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If Work From Home becomes a thing...

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12357…37

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    #122
    Seamai
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,250 ✭✭✭Seamai


    I've been working from home a couple of days a week for the last two years and while I'm not altogether sold on the idea, I loved it at first but when the novelty wore off I realised that it blurred the boundary between work and home life and I don't like that. I also have a boss you somehow doesn't quite get WFH which makes me feel like I'm constantly having to justify it.
    These are only my personal issues but looking at the bigger picture if any glitches can be ironed out and there is no drop in productivity there are plenty of people for whom it will suit, maybe not every day.

    M


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    #123
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No intentions on moving abroad, I just want to sell up my overpriced Dublin box and trade it for a mansion on a plot of land out in the sticks. There are very few places in Ireland that cannot be considered commutable when you only need to commute to the office now and again, maybe 1 day a week or occassionally 2 tops. Traffic is a non issue if you have meetings starting no earlier than 11am. Work from home for a couple of hours before heading on into the office.

    Broadband is the big problem with this plan. Such a shame. With good rural broadband Ireland could become the country to live in when it comes to a modern office and work life balance.


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    #124
    2lazytogetup
    Registered Users Posts: 828 ✭✭✭2lazytogetup


    if we start working from home, not sure why the 9-5pm will continue. some people esp with children at home will want to work early morning or when the kids have gone to bed. esp to save on childcare costs.

    And to take it further, i can see new companies/employers deciding to pay per task/project. So say it was designing a website. they are going to just use a contractor a set amount based on how long it should take. so taking the zero contract hours worker to the next level. And if they bring in universal social payment that everybody gets regardless if they work or not, then i think the working world will be for darwins survival of the fittest. I would worry if i was middle management getting paid to do nothing all day in work.


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    #125
    KaneToad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,181 ✭✭✭KaneToad


    Ultimanemo wrote: »
    Don't worry about that, the greens will find a solution: build a bridge between Ireland and France wide enough for two cycle lanes and two pedestrian paths.

    What!? No space for a grass media ??


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    #126
    mojesius
    Registered Users Posts: 4,324 ✭✭✭mojesius


    I'm praying that my company will give us clearer guidance on long-term wfh options soon. They're still in the 'we're looking into it' phase when asked about it. Before coronavirus, wfh was more of an exception, once a week type allowance.

    Most of my meetings are with colleagues in other countries and timezones, so my schedule is not typical 9-5 and it doesn't really matter if I'm on the office or not. I tend to get more done wfh as I don't have a 3hr round commute (living currently in se Meath).

    We're buying a house this year and are in love with a village in South Wicklow but commuting there and back 4 days a week in traffic isn't sustainable, current commute is bad enough. If current policies remain, we'll have to buy in Dublin, bigger mortgage, less space etc. Would love for our kids to grow up a bit outside the city and to have space and peace.


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    #127
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I work for a large multinational, and even here, WFH is not a straightforward as some would believe it to be. There are substantial insurance implications. If WFH permanently, the organisation will need to assess the workspace being used and ensure that it is appropriately set up. If it cant be appropriately set up, then WFH could be declined. Working from home more than (I think) 40% of the time is even more complicated from an insurance perspective, as both locations need to be insured and tracked as to where you are. Large companies with sophisticated HR and facilities functions will be able to deal with this. Small companies are potentially running a substantial risk if they don't jump through all these hoops and do whatever is needed to ensure that their liability is reduced.

    All that to say, its not as easy as an employer just saying "sure, work from home"


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    #128
    IvoryTower
    Registered Users Posts: 3,825 ✭✭✭IvoryTower


    Deleted User wrote: »

    All that to say, its not as easy as an employer just saying "sure, work from home"


    Thats pretty much what would happen where I work. They're itching for us back though, old school no trust vibes.


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    #129
    Sunny Disposition
    Registered Users Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    I think the huge drift to urbanisation all over the world is going to slow now. For economic reasons it made sense for a long time and now, for the
    medium term at least, it makes sense to have workers in rural rather than urban areas.
    Whether this is good or bad somewhat misses the point, it’s coming and people need to adapt.
    It could help rural Ireland and make Dublin more affordable, but it could see more and more jobs going abroad.


