America is over for irish/europeans?

mammajamma · 08-11-2018 11:00pm #1

Its a broad title, but generally speaking has the allure of the United States just simply worn off Irish people by now (and by extension, most developed nations)

Among younger nieces and nephews, their reaction to the United States is "no, not ever interested in going there". When I think back in time (not too long ago even), the united states was almost like a "must-do" for irish people, even if only for a holiday or a j1 kind of thing.

Not bringing anything about left or right, or republican/democrat into it specifically, is it just simply that the United States is such a divided and broken place now?

Even discounting the propaganda effect of the 80's and 90's, is it just seen as a washed up place now? Obviously our country has become wealthier over time, but I think theres more to it than that.

Its the impression I get. I spent several years living there, and I can truthfully say I have no desire ever to go back. Not because of one particular government or anything, it just seems like such a hateful place to live now, everyone on top of everyone about every little bloody thing, everythings an "issue" and "problematic".

Imagine the idea of rearing children there, eeesh! Anyone else have the same inkling, especially from younger people? Or completely different point of view?

Pherekydes · 08-11-2018 11:05pm

Sheesh, hadn't heard that. Going over next August, for the first time. I hope it's still open...

ToddyDoody · 08-11-2018 11:08pm

mammajamma wrote: »

Its a broad title, but generally speaking has the allure of the United States just simply worn off Irish people by now (and by extension, most developed nations)

Absolutely not in the slightest, in my opinion.

While people may not be travelling there to live like they once did, perhaps, there is no doubt in my mind that, like it or not, American culture / technology / imagination is more prevalent than it ever was.

Frank O. Pinion · 08-11-2018 11:08pm

More important than most other things, causal sex in America is much better than in Ireland. Worth a visit for that alone.

Agricola · 08-11-2018 11:08pm

If you were fairly well off, living on the west coast, nice climate, house, car, insulated from the Hunger Games type society they have there, it would be a good life. Would I go there with nothing but the American Dream™? Not a hope.

Atlantic Dawn · 08-11-2018 11:11pm

Tell that to the clowns watching The Kardashians and putting on Beverly Hills 90210 accents when they are actually from the posh part of Tallaght.

Grandeeod · 08-11-2018 11:13pm

mammajamma wrote: »

Its a broad title, but generally speaking has the allure of the United States just simply worn off Irish people by now (and by extension, most developed nations)

Among younger nieces and nephews, their reaction to the United States is "no, not ever interested in going there". When I think back in time (not too long ago even), the united states was almost like a "must-do" for irish people, even if only for a holiday or a j1 kind of thing.

Not bringing anything about left or right, or republican/democrat into it specifically, is it just simply that the United States is such a divided and broken place now?

Even discounting the propaganda effect of the 80's and 90's, is it just seen as a washed up place now? Obviously our country has become wealthier over time, but I think theres more to it than that.

Its the impression I get. I spent several years living there, and I can truthfully say I have no desire ever to go back. Not because of one particular government or anything, it just seems like such a hateful place to live now, everyone on top of everyone about every little bloody thing, everythings an "issue" and "problematic".

Imagine the idea of rearing children there, eeesh! Anyone else have the same inkling, especially from younger people? Or completely different point of view?

Well now, judging by this little forum in the scheme of things, the bolded bit is just like little old Ireland right now.

Assetbacked · 08-11-2018 11:21pm

US is an example of unrestrained capitalism where morals are putrid, the people are self-absorbed and narcissistic beyond belief, inequality is astounding, racism is epidemic, intelligence is low on a wide scale and the beacon of depravity is lit bright.

The greatest threat to world peace and should not be pandered to by our spineless, idiot politicians.

mammajamma · 08-11-2018 11:24pm

Grandeeod wrote: »

Well now, judging by this little forum in the scheme of things, the bolded bit is just like little old Ireland right now.

I get pissed off with a lot of American culture, especially having had to live in it for years. So its one of those semi-ironic things.

I cant think of anything worse than Ireland becoming like America. American society is kicking up a ruckus BECAUSE of the problems it has allowed develop.

The way I see it, its better to kick up a ruckus here BEFORE we have those same divisive problems. Ireland is always following the American lead in society, and its a disaster in the making. Theres still time to learn lessons from others mistakes.

