UNIVERSAL SOCIAL CHARGE (USC)

wicorthered · 07-12-2010 10:43pm

Eoineo wrote: »

Medical card holders receive the card due to their financial circumstances and/or medical need. The limits are very low income wise in order to qualify. If you have a medical card it is because without it you would be unable to pay to see the Doctor, medical treatment or prescription fees.

I know lots of people who while not well off are far from low income. Yet these folks have medical cards. I think its one of the most abused forms of welfare. I know 1 family who run to the doctor when one of their girls so much as coughs. If they had no medical card the kid would have to do with a bottle of cough syrup!!!

susie05 · 07-12-2010 10:48pm

wicorthered wrote: »

I know lots of people who while not well off are far from low income. Yet these folks have medical cards. I think its one of the most abused forms of welfare. I know 1 family who run to the doctor when one of their girls so much as coughs. If they had no medical card the kid would have to do with a bottle of cough syrup!!!

That is very unfair of you & maybe you dont have a child yourself so dont understand...my own child only had a ''cough'' last winter so i took her to the doc but 12hrs later she was in special care incubator unable to breath by herself..
Sometimes things are not always what they appear to you..you dont know a families circumstance or medical history.

hexx · 07-12-2010 10:54pm

wicorthered wrote: »

I know lots of people who while not well off are far from low income. Yet these folks have medical cards. I think its one of the most abused forms of welfare. I know 1 family who run to the doctor when one of their girls so much as coughs. If they had no medical card the kid would have to do with a bottle of cough syrup!!!

Personally I think this whole point is for a thread of it's own. However your comment is a very blinkered one IMO. I have a medical card and work, I have my card due to the exceptional medical needs of my daughter which has been deemed enough to allow a medical card for me and for her. Her medical needs not only have a financial impact on the whole family due to their cost but due to the time off required to care for her at any time during the year. It is not not always so cut and dry as you might like to view things.

If, as I believe I am now subject to the USC I will have to reassess my situation and this may well push me into the social welfare area as I most likely will be better off on carers allowance and reduce/eliminate my working hours and thus cost the state more, rather than contribute as I have been doing. How can that be right?

cherry4 · 07-12-2010 10:59pm

I have a medical card and am "middle" income. I got it because my medical costs were/would be €350 per month and my income was reduced last year. I work full time my husband has 2 jobs and we still cannot pay our full negative equity mortgage. Today our combined monthly income was reduced by approx €450 per month (if the exemption is not applicable), this when we are already struggling. We may have to give up our long fought for home despite having reduced all spending to a minimum, working 3 jobs etc etc

Looks like we will be emigrating

If anyone has clarity on the medical card exemption PLEASE let us know
Worried
X

wicorthered · 07-12-2010 10:59pm

susie05 wrote: »

That is very unfair of you & maybe you dont have a child yourself so dont understand...my own child only had a ''cough'' last winter so i took her to the doc but 12hrs later she was in special care incubator unable to breath by herself..
Sometimes things are not always what they appear to you..you dont know a families circumstance or medical history.

I actually know the family very well and they're very open about the fact they get great value out of the medical card. Obviously people do get genuinely sick and need a doctor but i'd wager a high percent of medical card visits to a GP (excluding long term illness sufferers) are unnecessary.

trishawisha · 07-12-2010 11:00pm

Eoineo wrote: »

Medical card holders receive the card due to their financial circumstances and/or medical need. The limits are very low income wise in order to qualify. If you have a medical card it is because without it you would be unable to pay to see the Doctor, medical treatment or prescription fees.

Im sorry but That is bollox! My manager in work has a medical card. His wife works part time. I dont qualify for a medical card, How is that fair!

Eoineo · 07-12-2010 11:04pm

trishawisha wrote: »

Im sorry but That is bollox! My manager in work has a medical card. His wife works part time. I dont qualify for a medical card, How is that fair!

I have no idea why you don't qualify and they do. Maybe you should take it up with the HSE & not some random poster.