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    #130
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Sunny Disposition wrote: »
    I think the huge drift to urbanisation all over the world is going to slow now. For economic reasons it made sense for a long time and now, for the
    medium term at least, it makes sense to have workers in rural rather than urban areas.
    Whether this is good or bad somewhat misses the point, it’s coming and people need to adapt.
    It could help rural Ireland and make Dublin more affordable, but it could see more and more jobs going abroad.

    The horse bolted a long time ago on saving rural Ireland.

    A way past a bit of WFH saving it.


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    #131
    Sunny Disposition
    Registered Users Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    IvoryTower wrote: »
    Thats pretty much what would happen where I work. They're itching for us back though, old school no trust vibes.

    Would expect a lot of that. Are your employers partly right or a long way off the mark about their workers?
    Another issue is how Councils will be funded, it’s been a while since I ran an office, but could never understand how the way your liability calculated was so crude. If company’s are doing business from their employees homes then the system will have to move with the times. In the short term there could be big enough savings for companies that downsize their offices. In my time in business I found the rates system absolutely stupid and as technology evolved it was becoming less and less for for purpose.


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    #132
    rn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,058 ✭✭✭rn


    beauf wrote: »
    The horse bolted a long time ago on saving rural Ireland.

    A way past a bit of WFH saving it.

    There's a lot of infrastructure and houses that would not take much to put back in action if people wanted them. Excellent broadband being a prerequisite.


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    #133
    Sunny Disposition
    Registered Users Posts: 2,715 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    Be interested to know if ye young people find working from home makes any difference to how much ye get done? One of my sons swears he is doing way more with no colleagues distracting him, a daughter says it is making no real difference.


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    #134
    Electric Sheep
    Registered Users Posts: 2,104 ✭✭✭Electric Sheep


    Sunny Disposition wrote: »
    Be interested to know if ye young people find working from home makes any difference to how much ye get done? One of my sons swears he is doing way more with no colleagues distracting him, a daughter says it is making no real difference.

    It makes a big difference, I get much more done. On the downside I seem to find myself working longer hours.


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    #135
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I work for a large multinational, and even here, WFH is not a straightforward as some would believe it to be. There are substantial insurance implications. If WFH permanently, the organisation will need to assess the workspace being used and ensure that it is appropriately set up. If it cant be appropriately set up, then WFH could be declined. Working from home more than (I think) 40% of the time is even more complicated from an insurance perspective, as both locations need to be insured and tracked as to where you are. Large companies with sophisticated HR and facilities functions will be able to deal with this. Small companies are potentially running a substantial risk if they don't jump through all these hoops and do whatever is needed to ensure that their liability is reduced.

    All that to say, its not as easy as an employer just saying "sure, work from home"

    Sounds more like a company policy than anything. Never heard of this and I know quite a few working from home (some for multinationals) and I work from home lots myself (prior to covid).

    An employer has no responsibly to insure you in you’re own home or look at your workspace. I don’t agree with this myself and I have a dedicated office at home but I know a few people working almost full time from home with a multinational who work on a laptop at their kitchen table.


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    #136
    dubrov
    Registered Users Posts: 3,556 ✭✭✭dubrov


    Keenan Rhythmic Cab wrote:
    An employer has no responsibly to insure you in you’re own home or look at your workspace. I don’t agree with this myself and I have a dedicated office at home but I know a few people working almost full time from home with a multinational who work on a laptop at their kitchen table.

    They do have a responsibility but can get around it by getting you to state that you have assessed your work area and it is suitable for working from home. It exonerates then from subsequent claims.

    If you don't make the statement, you don't get to work from home


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    #137
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    dubrov wrote: »
    They do have a responsibility but can get around it by getting you to state that you have assessed your work area and it is suitable for working from home. It exonerates then from subsequent claims.

    If you don't make the statement, you don't get to work from home

    I’ve never been asked for nor made this statement to my employer.


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    #138
    krissovo
    Registered Users Posts: 2,645 ✭✭✭krissovo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I work for a large multinational, and even here, WFH is not a straightforward as some would believe it to be. There are substantial insurance implications. If WFH permanently, the organisation will need to assess the workspace being used and ensure that it is appropriately set up. If it cant be appropriately set up, then WFH could be declined. Working from home more than (I think) 40% of the time is even more complicated from an insurance perspective, as both locations need to be insured and tracked as to where you are. Large companies with sophisticated HR and facilities functions will be able to deal with this. Small companies are potentially running a substantial risk if they don't jump through all these hoops and do whatever is needed to ensure that their liability is reduced.

