Dental implants

Nickindublin · 01-11-2012 3:21pm #1

Looking to get dental implants done. Have been looking at Internet closely to see what is best options and getting a little confused. I have given approximately cost of 2200 if it's one implant and 1750 if it's the 3 I probably need. What should I look out for in dentists qualifications and prices?

Also people who have had implants done and like or unlike the work done can you pm name of dental clinics. Thanks

Eseram · 02-11-2012 9:24pm

Hi,

I am just back from Hungary where my mother went for treatment.Before we went i was highly skeptical of traveling for dental work.
Well how wrong was i ! they were extremely professional and the care was exceptional.My mother is getting 4 implants and 20 crowns done.She had her operation for preparation for the implants and she will return in 4 months.They even escorted her back to the apartment and filled me in on her after care.I even took the opportunity to have my teeth cleaned and an x-ray done for 45Euro!.
I can't recommend it high enough!. The choice is up to you but it is such good value! also the air tickets and accommodation is so cheap.
I just thought i would share my experience over there because i was so doubtful before.

helimachoptor · 02-11-2012 10:06pm

Eseram wrote: »

Well how wrong was i ! they were extremely professional and the care was exceptional.My mother is getting 4 implants and 20 crowns done.She had her operation for preparation for the implants and she will return in 4 months.They even escorted her back to the apartment and filled me in on her after care.I even took the opportunity to have my teeth cleaned and an x-ray done for 45Euro!.
I can't recommend it high enough!. The choice is up to you but it is such good value! also the air tickets and accommodation is so cheap.
I just thought i would share my experience over there because i was so doubtful before.

Just complete and utter bonkerness.

Eseram do a search here for threads on this.

That great deal is going to be very costly.

Susie564 · 02-11-2012 10:07pm

Eseram wrote: »

Hi,

I am just back from Hungary where my mother went for treatment.Before we went i was highly skeptical of traveling for dental work.
Well how wrong was i ! they were extremely professional and the care was exceptional.My mother is getting 4 implants and 20 crowns done.She had her operation for preparation for the implants and she will return in 4 months.They even escorted her back to the apartment and filled me in on her after care.I even took the opportunity to have my teeth cleaned and an x-ray done for 45Euro!.
I can't recommend it high enough!. The choice is up to you but it is such good value! also the air tickets and accommodation is so cheap.
I just thought i would share my experience over there because i was so doubtful before.

Uh-oh

Dianthus · 02-11-2012 10:23pm

Eseram wrote: »

Hi,
I am just back from Hungary
they were extremely professional and the care was exceptional.My mother is getting 4 implants and 20 crowns done.

Lets assume your mum originally had 32 teeth, the full dentition.
So she's missing four--> 4 implants.
That leaves her with 28 natural teeth. And 20 of these are now crowned? Leaving her with only 8 of her "own", intact, teeth?
This is really extensive dental treatment, and I would strongly recommend that the patient attend a prosthodontist as opposed to a general dentist, wherever treatment is being undertaken, here or in Hungary.
The longterm maintenance& associated costs are also relevant.
6monthly checkups& hygienist appointments.
Statistically, 20% of crowned teeth will need a root canal treatment over a 10 year period- if your mum has 20 crowns, this is an average of 4 root canals in the future.
Forget about the money aspect, the tooth "bank" is seriously in the red.

Oral Surgeon · 02-11-2012 10:44pm

Eseram wrote: »

Hi,

I am just back from Hungary where my mother went for treatment.Before we went i was highly skeptical of traveling for dental work.
Well how wrong was i ! they were extremely professional and the care was exceptional.My mother is getting 4 implants and 20 crowns done.She had her operation for preparation for the implants and she will return in 4 months.They even escorted her back to the apartment and filled me in on her after care.I even took the opportunity to have my teeth cleaned and an x-ray done for 45Euro!.
I can't recommend it high enough!. The choice is up to you but it is such good value! also the air tickets and accommodation is so cheap.
I just thought i would share my experience over there because i was so doubtful before.

How about you give us all the big recommendation when her work is tried and tested??
You must be easily pleased giving the big up to the clinic before seeing or using the end result, I wish all my patients were like you....

