Tourists or Refugees

Franz Von Peppercorn · 12-11-2018 5:12pm

Odhinn wrote: »

The Brits aren't offering it to that specific family. I'm afraid there's nothing there to back up "most European states have policies against settling Christians and other minorities from these states".

There's already a small community of Ahmadi muslims from pakistan in this country.

I see. So you think the British not allowing one Christian in is evidence that they are leaving all the others in. This is policy on Christians in general.

I welcome the ahmadis. A fairly discriminated group but again I doubt all asylum seekers from Pakistan are from minority groups.

mammajamma · 12-11-2018 5:12pm

Odhinn wrote: »

Surprising - you've examples?

You were asking for examples in the thread I created (that was subsequently closed, because , you know, some reason).

I would have been happy to provide links to the tasc report, the government policy reports and guidance plans etc.

I asked you to make a point first of all, rather than simply demanding things for the sake of muddying debate. Too bad, eh? It seems to be a working, effective tactic to prevent discourse.

Conservative · 12-11-2018 5:20pm

Decisions on these people should be made within 3 months of arrival, if appeals have to be considered (lawfully), a further 3 months and send them packing. We don't owe these people anything and we certainly dont need any more people to produce the gang members/terrorists of the future.

The people enabling this will hopefully be prosecuted in future.

Odhinn · 12-11-2018 5:20pm

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I see. So you think the British not allowing one Christian in is evidence that they are leaving all the others in. This is policy on Christians in general.

And you have some source that confirms this?

mammajamma wrote:

I asked you to make a point first of all, rather than simply demanding things for the sake of muddying debate. Too bad, eh? It seems to be a working, effective tactic to prevent discourse.

My point is that you had no factual basis for your statement.

Rubberchikken · 12-11-2018 5:27pm

I dont think its begrudgery to question the number of refugees and even the sex and age of these people.

This country cant manage the population we have already. Why take on the expense and unknown issues bringing in these people.

What id like to know is how close these centres will be to the homes of the 'good hearted ' .

mammajamma · 12-11-2018 5:31pm

Odhinn wrote: »

And you have some source that confirms this?

My point is that you had no factual basis for your statement.

Just asking questions, huh?

Sure why make a point when you can ask questions disingenuously based on preconceived notions.

But mission was accomplished anyway, it was all shut down, back to normality and pleading ignorance to everything.

"the sky is blue"

"WHERES THE PROOF!!??!!"

topper75 · 12-11-2018 5:32pm

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Thankfully the USA didn't say the same when the famine ships arrived from Ireland . Or the ships or trains arrived with Jews fleeing the war to other countries

The U.S. then was a big empty land needing workers. I think you credit them with a little too much sympathy perhaps in relation to our famine. Canada/Aus the very same. UK cities also needed workers. Nobody got indefinite handouts or got fed and found for 10 years on Ellis island. Of that I'm sure. If they processed you and you weren't up to scratch, you went back on the very same boat.

The jews, being the real deal, got out to where they could be out of nazi reach. They weren't shopping around for a 'refugee wage'.

Odhinn · 12-11-2018 5:34pm

mammajamma wrote: »

Just asking questions, huh?

Sure why m(....................)!??!!"

Yep. And seeing as you had and have no answer, I have mine.

mammajamma · 12-11-2018 5:40pm

Odhinn wrote: »

Yep. And seeing as you had and have no answer, I have mine.

I stated, more or less, "the excuse that irish people need imigrants to prop up a falling birthrate" was extremely common.

And I stand by that, I have heard it so very many times.

You trot along, just asking questions, looking for "sources and proof".

Its a straw man argument (not that it even approaches argument), because it is nearly impossible to prove. You were asking a load of trollocks, in other words.

Lets stick it on the other foot. If its so obvious, and so easily disproved....why don't YOU provide "sources and proof" to the contrary?

Go ahead, don't tell me you don't have time, don't duck out of it. Just simply provide the proof, thereby proving that you are genuine and have solid reasons to disbelieve my point.

Go for it.

mammajamma · 12-11-2018 5:50pm

*crickets*

Odhinn · 12-11-2018 6:09pm

mammajamma wrote: »

I stated, more or less, "the excuse that irish people need imigrants to prop up a falling birthrate" was extremely common.

And I stand by that, I have heard it so very many times.

You trot along, just asking questions, looking for "sources and proof".
..............

