What do you have to earn to be rich?

Ush1 · 31-12-2019 1:49pm

beejee wrote: »

Ah, what I mean is annual interest.

Quick crappy example...

1 million quid in a bank, not touched or needed, earning 5% interest interest after dirt, giving 50k a year for essentially nothing.

That's very comfortable living, forget all this nonsense about equities and property prices that change with the wind. Rock solid money not going anywhere.

A simplistic example, but that's my measure of "being very well off".

Which savings account is that?

beejee · 31-12-2019 1:56pm

Ush1 wrote: »

Which savings account is that?

I know, I know

Simple example, that's all.

That said, if you turn up with enough dough to a prospective bank you'd be surprised about flexibility on basics like interest rates. I once saw someone negotiate, quite rapidly, from 5% to 8%, and it wasn't 7 figures or anything.

Ush1 · 31-12-2019 1:59pm

beejee wrote: »

I know, I know

Simple example, that's all.

That said, if you turn up with enough dough to a prospective bank you'd be surprised about flexibility on basics like interest rates. I once saw someone negotiate, quite rapidly, from 5% to 8%, and it wasn't 7 figures or anything.

I would be surprised and even if that's true, pretty bad return on locking up a million quid for a year.

saabsaab · 31-12-2019 2:00pm

beejee wrote: »

Ah, what I mean is annual interest.

Quick crappy example...

1 million quid in a bank, not touched or needed, earning 5% interest interest after dirt, giving 50k a year for essentially nothing.

That's very comfortable living, forget all this nonsense about equities and property prices that change with the wind. Rock solid money not going anywhere.

A simplistic example, but that's my measure of "being very well off".

No Irish bank is offering anything that high. More like 0.3%

seannash · 31-12-2019 2:09pm

beejee wrote: »

I know, I know

Simple example, that's all.

That said, if you turn up with enough dough to a prospective bank you'd be surprised about flexibility on basics like interest rates. I once saw someone negotiate, quite rapidly, from 5% to 8%, and it wasn't 7 figures or anything.

Gotta echo whats already being said. No bank is offering that. Also on substantial amounts banks are actually charging customers to keep their money with them. So your actually losing money.
Reason being its relatively easy for banks to borrow money themselves now and they aren't reliant on money from their customers nearly as much as they might have been in the past.

beejee · 31-12-2019 2:15pm

Ush1 wrote: »

I would be surprised and even if that's true, pretty bad return on locking up a million quid for a year.

To all the comments above, that negotiation was more than a few years ago, about the year 2000?maybe 90's.

Anyway, to the quoted above, I don't buy into this idea that money is wasted unless it's invested or traded. Sure, gamble a bit, no problem.

But even taking into account inflation, rock solid money is far more attractive to me in such a turbulent economy (as in, the last couple decades).

Spare money, emphasis on "spare", and then living reasonably off interest is the golden goal for me, and others too.

beejee · 31-12-2019 2:17pm

seannash wrote: »

Gotta echo whats already being said. No bank is offering that. Also on substantial amounts banks are actually charging customers to keep their money with them. So your actually losing money.
Reason being its relatively easy for banks to borrow money themselves now and they aren't reliant on money from their customers nearly as much as they might have been in the past.

I agree, to an extent, but roll up to the right place with the right amount, and it's far more attractive than money markets. Anyway, to each their own experience

anewme · 31-12-2019 2:18pm

You only need to look at the thread on Prize Bonds here, where people have massive amounts in Prize Bonds, to know theres not many options for savings or lump sums.

Ush1 · 31-12-2019 2:23pm

beejee wrote: »

To all the comments above, that negotiation was more than a few years ago, about the year 2000?maybe 90's.

Anyway, to the quoted above, I don't buy into this idea that money is wasted unless it's invested or traded. Sure, gamble a bit, no problem.

But even taking into account inflation, rock solid money is far more attractive to me in such a turbulent economy (as in, the last couple decades).