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 03-11-2012 9:26am

Complex dental treatment cannot be done properly in short time periods. 4 implants and 20 crowns sounds like the usual gross over treatment to me to make up for low unit pricing. It would take me 15 separate visits over a 6-18 month period to carry that out and the aftercare would be extensive. The problems with high speed dental tourism are self evident to somebody that knows nothing about dentistry, if it could be done properly that fast we would all do it that way. Initial improvements in tooth colour and numbers of teeth are no indication of quality. Just tell your mum to make sure they don't join all the teeth togeghr, that the usual thing, and defo no joining teeth to Implants.

mark renton · 03-11-2012 9:40am

Quincy Teeny Stabilizer wrote: »

Complex dental treatment cannot be done properly in short time periods. 4 implants and 20 crowns sounds like the usual gross over treatment to me to make up for low unit pricing. It would take me 15 separate visits over a 6-18 month period to carry that out and the aftercare would be extensive. The problems with high speed dental tourism are self evident to somebody that knows nothing about dentistry, if it could be done properly that fast we would all do it that way. Initial improvements in tooth colour and numbers of teeth are no indication of quality. Just tell your mum to make sure they don't join all the teeth togeghr, that the usual thing, and defo no joining teeth to Implants.

How much would u charge for the work listed in the op?

Dianthus · 03-11-2012 11:43am

john47832 wrote: »

How much would u charge for the work listed in the op?

I'd guess about the price of a good quality car?
Average crown lasts 10-15 years, if planned& executed well initially& maintained ("serviced"!) regularly, they can last far longer.
Tbh, the only patients I've seen undergoing this huge volume of work are those with a history of severe dental neglect, or those with body dysmorphic disorder. Anyone else has been overtreated.

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 03-11-2012 12:52pm

john47832 wrote: »

How much would u charge for the work listed in the op?

If it could be done properly in the same number of visits as the high speed tourism clinics (2 or 3) and use really cheap lab work I would do it for the same price as them. Infact they probably make more profit than I would charging twice the price.

I suppose the fact that I would rarely do 24 restorations (lower incisor crowns are IMHO a bad idea most of the time) would mean I would be doing so much at all, so probably around the same amount of money in real terms. More dentistry is not better, you want as little dental work as possible. I remember a RTE program where a woman in the audience was delighted she had 20 root canals for cheap, nobody needs 20 root canals and if you did there are bigger issues going on. Be under no illusion, by the time you fly out, pay hotels, eat, pay for the dental work you are still spending 8-15 thousand. it's not cheap in money terms.

Nickindublin · 04-11-2012 1:16pm

Eseram wrote: »

Hi,

I am just back from Hungary where my mother went for treatment.Before we went i was highly skeptical of traveling for dental work.
Well how wrong was i ! they were extremely professional and the care was exceptional.My mother is getting 4 implants and 20 crowns done.She had her operation for preparation for the implants and she will return in 4 months.They even escorted her back to the apartment and filled me in on her after care.I even took the opportunity to have my teeth cleaned and an x-ray done for 45Euro!.
I can't recommend it high enough!. The choice is up to you but it is such good value! also the air tickets and accommodation is so cheap.
I just thought i would share my experience over there because i was so doubtful before.

Thanks for your recommendation Eseram but I will be getting the work done in Ireland as I want to know if something goes wrong I can get it fixed easily. And also I prefer to give my money to the Irish economy.

Now I have been looking around a bit getting prices mainly in Dublin south city of 1600/1700 for multiple implants. And a place in cork for 1200. This is all before tax relief. I have a total budget of 6000 before tax relief so these prices will be fine as X rays and other bits will add to it.

My next question is about the implants themselves. I have been told they will be cortex implants, Nobel biocare or alpha bio implants placed. I don't know much about these companies so any imput would be appreciated.

