genuinely losing hope

MuchZeus · 26-11-2020 4:29pm #1

it’s hard. it’s really f*cking hard. i’m trying my best to get into some kind of admin career. i am 23 years of age and i’ve a bachelor’s degree in business & management that i struggled to finish (wanted to drop out several times, couple of repeat exams, graduated with a 2:2). i’ve been working as a hospital porter for nearly 2.5 years now (it’s a job i had part time during college) and i’ve been trying to get admin jobs since january. i graduated last october and wasn’t sure what to do with myself but i’ve an idea now.

only thing i have going for me currently is a place on the panel for tco in the civil service and for another panel in my hospital for clerical officer. i’m also on panels for administrative officer, but i’m very far down on the panels and unlikely to be called for interviews/tests etc.

i haven’t applied to anything in the private sector, partly due to some of these jobs not paying a similar rate to what i’m getting atm, but also... idk where to start. i also feel like i’d be laughed at with my 2:2 result when there are plenty of similar applicants with 1:1s, and 2:1s, etc...

in the past two days i’ve gotten two rejection emails for grade 3 clerical jobs (1 in my hospital, another in a different one) and a few weeks ago, a rejection email from the enterprise ireland grad programme. it’s bloody humiliating, i am trying to better my situation but things like that just kick me in the face and i feel worthless and useless, that i’m not good enough. but i know i’d be good in those jobs, i just need the chance to prove it. but having no office experience doesn’t help, as well as being in a job with few transferable skills.

is there an end to this feeling of hopelessness? i feel like one of the days i’m just going to throw in the towel and give up, this country depresses me, i feel like i’m just one of the unlucky ones and should just give up. i’ve no idea what i’m truly good at in life and i’m just trying to get some kind of decent 9-5 stable work. but even that seems to be increasingly difficult for me to achieve, despite my trying.

when will it end?

Smee_Again · 26-11-2020 4:55pm

As someone who left college with a Pass degree my advice would be to apply for any and all jobs that are of interest to you even those in the private sector, spend twice as much time as you have been on each application (even if this means you reduce the number of jobs you apply to) and tailor each application to the job posting along with the cover letter.

Then, if and when you get called to an interview, attend and see how it goes. If you get an offer it's only then that you should decide whether the pay is worth it compared to your current job. You're going to struggle to get a job if you limit yourself to just the Civil or Public Service.

Would a pay cut not be worth it if you felt better about yourself?

Mrs OBumble · 26-11-2020 5:09pm

The current time is probably the worst ever to be job hunting: with wfh no one's going to hire anyone with no experience.

You just need to keep trying, no matter how much the rejections knock you.

Daisychain777 · 26-11-2020 5:29pm

Hi OP,

I’m sorry to hear about the rejections you’ve been receiving. I am myself only a recent entrant to the civil service from the 2020 clerical officer panel (due to expire next year) . Roughly took me two years of constant applications/tests to gain entry. Previously I had a decades retail and other industries experience. When I left my retail job I concentrated on office based jobs within my skill set (customer service) to gain the experience I lacked and obtained other courses to fill in any knowledge gaps.

I would recommend an ECDL course and any other online admin course etc to gain the skills you haven’t as much experience in. I found my own ECDL course a helpful talking point in my CO interview in particular it also shows a dedication to self development which is a competency assessed . I also found getting a second eye over my applications to be helpful to offer room to improve or add in to the competencies .

Hope this helps, best of luck with further applications. Never give up . Keep trying . It does click eventually.

beecarroll · 26-11-2020 6:24pm

I totally get where you are coming from - I actually dropped out of uni, then returned a bit later to do a degree (and then an MA) that were entirely useless in getting employment. There were times when it felt like life was totally passing me by, and everyone had their **** together and I had no plan. However, now in my late 30s, I am grateful for some of the random things I tried in my 20s as I tried to figure it out, especially as I know now that so many of my friends were also struggling.

I want to pass on some things I have learned along the way.

1. Your degree may not even matter. Seriously. There are so many jobs that demand a degree, but it is a box-ticking exercise. This might not be comforting now, as you are trying to get some experience, but after a few years, employers will look at your experience, rather than what grades you got. So, while it might feel like a hurdle now, in a few years it will be less important. Also, so many people work in areas entirely different to their undergrad.

