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LGBT and Islam
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Islam is not a person though. The chairperson of the Irish Muslim Peace and Integration Council and Chief Imam of the Islamic Centre of Ireland is, however, and he has condemned extremism and advocated removing citizenship from returning ISIS fighters. It doesn't get much coverage though. That's pretty much top level in Ireland for Muslims.
This is not a discussion about extremism, but about where LGBT sits, or doesn't, within Islam.
The Islamic centre in Clonskeagh, whose chief imam won't speak english after over twenty years in the country, was totally against same sex marriage.
People are happy and quick to bash Catholicism, and often rightly so, but don't mention islam the same way.
Why not?
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This is not a discussion about extremism, but about where LGBT sits, or doesn't, within Islam.
The Islamic centre in Clonskeagh, whose chief imam won't speak english after over twenty years in the country, was totally against same sex marriage.
People are happy and quick to bash Catholicism, and often rightly so, but don't mention islam the same way.
Why not?
He believes that killing gays is correct. That he is again same sex marriage is neither here nor there in context.
His son was speaking at Rallies in Egypt while those he was backing were throwing gays off roofs around the city.
He ended up on the Late late show ffs.
These aren't fringe cranks.0 -
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This is not a discussion about extremism, but about where LGBT sits, or doesn't, within Islam.
The Islamic centre in Clonskeagh, whose chief imam won't speak english after over twenty years in the country, was totally against same sex marriage.
People are happy and quick to bash Catholicism, and often rightly so, but don't mention islam the same way.
Why not?
I don't think anyone is bashing the Catholic church for being catholic. They've a lot of influence and should have absolutely no say in how the country is run.
I think that would be the same towards Muslims are any other religion. Catholics get more press because there's more of them and they've more influence I would have thought.0 -
People are happy and quick to bash Catholicism, and often rightly so, but don't mention islam the same way.
Why not?
Because people in the West generally aren’t as familiar with Islam as they are with Christianity, or in an Irish context, people aren’t as exposed to Islam as they are to Catholicism. That’s precisely why Islam isn’t mentioned in the same way as Catholicism. Why would it be? They aren’t as equally influential in Western society or in Irish society as each other. Dara O’ Brian explains it well at four minutes into this video -
It’s precisely why an Islamic version of Father Ted for example just wouldn’t work, because an Irish audience simply can’t relate to it, and wouldn’t get the humour, because they have limited experience of Islam. Some people are of the impression that Islam is primarily concerned with paedophilia, jihads and homosexuality, and they ignore the vast cultural impact of Islam in the societies where Islam is the predominant religion.
The thing is, people are perfectly entitled to care about one thing and not something else, that is entirely their prerogative. This idea that because a person cares about one thing or objects to one thing, that they should care about someone or something or object to something else, is the stuff of nonsense. People care about what they care about, or object to what they object to, they aren’t obligated to care for everyone or everything equally, nor are they obligated to object to everyone or everything equally. Why should they? I wouldn’t be able to take someone seriously who claims to care about everyone and everything equally, because it just isn’t humanly possible. It doesn’t take long to find out where their biases, prejudices and bigotry are though based upon their beliefs about themselves and other people, and what they believe separates them from other people,0 -
One eyed Jack wrote: »Because people in the West generally aren’t as familiar with Islam as they are with Christianity, or in an Irish context, people aren’t as exposed to Islam as they are to Catholicism. That’s precisely why Islam isn’t mentioned in the same way as Catholicism. Why would it be? They aren’t as equally influential in Western society or in Irish society as each other. Dara O’ Brian explains it well at four minutes into this video -
It’s precisely why an Islamic version of Father Ted for example just wouldn’t work, because an Irish audience simply can’t relate to it, and wouldn’t get the humour, because they have limited experience of Islam. Some people are of the impression that Islam is primarily concerned with paedophilia, jihads and homosexuality, and they ignore the vast cultural impact of Islam in the societies where Islam is the predominant religion.
