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02-01-2020, 10:30   #31
Interested Observer
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I went sale agreed about 12 months ago at this point and viewed so many places that were chopped up into rental units that would have needed massive work to get up to standard. We were pretty much only looking at red-brick terrace in D7/D9. It's actually a real shame to see the state some of the houses were in, a lot of them would have been nice period family properties but have been gutted of all the charm they ever had and have been left to deteriorate badly by landlords.
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02-01-2020, 10:39   #32
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Agreed, we also offered 50k under asking for a house in D15 recently. A family member came with us who is somewhat savvy with building, having turned over a few houses. He estimated ~ 70k worth of work to bring the house up to scratch (The plumbing was visibly all over the place, electrics were not the best, old boiler out the back which looked like an explosion waiting to happen, house had been idle for ~ 1.5 years).

The EA pretty much laughed in our face when we offered 50k under asking - that was sometime back in early Sept I believe, no movement or other offers on the house yet (as far as we know).

Its very frustrating - to the point where we've now decided to likely shift gear and start looking at new build stock. Set price, no back and forth with unrealistic asking prices etc.
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02-01-2020, 10:53   #33
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I've been keeping an eye on the housing market in Dublin more out of curiosity than anything else and to see if Brexit or other factors have an impact in the coming years.

The current cost of second hand units in the area were I live are off in a fantasy land. Either the sellers or the EAs advising them are clueless or deluded. This is not in Dublin city, but a commuter belt town which has 2 x new developments in progress and potentially two more happening in the next 12 months judging by the planning passed for the area.

An example being of one house in the area that is a fair bit smaller than our current new build, in need of a good bit of work, new updated kitchen, insulation and heating upgrade etc and is listed at over €120k more than what we paid 12 months ago.

It's one of a number which are appearing on the market in the area and all appear seriously over priced. I know asking and actual selling price are two very different things but surely they know people do research and can see previous selling prices in the areas from the property price register.

I can understand why people are now preferring new builds, no bidding wars, price is fixed and everything is new with little or no maintenance required for the first few years.

Can anyone explain this type of behaviour for second hand houses as I'm completely confused tbh?
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02-01-2020, 11:15   #34
SteelyDanJalapeno
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https://www.myhome.ie/residential/br...y-cork/4326164

This place has been for sale for longest time, recently dropped 50k in listed price from 310k down to 260k, it has now peaked my interest a little.

Wondering if any Cork folk have experience of this house or the area?
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02-01-2020, 11:16   #35
D.Wilmott
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ToxicPaddy View Post
I've been keeping an eye on the housing market in Dublin more out of curiosity than anything else and to see if Brexit or other factors have an impact in the coming years.

The current cost of second hand units in the area were I live are off in a fantasy land. Either the sellers or the EAs advising them are clueless or deluded. This is not in Dublin city, but a commuter belt town which has 2 x new developments in progress and potentially two more happening in the next 12 months judging by the planning passed for the area.

An example being of one house in the area that is a fair bit smaller than our current new build, in need of a good bit of work, new updated kitchen, insulation and heating upgrade etc and is listed at over €120k more than what we paid 12 months ago.

It's one of a number which are appearing on the market in the area and all appear seriously over priced. I know asking and actual selling price are two very different things but surely they know people do research and can see previous selling prices in the areas from the property price register.

I can understand why people are now preferring new builds, no bidding wars, price is fixed and everything is new with little or no maintenance required for the first few years.

Can anyone explain this type of behaviour for second hand houses as I'm completely confused tbh?

The minimum 10% social housing element would personally have me favoring 2nd hand house in more settled estates any day. That 10% is usually even higher, we bought 5 years ago and viewed showhouses in a new development in D15. Turns out an entire block of houses/apartments was being allocated as social housing adjacent to the private ones. By my calculations this was 25% of that particular phase of development. This is something that is being kept very quiet and conveniently never mentioned by the developers or EAs, as they don't want the folks handing them 400k for a house knowing large numbers of people are getting the same house next door essentially free. Call me snobby or whatever but we based our decision to avoid on the (repeated) history of how antisocial behaviour starts and grows in social housing estates.


Another reason may be, houses that are 20+ years old will have any building faults or fire dangers exposed by then. If they can get away with building defective primary schools (as recently as 2017), it's not a far stretch to believe there could be serious unexposed engineering faults or fire hazards in new home/apartment builds being completed now.


Anyway that's my 2c, in summary people don't just consider insulation and new kitchens when choosing whether to buy a new build or 2nd hand home. I still believe location is the #1 factor.
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02-01-2020, 11:18   #36
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With second hand homes, in particular those needing some work, the asking prices can vary substantially. Some sellers see that a house a few roads over went for X amount and read about average selling prices in their area which creates somewhat of an expectation. However, if there is work needed on their house, at the moment it is absolutely turning off first time buyers. Anything over €500k is practically unaffordable for first time buyers due to the lending restrictions so if work is required then they may as well forget about looking to sell to first time buyers.