Some people, however, just cant see problems until they have already deeply rooted themselves. Its kind of maddening.

But back on point, I still think the United States has fallen off a cliff in attraction for younger people here.

wakka12 · 08-11-2018 11:26pm

Its not all that bad. Most americans are just good people trying to make the best life they can for their family, just like most countries. Its still a very popular place for irish to visit, most people I know went travelling all along the west coast of the US last summer (im in college)

mammajamma · 08-11-2018 11:27pm

Assetbacked wrote: »

US is an example of unrestrained capitalism where morals are putrid, the people are self-absorbed and narcissistic beyond belief, inequality is astounding, racism is epidemic, intelligence is low on a wide scale and the beacon of depravity is lit bright.

The greatest threat to world peace and should not be pandered to by our spineless, idiot politicians.

Its lost control of itself, and I just don't see any reasonable way its going to get back on track. Extreme ways, maybe.

ceadaoin. · 08-11-2018 11:32pm

In reality, "on the ground", everything is the same as ever. People say hello to each other, help people out and get along just fine for the most part. Yes, it seems that hateful opinions and incidents are on the rise but the vast vast majority of people are just normal folk going about their lives with no chips on their shoulders. I find people here way friendlier and open than in Ireland tbh.

The US still has a lot more to offer people than many other countries in the world and that isn't going to change anytime soon

Noveight · 08-11-2018 11:35pm

If I remember correctly Louis Theroux did an insightful documentary on how half the population are medicated up to their eyeballs.

Kinda takes the shine off the American Dream but it's still somewhere I'll visit in time.

Grandeeod · 08-11-2018 11:35pm

Apologies folks. I really thought my bolded quote up thread was tuning in to the anti dole gang that frequent here.:D

it just seems like such a hateful place to live now, everyone on top of everyone about every little bloody thing, everythings an "issue" and "problematic.

Obviously having a night off and missing the comparison.

Mountainsandh · 08-11-2018 11:36pm

wakka12 wrote: »

Its not all that bad. Most americans are just good people trying to make the best life they can for their family, just like most countries. Its still a very popular place for irish to visit, most people I know went travelling all along the west coast of the US last summer (im in college)

I went to the West coast twice, and would love to go back to discover other places there if I could afford it.

There's more to America than all the bad stuff we see and hear about. I've found the people lovely and friendly, I love all the wacky-ness, the scenery, and ... yes... the patriotism (if you just look at the positive sides of it).

I love that they celebrate people being their own eccentric selves.

I know the flip side of all of the above (except for the scenery) is also America's downfall, it's very sad, but so far for me, it's not dampening my enthusiasm as a tourist.

Not sure I'd like my children to go live there though, and don't think I'd like it either.

wakka12 · 08-11-2018 11:37pm

Assetbacked wrote: »

US is an example of unrestrained capitalism where morals are putrid, the people are self-absorbed and narcissistic beyond belief, inequality is astounding, racism is epidemic, intelligence is low on a wide scale and the beacon of depravity is lit bright.

The greatest threat to world peace and should not be pandered to by our spineless, idiot politicians.

Why is everyone so harsh on the US? Especially on boards?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homeless_population
Homeless rate the same as every other first world country

Inequality rate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality
Worse than all EU nations but still better than many other non third world nations like china brazil argentina and chile

Racism
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/10061025/Worlds-most-racially-intolerant-countries-mapped.html
Less racist country than france, italy, poland, russia, finland

Why does everyone care so much about USA? Obsessed with saying its the worst place in the world, when its betetr place to live than most places, even if youre a black gay poor woman, Im sure if most countries were so scrutinised in every worst aspect of their society by international media then most countries would looklike horrible countries filled with horrible people

Case in point is that when that new brazilian president starts coming out with crazy notions and campaigns international media will barely care about it compared to how the world goes crazy for every insignificant tweet donal trump posts

Effects · 08-11-2018 11:38pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

when they are actually from the posh part of Tallaght.

Firhouse?

mad muffin · 08-11-2018 11:42pm

I was in New York recently visiting my grandad. Couldn’t get over the state of the place. Potholes everywhere. Garbage piles everywhere. The stench of the place was overwhelming.