2. Free courses! Pad your CV, to indicate your interests and also maybe you might something that you really enjoy. MOOC Courses are free online courses provided by universities - Coursera, EDX etc. I have done some great ones, and in the very least, you can have a sense of completion when you finish one.

3. https://springboardcourses.ie/ - You don't even need to be unemployed to do many of them, and they are geared towards areas there are employment opportunities.

4. Volunteer/Intern. If you have a spare day a week, check out your local volunteer centre or even contact place you might like to learn at. Be honest, that you want to build you skills. This is what myself and some friends did during the recession.

5. Temp! If you find the right agency, they can be v helpful in how to sell yourself. Might not be the best time for temping now, or worth leaving a job for, but you could get in touch anyway to suss it out.

6. Travel! Maybe you should leave, you are young enough to go try out all the wrong jobs! And backpacking about can be very eye opening. Working for accommodation in a hostel, you have to change beds, but you also have to do admin - a good CV item if you want to get experience. Again, COVID dependent, but spend the next 6 months working like crazy and then feck off to explore your opportunities. ALSO, if you did want to stay somewhere longer, I knew someone who worked in local gov in Australia and LOVED it, she got great supports and training opportunities.

7. Local guidance officer in your ETB. This is a service available to people exploring course options, but they are trained guidance officers could could help you talk through whats going on with you.

didyoufart? · 26-11-2020 6:46pm

OP i think you need a reality check. Your overqualified for admin work and badly underselling yourself.
Are you ready to move to anywhere in Ireland to land your first job or even abroad.

Also why are you not applying for jobs in the private sector. Is it below you or something to work in the private sector and this is where everyone gets their first job out of college. You will have to suck it up and accept the lower pay for a couple of years. I got a pass degree, started on 22K the first year, bumped up to 28K the 2nd year, 35K the third year and moved jobs outside of Dublin and now earning 45K a year.

Forgot about comparing a 2.2 degree with a 1st class honors degree. Forget it even exists and apply to jobs like you have a 1st class honors degree.

Have someone proof read your C.V and tailor each cover letter to the job description on offer. Send off maybe 5 C.V's a week. The experience in hospitals will stand to you big time in applying for jobs.

The biggest struggle for a lot of graduates is obtaining their first job out of college. Not applying for jobs in the private sector is just ridiculous in my view.

saabsaab · 26-11-2020 6:46pm

Don't ever give up! Things are bad right now but won't be forever.

Keep up contacts with friends and the grapevine you'd never know what might be useful. Also don't be worried that you are too far down the list. I know that many are called maybe even a year or two later.

Aleece2020 · 13-12-2020 12:21am

Hi OP, I share in your misery. I'm 27 and graduated with a Masters last year. I have not found a graduate position since then due to a combination of poor health, the pandemic and just plain bad luck. I was ready to start a graduate position in May, which was cancelled due to the pandemic and a second later in the year which was then cancelled due to the Dublin lockdown.

I have had three surgeries for two separate issues in the space of two years and will be going for a fourth next week; so it's been a bit of a struggle trying to keep myself together. I haven't been doing so great physically, but that aside I find it very hard mentally at times and it's incredibly draining dealing with all of this while throwing in hundreds of job applications at a time and receiving nothing back. At this point, I wish life would cut me a break and stop throwing bad things my way. Like you, I feel that I've been kicked in the face a lot by fate or whatever else you might call the invisible force that seems to be conspiring against certain people. I sometimes have an unfounded paranoia that employers can just sense that there's something wrong with me despite not disclosing my health information to them. I know that all sounds totally ridiculous; but when you're down you really do start to believe these things and it's difficult to get out of that mindset.

My advise to you is to apply to every graduate program you are remotely qualified for. It doesn't matter if it's your dream position or not. The majority of graduate programs only last 1-2 years and they're a means to an end. Most of these applications ask very similar questions and you'll want to get used to them. They also have online tests, all of which are similar. I have done dozens of them and they are a great way to prepare for Civil Service exams; I went from placing 5,400th+ on the CO panel this year in March to inside 500 on the EO panel recently. At this point, you're probably past the point of being a CO or TCO. You were right to go for the AO position. I'd also suggest going for EO position next time it comes up because you can score well on that with management skills from your degree. Keep an eye out for specific EO positions on the publicjobs site because that's a good place for you.