Yeah, imagine that. We don't have a falling birthrate. Here's the proof
https://www.thejournal.ie/eu-birth-rate-3488369-Jul2017/

Working class heroes · 12-11-2018 6:28pm

There are two hotels in Wicklow town. The Grand and the Bridge.

You also have Tinakilly House about a mile outside the town.

There is a very vocal “Nimbyism” group in the town and I will take great joy in watching the steam flow from their ears if this proposal goes ahead.

mynamejeff · 12-11-2018 6:40pm

Working class heroes wrote: »

There are two hotels in Wicklow town. The Grand and the Bridge.

You also have Tinakilly House about a mile outside the town.

There is a very vocal “Nimbyism” group in the town and I will take great joy in watching the steam flow from their ears if this proposal goes ahead.

the bridge tavern is not a hotel , its a pub it has 3 or 4 rooms upstairs at most.

Tinakilly house is a very old county house type of place and entirely unsuitable for full time occupancy

your getting very excited about upsetting other people , you should get that looked at

Working class heroes · 12-11-2018 6:46pm

mynamejeff wrote: »

the bridge tavern is not a hotel , its a pub it has 3 or 4 rooms upstairs at most.

Tinakilly house is a very old county house type of place and entirely unsuitable for full time occupancy

your getting very excited about upsetting other people , you should get that looked at

The Bridge is a Hotel.
Tinakilly house is a hotel.
These are facts.
And yes you are correct about me getting very excited. Can’t wait. Karma and all that.....

sasta le · 12-11-2018 6:49pm

Chinasea wrote: »

It's about time we started to help and take a share. To-date we have certainly been extremely shy.

Sad to see so much begrudgery.

Look at Balbriggan how well that is working out

mammajamma · 12-11-2018 6:52pm

Odhinn wrote: »

Yeah, imagine that. We don't have a falling birthrate. Here's the proof
https://www.thejournal.ie/eu-birth-rate-3488369-Jul2017/

First of all, do you know the difference between "increase" and "decrease"?

Second of all, that wasn't the question I asked. But you already know that.

I asked you to do exactly what you asked ME to do, and that was to PROVE that the sentiment of replacing falling population rates with immigrants is NOT a popular talking point.

You cant, just as much as I cant. An absolutely pointless exchange, starting with your asinine "questions". Waste of time.

Heres something to while away on, I think most people don't like murder. Now why don't you gather some verifiable sources on that? Academic journals and policy papers or GTFO? Oh, you mightn't do it because its a complete and utter waste of time, an observed truth that doesn't need to be verified. Maybe.

mynamejeff · 12-11-2018 6:54pm

Working class heroes wrote: »

The Bridge is a Hotel.
Tinakilly house is a hotel.
These are facts.
And yes you are correct about me getting very excited. Can’t wait. Karma and all that.....

well 3 or 4 small rooms ment for people down for a night or two doesn't make a hotel
the bridge is the only affordable venue in the town for events

Why do you want this to happen so badly ? you seem so bitter about something

Odhinn · 12-11-2018 6:57pm

mammajamma wrote: »

First of all, do you know the difference between "increase" and "decrease"?

Second of all, that wasn't the question I asked. But you already know that.

I asked you to do exactly what you asked ME to do, and that was to PROVE that the sentiment of replacing falling population rates with immigrants is NOT a popular talking point.

You cant, just as much as I cant. An absolutely pointless exchange, starting with your asinine "questions". Waste of time.

Heres something to while away on, I think most people don't like murder. Now why don't you gather some verifiable sources on that? Academic journals and policy papers or GTFO? Oh, you mightn't do it because its a complete and utter waste of time, an observed truth that doesn't need to be verified. Maybe.

You were wrong, make your peace with it etc.

mammajamma · 12-11-2018 6:58pm

Odhinn wrote: »

You were wrong, make your peace with it etc.

Fair play to you

Trailerr · 12-11-2018 6:59pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

What has a war in Syria got to do with us??

I could tell you, but if i did you would call me a National socialist

Working class heroes · 12-11-2018 7:00pm

mynamejeff wrote: »

well 3 or 4 small rooms ment for people down for a night or two doesn't make a hotel
the bridge is the only affordable venue in the town for events

Why do you want this to happen so badly ? you seem so bitter about something

The op stated there was one hotel in the town. I was just clarifying.
Not fussed if it happens or not(probably won’t).
Not bitter at all. Just can’t wait for the steam!!