Everything was dirty and rundown. I suppose when people want to pay minimal tax there’s not enough money for the upkeep and maintenance of the city.

kenmc · 08-11-2018 11:48pm

If I never had to set foot in America again, I'd be fine with that. I did the J1 there, 95 I think, and numerous business trips since, could never imagine living there. Can't see myself ever going there voluntarily again. I could see myself living in China, India, Thailand etc much easier than ever living in America.

Was in NJ and pa in june, and the first piece of fresh fruit I saw was in my kitchen when I got home.

ArnoldJRimmer · 08-11-2018 11:48pm

Having lived here for the last seven years, I was going to comment that the Irish media is overly negative about the US, looks like a lot of posters on this thread are too

Its really not that bad people. Like Ireland, it has its good and bad points. If you're willing and able to work, you can be successful (good thing). If you fall on hard times or become ill, not such a pleasant place (bad thing). There are still plenty of opportunities for young people here, both for work and having the craic.

Mostly though, its a fcuking massive and diverse country, life is a lot different in Austin than the south side of Chicago for example. Or any of the rural areas in the midwest versus the east coast.

Harry Palmr · 08-11-2018 11:53pm

mad muffin wrote: »

I was in New York recently visiting my grandad. Couldn’t get over the state of the place. Potholes everywhere. Garbage piles everywhere. The stench of the place was overwhelming.

Everything was dirty and rundown. I suppose when people want to pay minimal tax there’s not enough money for the upkeep and maintenance of the city.

Going back to the 70s? Excellent, we'll get some great music and films soon!

Seriously though the social and built infrastructure of the USA is in a parlous condition.

08-11-2018 11:53pm

Went to New York a few years back, absolutely hated it, no desire to return ever. The people are a large part of the reason why. Everybody was miserable and even more zombie like than Dublin.

Everything was driven by money, again even more so than here.

riclad · 09-11-2018 12:07am

ireland is Booming ,why go to america to get an average job.
IF you get sick and you don,t have good health insurance ,
it,ll cost a fortune, to get medical care .
At least in ireland , there are not mass shootings every month .
There seems to be floods , hurricanes , every month in america.
We have fast internet, cable tv , the only thing america has over ireland is good weather ,sunshine .
American infrastructure ,roads ,bridges are neglected ,
so they can give more tax cuts to the rich, and buy more nuclear weapons.
America is more corrupt under trumps government,
the laws are written for the rich and large corporations.
one example, they passed a law so isps can sell anyones browsing history to advertisers .
so f u to consumers privacey.
it.s the land of the free , where people go to jail cos they cant pay for bail, or for just smoking hash .

In the 70,s and the 80s, america looked great ,compared
with ireland where we had 3 tv stations ,
3 or 4 radio stations .
Now we have fast internet, 100,s of tv stations and music streaming
on phones .
we have caught up with america in regard to tech and media.
So why go there .
Why support an extreme conservative with your dollars ?
The average person is more free in ireland than someone in the us .
I,m not saying its a bad country to live in, IF you have a good job and are earning a high salary .
I,M not sure if the social structure or the economy or the environment in america can survive on another 5 years of trump government.
There,s a limit of how much even the american government can borrow .

riffmongous · 09-11-2018 12:08am

Totally agree OP, absolutely zero interest in going there

09-11-2018 12:09am

Been to a few spots and didn't like it. Nothing specific it just sets me on edge or something. That said i had a grand time in nyc

irishguitarlad · 09-11-2018 12:21am

I'd like to visit and see the place but I would never live there, happy out on mainland Europe.

09-11-2018 12:22am

Nah, it hasn't ceased to exist overnight according to reliable sources.

mikhail gorbachev2 · 09-11-2018 12:26am

I would move to America tomorrow but all my commitments are in europe,
maybe when retired go to Texas for 2 weeks on a ranch

biko · 09-11-2018 12:48am

I go once a year on average, as do many friends.
No-one I know have been discouraged because of the current administration.
Wouldn't move there thought, Ireland is best.

Grayson · 09-11-2018 12:52am

mammajamma wrote: »

I get pissed off with a lot of American culture, especially having had to live in it for years. So its one of those semi-ironic things.

I cant think of anything worse than Ireland becoming like America. American society is kicking up a ruckus BECAUSE of the problems it has allowed develop.

The way I see it, its better to kick up a ruckus here BEFORE we have those same divisive problems. Ireland is always following the American lead in society, and its a disaster in the making. Theres still time to learn lessons from others mistakes.