My experience with the HSE has been that they are very strict about granting medical cards.

hexx · 07-12-2010 11:06pm

cherry4 wrote: »

I have a medical card and am "middle" income. I got it because my medical costs were/would be €350 per month and my income was reduced last year. I work full time my husband has 2 jobs and we still cannot pay our full negative equity mortgage. Today our combined monthly income was reduced by approx €450 per month (if the exemption is not applicable), this when we are already struggling. We may have to give up our long fought for home despite having reduced all spending to a minimum, working 3 jobs etc etc

Looks like we will be emigrating

If anyone has clarity on the medical card exemption PLEASE let us know
Worried
X

I sympathise and understand your concern. I too am concerned as this hit is going to be huge with huge consequences. I am suspect tha ambiguity on this is deliberate and covered with "no exceptions" mentiond in the Annex. I want a phone in on Prime Time and a straight answer.

dowlingm · 07-12-2010 11:06pm

The problem with the medical card system is that it creates a huge barrier to work or to make more via overtime if in a low paid position. The government should be RAISING the entitlement limit for medcards progressively while reducing the tax rebate on private care to zero over the same period and raising PRSI rates accordingly. Where I live I pay tax to the tune of 447 EUR a year just for health but I pay nothing to see a doctor and my work plan only has to cover some prescriptions and dental.

ncef4208 · 07-12-2010 11:16pm

If you have a full medical card not gp card, you were not liable for income levy nor the health levy, they did not announce that this was to change
o

Joey the lips · 07-12-2010 11:24pm

My brain is fuzzed so much by this charge i just cannot understand it... Can you please explain it simply...

Married Man on 33000

How much is this new charge.

Thanks

shaddupayaface · 07-12-2010 11:29pm

ncef4208 wrote: »

If you have a full medical card not gp card, you were not liable for income levy nor the health levy, they did not announce that this was to change
o

The Income Levy and Health Levy have been abolished and replaced with this Universal Social Charge.

They did not announce whether MC holders are exempt or not. They did state that there are no special exemptions from this USC....maybe that means no "new" special exemptions.

No-one will know for sure until the question is asked and answered by the Department.

If MC holders are liable for this charge, I suspect there there will be uproar.....

wicorthered · 07-12-2010 11:31pm

Joey the lips wrote: »

My brain is fuzzed so much by this charge i just cannot understand it... Can you please explain it simply...

Married Man on 33000

How much is this new charge.

Thanks

You shouldn't lose too much in fact you could even end up a couple of euro. What you pay in USC should be similar to the health and income levies.

DubDani · 07-12-2010 11:34pm

Joey the lips wrote: »

My brain is fuzzed so much by this charge i just cannot understand it... Can you please explain it simply...

Married Man on 33000

How much is this new charge.

Thanks

2% on €10,036 = 200.72
4% on €5980 = 239.20
7% on €16984 = 1188.88

So you will pay 1628.80 a year (in effect 4.936%), which is less then you paid this year in Halth and Income levy (1980), and in effect be more then 350 Euro better off (only basing this on USC vs. Income/Health Levy).

Joey the lips · 07-12-2010 11:37pm

wicorthered wrote: »

You shouldn't lose too much in fact you could even end up a couple of euro. What you pay in USC should be similar to the health and income levies.

DubDani wrote: »

2% on €10,036 = 200.72
4% on €5980 = 239.20
7% on €16984 = 1188.88

So you will pay 1628.80 a year (in effect 4.936%), which is less then you paid this year in Halth and Income levy (1980), and in effect be more then 350 Euro better off (only basing this on USC vs. Income/Health Levy).

Thank you both... I did not pay a health levy...I think. I just paid the normal levy...

Is the health levy related to Health insurence.

dvpower · 07-12-2010 11:41pm

Joey the lips wrote: »

My brain is fuzzed so much by this charge i just cannot understand it... Can you please explain it simply...

Married Man on 33000

How much is this new charge.

