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13-05-2020, 22:43   #31
Eric Cartman
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I think a city is a great place to be in your 20s and early 30s, when its time to buy a house and have kids it becomes less attractive. Employees starting out in their careers absolutely need to be in an office to learn how to work, make a name for themselves and develop a raport with other employees. Similarly there are some types of people in some jobs (sales, marketing) who thrive off being in an office space with others.

WFH suits people who've got a fair few years ( >7) under their belt in their industry and have achieved a promotion or two. For those people now reaching the age where they're settling down, the ability to go to their parents hometown or a rural town they like and buy a house at a reasonable cost and start a family and put down roots there is a great and invaluable opportunity.

I think we'll see a lot more balance in future after this, but the city isn't emptying any time soon. certain people at a certain level in certain careers at a certain time in their lives will be at home and others may just work from home 1-2 days a week.
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13-05-2020, 22:45   #32
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I vividly remember talking heads after 9/11 declaring that tall buildings would no longer be built, because people would refuse to work in them.

This will be a blip in a multi-generational trend to urbanisation. No more.

To those dreaming of country piles: if we actually try to hit 7% PA carbon reduction targets rather than just pretending, you will be hankering for a two-bed apartment in short order.

Last edited by Nermal; 13-05-2020 at 22:48.
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13-05-2020, 22:50   #33
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Whilst this will become more prevalent I have a few issues:

So I can imagine most places becoming flexible and offering a couple of days a week from home but not full time.
  • Companies still have leases to fulfil, lots won't plan for major changes whilst they are still paying for a big office - Of course but there are leases being renewed every month. The decision will come into focus as the renewal draws nearer.
  • Its about to become an employers market with large unemployment, so the worker who wants to push for WFH may not have a choice unless it also suits the employer - agreed, this is only going to happen if it is the employer pushing for WFH, which I think will they do in increasing numbers.
  • Not everyone actually wants to WFH anyway. Our office are currently conducting a poll, will be interesting to see the results. From talking to people I think it will vary largely based on age groups. The younger people actually would rather be in the office for the social element - agreed but if employers are pushing for WFH in an employers market, that will drive the change. Agree re the younger people, my reasoning is entirely based on those in 30s planning settling down/families etc.
  • How do you bring in new staff if everyone's working from home? Someone made a good point in the other thread - part of the reason this is working fine for most offices is because of the relationships which had been previously made, how will that happen now? - Productive WFH will become a prized skill that employees hone, get references for. There is software that can track it and get metrics to measure it by. Bringing in new employees always has carried an element of risk. This is no different.
  • There are tasks and projects which will simply be performed better if people can meet up and discuss them in person - of course just as there are tasks that are performed better if people are left alone to get on with them. It is not going to work for every job/industry/employer etc.
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13-05-2020, 22:54   #34
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You still have to pay it, if you don't you are sued for breach of contract.
Completely agree.

Hence if you are looking at signing a renewal of a 25 year contract for the second largest business expense you have, you'll think long and hard about if your business is one of those that operates perfectly well with employees WFH.

Hence why I said in the OP, don't think about 3 months, think about what it might be like in 3 years, or in 30 years?
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13-05-2020, 23:00   #35
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Twitter announced today that going forward anyone who wants to work from home can do so.

In my own case, 100% of my job can be done remotely. I've been doing so since March 13th. Most likely will be until September 1st at the earliest.

If I could continue to do so, i could move closer to family and pay a third of the rent i currently am for somewhere twice the size, if not bigger.
Why would they pay you good money to do a job remotely that could be done in another country cheaper?

It will be a bloodbath imo if wfm is widespread
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13-05-2020, 23:06   #36
schmittel
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Why would they pay you good money to do a job remotely that could be done in another country cheaper?

It will be a bloodbath imo if wfm is widespread
That is likely to be a problem one way or another.

i know this is not exactly what you're talking about but it has been happening in IT offices for years under the noses of managers. At least with WFH they'll be looking out for it!

Quote:
A security check on a US company has reportedly revealed one of its staff was outsourcing his work to China.

The software developer, in his 40s, is thought to have spent his workdays surfing the web, watching cat videos on YouTube and browsing Reddit and eBay.

He reportedly paid just a fifth of his six-figure salary to a company based in Shenyang to do his job.
https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-21043693
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13-05-2020, 23:08   #37
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Yea, you're out of touch.

This isn't how it works in the real world.
It is though, just maybe not in the industry or roles you are familiar with.
Saying that the world is not one way based on your personal experience is a stretch.

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There are benefits to companies in this approach as office space is expensive and if all of your staff wfh 1 day a week you need 20% less office space for example. As more companies move to cloud based services like O365 etc it becomes even easier for employees to work remote and as they are paying for the cloud based services anyway it’s no added cost to remote working.
There is no doubt that where previously some companies had zero support for WFH it is now more likely to be permitted, but that is very different to agreeing to permanent WFH.

Everyone is deciding that the issue around working from home is somehow access to corporate networks. Those problems were solved decades ago and yet here we still are.
There are some things that are critical to success over the long term that cannot be replicated with everyone working remotely.

Ask anyone in IT if it's easier to work with a local or remote dev team for example.

In any case, all your staff working one day a week from home will do nothing to property prices, which is presumably the point of this thread.