Spare money, emphasis on "spare", and then living reasonably off interest is the golden goal for me, and others too.

Not sure what you mean by "rock solid money". You mentioned inflation yourself but apart from that there's limits to Irish banks deposit guarantee.

With a million there is a number of investment funds you could buy into to and be fairly sure of a decent return.

beejee · 31-12-2019 2:34pm

Ush1 wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by "rock solid money". You mentioned inflation yourself but apart from that there's limits to Irish banks deposit guarantee.

With a million there is a number of investment funds you could buy into to and be fairly sure of a decent return.

"Fairly sure"means little in terms of finance, it's the equivalent of saying "maybe true". There are good bets, of course, but make no mistake that they are all bets at the end of the day.

As for guarantee limits and all that, it's getting down to minutiae, and I'm only posting a general idea on a message board. It can all be done, if done right, inflation can be beaten too in very simple ways without betting.

Bear in mind this isn't the average amount of money in a regular savings account, it's large scale. My point being that "large" may not be as large as first thought. Anyway, that's all there is to say at this level

Ush1 · 31-12-2019 2:39pm

beejee wrote: »

"Fairly sure"means little in terms of finance, it's the equivalent of saying "maybe true". There are good bets, of course, but make no mistake that they are all bets at the end of the day.

As for guarantee limits and all that, it's getting down to minutiae, and I'm only posting a general idea on a message board. It can all be done, if done right, inflation can be beaten too in very simple ways without betting.

Bear in mind this isn't the average amount of money in a regular savings account, it's large scale. My point being that "large" may not be as large as first thought. Anyway, that's all there is to say at this level

It means about as much as "rock solid money". Deposit guarantee limits aren't minor details, I don't think you've thought this through.

seannash · 31-12-2019 2:48pm

beejee wrote: »

I agree, to an extent, but roll up to the right place with the right amount, and it's far more attractive than money markets. Anyway, to each their own experience

Im gonna say it again its not true. Why would a bank pay you 5% for yoir 1 million when they can borrow 1 million easily for a fraction of that interest rate.
I don't care where you rock up to, its not happening

beejee · 31-12-2019 2:48pm

Ush1 wrote: »

It means about as much as "rock solid money". Deposit guarantee limits aren't minor details, I don't think you've thought this through.

No, I don't agree.

To bring it down to micro scale, a 50 euro note in my wallet is relatively "rock solid" versus the 50 quid someone owes you.

Besides that, yes, guarantee limits are minutiae in terms of messages on an Internet forum.

And no, I have thought it through, long, long before posting a general message on an Internet forum all of 20 minutes ago.

I'm more than happy with my own personal finances and how I conduct.

If you want details, hire a financial advisor.

beejee · 31-12-2019 2:53pm

seannash wrote: »

Im gonna say it again its not true. Why would a bank pay you 5% for yoir 1 million when they can borrow 1 million easily for a fraction of that interest rate.
I don't care where you rock up to, its not happening

Look, it's as simple as this. I am going off lived experience with specific examples of which I alluded to one single event.

Think about your accusation for a nano second: is it likely that some randomer decided to lie anonymously on the Internet about something so ludicrously specific and trite, or is it more likely that you can't believe something (admittedly vague) because you haven't experienced it yourself?

You believe whatever you like, I know what I know.

Annnnnnd.. Making enough interest to equal the average industrial wage or thereabouts is my personal idea of being very well off. That's as complicated as it gets.

Ush1 · 31-12-2019 2:55pm

beejee wrote: »

No, I don't agree.

To bring it down to micro scale, a 50 euro note in my wallet is relatively "rock solid" versus the 50 quid someone owes you.

Besides that, yes, guarantee limits are minutiae in terms of messages on an Internet forum.

And no, I have thought it through, long, long before posting a general message on an Internet forum all of 20 minutes ago.

I'm more than happy with my own personal finances and how I conduct.

