Mother and babies homes information sealed for 30 years

John Hutton · 14-01-2021 1:14am

Antares35 wrote: »

I see you've been reading back over your own posts

As low as this contribution is, I suspect you have not quite hit the bottom of the barrel yet... do go on.

stockshares · 14-01-2021 1:14am

Here's a PDF of the report from Councillor Chris Pender

https://twitter.com/ChrisPenderKE/status/1349501780569317378?s=19

walshb · 14-01-2021 1:16am

Antares35 wrote: »

No, because you keep talking about a lack of evidence. You must think that's significant.

I am not talking about lack of evidence..

The report did mention that some claims could not be verified/proved..

Why is this difficult for you?

I am merely a poster. I had 0 to do with investigating the mother and baby homes..

I have already said that just because something g cannot be proved does not mean it did not happen. This applies to life..

jelem · 14-01-2021 1:16am

"The whole point of an investigation is to" WASH away the guilt of FF FG and CHURCH with Garda
and judiciary support since 1920s.
how many escape and dragged back by garda.
today heard pathetic excuse of Approx " its the citizens fault due to the time it was".
THE time was jackboot FF\FG with church and garda.
just remember it was brave women of ireland whom by train brought in birth control
and not overpaid ignorant\corrupt\liars and thieves GOVERNMENT politicians.
Yet the irish citizens in full belief of the lies continue up to today in large numbers
to support the FF and FG parties this through being kept ignorant and under the "boot"..

Jinglejangle69 · 14-01-2021 1:18am

Fann Linn wrote: »

It's Ireland.
Have ye heard about the new children's hospital?

Where did the 20 million go too?

BloodBath · 14-01-2021 1:19am

walshb wrote: »

This is exactly why these discussions are pointless..

People like you shouting down any alternative view that is not as strong in its church bashing..

There is no balance with this...

Claiming I am supporting the church because I am not coming down on them as heavy as you?

I'm not shouting down any alternative view. I'm dismayed that people in this day and age could still defend the church or try to pass the blame.

Church apologists make me sick. It's beyond being an apologist. It's up there with being a holocaust denier.

walshb · 14-01-2021 1:20am

jelem wrote: »

"The whole point of an investigation is to" WASH away the guilt of FF FG and CHURCH with Garda
and judiciary support since 1920s.
how many escape and dragged back by garda.
today heard pathetic excuse of Approx " its the citizens fault due to the time it was".
THE time was jackboot FF\FG with church and garda.
just remember it was brave women of ireland whom by train brought in birth control
and not overpaid ignorant\corrupt\liars and thieves GOVERNMENT politicians.
Yet the irish citizens in full belief of the lies continue up to today in large numbers
to support the FF and FG parties this through being kept ignorant and under the "boot"..

I take it you can back this up?

Labeling men and women who gave their time and effort to producing this exhaustive report as doing so under nefarious means?

This the talk is what is wrong in society. Sullying peoples names and character..

These people were under direction from democratically elected parties on this island to whitewash this??

Antares35 · 14-01-2021 1:20am

walshb wrote: »

I am not talking about lack of evidence..

The report did mention that some claims could not be verified/proved..

Why is this difficult for you?

I am merely a poster. I had 0 to do with investigating the mother and baby homes..

I have already said that just because something g cannot be proved does not mean it did not happen. This applies to life..

The only difficulty I have is trying to understand how people can still support the church. It's a soft endorsement of everything they've done. I can only hope they'll be bred out eventually.

I'm not interested in your life lessons...I've a "quote a day" calendar on my desk deeper than your posts

Antares35 · 14-01-2021 1:21am

walshb wrote: »

I take it you can back this up?

Labeling men and women who gave their time and effort to producing this exhaustive report as doing so under nefarious means?

This the talk is what is wrong in society. Sullying peoples names and character..

Yes, defamation is a more pertinent and pressing concern right now than seeking justice for the women who survived this atrocity.

AllForIt · 14-01-2021 1:22am

John Hutton wrote: »

What do you mean by "to themselves"?

If you mean that people must practice their religion in secret and never admit to it, then no.

If you mean that religions should not run, for the whole of society, stuff that should be provided by the government on a secular basis like the majority of public schools and public hospitals, then yes.

I believe in a pluralist society.

No of course I didn't mean in secret.

Organized religion is what I was getting at. Such that lead to mother baby homes.

I'm glad you believe in a pluralist society. Historically that was not the attitude and it certainly still isn't the attitude in Islamic counties to date.

political analyst · 14-01-2021 1:22am

Antares35 wrote: »

Yes, defamation is a more pertinent and pressing concern right now than seeking justice for the women who survived this atrocity.