Some people, however, just cant see problems until they have already deeply rooted themselves. Its kind of maddening.

But back on point, I still think the United States has fallen off a cliff in attraction for younger people here.

I don't think the politics matter. As in I seem to get the impression that you're saying it's the whole tea party on one side and SJW's on the other. And it's those politics that I don't think matter too much.

I'm just back from a month there, in California, and I would never move there. The people are generally very nice. I didn't see any of the culture war crap that people go on about online. There's so much poverty. I saw people who were obviously sick on the sides of the street. It struck me as a country that doesn't care. It's a place where the dollar rules above all else. If you happen to be well off you can have a good life but otherwise it's just horrible.
It's weird though, even the tech people I worked with, who all own new teslas, thought they weren't well off. Silicon Valley is weird though. I know graduates who turned down 120k a year because they got offered more elsewhere. And yet there are people with minimum wage struggling to get by. I have no idea how locals actually afford to live there at all.

topper75 · 09-11-2018 12:56am

Deleted User wrote: »

Went to New York a few years back, absolutely hated it, no desire to return ever. The people are a large part of the reason why. Everybody was miserable and even more zombie like than Dublin.

Everything was driven by money, again even more so than here.

Why oh why oh why do Irish go to one of the eastern cities and think they have seen America?

They are ludicrously unrepresentative of the rural interior. If you want to see America - go south or west, or ideally both. There is nowhere like it on earth. Mindblowing.

Black Swan · 09-11-2018 12:57am

mammajamma wrote: »

Imagine the idea of rearing children there, eeesh! Anyone else have the same inkling, especially from younger people? Or completely different point of view?

I crossed the pond a few years back, and while I often miss Eire, I would not say that America is uniformly trashed by past and present politics or "issues." Just like any nation, it has its Troubles that on occasion come to the surface and must be endured, along with a grand laugh at the latest appearance of the Baby Balloon.

There are bright spots too that also endure in America year-after-year that herald the coming of millions of Irish immigrants to its shores, they in turn becoming a vital resource to build that nation. And there is fun shared too on a national scale. Where will you be on 17 March 2019, when a whole nation celebrates the Irish on a national holiday, and may do so by tipping many a glass in salute, or just fun, of Guinness or Harp or Jameson or Bushmills (or whatever is your choice of Irish brew)? Of the 195 nations in the world today, aside from Eire itself, how many nations celebrate the Irish every year on St Paddy's Day? It would be grand to be at St James Gate, but also you could have a good time across the pond on Rush and Division at the appointed hour not far from a river dyed green and an earlier Miracle Mile parade.

Just my 2 euros (or bucks for now).

sdanseo · 09-11-2018 12:58am

Been 3 times in 10 years, most recently this month to CA and NV. Vegas is probably the most extreme example of American excess and lack of restraint.

The US is nice in small doses and the service / hospitality culture is certainly better, staff are friendlier albeit for the tips.

Society though is absolutely broken. Specifically I witnessed it in LA and San Diego but I'm sure in all the major cities there were homeless people everywhere some with very obvious mental health issues. No bar below which no one can fall as in Europe (not that lately, we've been much better).

I don't think I could ever live there permanently.

Kitty6277 · 09-11-2018 12:59am

I've not been to America yet, but as things stand, I'd go there for a holiday but have no desire to ever live there. I will definitely move out of Ireland at some point, but it won't be to America. Not sure exactly of my reasons for that, I just don't feel like it's somewhere I'd like to live

mikhail gorbachev2 · 09-11-2018 1:02am

Black Swan wrote: »

I crossed the pond a few years back, and while I often miss Eire, I would not say that America is uniformly trashed by past and present politics or "issues." Just like any nation, it has its Troubles that on occasion come to the surface and must be endured, along with a grand laugh at the latest appearance of the Baby Balloon.

There are bright spots too that also endure in America year-after-year that herald the coming of millions of Irish immigrants to its shores, they in turn becoming a vital resource to build that nation. And there is fun shared too on a national scale. Where will you be on 17 March 2019, when a whole nation celebrates the Irish on a national holiday, and may do so by tipping many a glass in salute, or just fun, of Guinness or Harp or Jameson or Bushmills (or whatever is your choice of Irish brew)? Of the 195 nations in the world today, aside from Eire itself, how many nations celebrate the Irish every year on St Paddy's Day? It would be grand to be at St James Gate, but also you could have a good time across the pond on Rush and Division at the appointed hour not far from a river dyed green and an earlier Miracle Mile parade.

