first one which led to the Hussite wars.
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26-09-2018, 22:18   #10
pedroeibar1
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Certe. Secundus inter pares ex fenestris mittetur erant !
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01-10-2018, 17:23   #11
Snickers Man
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snickers Man View Post
Ah yes but for much of its recent history, many in Prague were German speaking.

And German has six words (and 15 permutations) for the definite article.

(this conversation is getting silly......)
Actually, that should be 16 permutations.

Singular
Masc Fem Neut
Der Die Das Nominative
Dem Die Das Accusative
Des Der Des Genitive
Dem Der Dem Dative

Plural
Die
Die
Den
Den
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20-11-2018, 10:22   #12
ilkhanid
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It could be said that the third Defenestration of Prague was the highly suspicious death of Jan Masaryk, found dead in the courtyard of the foreign ministry in Prague below his bathroom window, in 1948.
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