    All that to say, its not as easy as an employer just saying "sure, work from home"

    This is BS, you perform a workplace assessment and you pass or fail. If you fail then make the adjustments. The insurance issue is complete fabrication.


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    #139
    rn
    Registered Users Posts: 1,058 ✭✭✭rn


    Companies are definitely on the hook for providing a safe place to work that meets the long term needs of employee, including when they work at home. This requirement can't be waived by the employee making a statement. Employers can use trained h&s expert to evaluate a home office to help discharge liability, but it's not ideal as the work place is outside control of employer.

    An employer simply saying "work from home" is leaving themselves wide open for compensation claims, with no way of discharging their liability.


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    #140
    gnf_ireland
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭gnf_ireland


    krissovo wrote: »
    US companies especially any in the West Coast have been working like this for at least 5 years. Having teams based in Ireland is a good choice due to the time zones. I have flexible hours generally, I often start meetings when I am not travelling at 7 am with Engineering teams in Asia and finish at 08:30. I then get kids ready for school and drop them off. I start again at 10>10:30 and work to 12:30. Start again at 13:15 and work until 3pm have another break to collect kids and then start again at 6pm or 8pm after the kids are in bed and have meetings with California based teams.

    I plan my weekly schedule and block book slots in dairy, if colleagues need to get me they will book a slot and I am available For them. I have never had an issue with being available as we all work in a similar way. The company trusts us to get the job done. If we struggle to book a meeting slot with the whole team for an important meeting we indicate it in the invite and most will make alternate arrangements for the kids. If they cannot make arrangements then often they will have a child on their lap for the meeting.

    @krissovo Absolutely. There of course are companies that allow their employees be flexible today - but mainly because it suits themselves. Having you work from 7am to 8pm with gaps in between suits their business model and its in their interest to do so, as it provides a clean handover between their different time zones.

    Its a different story, for a lot of companies, where they have nothing to gain from offering you that level of flexibility. Yes some will be fine with it, but the majority don't today, and I cannot imagine a total change in attitude across the board in 6 months time either.

    Working from home will be a major step for a lot of companies. I would not bet on having total flexibility in work hours included in the expectations (as standard)


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    #141
    gnf_ireland
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭gnf_ireland


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    The money not spent in urban areas won't be stuffed in the mattress. It will get spent, just in a different location. Money saved on fuel will get spent on other basics, maybe on products with more local economic value than an imported product like petrol.

    I'm a Dub, but Dublin is overloaded. If more shops outside of Dublin get a bigger slice of consumer spending, that's probably a good thing all round. Dublin rents might drop a bit eventually, rents in rural towns might come up a bit.

    I am not sure I said that the money would not be spent :) I said it was bad for urban areas and jobs are likely to be lost in the service area, which is a massive employer in Ireland. Just look at the numbers who availed for the special covid payment the minute the bars & food establishments closed their doors.

    The money is now more likely to be distributed more across the country, and this is likely to protect jobs in a lot of places rather than generate jobs in others. I am not saying its a bad thing - I am saying that there will be an economic impact to this from the governments point of view.

    I am not a Dub, but I do live and work here. I 100% agree that Dublin is overloaded, and we need a migration out of the place before it falls over. This includes everything from infrastructure to schools, to housing to life in general. It would be fantastic for the citizens if this was to happen, but I am willing to bet economically (at least in the short term) it would have negative effects.

    And yes, any drive through any town in Ireland and its pretty obvious they could do with any cash injection a migration out of Dublin would give them - as well as making Dublin more sustainable in the medium term


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    #142
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,095 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Some of you need to go talk with your Financial Controllers before you up sticks and work in another country. There are severe financial implications to your company if you do.
    For example, if you decided to work in India, your company is now liable to pay corporation tax in India, just because you live and work there.


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    #143
    gnf_ireland
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭gnf_ireland


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Broadband is the big problem with this plan. Such a shame. With good rural broadband Ireland could become the country to live in when it comes to a modern office and work life balance.

    Love it or hate it, this is where the National Broadband Plan will make a massive difference. The project will be an absolute game changer when it comes to what people are talking about here, and is the true enabler of the remote working across the board.