Thanks

You save €339 on the new charge (compared with the levies).
But you'll pay an extra €540 in Income tax

wicorthered · 07-12-2010 11:41pm

Joey the lips wrote: »

Thank you both... I did not pay a health levy...I think. I just paid the normal levy...

Is the health levy related to Health insurence.

I think the health levy is paid as part of your PRSI, it is paid on earnings over 25000k. You may not have seen it on a payslip but paid it anyway.

I could easily be wrong!!

superhooper · 07-12-2010 11:41pm

Taken from the Chartered Accts Website.http://http://www.charteredaccountants.ie/General/News-and-Events/News1/2010/December/Universal-Social-Charge/
"Budget 2011 - Universal Social Charge

Tuesday, December 07, 2010
A new Universal Social Charge (USC) will be introduced to replace both the health levy and income levy. The charge will apply to all income at rates between 2% and 7%, once annual income exceeds €4,004.

The USC will apply in 2011 at the following rates:

0% where income is less than €4,004

2% on income up to €10,036

4% on €10,036 to €16,016

7% on income greater than €16,016

The USC will apply on a similar basis to the Income Levy with no special exemption. Pension contributions will not have an exemption from the charge, however, there will be an exemption from the charge for ‘genuine’ business capital allowances. It is expected that a lower rate will apply for those over 70; however no details of this lower rate are available yet.

According to Dept of Finance Budget summary measures, the USC is designed to apply across income levels in a smoother progression and at the same time address the complex structure of the Income and Health Levies and PRSI. One consequence, unintended or otherwise, is that the application of the USC to higher income levels serves to reduce the maximum marginal rate of tax from 56% to 52%.

The USC is expected to yield €420 million in a full year"

DubDani · 07-12-2010 11:42pm

Joey the lips wrote: »

Thank you both... I did not pay a health levy...I think. I just paid the normal levy...

Is the health levy related to Health insurence.

On your income you pay 4% Health Levy on the full 33K. In your payslip it most likely is included in your PRSI amount.

dvpower · 07-12-2010 11:42pm

Joey the lips wrote: »

Thank you both... I did not pay a health levy...I think. I just paid the normal levy...

Is the health levy related to Health insurence.

You probably do pay it (4%). It's normally just included in your PRSI deduction.

shaddupayaface · 07-12-2010 11:44pm

Bad news for MC Holders, it's there in black and white, see USC document on the link below

2.4 I have a medical card – do I pay Universal Social Charge on my wages?

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Persons entitled to a full medical card are not excluded from the Universal Social Charge. The exemption that existed for people who hold a full medical card in relation to income levy is not a feature of Universal Social Charge.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/press/budget/2011/index.html
[/FONT][/FONT]

susie05 · 07-12-2010 11:46pm

2.4 I have a medical card – do I pay Universal Social Charge on my wages?
Persons entitled to a full medical card are not excluded from the Universal Social Charge. The exemption that existed for people who hold a full medical card in relation to income levy is not a feature of Universal Social Charge.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/press/budget/2011/index.html

hexx · 07-12-2010 11:50pm

susie05 wrote: »

2.4 I have a medical card – do I pay Universal Social Charge on my wages?
Persons entitled to a full medical card are not excluded from the Universal Social Charge. The exemption that existed for people who hold a full medical card in relation to income levy is not a feature of Universal Social Charge.

http://www.revenue.ie/en/press/budget/2011/index.html

Well that's that, time to cruch the numbers and make some serious decisions. :mad::mad::mad::mad:

snowdaze · 08-12-2010 12:11am

I too fall in to the bracket of having a medical card but working as a low paid public servant.....the extra that will be taken from me in taxes and usc will leave a deficit that will be made up by FIS.....doesn't make sense to take it off you with one hand and give it back with the other???

Ogham · 08-12-2010 12:33am

snowdaze wrote: »

I too fall in to the bracket of having a medical card but working as a low paid public servant.....the extra that will be taken from me in taxes and usc will leave a deficit that will be made up by FIS.....doesn't make sense to take it off you with one hand and give it back with the other???

