Eamon Ryan hoping to stop cheap flights to sunny destinations

Eric Cartman · 11-04-2021 8:28pm

Pussyhands wrote: »

If taxes save the planet why don't we just have a voluntary tax where all the treehuggers can pay all their surplus income in tax? Sound good?

No, It only works if we bully middle class and wealthy people into paying for it, otherwise lord greta will reject the sacrifice and doom Ireland to eventually return to the ocean in like 300 years , but she'll keep telling everyone its happening in 10 years every 10 years so you have to listen to her drone on so much you'll want it to just end.

SeanW · 11-04-2021 8:41pm

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Bravo France

Chapeau

We need this in Ireland also - see my tweet earlier on this

Given that any supposed carbon savings from this move are likely to be offset by avoidable increases planned elsewhere, I don't see why this move deserves congratulations.

Recent French policy has been to plan for a reduction in reliance on nuclear energy, with common calls for a maximum of 50%, down from 70-75% today.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_power_in_France
The end result of that will be (as Germany and Ireland shows) more carbon emissions, all of which would be needless. Of course, if you're going to ramp up carbon output dramatically for no reason, you have to find savings elsewhere to compensate. Assuming the reductions planned go ahead, that will likely be the effect - at best - of the French short haul flight ban. A mere compensatory measure for other bad policies.

lawrencesummers · 11-04-2021 8:43pm

Another nail in the coffin of the green party’s future government prospects.

Thelonious Monk · 11-04-2021 8:50pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Another nail in the coffin of the green party’s future government prospects.

The EU Council of Transport Ministers are looking at stopping cheap flights, so when Eamon goes you'll have to bank on some kind of Irexit to stop this from happening.

Eric Cartman · 11-04-2021 9:33pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The EU Council of Transport Ministers are looking at stopping cheap flights, so when Eamon goes you'll have to bank on some kind of Irexit to stop this from happening.

Whats their definition of cheap ? surely like minimum unit pricing this will basically just impact the poor.

Thelonious Monk · 11-04-2021 9:35pm

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Whats their definition of cheap ? surely like minimum unit pricing this will basically just impact the poor.

You f*cking hate the poor you should be happy!

harrylittle · 11-04-2021 9:39pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

As should people eating meat be paying for the environmental damage it's production results in, much worse than air travel.

how is eating meat worse than air travel for environmental damage ?

Eric Cartman · 11-04-2021 9:39pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

You f*cking hate the poor you should be happy!

No I don't , I despise able bodied people who live off the state or are net detractors from the economy, there are many poor people the world over who work their arse off to provide for themselves and their families with no government assistance for which I highly respect them.

I believe in free markets , minimum unit prices or creating a floor on flight prices is unfair and definitely targets the poor for no good reason.

lawrencesummers · 11-04-2021 9:45pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The EU Council of Transport Ministers are looking at stopping cheap flights, so when Eamon goes you'll have to bank on some kind of Irexit to stop this from happening.

Sure.

Politicians are extremely inept.

This won’t happen in my lifetime.

RandomViewer · 11-04-2021 10:45pm

harrylittle wrote: »

how is eating meat worse than air travel for environmental damage ?

I think the anti-meat zealots don't grasp the amount of land required to grow the extra crops to replace livestock,

Thelonious Monk · 11-04-2021 10:46pm

RandomViewer wrote: »

I think the anti-meat zealots don't grasp the amount of land required to grow the extra crops to replace livestock,

You do realise you have to grow crops for animals too?

Ronaldinho · 11-04-2021 10:52pm

RandomViewer wrote: »

I think the anti-meat zealots don't grasp the amount of land required to grow the extra crops to replace livestock,

Nah - I expect we'll all be growing our own meat at home eventually. In petri dishes or whatever. The science is already there and the groundwork is being laid to pave the way for it being seen as the 'right' thing / normalize it.

Sure even with plants the future seems to be vertical farming and hydroponics.