Just my 2 euros (or bucks for now).

i believe ya mate
i would love to go over even for a month

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 09-11-2018 2:38am

No interest in going, not even for a holiday.

Seems to be a much more aggressive place than it used to be (and not just since Trump guy in, but he hasn't helped) and not as free add they'd have you believe if you were to live there.

Manic Moran · 09-11-2018 5:27am

topper75 wrote: »

Why oh why oh why do Irish go to one of the eastern cities and think they have seen America?

They are ludicrously unrepresentative of the rural interior. If you want to see America - go south or west, or ideally both. There is nowhere like it on earth. Mindblowing.

This. Or San Fancisco.

San Francisco has a very serious image problem which nobody wants to talk about. https://www.sfchronicle.com/news/article/SF-tourist-industry-struggles-to-explain-street-12534954.php or https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/matier-ross/article/SF-s-appalling-street-life-repels-residents-13038748.php

Yet despite that, folks doing the tourist thing go to the big cities. I guess it’s understandable, they are centers of culture and it’s where the airports are. How many folks have actually explored the rest of the US?

I just finished a road trip this week, going San Francisco to Vegas to San Antonio. Discovered a delightful spot for dinner in Flagstaff, AZ. Which itself is a very pretty town, and it doesn’t seem to have much of a homeless problem, doesn’t have potholes, and has friendly people. My accent bemused the guys in the wheel repair shop in Clovis, New Mexico, I may well have been the first Irishman to ever set foot in the place when I drove in three days ago, but they checked out my wheel for me cheerfully and without cost when I swung by, whilst having a conversation. Who has been to Cheyenne, WY? It’s easy to get to, it’s on I-80. I learned to fly in Elizabethtown, Kentucky, a nice friendly quiet part of the US, and about as far in style from New York as possible. As of next week, I will no longer be living in Dublin, California, but though it’s only 35 miles from San Francisco, it is an entirely different way of life, and I though I doubt I could ever live in SF, Dublin is great. I drive transcontinental again (my 6th time doing it) week, places like Phoenix and El Paso are on my route. And even at that, those are the cities, it’s sometimes worth just pulling off into small towns off the motorway. Dinner three nights ago was in Brownwood, TX. I had never heard of the place, would never try to visit it, but it’s still a nice part of the US.

But it’s “I went to New York City and didn’t like it”. That’s fair. I hate NYC as well. But I love living in the US. Just in partof the 99% of the country which is not high density urban area.

Perhaps the greatest irony is that the least pleasant parts of the US tend to be the parts with which folks on Boards tend to be the most supportive. (High taxes, heavily Democrat, etc).

ardinn · 09-11-2018 7:52am

riclad wrote: »

ireland is Booming ,why go to america to get an average job.
IF you get sick and you don,t have good health insurance ,
it,ll cost a fortune, to get medical care .
At least in ireland , there are not mass shootings every month .
There seems to be floods , hurricanes , every month in america.
We have fast internet, cable tv , the only thing america has over ireland is good weather ,sunshine .
American infrastructure ,roads ,bridges are neglected ,
so they can give more tax cuts to the rich, and buy more nuclear weapons.
America is more corrupt under trumps government,
the laws are written for the rich and large corporations.
one example, they passed a law so isps can sell anyones browsing history to advertisers .
so f u to consumers privacey.
it.s the land of the free , where people go to jail cos they cant pay for bail, or for just smoking hash .

In the 70,s and the 80s, america looked great ,compared
with ireland where we had 3 tv stations ,
3 or 4 radio stations .
Now we have fast internet, 100,s of tv stations and music streaming
on phones .
we have caught up with america in regard to tech and media.
So why go there .
Why support an extreme conservative with your dollars ?
The average person is more free in ireland than someone in the us .
I,m not saying its a bad country to live in, IF you have a good job and are earning a high salary .
I,M not sure if the social structure or the economy or the environment in america can survive on another 5 years of trump government.
There,s a limit of how much even the american government can borrow .

