MUAHAAAHAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

shivermetimber · 21-06-2020 8:21pm

This makes you 22.17% Lighter than the average person.

Hmmm

21-06-2020 8:27pm

retro:electro wrote: »

I think where many people lose sight is they think that narcissism (only speaking about narcissism here) is a result of being damaged or having a traumatic childhood. That’s not always the case. It can be as a result of being over indulged or indeed having narcissistic parents. There is not always some uber traumatic root, much as we like to psycho analyse those who display these traits. It’s just from my perspective I would find it hard to find any adult who hasn’t had some kind of negative experience as a child. Maybe this just makes me a cold person but I just think once you become a rational adult, you can’t always look to someone’s past in order to explain away bad or dangerous behaviour; especially if these people have been given plenty of opportunity.

It would be very easy for most of us to wreck havoc and blame it on xyz, but we don’t because we aren’t bad people. When you go out of your way to cause harm to other people I really can’t rationalise or justify that just because you may or may not have had some trauma as a child. To me, some people are just selfish and horrible people and they really don’t care about the damage they inflict on others.

To actually see the narcissistic family dynamic unfold is the most tragic thing..

Wibbs · 21-06-2020 9:15pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Also I am sometimes curious about people who have been subjected to abusive childhoods or less than good enough parenting and are "I'm totally fine and just get on with it".
I wonder are they really? There is no part of them or their life impacted in any way? Or maybe it is how they defend against dealing with painful experiences. It is on the surface an easier path to take compared with digging down deep and truly learning about oneself.

Or maybe, they've actually grown past it and are actually fine? There doesn't always have to be some hidden darkness stuff. And let's say there is in some and for the rest of their lives they kill it and bury it and leave it there and live balanced lives? What use would there be in dragging that corpse up so they can "know themselves" better? I can't see it myself P.

Earthhorse wrote: »

Sure. But I don’t know that becoming less charitable as you’ve gotten older amounts to some fundamental shift in your personality. It might seem big to you but I’d wager any experienced psychologist wouldn’t see it as a big deal unless it was making you miserable or part of a broader set of changes in your behaviour.

Oh it doesn't seem big to me at all really E. I am what I am now, just as I was what I was in different stages of my life, but I would be quite the different person in a couple of fundamental ways now than when I was say 25. "He" would almost be a stranger to me. Not in particularly bad or good ways(they're contextual anyway), just different.

Earthhorse · 21-06-2020 9:37pm

I think that's totally normal Wibbs and I doubt any psychologist would be surprised by it.

SnowyMay · 21-06-2020 9:48pm

I’m surprised about the level of caring decreasing as time passes by.

If anything, I’d be more caring these days. If somebody falls, or had trouble getting onto an elevator, or drops some change and has trouble picking it up, I would go and help, if somebody didn’t get there before me.

When I was younger, I would be more shy, or maybe wouldn’t even notice if somebody was having difficulty. Then again, as a teenager, if I dropped some change and a cute boy was nearby, I would have almost died with embarrassment, and would have hated a fuss. It’s all about perspective.

For me, as you mature, you have so many experiences, and the nice ones are the ones to treasure. So I try to give as much as I get.

21-06-2020 9:49pm

retro:electro wrote: »

I think where many people lose sight is they think that narcissism (only speaking about narcissism here) is a result of being damaged or having a traumatic childhood. That’s not always the case. It can be as a result of being over indulged or indeed having narcissistic parents. There is not always some uber traumatic root, much as we like to psycho analyse those who display these traits. It’s just from my perspective I would find it hard to find any adult who hasn’t had some kind of negative experience as a child. Maybe this just makes me a cold person but I just think once you become a rational adult, you can’t always look to someone’s past in order to explain away bad or dangerous behaviour; especially if these people have been given plenty of opportunity.

It would be very easy for most of us to wreck havoc and blame it on xyz, but we don’t because we aren’t bad people. When you go out of your way to cause harm to other people I really can’t rationalise or justify that just because you may or may not have had some trauma as a child. To me, some people are just selfish and horrible people and they really don’t care about the damage they inflict on others.

Indeed. It's simply an attempt to understand rather than explain away. Treating others terribly should not be excused by past traumas.
Pathological narcissism is extremely complex and there isn't enough research to tell us more about its origins. My own point of view is that its roots *can* be found in early childhood ruptures.

It is important to note though that a pathology of the self means that individual will not always behave in a reasonable manner. How you and I act in the world will be different to them.