It does make sense - it is a way of protecting lower income families from the extra taxes. You will be like many others - where FIS will rise and the overall drop in income will be less than 1%. Hopefully they planned it that way - or then again ??:rolleyes:

pS - Med card definitely not excluded from new USC ..
Update on http://www.moneyguideireland.com/universal-social-charge.html
Says .....
Persons entitled to a full medical card are not excluded from the Universal Social Charge. The exemption that existed for people who hold a full medical card in relation to income levy is not a feature of Universal Social Charge.

Draco · 08-12-2010 1:23am

Blowfish wrote: »

I'm not sure that's correct, from playing around with it, it actually shows that if you earn between 26100 and 32200, your take home will increase.

It looks like that's a reversal of a pervious PRSI anomly where somone earning €26000.1 would pay €20 more tax than someone on €26000. As far as we* can figure out from the current information, this is all correct.

* I wrote the software behind TaxCalc.ie while my payrole expetert girlfriend provided the tax knowledge)

bamboozler · 08-12-2010 2:19am

Draco wrote: »

It looks like that's a reversal of a pervious PRSI anomly where somone earning €26000.1 would pay €20 more tax than someone on €26000. As far as we* can figure out from the current information, this is all correct.

* I wrote the software behind TaxCalc.ie while my payrole expetert girlfriend provided the tax knowledge)

your taxcalc.ie budget 2011 calculator is great and very easy to use.

could i just recommend maybe it should be stated the health levy is included as part of the PRSI total in budget 2010 calcs cos that isnt that clear. Also if another line could be added to break the net difference into a weekly it would be handy for quicker comparison.

that said, great calculator anyway thanks

Blowfish · 08-12-2010 2:38am

Draco wrote: »

It looks like that's a reversal of a pervious PRSI anomly where somone earning €26000.1 would pay €20 more tax than someone on €26000. As far as we* can figure out from the current information, this is all correct.

* I wrote the software behind TaxCalc.ie while my payrole expetert girlfriend provided the tax knowledge)

Indeedy, I've checked it with various other calculators and it's perfectly correct. It just seemed quite odd at first that given the circumstances, there'll be a certain section of people coming out of this budget better off than before.

woody1 · 08-12-2010 12:25pm

oh joy down another 2 grand a year , thanks to no medical card exemption, what a start to the day !!!
im not normally prone to depression, im normally a chin up , stay positive and we'll get thru it kind of person but this is just a serious kick in the bollocks this morning......
minus childrens allowance and new tax bands / credits, i dont even want to think about it..

paconnors · 08-12-2010 12:52pm

This is ridicules because of this new social charge my wages are down nearly €30 a week and i'm only on 430 before any deductions **** fianna fail

Kristopherus · 08-12-2010 1:10pm

woody1 wrote: »

oh joy down another 2 grand a year , thanks to no medical card exemption, what a start to the day !!!
im not normally prone to depression, im normally a chin up , stay positive and we'll get thru it kind of person but this is just a serious kick in the bollocks this morning......
minus childrens allowance and new tax bands / credits, i dont even want to think about it..

I think you have reflected the feeling of most people with that post.

woody1 · 08-12-2010 1:38pm

ok ive been looking at various tax calculators and they have my better half down by 760 quid a year , not bad youd say, but thats not completely accurate as she was exempt from income levy last year so thats 880 we didnt have to pay last year, and i see a difference of 1860 less in prsi for this year , which i assume is the health levy ,she didnt have to pay that last year either,
so to make it accurate we are paying 760 + 880 + 1860 more than last year = 3500, or 300 quid a month .. (plus the childrens allowance and deductions in s/w )
can someone please tell me in wrong...
i know these calculators are just averaging out and wouldnt be 100% accurate , itd be an idea to put a question on them to ask are you a medical card holder and that would give a more accurate idea to some people...