Sorry - But is this supposed to be a poem?

Mountainsandh · 09-11-2018 8:00am

Manic Moran wrote: »

This. Or San Fancisco.

San Francisco has a very serious image problem which nobody wants to talk about. https://www.sfchronicle.com/news/article/SF-tourist-industry-struggles-to-explain-street-12534954.php or https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/matier-ross/article/SF-s-appalling-street-life-repels-residents-13038748.php

Yet despite that, folks doing the tourist thing go to the big cities. I guess it’s understandable, they are centers of culture and it’s where the airports are. How many folks have actually explored the rest of the US?

I just finished a road trip this week, going San Francisco to Vegas to San Antonio. Discovered a delightful spot for dinner in Flagstaff, AZ. Which itself is a very pretty town, and it doesn’t seem to have much of a homeless problem, doesn’t have potholes, and has friendly people. My accent bemused the guys in the wheel repair shop in Clovis, New Mexico, I may well have been the first Irishman to ever set foot in the place when I drove in three days ago, but they checked out my wheel for me cheerfully and without cost when I swung by, whilst having a conversation. Who has been to Cheyenne, WY? It’s easy to get to, it’s on I-80. I learned to fly in Elizabethtown, Kentucky, a nice friendly quiet part of the US, and about as far in style from New York as possible. As of next week, I will no longer be living in Dublin, California, but though it’s only 35 miles from San Francisco, it is an entirely different way of life, and I though I doubt I could ever live in SF, Dublin is great. I drive transcontinental again (my 6th time doing it) week, places like Phoenix and El Paso are on my route. And even at that, those are the cities, it’s sometimes worth just pulling off into small towns off the motorway. Dinner three nights ago was in Brownwood, TX. I had never heard of the place, would never try to visit it, but it’s still a nice part of the US.

But it’s “I went to New York City and didn’t like it”. That’s fair. I hate NYC as well. But I love living in the US. Just in partof the 99% of the country which is not high density urban area.

Perhaps the greatest irony is that the least pleasant parts of the US tend to be the parts with which folks on Boards tend to be the most supportive. (High taxes, heavily Democrat, etc).

We were in the Road Kill Cafe in Seligman (AZ), and had a grand old chat with a lady there, who on hearing that my kids were Irish, from a French mother, was mightily impressed that they could speak French, Irish, and had what she said with awe, fluent English ....

(my kids wouldn't really say that they can "speak" Irish)
She said she knew about Scotland, and how lucky we were we could just head off for a drive there whenever we fancied.

In Rachel in the Little Ale'Inn (alien highway), some guy and his family on a fun trip smiled at us and asked if we were there for the folk-lore/social commentary-type interest in the area, or if we were believers (in the whole Area 51 myth). We somewhat embarrassingly admitted it was for the whole fun of it (and social/lore aspect), and he agreed it was great fun drinking in the crazyness sometimes, and directed us to one of the entrance gates.

In Cambria we met a gay couple with their Chihuahuas exhibiting their vintage car as they do yearly. They apologized profusely for Trump with a laugh and wished us a nice stay.

I've more stories for every place we stopped at, but no people stories from the big towns.
It's nice to get out of the big towns !

archer22 · 09-11-2018 2:00pm

Americans are like knackers on steroids :pac:

JohnCleary · 09-11-2018 2:07pm

I'm a relatively well traveled person. When I meet with like-minded people, they're shocked that i've never flown West of Ireland (It's all Asia / SE Asia). Totally flabbergasted that I have no interested in visiting the US.

Sorry buddy, I travel to see new cultures / experiences. I really have no intention to travel to the US, despite many invitations from fellow travelers, colleagues, clients etc.

I still can't understand the tipping culture in the US. Pay the staff a working wage and absorb this in the menu price ffs.... not that hard!

mad muffin · 09-11-2018 2:10pm

I was thinking about it today. America reminds me of a modern day feudal Japan.

Grayson · 09-11-2018 2:12pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

This. Or San Fancisco.

San Francisco has a very serious image problem which nobody wants to talk about. https://www.sfchronicle.com/news/article/SF-tourist-industry-struggles-to-explain-street-12534954.php or https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/matier-ross/article/SF-s-appalling-street-life-repels-residents-13038748.php

Yet despite that, folks doing the tourist thing go to the big cities. I guess it’s understandable, they are centers of culture and it’s where the airports are. How many folks have actually explored the rest of the US?