I have not visited a dentist yet as I want to make sure all is within budget. I'm hoping to start procedure by end of year. So I'm doing my initial work by contacting dental clinics first.

cf52 · 04-11-2012 1:35pm

This is a long-ish post for which I apologise in advance:

Pardon the pun, but may I inject a little sensibility into this whole affair?
Rule No 1 : NEVER crown a tooth
Rule No 2: Read Rule No.1

So, here we are with a dental professional planning - if one is to attach credence to the poster - to provide 20 crowns ( forget the implants for now, the whole post looks curious to say the least...) to the mouth of a person whom he has never seen, has no knowledge of the history of, past treatments provided, the state of the bite, jaw relation, root condition, nerve status, general healt, to mention but a few components on the check list of assessment.
So what is a crown?......A crown is the planned and deliberate destruction of a tooth , is irreversible, as in there is no going back , it is one of the worst risks that a tooth can be subjected to, for various reasons, as my fellow docs will know.
To make matters worse, the trend towards all white crowns results in these teeth having to suffer 50% nerve disease within 5 years ( data from Guys) : and the typical scenario is for Mrs or Mr IrishPerson walking into a hotel room in some town in Ireland, meet a doc she has never "attended" before, and 3 minutes later she has a price quote for dental procedures to be carried out 700 miles away?
I don't think so.
Would you let someone do that to your body?

All over the world today, with todays superb filling materials, and with good skill set from a caring dentist, practically any tooth can be filled exceedingly well and last a long time. Even those gigantic dirty old metal fillings can be rebuilt using state of the art modern white tooth coloured fillings.
For a fraction of the cost of a Hungarian crown .
Of course, you have to assume that even those dirty old black metal fillings actually do need to come out and be replaced. In many many cases, these old fillings are doing quite well thank you very much, and at worst, ok, replace them, at best, ok, polish them up so they shine a bit more....
But our Hungarian/Polish/Who cares doc, send on a mission to make money, no relationship with the stranger in front of him/her, a mercenary on the money trail in short, has our unsuspecting patient on the next Ryanair, and actually "gives " the patient gifts , as long as Paddy has MORE work done, even putting the person up in an hotel.... and on it goes......do you really think that there is not the whiff of something funny going on here, because there is...
I start off pretty much each broken tooth with a simple demand of myself :" How can I get this tooth sorted with minimum amount of aggresive, invasive dentistry, to the maximum benefit of the tooth , function, longevity , my time, and the patients hopes and pocket.
When is the last time a Dentist Tourist ( aka the Hungarian/Polish/Whoever) DENTIST actually asked someone sitting in a hotel room that question?
Let me say it straight : the moral compass of our so called colleagues in Eastern Europe is highly suspect, when treatment options are chosen by their colleagues who visit Ireland to canvas treatment to be done back in Hungary, which maximize the money footfall of the practice back home in Hungary.
Long span bridges , opaque done in 2 days crowns, cheap as chips to make, poor assessment, poor fitting, poor clinical decision making, wrong options, wrong ( read cheap) material used........yet to the unsuspecting patient, they got such a great deal........
But let me say now, they did not get a great deal at all, and here why:
I have quite a few East European patients on my books for one reason or another right now - largely because they have preferred to have brace work finished here , can't get over how reasonable the fee is ( this is not a canvas, Moderator) , are very happy, and have told me , when I asked, the hourly wage back home
€1.25 an hour Maximum €2 an hour
That's 4 -6 times the difference between Ireland and Hungary/Poland /Slovakia....don't take my word for it, go and look.
In REAL terms, when you hand Dr Ivan your €300/€350 for that crown, he can walk out into the Hungarian High Street and buy €1200-1500 worth of goods
And you wonder what they come over here for! Altruism?...no...

Look, Minimal Invasive Dentistry is the ONLY show in town
If you , as a patient, want to know what to do, do yourself a favour: ask one, two, three dentists here to give you an opinion on what you need, to include your ladder of treatment options ( as in your choices , as you have choices. Doing nothing is a choice, an excellent choice is there is nothing to do, instead of being told by a total stranger that you " qualify" for 8 crowns at a special price etc etc....
And if you do need crowns, either due to continued breakage of a filled tooth or discolouration, see what the quote is. I read too many stories of a single quote from a local dentist and next thing, the departure gate beckons.