I'm not saying for 1 second I like / agree with any of this but there's huge influence and money behind this trend. It's nigh on inevitable on a multi-decade time horizon.

RandomViewer · 11-04-2021 10:57pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

You do realise you have to grow crops for animals too?

Grazing and tillage are different, you can rear sheep where you can't grow crops, whatever is left of the rainforest will be gone to grow soya

RandomViewer · 11-04-2021 10:59pm

Ronaldinho wrote: »

Nah - I expect we'll all be growing our own meat at home eventually. In petri dishes or whatever. The science is already there and the groundwork is being laid to pave the way for it being seen as the 'right' thing / normalize it.

Sure even with plants the future seems to be vertical farming and hydroponics.

I'm not saying for 1 second I like / agree with any of this but there's huge influence and money behind this trend. It's nigh on inevitable on a multi-decade time horizon.

More dystopia than utopia by the look of it

Thelonious Monk · 11-04-2021 11:04pm

RandomViewer wrote: »

Grazing and tillage are different, you can rear sheep where you can't grow crops, whatever is left of the rainforest will be gone to grow soya

most soy is grown for animals

Infini · 11-04-2021 11:11pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

The EU Council of Transport Ministers are looking at stopping cheap flights, so when Eamon goes you'll have to bank on some kind of Irexit to stop this from happening.

Only looked at it but I think the actual idea is to remove flights between areas that are less than 2 hours away from one another when alternative mode of transport are available like rail that produce less pollution. It wouldnt affect us as much because in fairness were an island and a ferry link to the continent direct takes the best part of a day. To get to any part of Europe in a few hours requires us to to fly theres no way around this.

Eric Cartman · 12-04-2021 8:45am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

most soy is grown for animals

Its the problem with looking at things in a globalised perspective , whats happening in south american rain forests to support a distorted US beef industry and its CFO (concentrated feeding op) method is bad. But thats not a reason to beat Irelands more sustainable beef industry with a stick

Bass Reeves · 12-04-2021 8:59am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

most soy is grown for animals

Not totally correct the drive to produce bio diesel is one of the main reasons for the jump in production of soya

Fandymo · 12-04-2021 9:16am

Tell me how wrote: »

They are the only party listening to the scientists in terms of humankind's impact on our environment.

What's madcap about that?

These are the scientists who have been consistently wrong about global warming, climate change etc??

As Thomas Sowell has said “Would you bet your paycheck on a weather forecast for tomorrow? If not, then why should this country bet billions on global warming predictions that have even less foundation?”

12-04-2021 10:19am

REMINDER
Carbon Tax increases on 1st May.
Order your solid fuel or fill of heating oil now if it is running low.

https://www.moneyguideireland.com/carbon-tax-how-much-will-it-cost-you.html

Thelonious Monk · 12-04-2021 10:23am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Its the problem with looking at things in a globalised perspective , whats happening in south american rain forests to support a distorted US beef industry and its CFO (concentrated feeding op) method is bad. But thats not a reason to beat Irelands more sustainable beef industry with a stick

Ireland imports millions of tonnes of animal feed from South America and around the world every year

Thelonious Monk · 12-04-2021 10:31am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Not totally correct the drive to produce bio diesel is one of the main reasons for the jump in production of soya

That's just something farmers on boards.ie say. The US Dept of Ag, the UN, their websites say it is primarily grown for animals. I'll believe them over farmers with vested interests. This comes up time and time again on boards.

12-04-2021 10:34am

2.5% of German agricultural land is used to produce the bio-fuel component of E10 petrol. Adoption of EVs will reduce that amount of land being used and if that land either goes fallow or displaces imports of foodstuffs that will be good for the environment.

Banana Republic 1 · 12-04-2021 11:05am

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Its the problem with looking at things in a globalised perspective , whats happening in south american rain forests to support a distorted US beef industry and its CFO (concentrated feeding op) method is bad. But thats not a reason to beat Irelands more sustainable beef industry with a stick

Meal is imported to Ireland too.