Trailerr · 12-11-2018 7:06pm

sheesh wrote: »

I apologise for bringing some reality into this bitchfest bu we do have international commitments to take some of these refugees.

we took the kosovars in in the 90s and they seem to fitted in just fine

Reality came into this "bitch fest " in december 2015 when a fake refugee drove an arctic through a Christmas Market at Bretischeid Platz in Berlin, beside the Gedaenknis Kirche, killing 12 people, leaving many horrifically injured who are still lying in a hospital on oxegen and machines,

ironically the people he killed were paying for his bed and board through their taxes
that is a fcukin lark

a_squirrelman · 12-11-2018 7:06pm

Jaysus. I'm just a lurker on this sight but the amount of dzopes on this thread is ridiculous. A few thousand refugees ain't gonna hurt no one. Get your gubberment to sort out their bad management and wasting of shed loads of money on administration/bureaucracy first and then complain about the refugees. Not accepting refugees won't fix any of your other problems.

mynamejeff · 12-11-2018 7:08pm

Working class heroes wrote: »

The op stated there was one hotel in the town. I was just clarifying.
Not fussed if it happens or not(probably won’t).
Not bitter at all. Just can’t wait for the steam!!

er you should probably have a look in the grand hotel , it already has ,

there is Brazilians Albanians and Georgians there as well as irish people who are being accommodated as emergency homeless from Dublin every week short term .

by the way the op was right , there is only one hotel in the town , like i said the bridge is a pub and tinakilly hse is not in the town

mammajamma · 12-11-2018 7:22pm

a_squirrelman wrote: »

Jaysus. I'm just a lurker on this sight but the amount of dzopes on this thread is ridiculous. A few thousand refugees ain't gonna hurt no one. Get your gubberment to sort out their bad management and wasting of shed loads of money on administration/bureaucracy first and then complain about the refugees. Not accepting refugees won't fix any of your other problems.

This is an inherent flaw in some people, an inability to forecast and predict (a resounding inclination of higher-brained organisms, so to speak).

To use an analogy, there are people who notice rising damp in their home and decide to act on it immediately, knowing that it could and probably would become a much larger problem later.

Then there are those people who see no immediate problem. "sure its only the bathroom. Sure its only the downstairs. Sure its only half the house" and so on.

The problem is NOT a few thousand refugees, the problem is the direction and stated intent of the government, that there is no end in sight. In more general terms, the government have a stated goal of accommodating an extra million people in their 2040 plan.

That is a problem. So either you are the type of person that prevents problems, or the type of person that laments about them when its too late.

Odhinn · 12-11-2018 7:24pm

mammajamma wrote: »

This is an inherent flaw in some people, an inability to forecast and predict (a resounding inclination of higher-brained organisms, so to speak).

To use an analogy, there are people who notice rising damp in their home and decide to act on it immediately, knowing that it could and probably would become a much larger problem later.

Then there are those people who see no immediate problem. "sure its only the bathroom. Sure its only the downstairs. Sure its only half the house" and so on.

The problem is NOT a few thousand refugees, the problem is the direction and stated intent of the government, that there is no end in sight. In more general terms, the government have a stated goal of accommodating an extra million people in their 2040 plan.

That is a problem. So either you are the type of person that prevents problems, or the type of person that laments about them when its too late.

....because the population will grow in that 22 year time span. Shock.

Ray Palmer · 12-11-2018 7:27pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

Same in Roosky, Co. Leitrim. Another FG deal according to Roscommon People last week.

I watched the news on this and it had been closed 3 years. It was sitting there doing nothing

Having stayed there I can say I pity anyone who has to stay there long term. The town has nothing worth staying in to see.

Fann Linn · 12-11-2018 7:28pm

mynamejeff wrote: »

er you should probably have a look in the grand hotel , it already has ,

there is Brazilians Albanians and Georgians there as well as irish people who are being accommodated as emergency homeless from Dublin every week short term .

by the way the op was right , there is only one hotel in the town , like i said the bridge is a pub and tinakilly hse is not in the town

On 6.1 next.