If you want details, hire a financial advisor.

Details of what, you're coming out with off the wall stuff.

I'd be surprised if you ever have access to a million euro, but should you ever, best of luck.

Ush1 · 31-12-2019 2:56pm

beejee wrote: »

Look, it's as simple as this. I am going off lived experience with specific examples of which I alluded to one single event.

Think about your accusation for a nano second: is it likely that some randomer decided to lie anonymously on the Internet about something so ludicrously specific and trite, or is it more likely that you can't believe something (admittedly vague) because you haven't experienced it yourself?

You believe whatever you like, I know what I know.

Annnnnnd.. Making enough interest to equal the average industrial wage or thereabouts is my personal idea of being very well off. That's as complicated as it gets.

:pac:

beejee · 31-12-2019 3:00pm

Ush1 wrote: »

:pac:

The point being, if you're intent on talking bullshoite, you go big.

The likes of "I'm a multi millionaire!" versus "you can negotiate interest rates in specific circumstances"

I mean, you'd need to have some lacking imagination for something of the sort

machaseh · 31-12-2019 3:04pm

Rich. Why rich? Why do you need to be rich? To me, 'rich' is having MORE than most people you see around you. Why do you need MORE? More more more more. This is what has turned our world to sh*t. Instead you should be focused on: what do you NEED?

What I consider necessary for a comfortable lifestyle for myself as a single person (no relationship, no kids, no pets) would be the following:

- permanent position in job (got it)
- my own small studio or 1 bed apartment for max 1/3rd of my wage (can't afford it, have to share mine with someone else)
- access to proper public transportation (got it as I live in town) + means to afford the occasional taxi (got it, although it gets too expensive very fast) OR access to a small car (dont need one and due to disability I cant drive anyway)

That is literally all I need. Sadly, in Dublin I am unable to afford this. I have to live in a shared apartment, despite having a pretty good job which earns close to the Median wage here in ireland. Why am I unable to afford me own gaff despite having a good job?

The answer is because the capitalist system has failed us. There is not enough (read zero) incentive for commercial developers to build new affordable housing; only luxury housing is deemed profitable enough. There is also not enough incentive for the government to build Social Housing because the legislation forcing them to do that is lacking. Clearly something in our system needs to change in order to solve the housing crisis, but with all the TDs being landlords I don't see it happening.

Mike9832 · 31-12-2019 3:18pm

Pooinloo wrote: »

Not talking about legacy wealth, but what income brackets correspond to being rich/poor in Dublin? I'd say by household it's something like this:

Dole - 30k: Poor
30k - 55k: Sort of poor
55k-75k: lower middle
75k-90k: middle of the pack
90k-115k: upper middle
115k-170k: fairly well off
170k+: rich

Income means very little

All about assets/savings that you could cash out

1k -20k - poor, week to week living

20k -50k - pretty poor, can't do much, maybe nice car or holiday for cash, deposit for house etc

50k- 150k - middle, good rainy day fund, cash to help kids college, nice car etc if you want, some small investment possible

150k-600k - middle upper, doing well, can invest in property, losing job not a disaster plenty of savings/assets

600k-1m - Well off, loads of savings/assets

1m+ - Rich

seannash · 31-12-2019 3:19pm

beejee wrote: »

The point being, if you're intent on talking bullshoite, you go big.