county man · 08-12-2010 1:42pm

susie05 wrote: »

my dh left the house this morning saying 'theres no point anymore' whats the point of me working & you know what i couldnt even console him because with the no medical card exemption & income tax increase he is going to be down €200 + a month...we simply wont have enough to cover mortgage & loan & buy groceries....we F*cked..i never slept a wink last night

I feel sorry for you and we will all be hit with more taxes and levies next year and the following years starting with the property tax of 100 euro in 2011 which will increase in the following years.Also there will be a water tax carbon tax and God knows what else in store.

egan2020 · 08-12-2010 1:53pm

susie05 wrote: »

my dh left the house this morning saying 'theres no point anymore' whats the point of me working & you know what i couldnt even console him because with the no medical card exemption & income tax increase he is going to be down €200 + a month...we simply wont have enough to cover mortgage & loan & buy groceries....we F*cked..i never slept a wink last night

Do you have children? If so, maybe you are entitled to Family Income Supplement. If you are already in receipt of F.I.S., you should be entitled to more as your take home pay will be less.

susie05 · 08-12-2010 2:30pm

someone has set up a facebook group to try & high-light the usc /med card no exemption..
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Reinstate-Medical-Card-Exemptions/150871834960139

c montgomery · 08-12-2010 3:41pm

_michelle_ wrote: »

If it is brought in that medical card holders are liable for it I think it is appaling! Why as per usual are low income earners being targeted?? :mad:

Because high income earners can no longer afford to pay for all of your services, childrens allowance, rent allowance, etc.... that low income earners contribute nothing or very little towards!!!

Padkir · 08-12-2010 4:16pm

cherry4 wrote: »

I have a medical card and am "middle" income. I got it because my medical costs were/would be €350 per month and my income was reduced last year. I work full time my husband has 2 jobs and we still cannot pay our full negative equity mortgage. Today our combined monthly income was reduced by approx €450 per month (if the exemption is not applicable), this when we are already struggling. We may have to give up our long fought for home despite having reduced all spending to a minimum, working 3 jobs etc etc

Looks like we will be emigrating

If anyone has clarity on the medical card exemption PLEASE let us know
Worried
X

First off, I am sorry for your situation and i do feel for you. But, and this is aimed at everyone in a similar situation, why would you have taken out a mortgage of such proportions that working 3 jobs can now no longer pay back? It was the same with an awful lot of people. You're just lucky that you even have those jobs. If you would be unable to pay back a mortgage with 2 decent jobs, then you shouldn't have taken it out.#

Its irresponsibility with money on the part of the people too.

ei.sdraob · 08-12-2010 4:44pm

Draco wrote: »

It looks like that's a reversal of a pervious PRSI anomly where somone earning €26000.1 would pay €20 more tax than someone on €26000. As far as we* can figure out from the current information, this is all correct.

* I wrote the software behind TaxCalc.ie while my payrole expetert girlfriend provided the tax knowledge)

can you edit your calculator so we can enter tax-credits amount, since some of us done get the same tax credits
company directors loose the prsi/paye credit despite having to pay these for example

yes you get penalised for starting a business

edit: thejournal.ie do that

pigeonbutler · 08-12-2010 8:56pm

I must say I have some sympathy for the people on modest incomes who are suffering sharp falls in take-home pay as a result of the USC. However this is only arising because the health levy was terribly badly designed and the removal of the anomalies it gave rise to on an ongoing basis is causing a number of apparent injustices in the impact of the introduction of the USC.

For example the simplest anomaly of the health levy was that some earning 25.5k that got a pay rise of EUR 1000 ended up with a lower take home pay. On a more micro level, retail staff who took up the offer of a couple of hours overtime ended up with less wages as a result of the levy. That was clearly a ludicrous system and had to be reformed.

