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Hot Water Boiler - Mobile

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  • 17-11-2020 12:05pm
    #1
    LollipopJimmy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭


    Hi folks, I think this is the best place to ask but I'm involved in a group that care for rough sleepers 365days a year, we run through about 25-35 litres of hot water a night currently from flasks which are filled from a cafe, this has always been our solution but it would be great to be self sufficient.

    The vehicle is a Renault Master so the question is, is there some sort of water boiler we can use, burco type that will run off the electrics of the van. I'd be reluctant to do too much wiring given the sheer importance of this vehicle and if something was to go wrong.


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    #2
    10-10-20
    Registered Users Posts: 6,654 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Not to that extent as you are limited to 12v at ~100W/150W.
    You would need a generator capable of around 6,000w (6kW) to sustain that level of hot water.


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    #3
    LollipopJimmy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭LollipopJimmy


    10-10-20 wrote: »
    Not to that extent as you are limited to 12v at ~100W/150W.
    You would need a generator capable of around 6,000w (6kW) to sustain that level of hot water.

    I've probably explained that badly, the 35litres wouldn't be needed all together but if we could produce that over the course of a night - we would go through that amount over 4-5 hours

    I'm thinking a 5 litre burco type that we could top up as we go


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    #4
    Ddad
    Registered Users Posts: 441 ✭✭Ddad


    https://shop.calorgas.ie/burco-20l-lpg-manual-fill-gas-water-boiler-stainless-steel.html?currency=EUR&gclid=Cj0KCQiAhs79BRD0ARIsAC6XpaWjafDQVh5ahFTrq_lUKle9-VfU4SQLUxBlqy2Sze2xor6Xn95G3o0aAsuoEALw_wcB.

    This might be more suitable and wouldnt require wiring up.


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    #5
    10-10-20
    Registered Users Posts: 6,654 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    Understood, but you would still need 3kW to heat the water as that's what Burko's are rated around.
    Those travel kettles take ~10 mins to get 500ml to boiling, so it's not practical. Any way you look at it, you will need a generator beyond 500ml.


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    #6
    LollipopJimmy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭LollipopJimmy


    Ddad wrote: »
    https://shop.calorgas.ie/burco-20l-lpg-manual-fill-gas-water-boiler-stainless-steel.html?currency=EUR&gclid=Cj0KCQiAhs79BRD0ARIsAC6XpaWjafDQVh5ahFTrq_lUKle9-VfU4SQLUxBlqy2Sze2xor6Xn95G3o0aAsuoEALw_wcB.

    This might be more suitable and wouldnt require wiring up.

    A good option however the van goes to different locations and it would need the gas on as we drive so O don't think its an option :(


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    #7
    LollipopJimmy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭LollipopJimmy


    10-10-20 wrote: »
    Understood, but you would still need 3kW to heat the water as that's what Burko's are rated around.
    Those travel kettles take ~10 mins to get 500ml to boiling, so it's not practical. Any way you look at it, you will need a generator beyond 500ml.

    Thanks for the response, looks like we'll have to stick with flasks


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    #8
    antoinolachtnai
    Registered Users Posts: 9,773 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    LollipopJimmy wrote: »
    Thanks for the response, looks like we'll have to stick with flasks

    One way would be to get access to the heat that the engine is generating.

    A quick search found this gadget on the Internet.

    https://aphcarios.com/products/hot-box/

    A clever mechanic might be able to rustle up something almost as good.

    I would be worried still that this type of arrangement wouldn’t generate enough heat to actually boil the water if that is what you require.

    But maybe it could still work to keep food, etc warm.


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    #9
    LollipopJimmy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭LollipopJimmy


    antoinolachtnai wrote: »
    One way would be to get access to the heat that the engine is generating.

    A quick search found this gadget on the Internet.

    https://aphcarios.com/products/hot-box/

    A clever mechanic might be able to rustle up something almost as good.

    I would be worried still that this type of arrangement wouldn’t generate enough heat to actually boil the water if that is what you require.

    But maybe it could still work to keep food, etc warm.

    I looked at them already, wont generate enough heat to make tea or coffee.

