The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

a very cool kid · 31-10-2020 1:03am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

380 approx haven't sent back the money.

380 people working for Sinn Féin?!?

a very cool kid · 31-10-2020 1:05am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It was an unforgiveable ****-up. It should not have happened. If FG or FF had done it, I would have said somebody needs to resign.
That happened here.

If it's a couple of random cases it's for individuals, if every case on the party does it it's a question for the party.

FrancieBrady · 31-10-2020 1:09am

a very cool kid wrote: »

380 people working for Sinn Féin?!?

Are you sure you are familiar with the story? The same money was paid to another 380 approx accounts that hasn't been repaid.

a very cool kid · 31-10-2020 1:10am

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are you sure you are familiar with the story? The same money was paid to another 380 approx accounts that hasn't been repaid.

380 accounts related to political parties?

maccored · 31-10-2020 1:14am

a very cool kid wrote: »

That doesn't explain how three of them didn't send it back simultaneously. Was there a case where a payment was made to Sinn Féin and then repaid before the BBC questions? This would make it significantly more believable as an administrative issue

no idea - im sure we'll hear what the story was. hardly makes sense for SF to try and swipe 30 grand. they'd be better just joining in with FF anf FG and look for bigger payrises

smurgen · 31-10-2020 1:24am

maccored wrote: »

no idea - im sure we'll hear what the story was. hardly makes sense for SF to try and swipe 30 grand. they'd be better just joining in with FF anf FG and look for bigger payrises

True dat.

"Fine Gael is by far the richest political party with all 50 TDs having a combined wealth of €80m".

Whiff of Ansbacher off of it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-half-of-irelands-tds-are-millionaires-and-heres-how-much-theyre-worth-36901002.html

Jinglejangle69 · 31-10-2020 1:27am

smurgen wrote: »

True dat.

"Fine Gael is by far the richest political party with all 50 TDs having a combined wealth of €80m".

Whiff of Ansbacher off of it.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/revealed-half-of-irelands-tds-are-millionaires-and-heres-how-much-theyre-worth-36901002.html

FG is under your bed, night:)

Nobotty · 31-10-2020 1:39am

blanch152 wrote: »

Three defunct accounts?

Not credible, my friend.

It is you know,how many statements would there be on an account that looks after rates? How often would you be looking at it to check whats in it?
How often would it occur to you to check if something unexpected went in to it?
Not often

FrancieBrady · 31-10-2020 2:57am

a very cool kid wrote: »

380 accounts related to political parties?

Why would that be important? It's taxpayers money.

padd b1975 · 31-10-2020 3:33am

Nobotty wrote: »

It is you know,how many statements would there be on an account that looks after rates? How often would you be looking at it to check whats in it?
How often would it occur to you to check if something unexpected went in to it?
Not often

I'm sure there was a cover letter sent as well.

JohnnyFlash · 31-10-2020 3:49am

At least 50 properties and 200 employees.....

Risteard81 · 31-10-2020 3:55am

Let's not forget that Elisha McLaughlin's husband (with whom she is a co-signatory to the account which this was paid into) has a history of beating up pensioners. She is unfit for office - as is Mary Who who referred to this city and county of Derry prefixed by the name of a foreign city.

Bishop of hope · 31-10-2020 9:28am

Why have SF not named the other officials who have resigned, why is there always secrecy in SF?
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/covid-grants-calls-for-sinn-fein-to-shed-light-on-party-officials-who-resigned-39688611.html

31-10-2020 9:35am

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

At least 50 properties and 200 employees.....

In their defence, it may have been an honest mistake. They have so much money moving its hard to keep track of it.

Dyr · 31-10-2020 12:06pm

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Why have SF not named the other officials who have resigned, why is there always secrecy in SF?
https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/covid-grants-calls-for-sinn-fein-to-shed-light-on-party-officials-who-resigned-39688611.html

Long tradtion of respecting privacy in Sinn Féin

Signed
P O'Neill

JohnnyFlash · 31-10-2020 6:52pm

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/1031/1175141-sinn-fein/

A SF MLA resigned today. More high jinks involving grant money.

Fann Linn · 31-10-2020 6:53pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/1031/1175141-sinn-fein/

A SF MLA resigned today. More high jinks involving grant money.

Far bigger problems for your own party John. Will Leo resign?

FrancieBrady · 31-10-2020 6:54pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/1031/1175141-sinn-fein/

A SF MLA resigned today. More high jinks involving grant money.

Same issue not 'more' Johnny.