Let's make one thing clear though, while looked at in isolation this measure does impose a greater cost on those earning below 26,000 it is an important reform of the tax system that still ensures that people who earn less, pay a far smaller fraction of their wages in taxes. Simple examples here, all single people in PAYE private sector jobs:

Salary % total tax suffered

15,000 2.66%
25,000 14%
35,000 20.2%
50,000 29.7%
100,000 40.87%
300,000 48.3%
1 million 50.9%

One final point, before people say the guy in the last example still takes home 490,000 and that's way too much, blah blah. Remember he's the guy that's a business owner or senior manager that creates possibly hundreds or thousands of other jobs and he's the guy that has the money to either relocate to somewhere that won't take more than half his money or simply shut his business down and go into retirement and not bother creating employment.

Even France, which is about as left-wing a country as we have in Western Europe has a strict rule that nobody's total tax liability can exceed 50% of their income as even they realise that level is the point beyond which any further taxes just penalise economic activity and are counter-productive.

lmaopml · 09-12-2010 12:37am

paconnors wrote: »

This is ridicules because of this new social charge my wages are down nearly €30 a week and i'm only on 430 before any deductions **** fianna fail

Yes, unfortunately you used to be exempt from the Health levy if you earned less than 500euro per week in 2010. The Health levy was at a rate of 2%...

Those who earned €500.01 weren't though, so it was kinda unfair in that regard too - it meant they paid an extra 2% per week which worked out at 10euro per week Health Levy or 520euro per annum....for being barely a penny over..

The USC does effect people earning less than 26K per year or €500 per week because it combines the Health levy and Income levy and there are no exceptions for those earning less than 500pw like before. The new system is much clearer and probably more fair imo, however the adjustment to it is more shocking for some, in particular those who would have been at the upper limits of being exempt previously..

cherry4 · 09-12-2010 6:44pm

Padkir wrote: »

First off, I am sorry for your situation and i do feel for you. But, and this is aimed at everyone in a similar situation, why would you have taken out a mortgage of such proportions that working 3 jobs can now no longer pay back? It was the same with an awful lot of people. You're just lucky that you even have those jobs. If you would be unable to pay back a mortgage with 2 decent jobs, then you shouldn't have taken it out.#

Its irresponsibility with money on the part of the people too.

Thanks for your sanctimonious reply I could afford my mortgage when we took it out but due to rubbish infrastructure and rising costs the job I originally had relocated to eastern Europe the job I am in now does not pay as much therefore my husband took a second job
Please consider your ignorance before you reply how could we have got a mortgage in 2004 without the correct income requirements the issue is things have changed since then IDIOT

Padkir · 09-12-2010 6:56pm

cherry4 wrote: »

Thanks for your sanctimonious reply I could afford my mortgage when we took it out but due to rubbish infrastructure and rising costs the job I originally had relocated to eastern Europe the job I am in now does not pay as much therefore my husband took a second job
Please consider your ignorance before you reply how could we have got a mortgage in 2004 without the correct income requirements the issue is things have changed since then IDIOT

You could meet the requirements for getting that size of a mortgage yes, but, I assume it could be anywhere from between 10-30 years we're talking, a bit of forward thinking is needed when deciding to put yourself so heavily in debt. I for one would not take out that large of a mortgage unless I could afford to pay it back if I took maybe a 30% pay cut.
It's hard for people I know, but unless you're very, very well educated/qualified, it's not unreasonable to think that somewhere along the line your wages may have to drop significantly.

cherry4 · 09-12-2010 7:06pm

Padkir wrote: »

You could meet the requirements for getting that size of a mortgage yes, but, I assume it could be anywhere from between 10-30 years we're talking, a bit of forward thinking is needed when deciding to put yourself so heavily in debt. I for one would not take out that large of a mortgage unless I could afford to pay it back if I took maybe a 30% pay cut.
It's hard for people I know, but unless you're very, very well educated/qualified, it's not unreasonable to think that somewhere along the line your wages may have to drop significantly.