I also applied for the enterprise Ireland grad scheme (last year however, not this year) and was rejected. If I were you, I wouldn't worry about it at all. There are so many applications and so few positions available that getting one is like winning the lottery. Treat graduate positions as such and accept that you will get a lot of rejections - but you won't win the lottery without buying a ticket. They're worth applying to for the practice tests and getting used to the style of questions you'll be asked.

You won't get much right now because of the pandemic and the next few months will be more of the same. Spend the time applying to these graduate programs for practice, do free courses and focus on building yourself up mentally. Then when it all settles down and things start moving again, you'll be ready.

Green farmer · 13-12-2020 1:16am

Keep working away with your job and keep applying. I wouldnt be taking it personally. Yes, easier said then done, but Hardly nothing has moved anywhere over the last 10 months. As soon as the pandemic lifts, theres going to be a backlog of places needing filling, in both the public and private sector. You've your whole career in front of you.

OMM 0000 · 14-12-2020 2:17pm

Do you use a tailored cover letter for each job application?

Please PM me an example cover letter and I will help you improve it.

PopZiggy · 14-12-2020 11:14pm

1. Don't put the grade of the degree on your CV. It is still an honours degree, so put it down as "Bachelor of Arts (honours)" or similar. Some recruiters won't even ask.
2. You are applying for admin jobs. Many people in those roles don't have a degree. Please stop downgrading yourself.
3. Over time your work experience will become more important than your degree for many roles. Noone will really care what your primary degree is let lone the grade (unless in a specialist field)
4. If you feel self conscious about the grade of your degree in a few years do a master's at night in something your enjoy. That should "superspeed" the grade of your initial degree.
5. I recently ran a recruitment campaign (public service) and had 60 applicants. Of those 30 were potentially excellent or very good candidates. There was only one position available, and in the end only one got a job offer and two were put on the panel. It was very competitive and many of those who received rejection letters were very strong candidates but just didn't make the grade (which was very high indeed). You need to realise that applying for jobs takes a lot of time and persistence, and don't be phased by rejection letters, almost everyone gets them, and plenty of them when starting out. It is normal and to be expected, like making mistakes when learning to drive.

Well done on sticking out the degree and graduating. Also well done on landing the job as porter and getting through the pandemic. Be grateful for what you have and what you have achieved, many people would be very happy to get into portering with the HSE so don't downgrade this achievement either. Please get things into perspective and keep going. You can thank me later.

Aleece2020 · 29-01-2021 12:15am

PopZiggy wrote: »

1. Don't put the grade of the degree on your CV. It is still an honours degree, so put it down as "Bachelor of Arts (honours)" or similar. Some recruiters won't even ask.

I just wanted to say that I tried doing this and it has helped me to get further along in the process. I’ve been called to an interview for the first time in a while after removing the grade of my degrees from my CV. I’ve also been invited to multiple online assessments and exams. They don’t ask for the grade explicitly and they only advertise that you must have a degree for the position most of the time with no mention of a grading requirement.

I also found that throwing my CV around like confetti really helps. Putting in 10-15 applications a week with generic cover letters and CVs with just minor adjustments to the first few sentences has worked better than researching companies and writing sincere cover letters. It really shouldn’t in my opinion; but the more it does, the more I feel like this is a numbers game.

ari101 · 29-01-2021 1:59am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

The current time is probably the worst ever to be job hunting: with wfh no one's going to hire anyone with no experience.

You just need to keep trying, no matter how much the rejections knock you.

I second this, last year was bad, and this year will be for another while, too many applicants for two few jobs.

Keep going, do things to better your CV and opportunities will come, maybe at a lower rate for a year or two, but it will happen!

Mrs OBumble · 29-01-2021 9:05am

Aleece2020 wrote: »

the more I feel like this is a numbers game.

It is.

Aleece2020 · 01-02-2021 3:19pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

It is.

It definitely is. I was offered a six month contract recently, pending references etc.- I had sent them a generic CV and cover letter in mid-December for the position. I’m hoping to start soon assuming they like my references and nothing goes wrong there. It’s not a position I’m crazy about but I’m waiting for my number to be called on the EO panel for the e-tray so I’m happy to do something else while I wait.

Tailoring your CV every single time seems to do **** all good and so does writing genuine cover letters. I started out doing everything that career advisors tell you to do; research the company, write a cover letter, tailor your CV for the job etc. It didn’t work for me, not even once. What did work was sending out a large volume of generic CVs with one or two sentences changed at the start to briefly reference the job.

genuinely losing hope

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