Truthvader · 31-10-2020 6:55pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/1031/1175141-sinn-fein/

A SF MLA resigned today. More high jinks involving grant money.

FFS. Where is Francie?

THEY GAVE THE MONEY BACK WHEN THEY WERE CAUGHT.

Would you drop down to Slab and get him to calm down.

Jeeeze

JohnnyFlash · 31-10-2020 6:59pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

Far bigger problems for your own party John. Will Leo resign?

Not really, dude.

a very cool kid · 01-11-2020 4:19am

I really hope Leo getting his comeuppance (hopefully!) doesn't derail this thread. Sinn Fein have questions to answer here still I think

smurgen · 01-11-2020 4:29am

a very cool kid wrote: »

I really hope Leo getting his comeuppance (hopefully!) doesn't derail this thread. Sinn Fein have questions to answer here still I think

Go on outline them? Remember we have much bigger fatter fish to fry in the leo story.

a very cool kid · 01-11-2020 12:03pm

smurgen wrote: »

Go on outline them? Remember we have much bigger fatter fish to fry in the leo story.

1. There were three separate payments to three separate accounts, none were repaid or even queried until it was raised in the media. It seems very unusual that if the default was to repay the money that none of them would have noticed or queried it. This gives rise to speculation SF thought they were entitled to it.

2. In the case of McCallion, the money was paid to her and her husband's joint personal account. I struggle to believe neither of them noticed. If neither heeded the amount involved warranted investigation, it begs the question of how much money is going through their personal account and is it fitting for an elected official? Furthermore, if the property involved was a Sinn Féin registered property why was the council tax paid from a personal account (other parties have candidates take leases in their own names and pay rent themselves to the landlord in question - sometimes a chunk of that rent will be reimbursed by the party)

3. Resigning a seat in the houses of the Oireachtas is a massive deal. If this was an administrative issue, the punishment far outweighs the issue. Two questions here:

Was EMcC told to resign because she herself stole the money? If so, will SF completely kick her out?

Was she told to resign to prevent questions in the Seanad? Given the party are already being investigated by SIPO are they trying to prevent further scrutiny of their financial affairs?

FrancieBrady · 01-11-2020 12:34pm

a very cool kid wrote: »

1. There were three separate payments to three separate accounts, none were repaid or even queried until it was raised in the media. It seems very unusual that if the default was to repay the money that none of them would have noticed or queried it. This gives rise to speculation SF thought they were entitled to it.

2. In the case of McCallion, the money was paid to her and her husband's joint personal account. I struggle to believe neither of them noticed. If neither heeded the amount involved warranted investigation, it begs the question of how much money is going through their personal account and is it fitting for an elected official? Furthermore, if the property involved was a Sinn Féin registered property why was the council tax paid from a personal account (other parties have candidates take leases in their own names and pay rent themselves to the landlord in question - sometimes a chunk of that rent will be reimbursed by the party)

3. Resigning a seat in the houses of the Oireachtas is a massive deal. If this was an administrative issue, the punishment far outweighs the issue. Two questions here:

Was EMcC told to resign because she herself stole the money? If so, will SF completely kick her out?

Was she told to resign to prevent questions in the Seanad? Given the party are already being investigated by SIPO are they trying to prevent further scrutiny of their financial affairs?

Link to claim that 'SIPO are already investigating Sinn Fein'?

SIPO wrote to SF last year seeking clarification and got it, and as far as I am aware have no issues. From their annual report:

“There is nothing illegal about a party that is, for organisational purposes, a single entity, having statutory obligations in more than one jurisdiction.

Bishop of hope · 01-11-2020 12:51pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Link to claim that 'SIPO are already investigating Sinn Fein'?

SIPO wrote to SF last year seeking clarification and got it, and as far as I am aware have no issues. From their annual report:

Just a question on this so, is SF Republic allowed to get any of that money at all or does that mean that SF NI is not allowed to donate any of it to SF Republic?
Basically of SF Republic used any of that money wouldn't that then be illegal?

FrancieBrady · 01-11-2020 12:58pm

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Just a question on this so, is SF Republic allowed to get any of that money at all or does that mean that SF NI is not allowed to donate any of it to SF Republic?
Basically of SF Republic used any of that money wouldn't that then be illegal?

No idea.

Ask SIPO maybe?

Bishop of hope · 01-11-2020 1:03pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No idea.

Ask SIPO maybe?

Maybe!

If they did or do I'm sure it would raise questions.
Like if FG and FF for instance registered in NI surely they could accept donations there and funnel them south too.
Maybe that should be looked at?