Banana Republic 1 · 12-04-2021 11:07am

Fandymo wrote: »

These are the scientists who have been consistently wrong about global warming, climate change etc??

As Thomas Sowell has said “Would you bet your paycheck on a weather forecast for tomorrow? If not, then why should this country bet billions on global warming predictions that have even less foundation?”

Weather is not climate.

RandomViewer · 12-04-2021 11:28am

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

most soy is grown for animals

Can be both as well you know,

blackwhite · 12-04-2021 11:40am

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

We should encourage tourists to visit Ireland using solar powered ferries. These are the coming transport solution and will be a green power horse mode of transport in the future. Google them.

Dirty fossil fuel airlines are the past. Have no problem with aviation IF it is carbon neutral

There's no solar technology that produces sufficient power outputs for open-sea ferries, or for vessels large enough to carry freight or any even any meaningful volume of cars.

There currently isn't even viable solutions to have solar to run the electrical needs to a modern sea-going ferry, never mind enough solar output to provide propulsion.

12-04-2021 11:47am

blackwhite wrote: »

There's no solar technology that produces sufficient power outputs for open-sea ferries, or for vessels large enough to carry freight or any even any meaningful volume of cars.

There currently isn't even viable solutions to have solar to run the electrical needs to a modern sea-going ferry, never mind enough solar output to provide propulsion.

...and most of the ferries depart Dublin, Liverpool and Holyhead overnight not because that is just the way it is but because people want to catch a few hours sleep on the trip.

Bass Reeves · 12-04-2021 12:09pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

That's just something farmers on boards.ie say. The US Dept of Ag, the UN, their websites say it is primarily grown for animals. I'll believe them over farmers with vested interests. This comes up time and time again on boards.

Incorrect again. Soyabean is mainly grown for the it produces. The residue levy over is a high protein meal. It's about 48% protein. This is totally unsuitable to feed to cattle as is. It usually makes up about 10-20% of s cattle ration as higher rates cannot be fed. Mostly it is used with maize a low protein carbohydrate rich feed. Pig and chicken ration can use higher volumes as they are omivoires.

The oil is what decided the amount of soya grown the meal residue is used as an animal feedstuff but not the primary reason it is grown.

The demand for it use in bio diesel has driven up its production

ek motor · 12-04-2021 12:11pm

Voting for the Greens will guarantee more expense in your life.

Thelonious Monk · 12-04-2021 12:40pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Incorrect again. Soyabean is mainly grown for the it produces. The residue levy over is a high protein meal. It's about 48% protein. This is totally unsuitable to feed to cattle as is. It usually makes up about 10-20% of s cattle ration as higher rates cannot be fed. Mostly it is used with maize a low protein carbohydrate rich feed. Pig and chicken ration can use higher volumes as they are omivoires.

The oil is what decided the amount of soya grown the meal residue is used as an animal feedstuff but not the primary reason it is grown.

The demand for it use in bio diesel has driven up its production

Farmers say it's primarily grown for humans. Every other interested organisation on the planet say it's primarily grown for animal feed.

Dyr · 12-04-2021 12:50pm

Ah yes the Greens, the party who really, really hate the plebs.

Dyr · 12-04-2021 12:52pm

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Weather is not climate.

And climate change predictions have a funny habit of turning out to be wrong

https://extinctionclock.org/

Fandymo · 12-04-2021 12:57pm

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Weather is not climate.

Thats why I made the point of separating them.

We're meant to be underwater since the 70s. Their predictions for global warming (Ireland would become one of the new, new world wine producers) and climate change (most predictions are absolute nonsense).

A stopped clock is right twice a day, have any of their madcap doomsday predictions become reality??

BanditLuke · 12-04-2021 1:01pm

ek motor wrote: »

Voting for the Greens will guarantee more expense in your life.

And a less enjoyable one but hey at least we can all learn how to place lettuce boxes on our windowsills.

Bass Reeves · 12-04-2021 1:25pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Farmers say it's primarily grown for humans. Every other interested organisation on the planet say it's primarily grown for animal feed.