If you consider educated to Masters Level not sufficient then perhaps you are correct but perhaps having an uneducated buffoon in charge of Finance during the boom I.e Mc Creavy is more to blame

My family and I will be emigrating in the next 2 years taking our 2 irish masters education to another economy

Padkir · 09-12-2010 7:19pm

cherry4 wrote: »

If you consider educated to Masters Level not sufficient then perhaps you are correct but perhaps having an uneducated buffoon in charge of Finance during the boom I.e Mc Creavy is more to blame

My family and I will be emigrating in the next 2 years taking our 2 irish masters education to another economy

So education wasn't the problem, fair enough. I'm just guessing here but feel free to correct me if im wrong, but the way I see it is that you have taken out a mortgage which didn't leave much scope for any reductions to your wages. As I said before, a mortgage is over a very long time and it's inevitable that at some stage along it, your salary will be reduced. You just need to have been expecting it.
I'm not trying to start an argument here, I'm just making the point that it wasn't just the poor governing that led to many mortgage holders being unable to pay.
I just read on another thread of someone who is on €33800 gross a year, which he worked out after tax to be in the region of €530 a week, or €2500 a month, roughly. And he is paying €1900 a month on a mortgage. Unless his current pay has been halved since he got the mortgage, then that was an insane amount to commit yourself to paying back, and I just hope people wont make the same mistakes in the future.

woody1 · 10-12-2010 11:51am

i think i get the point that padkir is trying to make in relation to people overstretching themselves in relation to the size of mortgage that they got relative to what they earned,
but myself and my better half got our mortgage 5 years ago based on 2 good wages , again both of us are college educated, one degree and one masters, the repayment wouldve been at the time about a quarter or less of what was coming in , so room for manouver you would think,
however i am now on less than a third of what i was on previously ( at one stage i was on less than that )
because of other cuts during the year 2010 i am down another 7000 ( ran out of jb and creche fees doubled )
and from the current and previous budgets like everyone weve gotten hammered, and with this universal social charge it looks like the government are gonna take 2600 a year off us approx 200 a month plus the extra tax gonna work out over 300 a month now hindsight is a great thing but i dont think any one of us couldve foreseen those types of cuts in earnings or tax hikes when we were sitting down to sign our mortgage.... at the time i was working in the construction industry and i was aware that the party had to end sometime..but i dont think anyone couldve foreseen the complete halt that it has come to..
AGAIN i dont think anyone on a low to middle income couldve foreseen that a budget would end up taking over 3 grand a year more off them than the previous year... personally i think this is gonna push a lot of people that were just about making ends meet over the edge..
sorry for long reply and sorry for repeating meself and talking round in circles a bit but i think the point has to be made that not everyone was or is just irresponsible with money ,

Padkir · 10-12-2010 6:44pm

woody1 wrote: »

i think i get the point that padkir is trying to make in relation to people overstretching themselves in relation to the size of mortgage that they got relative to what they earned,
but myself and my better half got our mortgage 5 years ago based on 2 good wages , again both of us are college educated, one degree and one masters, the repayment wouldve been at the time about a quarter or less of what was coming in , so room for manouver you would think,
however i am now on less than a third of what i was on previously ( at one stage i was on less than that )
because of other cuts during the year 2010 i am down another 7000 ( ran out of jb and creche fees doubled )
and from the current and previous budgets like everyone weve gotten hammered, and with this universal social charge it looks like the government are gonna take 2600 a year off us approx 200 a month plus the extra tax gonna work out over 300 a month now hindsight is a great thing but i dont think any one of us couldve foreseen those types of cuts in earnings or tax hikes when we were sitting down to sign our mortgage.... at the time i was working in the construction industry and i was aware that the party had to end sometime..but i dont think anyone couldve foreseen the complete halt that it has come to..
AGAIN i dont think anyone on a low to middle income couldve foreseen that a budget would end up taking over 3 grand a year more off them than the previous year... personally i think this is gonna push a lot of people that were just about making ends meet over the edge..
sorry for long reply and sorry for repeating meself and talking round in circles a bit but i think the point has to be made that not everyone was or is just irresponsible with money ,