The thing is, people are perfectly entitled to care about one thing and not something else, that is entirely their prerogative. This idea that because a person cares about one thing or objects to one thing, that they should care about someone or something or object to something else, is the stuff of nonsense. People care about what they care about, or object to what they object to, they aren’t obligated to care for everyone or everything equally, nor are they obligated to object to everyone or everything equally. Why should they? I wouldn’t be able to take someone seriously who claims to care about everyone and everything equally, because it just isn’t humanly possible. It doesn’t take long to find out where their biases, prejudices and bigotry are though based upon their beliefs about themselves and other people, and what they believe separates them from other people,
Or maybe it's because you could end up dead for making fun of Islam, they don't like people taking the piss out of oul Mohammad0 -
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This is not a discussion about extremism, but about where LGBT sits, or doesn't, within Islam.
The Islamic centre in Clonskeagh, whose chief imam won't speak english after over twenty years in the country, was totally against same sex marriage.
People are happy and quick to bash Catholicism, and often rightly so, but don't mention islam the same way.
Why not?
A strange one considering democracy is considered haram under Sharia Law0 -
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My post was not a question, Jack. It was a statement in reply to you :
You can make jokes and cartoons about any subject under the Sun without fear of reprisal Jack, but not Mohammad or Islam, And people are being killed all round the world for the crime of "Insulting Islam "just because you personally have not heard of it, does not mean that it is not happening. Do a little bit of research on the subject, and you will see what I mean.
I’ve done my research on the subject and that’s why I never denied that it happened. I said something along the lines of more people have claimed they can’t make jokes about Mohammed than people who have actually died for making jokes about Mohammed.
Remember Salman Rushdie? He makes jokes about his own fatwa -
Rushdie has reported that he still receives a "sort of Valentine's card" from Iran each year on 14 February letting him know the country has not forgotten the vow to kill him and has jokingly referred it as "my unfunny Valentine" in a reference to the song "My Funny Valentine". He said, "It's reached the point where it's a piece of rhetoric rather than a real threat." Despite the threats on Rushdie personally, he said that his family has never been threatened, and that his mother, who lived in Pakistan during the later years of her life, even received outpourings of support. Rushdie himself has been prevented from entering Pakistan, however.
...
Rushdie came from a liberal Muslim family although he now identifies as an atheist. In a 2006 interview with PBS, Rushdie called himself a "hardline atheist".
In 1989, in an interview following the fatwa, Rushdie said that he was in a sense a lapsed Muslim, though "shaped by Muslim culture more than any other", and a student of Islam. In another interview the same year, he said, "My point of view is that of a secular human being. I do not believe in supernatural entities, whether Christian, Jewish, Muslim or Hindu."
In 1990, in the "hope that it would reduce the threat of Muslims acting on the fatwa to kill him," he issued a statement claiming he had renewed his Muslim faith, had repudiated the attacks on Islam made by characters in his novel and was committed to working for better understanding of the religion across the world. However, Rushdie later said that he was only "pretending".
You think there aren’t many Muslims like Rushdie who wouldn’t get a kick out of satire at Mohammed or Islam’s expense? They’d positively relish in it, because in spite of Western portrayals of Muslims as backwards suicide bombers primed to go off at the slightest provocation, they’re generally not all that different from their Western progressive counterparts who are primed to go off at the slightest provocation
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One eyed Jack wrote: »I’ve done my research on the subject and that’s why I never denied that it happened. I said something along the lines of more people have claimed they can’t make jokes about Mohammed than people who have actually died for making jokes about Mohammed.
Remember Salman Rushdie? He makes jokes about his own fatwa -
Rushdie has reported that he still receives a "sort of Valentine's card" from Iran each year on 14 February letting him know the country has not forgotten the vow to kill him and has jokingly referred it as "my unfunny Valentine" in a reference to the song "My Funny Valentine". He said, "It's reached the point where it's a piece of rhetoric rather than a real threat." Despite the threats on Rushdie personally, he said that his family has never been threatened, and that his mother, who lived in Pakistan during the later years of her life, even received outpourings of support. Rushdie himself has been prevented from entering Pakistan, however.
...
Rushdie came from a liberal Muslim family although he now identifies as an atheist. In a 2006 interview with PBS, Rushdie called himself a "hardline atheist".