The likes of "I'm a multi millionaire!" versus "you can negotiate interest rates in specific circumstances"

I mean, you'd need to have some lacking imagination for something of the sort

Its the interest rates your quoting thats unbelievable. Google banks charging millionaires for deposits and youll get a number of results that will show you im right. And even if you find a bank which doesnt nobody will negotiate up to 5%.
The days of people winning the lotto and living off the interest are long over.
Why would anyone risk money on stocks when they can just have the bank give them money at zero risk
You should let Warren Buffet in on your money making idea

Mike9832 · 31-12-2019 3:30pm

seannash wrote: »

Its the interest rates your quoting thats unbelievable. Google banks charging millionaires for deposits and youll get a number of results that will show you im right. And even if you find a bank which doesnt nobody will negotiate up to 5%.
The days of people winning the lotto and living off the interest are long over.
Why would anyone risk money on stocks when they can just have the bank give them money at zero risk
You should let Warren Buffet in on your money making idea

You have to diversify

A mixute of property, stocks, cash savings, online businesses etc

That's what I would do anyway if I won the lotto

beejee · 31-12-2019 3:32pm

seannash wrote: »

Its the interest rates your quoting thats unbelievable. Google banks charging millionaires for deposits and youll get a number of results that will show you im right. And even if you find a bank which doesnt nobody will negotiate up to 5%.
The days of people winning the lotto and living off the interest are long over.
Why would anyone risk money on stocks when they can just have the bank give them money at zero risk
You should let Warren Buffet in on your money making idea

A few times, I already stated that the 5% to 8% was quite a while back. The principle still stands.

More generally speaking, I copped on a long time ago that any idea/method/strategy that is widely available on the Internet, then it's already sown up. It's the lamentable "sheeple" thing, if everyone is doing it, it's not worth doing. And that goes beyond finances, it applies to most everything.

It's akin to buffets oft-quoted "be fearful when others are optimistic, be optimistic when others are feaeful", or however it goes.

Hence the incredulity at my simple statement on interest rates. "I couldn't find such a thing on the Internet (or life experience), along with everyone else on planet earth, so I don't believe it's possible"

Again generally, it's like people selling" schemes" and plans on how to make money. The simple question is always "why?" why would you sell an idea on how to make money when you could be just doing it yourself?

Common knowledge is common, beaten to death and dried up as a resource for innovation and "getting ahead".

What else can be said?

machaseh · 31-12-2019 3:36pm

Mike9832 wrote: »

Income means very little

All about assets/savings that you could cash out

1k -20k - poor, week to week living

20k -50k - pretty poor, can't do much, maybe nice car or holiday for cash, deposit for house etc

50k- 150k - middle, good rainy day fund, cash to help kids college, nice car etc if you want, some small investment possible

150k-600k - middle upper, doing well, can invest in property, losing job not a disaster plenty of savings/assets

600k-1m - Well off, loads of savings/assets

1m+ - Rich

You mean the amount of savings that you have? Is that minus debt?

Because in that case I am going to stay poor for the rest of my life, as I have almost 20k in student debt.

Mike9832 · 31-12-2019 3:47pm

machaseh wrote: »

You mean the amount of savings that you have? Is that minus debt?

Because in that case I am going to stay poor for the rest of my life, as I have almost 20k in student debt.

Yes minus debt

Yes you might be poor for a while unfortunately until that's paid off

Most are until they are 60 when mortgage is paid off and they finally have an asset, but then they are too old to physically work, need to think about not physically working when your young

maccored · 31-12-2019 3:51pm

Pooinloo wrote: »

That's basically what the thread is asking you to do

not really. the threads about money

2lazytogetup · 31-12-2019 3:56pm

for me to consider someone rich -

1. they dont think twice about buying a brand new car.
2. dont check the prices on the menu in a restaurant. they may moan about a bill of 200euros to themselves
3. designer clothes, would never shop in dunnes or penneys
4. at least 3 foreign holidays a year. pick their holidays based on dates that are convenient, not on prices. wouldnt fly ryanair
5. their adult teenagers have cars
6. adult teenagers's college and living expenses are not a worry.
7. could afford a house cleaner, but might not want the hassle of it
8. shop in avoca or equivalent regularly enough.
9. good health insurance, AA membership for their car
10. they have a holiday home or a second home that they rent out.
11. they dont bother comparing the prices of goods as they are money rich, but time poor. Ie just go up to harvey norman/ powercity to see what tvs they have, wouldnt go to both.
12. gym membership, tennis club, golf club memberships
13. kids in private secondary school.

id say a family would need to make at least 100k after tax (140k before tax) a year to be rich. even if they have a massive mortgage on a south dublin house, they are still rich, they are just plugging their money into their house.

so would need to be a director, or an IT specialist. So a teacher/garda/nurse would never be considered rich unless they inherit or win the lotto.