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    #144
    gnf_ireland
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭gnf_ireland


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Some of you need to go talk with your Financial Controllers before you up sticks and work in another country. There are severe financial implications to your company if you do.
    For example, if you decided to work in India, your company is now liable to pay corporation tax in India, just because you live and work there.

    Not to mention you need to pay income tax in the country of residence :)


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    #145
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,095 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    gnf_ireland wrote: »
    Not to mention you need to pay income tax in the country of residence :)

    Compared to the potential millions you might cost your employer, I think your (likely lower) income tax rate is negligible!
    Especially if you work for any of the multinationals.


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    #146
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,095 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Going rural would only really work if you were 100% from home.
    If you need to be in the office on an adhoc or even 1 or 2 days a week then it would be a total pain in the arse to have to travel for 3 hours each way IMO.


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    #147
    gnf_ireland
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭gnf_ireland


    Sunny Disposition wrote: »
    Be interested to know if ye young people find working from home makes any difference to how much ye get done? One of my sons swears he is doing way more with no colleagues distracting him, a daughter says it is making no real difference.

    Not sure I fall into the "young people" classification, but when I normally work from home I find it much more productive than in the office. Spend 3 days intensive meetings & workshops in the office and then 2 days being left alone to get stuff done at home.

    Sadly, since we are now all working remotely, the emails come thick and fast all hours of the day and night and my ability to hide away and get stuff done is diminishing. I don't have that nice clean line of out of sight/out of mind, so I have found productivity has greatly reduced. But this is more a cultural thing than a remote working thing.

    Certain people don't work well remotely and at this stage are starting to hit panic stations within my organisation !!


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    #148
    gnf_ireland
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭gnf_ireland


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Going rural would only really work if you were 100% from home.
    If you need to be in the office on an adhoc or even 1 or 2 days a week then it would be a total pain in the arse to have to travel for 3 hours each way IMO.

    I am not sure on this - really depends on the location of the employer. Its very easy to spend 45-60 minutes a day commuting each way, even within Dublin. This does add up. If you have to be in the office a day or two a week, it would probably still be ok to come from places within most of the country (maybe not the back end of Cork, Kerry or Donegal).

    At one point in my life I worked "officially" out of a London office of a company and would pop over once a week or so, either for a day trip or an overnight trip. Was it a pain - absolutely. Was it worth it to spend the rest of the time at home - absolutely !


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    #149
    Granadino
    Registered Users Posts: 729 ✭✭✭Granadino


    I work in digital marketing, and in theory, we could all be working from home all the time, but it's not the case. I am based between here and abroad and would be in the office, under normal circumstances every other month for a week or so. I'm not sure we will be changing to 100% wfh after this is all over, but in theory, could do.


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    #150
    gnf_ireland
    Registered Users Posts: 431 ✭✭gnf_ireland


    2lazytogetup wrote: »
    And to take it further, i can see new companies/employers deciding to pay per task/project. So say it was designing a website. they are going to just use a contractor a set amount based on how long it should take. so taking the zero contract hours worker to the next level. And if they bring in universal social payment that everybody gets regardless if they work or not, then i think the working world will be for darwins survival of the fittest. I would worry if i was middle management getting paid to do nothing all day in work.

    I think we need to be very careful about going down this route in general. While I have no issue with it personally, it is very much a removal of all employee rights and you are basically putting everything up to tender (in effect).

    I have been a contractor for over 2 decades and the volatility in that market is very high. I think you would see a lot of people very very nervous about this model, not just middle management. In general it tends to be a race to the bottom in terms of pricing over time, and very quickly will be outsourced to a country with cheaper labour.


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    #151
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,095 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    gnf_ireland wrote: »
    I am not sure on this - really depends on the location of the employer. Its very easy to spend 45-60 minutes a day commuting each way, even within Dublin. This does add up. If you have to be in the office a day or two a week, it would probably still be ok to come from places within most of the country (maybe not the back end of Cork, Kerry or Donegal).

    At one point in my life I worked "officially" out of a London office of a company and would pop over once a week or so, either for a day trip or an overnight trip. Was it a pain - absolutely. Was it worth it to spend the rest of the time at home - absolutely !

    I'd still rather 60 mins a day than 1 day having a 4 hour commute.
    I also reckon your employer wouldnt see it as their problem that your commute was 4 hours and they would still expect you to be in the office for your normal hours...


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