Working class heroes · 12-11-2018 7:30pm

mynamejeff wrote: »

er you should probably have a look in the grand hotel , it already has ,

there is Brazilians Albanians and Georgians there as well as irish people who are being accommodated as emergency homeless from Dublin every week short term .

by the way the op was right , there is only one hotel in the town , like i said the bridge is a pub and tinakilly hse is not in the town

Thanks wasn’t aware of that. Great news. Diversity is a wonderful thing.

whisky_galore · 12-11-2018 7:36pm

Pretty obvious they are getting more for taking refugees.

Not like refugees are going to pull at the heart strings of some hotel owner.

mammajamma · 12-11-2018 7:40pm

Odhinn wrote: »

....because the population will grow in that 22 year time span. Shock.

Yes, all the fairies and leprechauns will come out of their stumps in the ground and reclaim their land!

Spontaneous people from nowhere, the magic people, the little people. Nothing to do with immigration at all! Oh no, not at all!

You're about as genuine as a Chinese made Italian suit.

Odhinn · 12-11-2018 7:43pm

mammajamma wrote: »

Yes, all the fairies and leprechauns will come out of their stumps in the ground and reclaim their land!

Spontaneous people from nowhere, the magic people, the little people. Nothing to do with immigration at all! Oh no, not at all!

You're about as genuine as a Chinese made Italian suit.

"Excluding the impact of immigration, Ireland had the highest rate of natural increase (an excess of births over deaths) in its population in the EU last year, at a time when many other countries are experiencing a decline."
https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/irelands-population-growth-five-times-eu-average-472747.html

mynamejeff · 12-11-2018 7:54pm

Working class heroes wrote: »

Thanks wasn’t aware of that. Great news. Diversity is a wonderful thing.

do you remember the warrens hostel in wicklow town when it was used for the same purpose ?

weldoninhio · 12-11-2018 7:59pm

Working class heroes wrote: »

Thanks wasn’t aware of that. Great news. Diversity is a wonderful thing.

Why is diversity wonderful??

Pretzill · 12-11-2018 8:01pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

I watched the news on this and it had been closed 3 years. It was sitting there doing nothing

Having stayed there I can say I pity anyone who has to stay there long term. The town has nothing worth staying in to see.

I think it is a ridiculous thing to bring refugees/economic migrants to Roosky, whatever, about Wicklow Town (at least there are services there, and things to do) Roosky is a small town with the only activities possibly fishing or boating on the Shannon :rolleyes: or perhaps long country walks!!

And to add insult to the money that's literally thrown at Direct Provision the refugees will have to be bussed out of the town possibly on a daily basis, most probably to bigger hubs like Carrick on Shannon for their activities - when people who have lived rurally in these small towns and their environs have never had the luxury of public transport -

mammajamma · 12-11-2018 8:04pm

Odhinn wrote: »

"Excluding the impact of immigration, Ireland had the highest rate of natural increase (an excess of births over deaths) in its population in the EU last year, at a time when many other countries are experiencing a decline."
https://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/irelands-population-growth-five-times-eu-average-472747.html

Well I'm getting different numbers from the CSO, natural birth rate declined in both 2017 and 2018 so far. Death rates increased in both 2017 and 2018.

So theres something very fishy about a newspaper article that claims precisely the opposite, while also going to the extent to point out "not due to immigration".

Something is completely wrong with this picture. Feel free to have a look at the numbers yourself. https://www.cso.ie/multiquicktables/quickTables.aspx?id=vsa02_vsa09_vsa18

Smells very fishy, to be perfectly honest. Fake news territory.

And besides, as usual, common sense prevails. How many generations are you talking about between now and 2040? How many irish people would need to be going at it to pump out an EXTRA million people?

Nah, theres a narrative here that doesn't make sense on a common sense level, not to mention statistically reported level.

Odhinn · 12-11-2018 8:11pm

mammajamma wrote: »

Well I'm getting different numbers from the CSO, natural birth rate declined in both 2017 and 2018 so far. Death rates increased in both 2017 and 2018.

..........................l.

The CSO egs to differ
"During the most recent inter-censal period 2011 to 2016
natural increase has continued to be the main driver of
population growth in Ireland. "
https://www.cso.ie/en/media/csoie/newsevents/documents/census2016summaryresultspart1/Census2016SummaryPart1.pdf

Ray Palmer · 12-11-2018 8:18pm

Pretzill wrote: »

I think it is a ridiculous thing to bring refugees/economic migrants to Roosky, whatever, about Wicklow Town (at least there are services there, and things to do) Roosky is a small town with the only activities possibly fishing or boating on the Shannon :rolleyes: or perhaps long country walks!!