Pooinloo · 31-12-2019 3:57pm

maccored wrote: »

not really. the threads about money

The thread asks what level of income makes someone rich. Learn to read good.

Ginger83 · 31-12-2019 4:33pm

2lazytogetup wrote: »

for me to consider someone rich -

1. they dont think twice about buying a brand new car.
2. dont check the prices on the menu in a restaurant. they may moan about a bill of 200euros to themselves
3. designer clothes, would never shop in dunnes or penneys
4. at least 3 foreign holidays a year. pick their holidays based on dates that are convenient, not on prices. wouldnt fly ryanair
5. their adult teenagers have cars
6. adult teenagers's college and living expenses are not a worry.
7. could afford a house cleaner, but might not want the hassle of it
8. shop in avoca or equivalent regularly enough.
9. good health insurance, AA membership for their car
10. they have a holiday home or a second home that they rent out.
11. they dont bother comparing the prices of goods as they are money rich, but time poor. Ie just go up to harvey norman/ powercity to see what tvs they have, wouldnt go to both.
12. gym membership, tennis club, golf club memberships
13. kids in private secondary school.

id say a family would need to make at least 100k after tax (140k before tax) a year to be rich. even if they have a massive mortgage on a south dublin house, they are still rich, they are just plugging their money into their house.

so would need to be a director, or an IT specialist. So a teacher/garda/nurse would never be considered rich unless they inherit or win the lotto.

A cleaner once a week is 40-50 quid

Mike9832 · 31-12-2019 4:38pm

2lazytogetup wrote: »

for me to consider someone rich -

1. they dont think twice about buying a brand new car.
2. dont check the prices on the menu in a restaurant. they may moan about a bill of 200euros to themselves
3. designer clothes, would never shop in dunnes or penneys
4. at least 3 foreign holidays a year. pick their holidays based on dates that are convenient, not on prices. wouldnt fly ryanair
5. their adult teenagers have cars
6. adult teenagers's college and living expenses are not a worry.
7. could afford a house cleaner, but might not want the hassle of it
8. shop in avoca or equivalent regularly enough.
9. good health insurance, AA membership for their car
10. they have a holiday home or a second home that they rent out.
11. they dont bother comparing the prices of goods as they are money rich, but time poor. Ie just go up to harvey norman/ powercity to see what tvs they have, wouldnt go to both.
12. gym membership, tennis club, golf club memberships
13. kids in private secondary school.

id say a family would need to make at least 100k after tax (140k before tax) a year to be rich. even if they have a massive mortgage on a south dublin house, they are still rich, they are just plugging their money into their house.

so would need to be a director, or an IT specialist. So a teacher/garda/nurse would never be considered rich unless they inherit or win the lotto.

That lifesytle would require way more than 100k after tax, more like 300k

Spook_ie · 01-01-2020 12:43am

Stheno wrote: »

Which is why cash should be outlawed for taxi fares

And what about the people who prefer to pay cash, like the elderly and pensioners, you'd like them to not go out I suppose?

riclad · 01-01-2020 5:26pm

Taxi meters are sealed ,they can be checked by the taxi office .
They are checked every year ,and can be checked anytime the taxi is parked in a rank by an official .Many older people or people on lower incomes do not have a credit card .
If you have money invest it in a range of investments,
property,stocks ,etc the rich can afford to pay financial advisers .

iamtony · 02-01-2020 1:34am

Spook_ie wrote: »

And what about the people who prefer to pay cash, like the elderly and pensioners, you'd like them to not go out I suppose?