I just finished a road trip this week, going San Francisco to Vegas to San Antonio. Discovered a delightful spot for dinner in Flagstaff, AZ. Which itself is a very pretty town, and it doesn’t seem to have much of a homeless problem, doesn’t have potholes, and has friendly people. My accent bemused the guys in the wheel repair shop in Clovis, New Mexico, I may well have been the first Irishman to ever set foot in the place when I drove in three days ago, but they checked out my wheel for me cheerfully and without cost when I swung by, whilst having a conversation. Who has been to Cheyenne, WY? It’s easy to get to, it’s on I-80. I learned to fly in Elizabethtown, Kentucky, a nice friendly quiet part of the US, and about as far in style from New York as possible. As of next week, I will no longer be living in Dublin, California, but though it’s only 35 miles from San Francisco, it is an entirely different way of life, and I though I doubt I could ever live in SF, Dublin is great. I drive transcontinental again (my 6th time doing it) week, places like Phoenix and El Paso are on my route. And even at that, those are the cities, it’s sometimes worth just pulling off into small towns off the motorway. Dinner three nights ago was in Brownwood, TX. I had never heard of the place, would never try to visit it, but it’s still a nice part of the US.

But it’s “I went to New York City and didn’t like it”. That’s fair. I hate NYC as well. But I love living in the US. Just in partof the 99% of the country which is not high density urban area.

Perhaps the greatest irony is that the least pleasant parts of the US tend to be the parts with which folks on Boards tend to be the most supportive. (High taxes, heavily Democrat, etc).

There's also extreme poverty in a lot of those areas. It's not just the big cities. Having said that, I'm from the midlands here and I would love to see a small town in the interior and stay there for a week. I don't think you get to know much about a place by travelling through it.

BTW I spent my month in west Dublin/Pleasanton. I hated that place. It's like they got the west end retail park in blanch and decided to make it 20 miles long. Sure downtown Pls or Livermore is pretty but they're just islands in a gigantic sea of concrete. It's impossible to get anywhere unless you travel by car. The rents/property prices are ridiculous and it's honestly the least cultural place I've ever been. And there's that huge disparity in incomes. People either earn a fortune or they earn a pittance.

And the Bart makes the Dart look classy.

Amirani · 09-11-2018 2:12pm

I've been to ~18 states through work or personal travel. It's a much more diverse country than many Europeans realise, and can be a very interesting place. It has a lot going for it, but also many problems.

There's certain parts that I wouldn't be against living for a short period, but I don't think I could ever consider it my long-term home. I prefer Ireland and Europe generally. I generally prefer travelling East of Ireland too, but there's room for both!

RobertKK · 09-11-2018 2:32pm

The US is what you make of it, never had a problem with the people there, always got treated well. The national parks are a treasure and well worth visiting.
I have seen poverty like one would see in Dublin despite the wealth of the city.
I see some people here knocking something they never tried.

bnt · 09-11-2018 2:34pm

I have friends just south of Houston, with three kids. The eldest will be heading to college in a couple of years. The thing about Houston is that the car rules, and everything revolves around that. Once you get outside a neighbourhood, there are literally no sidewalks on the roads, because no-one walks any more than a few houses distance. Houston has no official urban planning and (with suburbs) has sprawled to the point where it's bigger than Leinster.

Their youngest is heading for high school soon: one day I went with her brother to collect her from the school bus stop, and the driver wouldn't let anyone off the bus until she said "oh yes, I know him" - even though I was talking to her brother, whom the driver knew. I know all about "stranger danger", but that's bordering on paranoia.

The healthcare situation there is completely prohibitive for someone like me with a "pre-existing condition": I might get health insurance, but at massive cost with severe limitations.

evil_seed · 09-11-2018 3:02pm

Not long back from Alabama, Tennessee and North Carolina. Some of the most breathtaking views you'll encounter are here. I've done New York, Miami, Key West, Vegas, and they are fine for visits, but the country is where you want to go to. See the heart of the US, take in the mountains, lakes, forest parks.

Manic Moran · 09-11-2018 3:03pm

Grayson wrote: »

And the Bart makes the Dart look classy.