Tell me how · 21-06-2020 9:54pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Plus this whole childhood trauma thing can be an excuse for many. I've seen that a few times. Something to blame and in all but one case the trauma was either eff all or exaggerated and far less than others who went through who weren't acting up as adults. I figure there comes a point when you're an adult, so adult the hell up and stop blaming others for personal shortcomings. Identify them and change them, or keep telling counsellors how not getting a hug at Christmas when you were five is the reason you're being a dick today 20, 30, 40 years later.

I think the effort many make in seeking to understand things or to be able to recognize their origin is so as to be able to better prepared to deal with them.

That might be seen as looking for an excuse by some but in my experience, the ones using excuses are very obvious that that is what they are doing, but there are many who are dealing with issues which they simply don't understand.

Again, you might say 'adult the hell up' but I'm not sure if that is necessarily a good blanket approach to take. I mean, sure it will help in some, but will also mean others persist with difficulties.

Also, just how often is it the case where we end up in 'root cause' conversations with people outside of very close friends or family? It's not like everyone is generally going around looking to burn the ear of others with their internal angst.

Tell me how · 21-06-2020 10:01pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Or maybe, they've actually grown past it and are actually fine? There doesn't always have to be some hidden darkness stuff. And let's say there is in some and for the rest of their lives they kill it and bury it and leave it there and live balanced lives? What use would there be in dragging that corpse up so they can "know themselves" better? I can't see it myself P.

Your term of 'dragging that corpse up' might be described as 'exploring previous experiences' by others.

It depends on the motivation for doing so but if someone struggles with a particular facet of their life, say, for example, helping their kids with their homework, it might be linked to how when they were kids, their parent put undue pressure on them and belittled them when doing that same thing and so they are concerned, subconsciously or otherwise of doing the same thing.

You may say that a mature person should just recognize that they should help their child irrespective of their previous experience but their rational thought could already be influenced by their experience.

1o059k7ewrqj3n · 21-06-2020 10:06pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Stop. Sure I've been at them since 2 am.

What goes up, must come down.

Wibbs · 22-06-2020 10:15am

Earthhorse wrote: »

I think that's totally normal Wibbs and I doubt any psychologist would be surprised by it.

I never said it wasn't E and TBH what any psychologist would have to say about it would be way down in my hierarchies of caring, or interest. IMHO of course, I find social psychology dealing with the human mind as a whole is on far firmer ground, I personally find "personal" psychology to be a "soft" science in many ways that can run with whatever theory de jour, self help puffed up by vagueness, too often skewed by current philosophy and politic, all the way through hoo haa and downright quackery in some areas. I had a keen interest in the subject when I was younger and even thought about pursuing it as a career, but the more I dug the more fragile, based on supposition, trends, Hail Mary hopes and placebo(which is fine if it works) the various theories seemed to me.

Approaches like cognitive behavioural therapy make a lot of sense, are testable and repeatable and objectively work, approaches like "mindfulness", which was trending for a time, far less so. Add stuff like that to the bulging book shelves of yellowing self help book titles aimed at the chronically well, usually female, suburbanite looking for meaning surrounded by the stuff they thought would bring it, and didn't.

SnowyMay wrote: »

I’m surprised about the level of caring decreasing as time passes by.

If anything, I’d be more caring these days.

Oh I would be too in some ways S, but it's far more focused. There's more of a relevance filter applied.

When I was younger, I would be more shy, or maybe wouldn’t even notice if somebody was having difficulty.

To be fair I was never shy and was aware of how others were feeling and would actively respond to that. I didn't have to grow into myself in that sense.

Deleted User wrote: »

Pathological narcissism is extremely complex and there isn't enough research to tell us more about its origins. My own point of view is that its roots *can* be found in early childhood ruptures.

Or some people are just born broken because of genetics and childhood traumas, or the lack of them for that matter, solidify that. There is no cure for psychopathy. If the wiring isn't there, or is present but flawed, what can you do about that? TBH though just in my personal experience of dealing with a few in my time(and unlike disorders like anxiety, depression etc which are amenable to recovery) I'm not so sure personality disorders in general are particularly amenable to long term treatment, though they seem to dial down with age and of course it depends on the baseline severity in an individual.

Earthhorse · 22-06-2020 8:07pm

Fair enough, Wibbs, but you entered the thread saying you felt psychology makes too much of childhood. As evidence of this you mentioned your own personality changes during adulthood. You’re saying that these changes don’t seem big to you and when I point out that a psychologist wouldn’t either you’re saying you don’t care, which is fair, but missing the point which is that psychology doesn’t say your personality can’t change at all during adulthood just because childhood played a big role in shaping you (as in anyone).

30-06-2020 6:35pm

For anyone interested in learning more about Narcissism as a personality disorder here is what seems a very interesting online course. It's geared towards mental health professionals but anyone can buy it.

https://www.confer.uk.com/module/module-borderline.html

MUAHAAAHAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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