FrancieBrady · 01-11-2020 1:07pm

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Maybe!

If they did or do I'm sure it would raise questions.
Like if FG and FF for instance registered in NI surely they could accept donations there and funnel them south too.
Maybe that should be looked at?

Why would there be an issue?

We accept that the people of the north are Irish, why can't Irish people donate to a political party?

You could feasibly have a situation where we decide by referendum that those Irish people can vote in Irish presidential elections but cannot donate to a political party of their choice. Seems weird and exclusionary to me.

Bishop of hope · 01-11-2020 1:13pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Why would there be an issue?

We accept that the people of the north are Irish, why can't Irish people donate to a political party?

You could feasibly have a situation where we decide by referendum that those Irish people can vote in Irish presidential elections but cannot donate to a political party of their choice. Seems weird and exclusionary to me.

I'm OK with that, I'm just wondering on the legality then of donations, like SF got being used by the political party here afterwards is all.
I mean if its, that simple to get around the, rules here wouldn't you think all party's would be at it?

FrancieBrady · 01-11-2020 1:16pm

Bishop of hope wrote: »

I'm OK with that, I'm just wondering on the legality then of donations, like SF got being used by the political party here afterwards is all.
I mean if its, that simple to get around the, rules here wouldn't you think all party's would be at it?

Don't know and really doesn't greatly concern me. Partition has made life complicated enough without adding another layer to it and for what?

01-11-2020 1:19pm

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Maybe!

If they did or do I'm sure it would raise questions.
Like if FG and FF for instance registered in NI surely they could accept donations there and funnel them south too.
Maybe that should be looked at?

FFG are registered in the north already afaik

They deffo have some presence in the colleges?

Nothing to stop em doing this now,afaik its suspected FF funnel money (deffo resources)to sdlp to help eastwood get elected

(hence the unease at senior FF members around the FG video dissing shinners around this issue)

Loafing Oaf · 01-11-2020 2:33pm

Mary Lou has had the mother of all makeovers:P

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/dublin-girl-11-dresses-up-22938069

Bishop of hope · 01-11-2020 2:40pm

Not wanting to go down the road of Leo, is NI regarded as foreign when it comes to political parties?
We have SF claiming to be an all Ireland party, but for donation purposes, two separate entities.
If that's so, even if SF NI get massive donations as per the rule up there then surely SF Republic must be subject to our donation rules down here.
And even if its SF NI donating the money south then surely our rules must apply to SF Republic?

SIPO must surely have a role in overseeing that.
Our rules are,

"There is a ban on foreign donations. The legal maximum for anonymous donations is set at €100, rather low when compared to other countries. The annual maximum for all donors is €6,350 per party and €2,540 per parliamentary candidate".
From Wikipedia.

FrancieBrady · 01-11-2020 2:48pm

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Not wanting to go down the road of Leo, is NI regarded as foreign when it comes to political parties?
We have SF claiming to be an all Ireland party, but for donation purposes, two separate entities.
If that's so, even if SF NI get massive donations as per the rule up there then surely SF Republic must be subject to our donation rules down here.
And even if its SF NI donating the money south then surely our rules must apply to SF Republic?

SIPO must surely have a role in overseeing that.
Our rules are,

"There is a ban on foreign donations. The legal maximum for anonymous donations is set at €100, rather low when compared to other countries. The annual maximum for all donors is €6,350 per party and €2,540 per parliamentary candidate".
From Wikipedia.

Current events seem to suggest you get privilege and inside info without even having to make a donation.

We are a partitioned island and that makes things complicated and impossible to police. As said above there are rumours FF pumped money Eastwood's way.

Bishop of hope · 01-11-2020 2:49pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Current events seem to suggest you get privilege and inside info without even having to make a donation.

We are a partitioned island and that makes things complicated and impossible to police. As said above there are rumours FF pumped money Eastwood's way.

But is that illegal or wrong going on NI rules?

Truthvader · 01-11-2020 2:51pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Current events seem to suggest you get privilege and inside info without even having to make a donation.

We are a partitioned island and that makes things complicated and impossible to police. As said above there are rumours FF pumped money Eastwood's way.

"Rumours"? What happened to Francie's obsession with "proof" and "evidence"

FrancieBrady · 01-11-2020 2:58pm

Truthvader wrote: »

"Rumours"? What happened to Francie's obsession with "proof" and "evidence"

Difference between me and you is I stated clearly that it is a 'rumour'.