It is for the demand for it oil that soya is produced. The demand for it oil in bio diesel has increased it production by 20% in the last ten years. It's the same with Sugar cane and maize used in glyconol production.

Both of these actual drive rainforests deforestation. The land is first cleared by burning. Cattle are then used to clear the regrowth of smaller bushes so as that it can be tilled for soya, sugar cane and maize production. After 10years the land starts returning to a desert and the cycle continues. This is why even though vast area's of rainforests are cleared each year we do not see a rise in the production of these crops.

It interesting as soya, maize and sugarcane are not the most efficient bio fuels. Grain is actually much more efficient. It can be burned directly in many burner types. It could actually replace all other fuels as a feedstuff for boilers. It would work similar to a woodpellet stove. The other reason that grain boiler are not officially allowed is the effect it would have on grain prices. It would double grIn prices. A ton of grain has an equivalent oil value of over 700 litres of heating oil. At present heating oil is 60c/L which would vale a ton of grain at over 420 euro. At 70c/L grain would be 500/ ton. At present farmers recieve sub 200/ ton

And instead of the smell of wood, coal or oil you have the smell of freshly baked bread around the place

Red Silurian · 12-04-2021 2:18pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

hydrogen id say, it ll be a while though

For planes, probably... Everything else will go electric though, all it needs is time

Banana Republic 1 · 12-04-2021 2:58pm

blackwhite wrote: »

There's no solar technology that produces sufficient power outputs for open-sea ferries, or for vessels large enough to carry freight or any even any meaningful volume of cars.

There currently isn't even viable solutions to have solar to run the electrical needs to a modern sea-going ferry, never mind enough solar output to provide propulsion.

There is! Use electricity in the production of hydrogen, in fact that’s the end plan for the moneypoint revamp.

Banana Republic 1 · 12-04-2021 2:59pm

RandomViewer wrote: »

I think the anti-meat zealots don't grasp the amount of land required to grow the extra crops to replace livestock,

Stupid comment.

RandomViewer · 12-04-2021 3:03pm

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Stupid comment.

I'll take that as a compliment

blackwhite · 12-04-2021 3:08pm

Deleted User wrote: »

...and most of the ferries depart Dublin, Liverpool and Holyhead overnight not because that is just the way it is but because people want to catch a few hours sleep on the trip.

Freight demand dictates their timetables. All down to having produce arriving at the times the customers want.

12-04-2021 3:11pm

blackwhite wrote: »

Freight demand dictates their timetables. All down to having produce arriving at the times the customers want.

You mean in the morning when people are awake.

mikhail · 12-04-2021 3:17pm

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

There is! Use electricity in the production of hydrogen, in fact that’s the end plan for the moneypoint revamp.

Ammonia is being investigated too. Like hydrogen, it can be made using solar power and burns clean. Unlike hydrogen, you don't have to store it under pressure.

blackwhite · 12-04-2021 3:23pm

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

There is! Use electricity in the production of hydrogen, in fact that’s the end plan for the moneypoint revamp.

That's not a solar-powered ferry though - which is what was being proposed.

LNG or Hydrogen power will be the most likely alternative for shipping in the forseeable future.

Any solar power solutions for commercial shipping are going to be for supplementary power which will certainly reduce the consumption of whatever the primary fuel is, but it's still a long time before we will see any fully solar-powered ferries or cargo vessels

blackwhite · 12-04-2021 3:38pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You mean in the morning when people are awake.

Nothing to do with that really. The demand is driven by the time that warehousing and/or shops are opening each day. Busiest time in Dublin Port for arrivals is 5.30-6.30 each morning, so any incomming perishables are arriving at shops in time for the morning opening time.

Absolutely nothing to do without your claims that timetables are dictated "because people want to catch a few hours sleep on the trip"

Bass Reeves · 12-04-2021 4:14pm

blackwhite wrote: »

Nothing to do with that really. The demand is driven by the time that warehousing and/or shops are opening each day. Busiest time in Dublin Port for arrivals is 5.30-6.30 each morning, so any incomming perishables are arriving at shops in time for the morning opening time.