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 04-11-2012 3:12pm

Nickindublin wrote: »

Thanks for your recommendation Eseram but I will be getting the work done in Ireland as I want to know if something goes wrong I can get it fixed easily. And also I prefer to give my money to the Irish economy.

Now I have been looking around a bit getting prices mainly in Dublin south city of 1600/1700 for multiple implants. And a place in cork for 1200. This is all before tax relief. I have a total budget of 6000 before tax relief so these prices will be fine as X rays and other bits will add to it.

My next question is about the implants themselves. I have been told they will be cortex implants, Nobel biocare or alpha bio implants placed. I don't know much about these companies so any imput would be appreciated.

I have not visited a dentist yet as I want to make sure all is within budget. I'm hoping to start procedure by end of year. So I'm doing my initial work by contacting dental clinics first.

Nick, stay away form traveling dentist that only fly in every so often. Nobel bio care own alpha bio, but alphas are budget implants. I have never heard of cortex Implants ( which is worrying) it important you can easily get part I the future so use a common Implant system. We talk of the big 5 but really there is a big 8 or so. A. Good clinic will not offer a range of implants only one. Why would you offer inferior Implants except to save money. 6k is plenty of money, go to an implant specialist if you want to get the best results on average.

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 04-11-2012 3:26pm

cf52 wrote: »

Look, Minimal Invasive Dentistry is the ONLY show in town.

Nope, there is no one show in prosthodontics, there are indications for adhesive dentistry, fixed prosthetics, Implants, crowns, veneers etc...each has a place. Being conservative is not doing what requires least preparation it is doing what will give the patient the result they are after for the longest time possible at the minimal expense of tooth structure. This 20 crowns rubbish seen with high speed dental tourism is one extreme which need to be stamped out.

The endodontic treatment of vital crown abutments is more like 5-15%, feltons study form insurance data in the us is the gold standard study on that. Over 500,000 restorations followed. 50% would be alarming and does not gel with clinical experience think the chaps in guys need to buy sharper burs and turn on the water spray

Nickindublin · 04-11-2012 4:23pm

Quincy Teeny Stabilizer wrote: »

Nick, stay away form traveling dentist that only fly in every so often. Nobel bio care own alpha bio, but alphas are budget implants. I have never heard of cortex Implants ( which is worrying) it important you can easily get part I the future so use a common Implant system. We talk of the big 5 but really there is a big 8 or so. A. Good clinic will not offer a range of implants only one. Why would you offer inferior Implants except to save money. 6k is plenty of money, go to an implant specialist if you want to get the best results on average.

The Dental Clinic I have looked at in Dublin are irish based dentists. I have no intention of using travelling dentists or going abroad for work. I will definitely be getting the work done in Dublin by a dentist based here. So Quincy Teeny Stabilizer do you recommend Nobel Bio? Thanks for your help.

cf52 · 04-11-2012 4:41pm

Er, the Guys chap is head of the Pros post grad programme, and, for the record, he doesn't use a high speed, he's got a loely W I doubt he'd appreciate the advice you offer.
I wouldn't be in a hurry quoting endo done on insurance claims as a barometer. I am quoting the studies done in dental hospitals. If you are going to subject a tooth to an emax, lovely as they are, at least place all in one on immediately after the prep.
The vast majority of endo is done on middle aged people with restorations, and that also includes large fillings btw. Pulps become anoxic. Ask Eoin Mullane!

Sure, there are indications for everything you describe, and I agree with you.
That isn't really the point though....the facts are - and I'm a little surprised that you haven't supported me more - that these interlopers from abroad have no agenda other than the pursuit of money , with no regard for conservation or solutions that don't do anything other than keep their own lab intrays full. I call it making the patient fund the bank account.
Minimal invasive dentistry is here , it is now, it is the right thing to do . For example, would you yourself prefer a starburst bevel technique on a large anterior restoration with Venus Pearl shades, or your incisor cut to accomodate a pfm or whatever? A huge modb is minimally invasive if it's done in composite , a crown on the same tooth may well have been indicated 30 years ago, but the game has changed. If I was a patient, I'd like to know that well, the doc has had to fill this one three times, and ok, now I actually do need the crown. That's what I'm saying. Sure the crown is the right solution here, but you know what - a huge amount of people are being missold treatment by these guys. It is outrageous.