FrancieBrady · 01-11-2020 3:02pm

Bishop of hope wrote: »

But is that illegal or wrong going on NI rules?

No idea. Aa I said, it doesn't concern me greatly.
Money flows south, money flows north, part of the reality of partition.

Bishop of hope · 01-11-2020 3:10pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No idea. Aa I said, it doesn't concern me greatly.
Money flows south, money flows north, part of the reality of partition.

It doesn't concern you greatly?
Of course it doesn't but everything everyone else does.
As I said before, you're a gas man.

FrancieBrady · 01-11-2020 3:13pm

Bishop of hope wrote: »

It doesn't concern you greatly?
Of course it doesn't but everything everyone else does.
As I said before, you're a gas man.

Are you only concerned about one party here Bish?

You kinda gave it away in the above post.

It doesn't greatly concern me if FG FF or SF etc do it.

How do you police it properly? Would you agree with another poster that 'a certain print company in Donegal should have their accounts looked at?'

Bishop of hope · 01-11-2020 3:28pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are you only concerned about one party here Bish?

You kinda gave it away in the above post.

It doesn't greatly concern me if FG FF or SF etc do it.

How do you police it properly? Would you agree with another poster that 'a certain print company in Donegal should have their accounts looked at?'

Don't know anything about a print company in Donegal.
Why you change the subject?

FrancieBrady · 01-11-2020 3:32pm

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Don't know anything about a print company in Donegal.
Why you change the subject?

I'm not changing the subject. We are talking about rumours of rule breaking.

Bishop of hope · 01-11-2020 3:53pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'm not changing the subject. We are talking about rumours of rule breaking.

Were we, grand.

FrancieBrady · 01-11-2020 3:56pm

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Were we, grand.

Well you accused me of only being concerned about what everyone else does.

You want a discussion of the rules but it only seems to be rules governng what SF does or doesn't do.

The rules apply to all parties. There is as another poster said, a rumour that FF pumped cash northwards to an SDLP candidate.

I don't actually have any great issue about that either.

Bishop of hope · 01-11-2020 7:34pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well you accused me of only being concerned about what everyone else does.

You want a discussion of the rules but it only seems to be rules governng what SF does or doesn't do.

The rules apply to all parties. There is as another poster said, a rumour that FF pumped cash northwards to an SDLP candidate.

I don't actually have any great issue about that either.

I was excepting your explanation of what happened with the donation and how it was handled.
I thought as you knew so much about it that you might be aware of the ramifications if some of the money were drifted to SF Republic.
You deflected it yourself to a chat about all parties.
But you don't know anymore than I do on that it seems.
Fair play for trying to divert anyway.

FrancieBrady · 01-11-2020 7:37pm

Bishop of hope wrote: »

I was excepting your explanation of what happened with the donation and how it was handled.
I thought as you knew so much about it that you might be aware of the ramifications if some of the money were drifted to SF Republic.
You deflected it yourself to a chat about all parties.
But you don't know anymore than I do on that it seems.
Fair play for trying to divert anyway.

Are the rules not designed for everybody?

Or are they only to catch out SF?

I.E. Why wouldn't I talk about the generality of these rules?

Bishop of hope · 01-11-2020 8:01pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are the rules not designed for everybody?

Or are they only to catch out SF?

I.E. Why wouldn't I talk about the generality of these rules?

Thréad maybe?
But you're right of course the rules do apply to all.
So in essence essentially we haven't SF the all Ireland party, we have two SFs.
SF NI and SF Republic.

FrancieBrady · 01-11-2020 8:10pm

Bishop of hope wrote: »

Thréad maybe?
But you're right of course the rules do apply to all.
So in essence essentially we haven't SF the all Ireland party, we have two SFs.
SF NI and SF Republic.

I view it the same way SIPO do.

There is nothing illegal about a party that is, for organisational purposes, a single entity, having statutory obligations in more than one jurisdiction.

Higgins5473 · 01-11-2020 9:44pm

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Not really, dude.

Where have you gone, dude, please come back, your overlord has a lot of questions to answer for and you’ve disappeared. Please come back xoxoxo

a very cool kid · 01-11-2020 11:03pm

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I view it the same way SIPO do.

There is nothing illegal about a party that is, for organisational purposes, a single entity, having statutory obligations in more than one jurisdiction.

So Sinn Fein don't spend any funds raised through the NI entity in Ireland? Ireland has very strict maximum limits...

If this is the case then they are fine.

The wondrous adventures of Sinn Fein (part 2)

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