Absolutely nothing to do without your claims that timetables are dictated "because people want to catch a few hours sleep on the trip"

Haulier will target ferry times to coincide with driver's test times. It one of the reasons that the ferries to France are becoming popular. As drivers have a 24 hour rest period it resets the click and they can work 5 days continuously without a 24 hour rest period. They still have to observe daily rest periods after 8 hours driving which equates to a 11-12 hour shift.

Rest periods are critical to truck drivers so hauliers will target ferry journeys around rest periods. That why when you a
Go into a ferry terminal you will see trucks parked up to complete a rest period after or before a ferry journey.

Previous to Brexit ferries from Ireland to the UK were synchronised to the ferries in Dover. A driver could take a ferry journey from Ireland to a UK port, complete a ferry journey and drive to Dover to catch a ferry to Calais. The reverse was true on the way back

gozunda · 12-04-2021 4:24pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

most soy is grown for animals

Oh no its not. Not like that discussion hasn't been trashed many times already.

Anyway afIk this thread is about "Eamon Ryan hoping to stop cheap flights to sunny destinations"

Not another endless farming bashing opportunity ..

And no farming not perfect but a small number living in glass houses shouldn't throw stones and etc

12-04-2021 4:31pm

blackwhite wrote: »

Nothing to do with that really. The demand is driven by the time that warehousing and/or shops are opening each day. Busiest time in Dublin Port for arrivals is 5.30-6.30 each morning, so any incomming perishables are arriving at shops in time for the morning opening time.

Absolutely nothing to do without your claims that timetables are dictated "because people want to catch a few hours sleep on the trip"

If your claims with regard to "perishables" were the only reason for selection of saiing times then seeing that the the economics of operating ferries are highly dependent upon Freight traffic there would be NO daytime services whatsoever but there are.
Some Ferry companies are operating services direct to the Continent which are unsuitable for perishable product too. There is freight beyond "perishables" and highly "perishable" and rapidly depreciating product is getting imported by air too.
Why do you wish to deny that Truckers needing to satisfy their legal requirement to take a number of hours of rest at a time which aligns with their circadian rythmn would not have an input on ferry sailings timetables.
I'm reasonable enough to admit that transport of perishables has "some" influence on time of sailings.

blackwhite · 12-04-2021 4:37pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Haulier will target ferry times to coincide with driver's test times. It one of the reasons that the ferries to France are becoming popular. As drivers have a 24 hour rest period it resets the click and they can work 5 days continuously without a 24 hour rest period. They still have to observe daily rest periods after 8 hours driving which equates to a 11-12 hour shift.

Rest periods are critical to truck drivers so hauliers will target ferry journeys around rest periods. That why when you a
Go into a ferry terminal you will see trucks parked up to complete a rest period after or before a ferry journey.

Previous to Brexit ferries from Ireland to the UK were synchronised to the ferries in Dover. A driver could take a ferry journey from Ireland to a UK port, complete a ferry journey and drive to Dover to catch a ferry to Calais. The reverse was true on the way back

The schedules haven't changed due to Brexit - the ferries are still running at the same times.
DFDS and P&O reduced the frequency of some services on Dover-Calais due to COVID last summer and haven't restored all of those services yet.

The landbridge has been impacted because of 1) the complexity of having to deal with 2-3 customs regimes if looking to make a full landbridge journey and 2) the uncertainty of getting through Dover without disruption - which is a combination of Covid restrictions as well as Brexit issues.

As for the 24 hour rest period - I think Rosslare-Dunkirk is currently the only service which gives the 24 hours - the rest are all shorter crossing times than that.

Thelonious Monk · 12-04-2021 4:41pm

There's also a ferry from Rosslare to Bilbao, once you're in Bilbao you could take the train anywhere. I'd love to do this route sometime.

Eamon Ryan hoping to stop cheap flights to sunny destinations

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