Spookie, as much as I like to get cash, it's on the way out forget about it move with the times pal. Obviously what that chap said about banning cash would never happen and I dont know why you would even entertain him with a response.

iamtony · 02-01-2020 1:37am

riclad wrote: »

Taxi meters are sealed ,they can be checked by the taxi office .
They are checked every year ,and can be checked anytime the taxi is parked in a rank by an official .Many older people or people on lower incomes do not have a credit card .
If you have money invest it in a range of investments,
property,stocks ,etc the rich can afford to pay financial advisers .

90% of the cash customers left are only cash customers because they get the social welfare in cash, which is only supporting the post offices, it wont be too long before that cash work is gone and then it will only be the odd German tourist who still pays with cash.

ILoveYourVibes · 02-01-2020 1:37am

3 million a year gross income. That gives you 1 450 189 € net pay per anum. That is my goal. I can dream!

anewme · 02-01-2020 1:41am

Back to work tomorrow for those of us not rich enough to abstain.

ILoveYourVibes · 02-01-2020 1:53am

anewme wrote: »

Back to work tomorrow for those of us not rich enough to abstain.

Most rich people work ....and go to bed much earlier than most of us poor folk.

There ain't no one rich on here.

YET!

2lazytogetup · 02-01-2020 10:55am

Ginger83 wrote: »

A cleaner once a week is 40-50 quid

haha, you are obviously not in the 1%. A professional, well trusted cleaner that comes every weekday morning (and available weekends) about 10am when everyone is out of the house and cleans for 3hours per day is going to cost alot more than 40-50 quid a week!!!

2lazytogetup · 02-01-2020 10:57am

Mike9832 wrote: »

That lifesytle would require way more than 100k after tax, more like 300k

if all the expenses i listed were paid every year, perhaps. but they dont all happen at the same time.

But a new car wouldnt be bought every year. if the kids are in secondary school, they are not living away at college.

the-island-man · 16-03-2021 10:38am

I know the original question was about what you have to earn to be rich but I think another factor that wasn't raised is the kind of job you'd have to put up with to earn the higher amounts and the higher tax bracket that would be applied to all PAYE salaries over 35-44k depending on your circumstances.

If the job is highly paid (100k and up) and very stressful and takes up a lot of your time it may be worth considering for a couple of years but you are likely to burn out in the long run.

Considering the higher tax bracket, It's a very different prospect if the difference in salary between two jobs is 15-20k and one is extremely physically and emotionally taxing. The stressful and time consuming job could prevent you from getting involved in extra business ventures or hobbies that may lead to something more financially and personally satisfying.

saabsaab · 16-03-2021 7:57pm

To be Rich would mean that you have well in excess of all commitments re family costs etc. etc. and replacement of any modern devices that may break or wear out. Probably nobody on PAYE. I'd say somewhere in excess of 500k p.a. at least to be rich. It is relative to an extent and some may find that too little depending on where they life and their lifestyle.

16-03-2021 11:18pm

the-island-man wrote: »

I know the original question was about what you have to earn to be rich but I think another factor that wasn't raised is the kind of job you'd have to put up with to earn the higher amounts and the higher tax bracket that would be applied to all PAYE salaries over 35-44k depending on your circumstances.

If the job is highly paid (100k and up) and very stressful and takes up a lot of your time it may be worth considering for a couple of years but you are likely to burn out in the long run.

Considering the higher tax bracket, It's a very different prospect if the difference in salary between two jobs is 15-20k and one is extremely physically and emotionally taxing. The stressful and time consuming job could prevent you from getting involved in extra business ventures or hobbies that may lead to something more financially and personally satisfying.

I very much agree with this. I work 18hrs a week on average, sometimes its less but it's never more. There is no way I could do my job full time. Even 10 extra hours would be too much for me. So I don't make the money I could and that suits me down to the ground.

What do you have to earn to be rich?

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