So it's OK to accuse innocent people? :rolleyes:

walshb · 14-01-2021 1:23am

Antares35 wrote: »

Yes, defamation is a more pertinent and pressing concern right now than seeking justice for the women who survived this atrocity.

Well, you really have no standards or common decency with an attitude like this..

Antares35 · 14-01-2021 1:23am

political analyst wrote: »

So it's OK to accuse innocent people? :rolleyes:

Did I say that?

Antares35 · 14-01-2021 1:24am

walshb wrote: »

Well, you really have no standards or common decency with an attitude like this..

Oh no, the Catholic church sympathiser has a low opinion of me.

walshb · 14-01-2021 1:24am

BloodBath wrote: »

I'm not shouting down any alternative view. I'm dismayed that people in this day and age could still defend the church or try to pass the blame.

Church apologists make me sick. It's beyond being an apologist. It's up there with being a holocaust denier.

Nobody absolved the church for this.

walshb · 14-01-2021 1:24am

Antares35 wrote: »

Oh no, the Catholic church sympathiser has a low opinion of me.

Again, these type posts don’t do you any favours..

TheChizler · 14-01-2021 1:25am

Without specifically taking a side here, two people experiencing the exact same event can come away with completely different perceptions of what happened, shaped by their personalities, experiences before this point, mood, opinions, personal involvement, etc. Humans aren't machines, everything is processed subjectively. It would be wrong to say one of them is a liar when they recount the event, even when the two descriptions aren't compatible, as both could be telling what they honestly believe to be true.

Saying the evidence doesn't support your experience is absolutely not the same as calling you a liar, or even stating that you're not telling what you know to be the truth.

Antares35 · 14-01-2021 1:25am

walshb wrote: »

Again, these type posts don’t do you any favours..

I'm not looking for favours?

John Hutton · 14-01-2021 1:26am

AllForIt wrote: »

No of course I didn't mean in secret.

Organized religion is what I was getting at. Such that lead to mother baby homes.

I'm glad you believe in a pluralist society. Historically that was not the attitude and it certainly still isn't the attitude in Islamic counties to date.

Yes it was not the attitude, and it was wrong. I see no reason why various organised religions and those with no religion cant coexist in a country without stepping on each others toes or forcing or imposing their views on others.

walshb · 14-01-2021 1:26am

Antares35 wrote: »

I'm not looking for favours?

Ok, then remove the question mark..

14-01-2021 1:27am

walshb wrote: »

I take it you can back this up?

Labeling men and women who gave their time and effort to producing this exhaustive report as doing so under nefarious means?

This the talk is what is wrong in society. Sullying peoples names and character..

These people were under direction from democratically elected parties on this island to whitewash this??

And can you prove that they weren't, I mean you don't accept anything without proof, how do you know what went on behind the scenes, you accept a report but have difficulty accepting evidence given by the women who experienced what went on first hand because there's no proof, unbelievable.

John Hutton · 14-01-2021 1:27am

TheChizler wrote: »

Without specifically taking a side here, two people experiencing the exact same event can come away with completely different perceptions of what happened, shaped by their personalities, experiences before this point, mood, opinions, personal involvement, etc. Humans aren't machines, everything is processed subjectively. It would be wrong to say one of them is a liar when they recount the event, even when the two descriptions aren't compatible, as both could be telling what they honestly believe to be true.

Saying the facts don't support your experience is absolutely not the same as calling you a liar, or even stating that you're not telling what you know to be the truth.

This sort of logic and sense isnt welcome here, you must be like, as another poster put it, a holocaust denier.

Antares35 · 14-01-2021 1:28am

walshb wrote: »

Ok, then remove the question mark..

What's with your constant asking people to change their posts, take things back and edit what they've said? Would you like us all to go away so that you can dictate the contents of the entire thread uninterrupted?

walshb · 14-01-2021 1:29am

Deleted User wrote: »

And can you prove that they weren't, I mean you don't accept anything without proof, how do you know what went on behind the scenes, you accept a report but have difficulty accepting evidence given by the women who experienced what went on first hand because there's no proof, unbelievable.

Oh, so I have to prove they weren’t?

Is this how it works..someone makes an allegation without proof, and I have to disprove the allegation...

Seriously....we’ll just leave it here..

walshb · 14-01-2021 1:30am

Antares35 wrote: »

What's with your constant asking people to change their posts, take things back and edit what they've said? Would you like us all to go away so that you can dictate the contents of the entire thread uninterrupted?