An unfortunate problem with California is the “oooh. Shiny” effect. We love being first with new things. BART was the first board gauge/lightweight heavy rail system in the country. We’re making the first true high speed rail system. (Which I will be very surprised if it actually gets finished). We’re one of the biggest adopters of green energy. Everything that is great about new developments, we’ll throw crap tons of money at.

However, what we are terrible at is spending money to repair and upgrade what we have got, especially roads and water infrastructure. It’s as if there were fewer votes in maintenance than in opening new things. As a result, BART has the oldest rolling stock in the country. Most of the cars date to the original opening in the 1970s. By comparison, DART opened in 1984 and has been through, what, three fleet changes? Worse, because they wanted to be “better” and went broad gauge, now that we are finally getting new rolling stock, it cannot he tested until it gets here, and it’s being built on the East Coast. And, of course, problems are being found, adding to cost and delay. That’s before you get to the signaling system and refusal to build a greatly needed second crossing point. Instead we got a new $2bn bus terminal.

Amirani · 09-11-2018 3:05pm

evil_seed wrote: »

Not long back from Alabama, Tennessee and North Carolina. Some of the most breathtaking views you'll encounter are here. I've done New York, Miami, Key West, Vegas, and they are fine for visits, but the country is where you want to go to. See the heart of the US, take in the mountains, lakes, forest parks.

Western North Carolina is incredible. Had wanted to do Blue Ridge Parkway but Hurricane Florence had some of it blocked. Ended up doing Tennessee > Asheville (and on to Georgia after) and the Appalachian scenery was still spectacular. It's so far removed from the big cities and typical resort destinations.

bnt · 09-11-2018 3:11pm

I've been to Colorado, which was stunning. Just standing outside Denver airport, I could see Denver 20 miles away as if it was some model a few feet away - then clear past it all the way to the Rockies. Photographs don't do them justice. Fort Collins was possibly the nicest place I've been to in the USA - a college town (Colorado State), not too big, plenty of green space, sidewalks and bike lanes - almost the opposite of Houston (see above). Only problem I had in Colorado: I walked a lot, and with the thin air meaning less UV protection, I got seriously sunburnt.

Grayson · 09-11-2018 3:17pm

Manic Moran wrote: »

An unfortunate problem with California is the “oooh. Shiny” effect. We love being first with new things. BART was the first board gauge/lightweight heavy rail system in the country. We’re making the first true high speed rail system. (Which I will be very surprised if it actually gets finished). We’re one of the biggest adopters of green energy. Everything that is great about new developments, we’ll throw crap tons of money at.

However, what we are terrible at is spending money to repair and upgrade what we have got, especially roads and water infrastructure. It’s as if there were fewer votes in maintenance than in opening new things. As a result, BART has the oldest rolling stock in the country. Most of the cars date to the original opening in the 1970s. By comparison, DART opened in 1984 and has been through, what, three fleet changes? Worse, because they wanted to be “better” and went broad gauge, now that we are finally getting new rolling stock, it cannot he tested until it gets here, and it’s being built on the East Coast. And, of course, problems are being found, adding to cost and delay. That’s before you get to the signaling system and refusal to build a greatly needed second crossing point. Instead we got a new $2bn bus terminal.

Lol. I was on it with a local coworker. He pointed at a sign that said no smoking and said "it doesn't say no sh1tting though".
The BART looks like something that was space aged in the 70's and hasn't been touched since.

I hardly saw any buses in Pls. There was a bus stop near stoneridge but never saw anyone getting on or off.

The whole place struck me as somewhere that needs a good urban planner. It's sprawl on a scale I've never seen. It's insane how spread out everything is. And no-one things anything about driving 20 miles.

My one regret is that I didn't get to see a national park there. As others have said the US has amazing parks. Still, they send me there every year for work so maybe next year. I have a friend in New England who lives near a huge park. I might head there for a few days of hiking.

It took me the best part of a month to get over seeing huge pickup trucks and saying "Holy Fcuk" every time. One of the guys I worked with bought a brand new one the day before I left. My head was level with the bonnet. It had a 5 liter engine and did 18 miles to the gallon.

Editing to add: If there's one thing that would make me want to live there it was the weather. It averaged 25 degrees every day. It was wonderful. There's a big part of me that wanted to stay just for that.

America is over for irish/europeans?

Comments