However, it would appear that it can only get worse for second hand homes over €500k. Any new builds on the market will be targeted at the first time buyer market and likely be snapped up straight away. This seems to be what will happen over the next five years as the trickle of completions starts to flow and there is strong political pressure to put a big push on getting more homes built. The pool of first time buyers of second hand homes will become smaller and those looking to upgrade or downgrade may struggle to sell. In addition, with an aging population, those looking to cash in for retirement will start introducing their homes to the market which will push down prices further. If the rental market becomes better, people may be happier to rent rather than take on a mortgage debt as well.

In summary, the second hand home market will probably continue to see an average price decline. However, it is a very broad market and some homes will go for a lot less than the area average while others will probably hold strong with their selling price versus the average.

Last edited by Assetbacked; 02-01-2020 at 11:23.
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02-01-2020, 12:52   #37
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Most builders went bankrupt between 2008 and 2010 ,or stop working in ireland,imagine building houses, in athlone priced at 200k,
overnight they were only worth 130k.When the crash happened .Nama was set up to manage property and house,s ,building,s ,etc
which the banks now owned .ghost estates were left empty which had to
be managed and finished ,after the builders went out of business .
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02-01-2020, 15:53   #38
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This is precisely why prices are falling.
We are building roughly 22k units per annum.
Of this just over 10k units are hitting the open market- the other 12k are being sold to institutional investors of one type or another.
The other 54,000 odd units being sold in the market are the secondhand units.
People are increasingly not investing in improvements in secondhand properties- as the investment is not reflected in a commensurate increase in asking price.

So- the market is being dragged down- by secondhand units- because no-one is happy to make the investment to bring the units that are hitting the market up to modern specs.

The fall in prices could be arrested if some changes were made to, for example, the rules governing the grant for first time buyers allowing them avail of the government largess on secondhand units.

Everyone wants the new units- while there is a dearth of people chasing the secondhand units- which are being sold in increasingly shabby and dilapidated states.
Can I ask where you got that figure of 12k of new units being sold to institutional investors?
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02-01-2020, 15:54   #39
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One of the main reasons 2nd hand house prices are so unrealistic is that anyone looking to sell needs to have a 20% deposit to purchase anything else.

Unless they have a huge chunk of savings they need the equity from the house sale.

The Central Bank rules for the most part are a good idea but 2nd hand house owners generally don’t have 80-100k lying around so will need to get that money from someone if they want to buy.

It is what it is.
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02-01-2020, 16:03   #40
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Originally Posted by ittakestwo View Post
Can I ask where you got that figure of 12k of new units being sold to institutional investors?
Read it over the break online- think it was the dreaded Indo- I'll see if I can find a link for you.
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02-01-2020, 17:22   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D.Wilmott View Post
The minimum 10% social housing element would personally have me favoring 2nd hand house in more settled estates any day. That 10% is usually even higher, we bought 5 years ago and viewed showhouses in a new development in D15. Turns out an entire block of houses/apartments was being allocated as social housing adjacent to the private ones. By my calculations this was 25% of that particular phase of development. This is something that is being kept very quiet and conveniently never mentioned by the developers or EAs, as they don't want the folks handing them 400k for a house knowing large numbers of people are getting the same house next door essentially free. Call me snobby or whatever but we based our decision to avoid on the (repeated) history of how antisocial behaviour starts and grows in social housing estates.


Another reason may be, houses that are 20+ years old will have any building faults or fire dangers exposed by then. If they can get away with building defective primary schools (as recently as 2017), it's not a far stretch to believe there could be serious unexposed engineering faults or fire hazards in new home/apartment builds being completed now.


Anyway that's my 2c, in summary people don't just consider insulation and new kitchens when choosing whether to buy a new build or 2nd hand home. I still believe location is the #1 factor.
This was the reason why I didn’t look at new builds to begin along with gardens. It’s different in Cork as new build estates don’t seem to have planning for apartments (well the ones I’ve looked at) and are smaller in nature. I must say the two we look at first question I asked what which houses were social housing which they had no issue with disclosing. And also one or two second hand house estate we looked at - we were very surprised how many have been sold to the Council. One house we were bidding on we were bidding against the Council! So I would say you have to be wary in both regards.
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02-01-2020, 19:07   #42
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Originally Posted by ittakestwo View Post
Can I ask where you got that figure of 12k of new units being sold to institutional investors?
I have heard from someone I know in property that investors, including themselves are no longer buying, but are selling.

If investors are moving away it will have a big impact you would think.
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02-01-2020, 19:22   #43
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Prices are falling all across Dublin now which is great news.
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02-01-2020, 19:23   #44
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Prices are falling all across Dublin now which is great news.
For who. Surely thats relative.
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02-01-2020, 19:46   #45
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Originally Posted by SteelyDanJalapeno View Post
https://www.myhome.ie/residential/br...y-cork/4326164

This place has been for sale for longest time, recently dropped 50k in listed price from 310k down to 260k, it has now peaked my interest a little.

Wondering if any Cork folk have experience of this house or the area?

At a very wild guess, it needs works but you'll be hamstrung in that you need planning for absolutely everything, including wallpaper, rooms, floors, doors.
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