In 1989, in an interview following the fatwa, Rushdie said that he was in a sense a lapsed Muslim, though "shaped by Muslim culture more than any other", and a student of Islam. In another interview the same year, he said, "My point of view is that of a secular human being. I do not believe in supernatural entities, whether Christian, Jewish, Muslim or Hindu."
In 1990, in the "hope that it would reduce the threat of Muslims acting on the fatwa to kill him," he issued a statement claiming he had renewed his Muslim faith, had repudiated the attacks on Islam made by characters in his novel and was committed to working for better understanding of the religion across the world. However, Rushdie later said that he was only "pretending".
You think there aren’t many Muslims like Rushdie who wouldn’t get a kick out of satire at Mohammed or Islam’s expense? They’d positively relish in it, because in spite of Western portrayals of Muslims as backwards suicide bombers primed to go off at the slightest provocation, they’re generally not all that different from their Western progressive counterparts who are primed to go off at the slightest provocation
I think your forgetting that Salman Rusdie is living under constant threats from Islamic fundamentalists due to to his views. The fact that the likes of Geert Wilders and Salman Rusdie need 24/7 armed protection shows how progressive Islam is.0 -
After Ayatollah Khomeini issued the fatwa on Salman, he was put under 24/7 armed guard. He lived under the shadow of this protection for many years, and it was during this time he mentioned as a joke the card reminding him of the Fatwa calling for his death. But for sure, inwardly he was not laughing at it... and rightly so. The fatwa was issued in Iran, but had world wide validity.... meaning that each and every Muslim in the world was obligated to kill him if they could. This eventually led to him publicly stating that he was again embracing Islam, and was again a practicing Muslim, after denying it for years. He did this out of fear,,,,,grinding him down, year after year. Not funny. He is now in America, and while I don't know for sure, I would imagine that he has personal protection there too. Sorry to disagree with you, but the perceived Muslim suicide bombers that you mention, primed to go off at the slightest provocation, are running on a much shorter fuse than their western counter parts.One eyed Jack wrote: »I’ve done my research on the subject and that’s why I never denied that it happened. I said something along the lines of more people have claimed they can’t make jokes about Mohammed than people who have actually died for making jokes about Mohammed.
Remember Salman Rushdie? He makes jokes about his own fatwa -
Rushdie has reported that he still receives a "sort of Valentine's card" from Iran each year on 14 February letting him know the country has not forgotten the vow to kill him and has jokingly referred it as "my unfunny Valentine" in a reference to the song "My Funny Valentine". He said, "It's reached the point where it's a piece of rhetoric rather than a real threat." Despite the threats on Rushdie personally, he said that his family has never been threatened, and that his mother, who lived in Pakistan during the later years of her life, even received outpourings of support. Rushdie himself has been prevented from entering Pakistan, however.
...
Rushdie came from a liberal Muslim family although he now identifies as an atheist. In a 2006 interview with PBS, Rushdie called himself a "hardline atheist".
In 1989, in an interview following the fatwa, Rushdie said that he was in a sense a lapsed Muslim, though "shaped by Muslim culture more than any other", and a student of Islam. In another interview the same year, he said, "My point of view is that of a secular human being. I do not believe in supernatural entities, whether Christian, Jewish, Muslim or Hindu."
In 1990, in the "hope that it would reduce the threat of Muslims acting on the fatwa to kill him," he issued a statement claiming he had renewed his Muslim faith, had repudiated the attacks on Islam made by characters in his novel and was committed to working for better understanding of the religion across the world. However, Rushdie later said that he was only "pretending".
You think there aren’t many Muslims like Rushdie who wouldn’t get a kick out of satire at Mohammed or Islam’s expense? They’d positively relish in it, because in spite of Western portrayals of Muslims as backwards suicide bombers primed to go off at the slightest provocation, they’re generally not all that different from their Western progressive counterparts who are primed to go off at the slightest provocation0 -
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPLfv9umERU![[Deleted User]](/applications/dashboard/design/images/defaulticon.png)
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