Constant?

I asked on poster to remove a nasty remark to me. And asked you to take back falsely saying that I called people liars..

stockshares · 14-01-2021 8:34am

walshb wrote: »

I take it you can back this up?

Labeling men and women who gave their time and effort to producing this exhaustive report as doing so under nefarious means?

This the talk is what is wrong in society. Sullying peoples names and character..

These people were under direction from democratically elected parties on this island to whitewash this??

Here's Simon McGarrs opinion on how these inquiries are little more than a cover up for the Church and State.
https://twitter.com/Tupp_Ed/status/1349494794981142534?s=19

https://twitter.com/Tupp_Ed/status/1349505909735743488?s=19

Baggly · 14-01-2021 8:36am

Mod

Jelem, dont post in this thread again.

Ted_YNWA · 14-01-2021 8:56am

Antares35 wrote: »

The only difficulty I have is trying to understand how people can still support the church. It's a soft endorsement of everything they've done. I can only hope they'll be bred out eventually.

I'm not interested in your life lessons...I've a "quote a day" calendar on my desk deeper than your posts

walshb wrote: »

Well, you really have no standards or common decency with an attitude like this..

Antares35 wrote: »

Oh no, the Catholic church sympathiser has a low opinion of me.

walshb wrote: »

Again, these type posts don’t do you any favours..

Antares35 wrote: »

I'm not looking for favours?

Antares35 wrote: »

What's with your constant asking people to change their posts, take things back and edit what they've said? Would you like us all to go away so that you can dictate the contents of the entire thread uninterrupted?

walshb wrote: »

Constant?

I asked on poster to remove a nasty remark to me. And asked you to take back falsely saying that I called people liars..

Mod

Bring it to PM and don't derail the thread with this petty squabbling or sanctions will increase.

the kelt · 14-01-2021 9:36am

John Hutton wrote: »

This is a dishonest and unfair question.

Many many people gave evidence to this commission. How can I stand over the truth of claims made by other people? Many of which differ greatly and at times contradict one another? About stuff that happened a long time ago? There are claims and submissions by residents saying that the homes and nuns were nice and there was no abuse. Are you calling these people liars? I dont expect you to answer, how could you? You would have to investigate... like the commission did.

The whole point of an investigation is to establish, with evidence, the truth of a matter. It is not fair to rubbish an investigation because it did not find evidence for certain claims, by calling it a whitewash. Not is it fair to try and bully people for discussing the findings of the expert commission by accusing them, or implying, that they are slagging off vulnerable people as liars.

I would like to think that everyone who gave evidence did so honestly and to the best of their recollection. As to whether everything, good or bad, was true or not, I do not know, you do not know - this was why there was an investigation to find this out. The only thing we can say with confidence is what the facts and evidence are, thanks to the hard work of the commission.

Well you’ve changed your tune so, good to see that you can open your mind to the possibilities that the report is not the be all and end all because previously according to yourself if there was no evidence in the report it definitely didn’t happen.

Good to see

the kelt · 14-01-2021 9:44am

walshb wrote: »

Hold on..

Nobody knows the complete truth and facts here. Nobody..

There is far far too much involved...

For some of these commentators to label a 4000 page report as a whitewash because it didn’t give them exactly what they wanted is a disgrace.

Many good people gave many hours and hours of hard work and skills and determination and perseverance to produce this exhausting and detailed report..

Nobody is taking the women’s reaction with a pinch of salt. I absolutely conceded that there will be details in the report that are to be disagreed with, challenged and contested, and I don’t doubt the sincerity of the women doing this..

But you can see the flip side can’t you?

There are those that feel it definitely didn’t capture everything that’s happened and there are those who are relieved because their institutions came out of it only looking moderately evil when the potential was for so much worse.

When those defending an institution here basically saying “phew well there’s no evidence that women were physically forced to give up babies thank god for that” that the bottom of the barrel has been pretty much scraped out in honesty.

It’s quite contradictory to say well we can’t say for definite what happened and then say well no evidence of that so definitely didn’t happen, I think that’s what has people a bit riled in all honesty.

Its basic pshycology, deflect until they get fed up but dont answer.

When you look at the harrowing details in the report and then see the reactions of many defending the Catholic Church etc as to the accuracy of what’s in it “if it’s not in the report definitely didn’t happen” you can sense the relief they have in proclaiming that, it’s a sigh of relief almost, “ok that could have been worse” it does make you wonder what’s there to be relieved about?

Mother and babies homes information sealed for 30 years

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