That's fair enough, I take your point. When you put it out in writing like that just how much is being taken off by each cut it is difficult to think that you could have expected it! That said, there are some who borrowed recklessly!:o

pigeonbutler · 10-12-2010 9:40pm

woody1 wrote: »

i think i get the point that padkir is trying to make in relation to people overstretching themselves in relation to the size of mortgage that they got relative to what they earned,
but myself and my better half got our mortgage 5 years ago based on 2 good wages , again both of us are college educated, one degree and one masters, the repayment wouldve been at the time about a quarter or less of what was coming in , so room for manouver you would think,
however i am now on less than a third of what i was on previously ( at one stage i was on less than that )
because of other cuts during the year 2010 i am down another 7000 ( ran out of jb and creche fees doubled )
and from the current and previous budgets like everyone weve gotten hammered, and with this universal social charge it looks like the government are gonna take 2600 a year off us approx 200 a month plus the extra tax gonna work out over 300 a month now hindsight is a great thing but i dont think any one of us couldve foreseen those types of cuts in earnings or tax hikes when we were sitting down to sign our mortgage.... at the time i was working in the construction industry and i was aware that the party had to end sometime..but i dont think anyone couldve foreseen the complete halt that it has come to..
AGAIN i dont think anyone on a low to middle income couldve foreseen that a budget would end up taking over 3 grand a year more off them than the previous year... personally i think this is gonna push a lot of people that were just about making ends meet over the edge..
sorry for long reply and sorry for repeating meself and talking round in circles a bit but i think the point has to be made that not everyone was or is just irresponsible with money ,

I sympathise with that situation. However... what else is the government to do? We spent 49 Billion in 2010 while raising only 31 billion in taxes. The markets have pretty much closed to us for further borrowing at affordable rates. So what do we do?

a) raise taxes a huge amount on everybody
b) cut social welfare to almost nothing for everybody
c) fire most of our public sector
d) do a a small amount of all 3 options

Yes, feel free to be angry at the government for getting us to be here; but now that we are here, what do we do?

Gael23 · 11-12-2010 9:20pm

Is there an exemption for people over 70?

Razor60 · 11-12-2010 11:40pm

lets do a few weekly calculations comparing 2010 and 2011.

The new USC will be calculated on a weekly basis.

Those that earn 78 euro or more will pay the charge.

2010 2011
Gross 200 200
Cutoff 700 700
Credit 70 70
Tax 0 0
PRSI 0 0
Levy 0 n/a
USC 0 4.14
Nett Pay 200 195.86

2010 2011
Gross 300 300
Cutoff 700 700
Credit 70 70
Tax 0 0
PRSI 0 0
Levy 6.00 n/a
USC 0 8.14
Nett Pay 294 292.86

2010 2011
Gross 400 400
Cutoff 700 700
Credit 70 70
Tax 10 10
PRSI 16 16
Levy 8 n/a
USC 0 14.90
Nett Pay 366 359.10

2010 2011
Gross 500 500
Cutoff 700 700
Credit 70 70
Tax 30 30
PRSI 20 20
Levy 10 n/a
USC 0 21.90
Nett Pay 440 428.10

2010 2011
Gross 600 600
Cutoff 700 700
Credit 70 70
Tax 50 50
PRSI 42.92 24.00
Levy 12.00 n/a
USC 0 28.90
Nett Pay 495.08 497.10

campbellu · 12-12-2010 6:47pm

The USC has bigger impact on those under 24/25k as outlined by other posters. I took the IERS (public service early retirement)(31 yrs service) last year after very serious calculations about what I could live on. The income levy was then introduced for those earning over 24k on all of the income-that was me-just under 25K. This was €9 a week, now the new charge will be deducted too. I am also to accept a 4% pay/pension decrease-so I must qualify as one of the highest hit. My partner is on an invalidity pension this last 14 years.

I am lucky? my kids are educated and only one still at home (unemployed primary school teacher)-other son is (unemployed Quantity surveyor-with large mortgage and a 7yr old)..my hope is that we can all survive the next few years and support each other.

But I don't see fairness in the measures introduced.

UNIVERSAL SOCIAL CHARGE (USC)

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