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These are the cohort (cohort - the covid press conference's favourite word) who will press hard to work remotely in their home place for the likes of the newer tech companies.
Tech companies like Google who are buying and leasing property like mad? WFH is hardly a new concept for them, so why does this modern tech giant need so many buildings?
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13-05-2020, 23:12   #38
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In any case, all your staff working one day a week from home will do nothing to property prices, which is presumably the point of this thread.
Yes, that's the point of the thread, and I agree that one day a week is not going make any difference.

How do you see the working from home landscape in 30 years time and with what impact on prices?
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13-05-2020, 23:53   #39
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I'm already looking to relocate from Dublin to my hometown in the Midlands and hope to do so in the next 18 months, hopefully sooner. Was always my plan and the current situation I think will speed this up. I'm kind of lucky in that my company already allowed remote working 2 days a week before current situation and the whole department has been remote working full time since mid March and going rather smoothly. I plan to work from home at least 3 days a week once I move.

I think my biggest problems will be if I go to transfer teams in the future, I think I'll have to make myself available in the office more regularly for the first few weeks for training etc. Would also be more difficult get a job somewhere else if applying I think but overall I think these would be 2 small issues.

I know a few others in my company doing similar so I think this will be popular, especially as people get the stage of having children.
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14-05-2020, 00:04   #40
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It is though, just maybe not in the industry or roles you are familiar with.
Saying that the world is not one way based on your personal experience is a stretch.


There is no doubt that where previously some companies had zero support for WFH it is now more likely to be permitted, but that is very different to agreeing to permanent WFH.

Everyone is deciding that the issue around working from home is somehow access to corporate networks. Those problems were solved decades ago and yet here we still are.
There are some things that are critical to success over the long term that cannot be replicated with everyone working remotely.

Ask anyone in IT if it's easier to work with a local or remote dev team for example.

In any case, all your staff working one day a week from home will do nothing to property prices, which is presumably the point of this thread.



Tech companies like Google who are buying and leasing property like mad? WFH is hardly a new concept for them, so why does this modern tech giant need so many buildings?
I personally would prefer a mix of wfh and office based (2 days office would be ideal). The team I work with are already spread across a number of sites so don’t see most of them week to week anyway so wfh makes no real difference.

With regards to property the realisation by more companies that wfh is an option means that remote working from cheaper locations should become more common. Even if you had to go to the office 1 or 2 days every so often the longer commute would be offset by the cheaper accommodation etc.
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14-05-2020, 00:14   #41
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New York Times has an interesting article on the subject:

Even after the crisis eases, companies may let workers stay home. That would affect an entire ecosystem, from transit to restaurants to shops. Not to mention the tax base.

Quote:
David Kenny, the chief executive at Nielsen, said the company plans to convert its New York offices to team meeting spaces where workers gather maybe once or twice a week.

“If you are coming and working at your desk, you certainly could do that from home,” Mr. Kenny said. “We have leases that are coming due, and it’s absolutely driving those kinds of decisions.’’

“I have done an about-face on this,” he added.
Quote:
James Gorman, the Morgan Stanley chief executive, declined a request for an interview. But he told Bloomberg that the company had “proven we can operate with no footprint. That tells you an enormous amount about where people need to be physically.”
Quote:
“The world is going to be different when we come out of quarantine, and our habits and how we use office space will absolutely be different,” said Gavin Fraser, the company’s chief executive. “It really took the lockdown, if you will, to accelerate those trends.”
Well worth a read for anybody interested in the subject.
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14-05-2020, 07:40   #42
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if wfh does increase significantly short term and people move to smaller towns, it will be interesting to see what towns/areas have infrastructure to support - schools, Creche’s, transport links, public amenities etc. As i understand it there is a shortage of school places in parts of the country?
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14-05-2020, 08:01   #43
schmittel
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if wfh does increase significantly short term and people move to smaller towns, it will be interesting to see what towns/areas have infrastructure to support - schools, Creche’s, transport links, public amenities etc. As i understand it there is a shortage of school places in parts of the country?
again that will develop over time as the demand for infrastructure increases over time.
re schools I think Dublin has one of biggest shortage problems.
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14-05-2020, 08:14   #44
smurgen
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I vividly remember talking heads after 9/11 declaring that tall buildings would no longer be built, because people would refuse to work in them.

This will be a blip in a multi-generational trend to urbanisation. No more.

To those dreaming of country piles: if we actually try to hit 7% PA carbon reduction targets rather than just pretending, you will be hankering for a two-bed apartment in short order.
Who said country? It could mean a regrowth of small towns.
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14-05-2020, 08:42   #45
GreeBo
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I personally would prefer a mix of wfh and office based (2 days office would be ideal). The team I work with are already spread across a number of sites so don’t see most of them week to week anyway so wfh makes no real difference.

With regards to property the realisation by more companies that wfh is an option means that remote working from cheaper locations should become more common. Even if you had to go to the office 1 or 2 days every so often the longer commute would be offset by the cheaper accommodation etc.
That's the way it has been for years for many companies though and it didn't prompt many people to move.
All I'm expecting to see is more people WFH a few days, not some mad exodus out of Dublin.

1 day in the office versus 1 day at home is a huge shift.
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