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 04-11-2012 7:57pm

CF52 please keep the technobabble and name dropping to a minimum on the public forum, people could read this having been recommended crowns and think there are not a good solution, cause minimally invasive dentistry is the "only show in town". Also they will be fretting that their crowned tooth it going to go non vital half the time, which they will not. Reread you post and think about the statements you have made and how they will appear to the lay person?

I know David Bartlett well, and to say he is biased to adhesive dentistry is an understatement. However he mostly treats wear cases which are a totally different kettle if fish to the gross caries, multi surface fillings we see everyday. Didn't say he used a high speed BTW, and if I did tell him to turn up the water, I am sure it you be taken with the good humor it was said in

As for supporting you, I think you will find in the last 7 years moderating this forum I have made my views clear and posted dozens and dozens of botched tourism cases, no further replies necessary as this is off topic and I am considering tidying this thread as its a bit scattered and rambling.

Nick....Nobel biocare are a reputable company that make fine implants, they have launched crappy products like the nobel direct and the nobel active which is why I don't use them myself. However they are a good implant in the correct hands. However don't worry yourself about the implant system, no GOOD surgeon will use an inferior implant or offer you the choice of an inferior implant. A good implant operator will have chosen a system based on clinical research, restorative options and surface technology and predictability. Choose the operator not the restoration. Again see a periodontist or prosthodontist if your worried about the fine details of treatment.

Oral Surgeon · 04-11-2012 8:08pm

Quincy Teeny Stabilizer wrote: »

Again see a periodontist or prosthodontist if your worried about the fine details of treatment.

Ahem ahem......!!!!

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 04-11-2012 8:12pm

Oral Surgeon wrote: »

Ahem ahem......!!!!

Or an Oral Surgeon for that matter....:rolleyes:

paddyh117 · 05-11-2012 5:28pm

I don't understand the vast majority of what has been written in this thread, i do understand a couple of basic things though - travelling to Eastern Europe to get Dental Work, is IMO, madness!!

I recently got an implant done in Dublin, by whom I consider to be the best, most professional Dental Practice I've ever been to or heard of...I'll send you a PM OP,

best of luck!

res ipsa · 06-11-2012 1:33pm

Quincy Teeny Stabilizer wrote: »

Or an Oral Surgeon for that matter....:rolleyes:

Funny how 3 yr oral surgeons are registered specialists in Ireland but not in the states Canada or Australia. Whereas poor fitz would be a registered specialist in any country apart from the one he trained & lived in.Can't blame the guy for recommending the lost specialities in fairness.
I

Nickindublin · 06-11-2012 11:10pm

I recently got an implant done in Dublin, by whom I consider to be the best, most professional Dental Practice I've ever been to or heard of...I'll send you a PM OP,

best of luck![/QUOTE]

Thanks Paddy... Have a few appointments made so will make a decision soon...

Nickindublin · 21-11-2012 3:37pm

Have had a few appointments done and and a couple to go at this stage. So just going to give people who maybe thinking of getting implants my findings. Best thing is to shop around as they say but not just on price. I have found so far that prices are ranging from ok to the rediculous. I have also found that some dentists are also saying you need all this other work done which my own dentist( my own dentist does not place implants)has said I do not need and another dentist also said was not required. So before going ahead get a few different opinions( some dentists do free consultations for implants but expect to pay) and make sure you consult your own dentist. Also research the implant systems being offered to you. If the price is very cheap it probably means the implant system is also.

mickrick1 · 02-01-2013 2:03pm

paddyh117 wrote: »

I don't understand the vast majority of what has been written in this thread, i do understand a couple of basic things though - travelling to Eastern Europe to get Dental Work, is IMO, madness!!

I recently got an implant done in Dublin, by whom I consider to be the best, most professional Dental Practice I've ever been to or heard of...I'll send you a PM OP,

best of luck!

Hi Paddy - my wife is considering 2 implants and 4 crowns - could you PM me info on Dublin dental practise please. Thanks Mick.