And to add insult to the money that's literally thrown at Direct Provision the refugees will have to be bussed out of the town possibly on a daily basis, most probably to bigger hubs like Carrick on Shannon for their activities - when people who have lived rurally in these small towns and their environs have never had the luxury of public transport -

Transport is very simple when it is to one place a particular time. There isn't housing by all the services

Mr. teddywinkles · 12-11-2018 8:19pm

pablohoney87 wrote: »

One more time. These people are not being housed anywhere near the housing crisis. They are being placed in towns Irish people don't want to relocate to.

Until Irish people are being turned down homes in these towns because they are being used to house refugees your point is moot.

Cost cost cost

pablohoney87 · 12-11-2018 8:21pm

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Cost cost cost

Wrong wrong wrong.

Working class heroes · 12-11-2018 8:23pm

weldoninhio wrote: »

Why is diversity wonderful??

It would be a boring world without diversity. Did you ever eat in Pings? The Indian restaurant at the Mall, maybe the Indian at the SV car park? Nice Italian or two in Wicklow too.
Or would you rather the old hairy bacon and stinky cabbage?

Trailerr · 12-11-2018 8:25pm

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

I must have missed the lead story on the Six One about literally every single Irish person being housed, fed and watered.

the best one is the minorities craic, we are th effing minority
there are only 500 million white people, who are not having babies
there are 5.9 billion others and they are growing at a phenomenal rate,
there are no more white countries
limited resources

Working class heroes · 12-11-2018 8:27pm

mynamejeff wrote: »

do you remember the warrens hostel in wicklow town when it was used for the same purpose ?

Which one was the Warrens. The Simon run one?

Odhinn · 12-11-2018 8:28pm

Working class heroes wrote: »

It would be a boring world without diversity. Did you ever eat in Pings? The Indian restaurant at the Mall, maybe the Indian at the SV car park? Nice Italian or two in Wicklow too.
Or would you rather the old hairy bacon and stinky cabbage?

He prefers the spice bag, the batter burger, the spice burger - the food of our fathers and predecessors.

Working class heroes · 12-11-2018 8:30pm

Spoiler Alert wrote: »

And gang rape too. Odd how this third world crime is suddenly normal in multi cult paradises like Britain, Sweden, Germany, France etc

Ah go one ya kidder you....

Fann Linn · 12-11-2018 8:32pm

I await in anticipation for the views of Patww on this upcoming invasion of his county town.
ðŸ˜€ðŸ˜€ðŸ˜€ðŸ˜€

mynamejeff · 12-11-2018 8:35pm

Working class heroes wrote: »

Which one was the Warrens. The Simon run one?

it was where the simon one is now

in the mid 2000s it was a hostel for refugees ,
it did not go well. constant problems with thieving, fights, drugs and some guy from north Africa grabbed a young girl coming from east glendalough school , turned out he had done the same thing in tralee and was moved because of it.

it was only slightly worse than the Simon is now , 4 overdoses deaths at least since it opened

Working class heroes · 12-11-2018 8:38pm

mynamejeff wrote: »

it was where the simon one is now

in the mid 2000s it was a hostel for refugees ,
it did not go well. constant problems with thieving, fights, drugs and some guy from north Africa grabbed a young girl coming from east glendalough school , turned out he had done the same thing in tralee and was moved because of it.

it was only slightly worse than the Simon is now , 4 overdoses deaths at least since it opened

Right ok. Take your word on that. Not from the town but know it fairly well.
I thought the Simon run entities only had one overdose?

Galwayguy35 · 12-11-2018 8:40pm

Chinasea wrote: »

It's about time we started to help and take a share. To-date we have certainly been extremely shy.

Sad to see so much begrudgery.

We are taking in way more than the EU asked us to and that's not including the 200 lads from Calais the Yankee minister is flying in here.

Sure maybe we will take in all North Africa and the Middle East to keep you happy.

Geuze · 12-11-2018 9:00pm

sheesh wrote: »

I apologise for bringing some reality into this bitchfest bu we do have international commitments to take some of these refugees.

These aren't refugees.

They are asylum-seekers, i.e. people applying to become refugees.

Tourists or Refugees

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