    Again thank you for the reply


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    #10
    PhilipJ
    Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭PhilipJ


    Have a look at this crowd based in the North, Might be an idea to contact them as they will point you in the right direction. https://www.whalevanlife.com/
    This unit is for a hot showers in a panel van https://www.whalevanlife.com/products/expanse-onboard-ge-water-heater/


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    #11
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Why has a camper water heater got a Mains element?
    Can I plug that into my alternator? :rolleyes:

    I wouldn't be concerned about using gas while driving as long as it's fitted right.
    We have propane-powered cars the last decade.


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    #12
    PhilipJ
    Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭PhilipJ


    Sir Liamalot wrote: »
    Why has a camper water heater got a Mains element?
    Can I plug that into my alternator? :rolleyes:

    I wouldn't be concerned about using gas while driving as long as it's fitted right.
    We have propane-powered cars the last decade.

    No idea how it works, hence why i said that they may be able to point them in the right direction...


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    #13
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It doesn't work on mains unless you're plugged in or using an inverter in which case the inverter will be wasting about 20% of the power due to efficiency losses.

    Proponents of 12V water heaters in 12v installations, 24v water heaters in 24v installations and 230V heaters for 230V installations would inspire higher confidence to me in application suitability.

    All sorts of ways to heat water, gas, 12v, 12v/mains dual elements, hydronic, engine heat exchanger via colorifier. etc.


    I suppose I'm going off on one as usual...
    When I see manufacturers, sellers and installers advocating that the hardware they recommend fitting to mobile installations requiring tethering to a mains input while completely ignoring the resources existing in the vessel I have to ask do they know what they're playing at, at all?
    Expensive unit that...for an 8L heater? A pot and a gas stove is <€50...ya know


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    #14
    PhilipJ
    Registered Users Posts: 84 ✭✭PhilipJ


    not sure why you felt the need to "go off on one" as the OP queried about boiling water, I attached a link of a company that may be able to help in his endeavors, the tone of your post i found distasteful. You seem to be knowledgeable in what the OP requires so instead of going on the the attack, do you have a solution to their requirements that is inexpensive.


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    #15
    LollipopJimmy
    Registered Users Posts: 5,430 ✭✭✭LollipopJimmy


    The worry with the gas is more about space and the other materials being carried. If a big box of socks was to fall over it could be disaster.

    We carry clothes and food and space is more than limited. The van is driven around the city centre woth a different driver each night of the week, some who are inexperienced driving such vehicles and flasks would be the preferred option to gas


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    #16
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 5,238 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I tend to go off on one when I notice extortionate hardware that's rather unsuitable for purpose being proposed by persons who do not use the systems they recommend. Moreso speaking about designers and fitters than users and hobbyists here.
    I also do it when I see people charging €600 for a 60L fridge.
    €500 for a set of 3 gas hobs
    €700 for a battery maintainer that's so bad you have to plug the van in 24/7 and replace the battery every 2 years.
    €200 for a 150W solar panel
    Flexible Solar that derates with recommended installation methods and is not UV stable.
    €1k "next best thing" batteries that can only match 150yo design batteries if the latter had decent chargers.
    €3k inverter-chargers that when measured perform no better than €1k inverter-chargers.
    €300 battery monitors that are inaccurate, tuned to be inaccurate or have measurement limitations like goes no further than 100%. Or displays so small you can't monitor anything with them.
    The state of charge ascertained by specific gravity after using any off the shelf charger.
    Companies adding Bluetooth instead of fixing intrinsic hardware flaws.
    Manufacturers charging twice what their product is worth to cover the inevitable warranty replacement instead of making hardware that lasts with the same money.
    Fitters claiming that 20A aux charge from a 100A alternator is good (you'd be lucky if you got that from the factory setup)

    The vast majority of people designing products for this market are working in offices in urban centres commuting from their bricks and mortar homes seem to think that every mobile installation is permanently cabled to a power pedestal and that there's no requirement to think outside the box.


    Here's a dual-element version that you can plug into an alternator.

    Here's a diesel/kerosene hydronic water heating system.

    eberspacher-waterdiagram.jpg

    Here's how to use the engine coolant independently or on a secondary coil of that same system
    boat-water-heater2.jpg

    The same can be done with a heat exchanger off the exhaust.

    A tankless water heater can heat water on demand with propane for about €150

    Here's ELV elements for calorifiers


    Here's a unit you can use to divert excess alternator/solar/mains charging to the hot water vessel.

    If you are going shore power/genset hybrid you can get a tankless heater that accepts preheated water

    Gas burco mentioned earlier is a good shout too.


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