Yozzerio · 10-02-2013 2:17am

paddyh117 wrote: »

I don't understand the vast majority of what has been written in this thread, i do understand a couple of basic things though - travelling to Eastern Europe to get Dental Work, is IMO, madness!!

I recently got an implant done in Dublin, by whom I consider to be the best, most professional Dental Practice I've ever been to or heard of...I'll send you a PM OP,

best of luck!

I have had two extractions performed 3 days ago in preparation for two implants and would really appreciate a pm as to what practice you used paddyh.
The practice I am currently using is charging €1800 per implant which is very reasonable and they use both Biohorizon and Straumman systems. I am new to the practice and feel comfortable with them but could do with some reassurance.

davo10 · 10-02-2013 9:09am

Yozzerio wrote: »

I have had two extractions performed 3 days ago in preparation for two implants and would really appreciate a pm as to what practice you used paddyh.
The practice I am currently using is charging €1800 per implant which is very reasonable and they use both Biohorizon and Straumman systems. I am new to the practice and feel comfortable with them but could do with some reassurance.

Yozzerio have the Straumann if you can, it will be more expensive than the Biohorizons but has been around longer, has more long term studies and is recognised as a better and more reliable implant system. They cost a bit more but as you will only want to do this once, have piece of mind that you had the better if the two placed.

cf52 · 10-02-2013 2:54pm

Biohorizons implants are good implants . We should all be placing Nobel Biocare implants if longevity is the issue...I've never read a critique putting Staumann out ahead of Biohorizons myself, but am open to correction.

Nickindublin · 11-02-2013 11:52am

Yozzerio wrote: »

I have had two extractions performed 3 days ago in preparation for two implants and would really appreciate a pm as to what practice you used paddyh.
The practice I am currently using is charging €1800 per implant which is very reasonable and they use both Biohorizon and Straumman systems. I am new to the practice and feel comfortable with them but could do with some reassurance.

That is about the best price you will get in Ireland for a good implant system. There is a clinic offering implants for 1200 in Dublin but I would suspect they are not of the same quality. The best overall price I have been quoted in Ireland is full price of 2400 for first implant then 15% off second and 30% off the remainder. If you are comfortable with the clinic that is very important factor to take into consideration too. I went to see a dentist last week and by the time i walked out the door i knew i would not be using his services. I was not one bit happy with the treatment plan IMO was not suitable for me at all.

btkm8unsl0w5r4 · 11-02-2013 4:21pm

Will everyone please get off the implant system bandwagon. Good Research has failed to show ANY difference between the success of implant systems and all systems that have research show similar success rates of around 95-97%. The factors involved are

1. The Person who does the job.
2. The person who does the job.
3. The person who does the job.
4. The patients healing.
5. The planning.

Yeah, you want a system you can get parts for in the future, has been manufactured to good tolerances and is properly sterilized and surface treated so a lot of the clone systems are out as the manufacturing is very slack,, but the fact is that implant companies keep trying to differentiate their products by changing the surfaces, which basically mean you cannot look at the long term data anymore as the surface has changed. Nobel brought out the atrocious Nobel Direct implant that was later removed, so big names are not a guarantee of quality. (Nobel own AlphaBio BTW, Alpha are the budget product). Personally I would run a mile from bioactive surfaces untill the long term data is out.

You have to know that the surgeon will pick the correct system for long term success. There should be now question of being offered different types of implants. Either they are fit for purpose or not. If one is inferior then its shouldn't be used, the patient has no role in choosing the implant system.

Nick....time to **** or get off the pot

you have seen enough dentists now.

mark renton · 11-02-2013 4:29pm

Sorry fitz, you seem to be overlooking 2 important points:
1 the importance of the person doing the job.
2 thats a very expensive piss

helimachoptor · 11-02-2013 5:41pm

Quincy Teeny Stabilizer wrote: »

1. The Person who does the job.
2. The person who does the job.
3. The person who does the job.
4. The patients healing.
5. The planning.

.

mark renton wrote: »

Sorry fitz, you seem to be overlooking 2 important points:
1 the importance of the person doing the job.
2 thats a very expensive piss

Hmmm overlooking you say... :pac:

Dental implants

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