NEW 2018 Assistant Principal Officer Competition

PBR · 27-08-2018 2:49pm

Riskymove wrote: »

I experienced all these things below PO level

It depends on the Department really, the level of responsibility across grades varies significantly by Department. My current Department would be more PO heavy in terms of Oireachtas committees and the like than below PO level but it does depend.

bobbysands81 · 27-08-2018 5:07pm

ThumbTaxed wrote: »

This thread seems to be more about people bigging themselves up merely for confidence boosts from other posters than the application.

Wow you have 10 years experience. Wow you have managed a small team. Wow you have a degree.

Fill in the application and you can save that rubbish for the interview

Let’s say that’s true... so what?

Surely if posting here gives someone a small boost then that’s a good thing?

BobCat123 · 27-08-2018 8:31pm

Hi,

Applying for this position for the first time..just wondering if someone could clarify this for me please.

On the information booklet,selection process it says that a completion of online assessment questionnaire will take place first and then online assessment test. Are these the same or two different formats?

Thank you

eigrod · 27-08-2018 8:56pm

BobCat123 wrote: »

Hi,

Applying for this position for the first time..just wondering if someone could clarify this for me please.

On the information booklet,selection process it says that a completion of online assessment questionnaire will take place first and then online assessment test. Are these the same or two different formats?

Thank you

Effectively the same. The 1st one you complete at home. Based on scores from that, applicants are called in to complete similar tests in PAS office to verify that the ones completed at home were more or less the same scores achieved by the verified applicant.

quad_red · 28-08-2018 8:46am

I did the 3rd sec tests over the weekend (the more practice the better!) and it’s a new company does them now (I presume they’ll do the AP ones as well).

Different visuals. Each question now had multiple tabs with different charts and data to be answered (on both verbal and numerical reasoning).

Ravelleman · 28-08-2018 9:36am

quad_red wrote: »

I did the 3rd sec tests over the weekend (the more practice the better!) and it’s a new company does them now (I presume they’ll do the AP ones as well).

Different visuals. Each question now had multiple tabs with different charts and data to be answered (on both verbal and numerical reasoning).

They sound like cut-e tests. If so, these have been in use in some competitions since at least 2016.

Skip13 · 29-08-2018 6:22pm

Is there much difference between cut-e and shl?

WAW · 29-08-2018 9:21pm

quad_red wrote: »

I did the 3rd sec tests over the weekend (the more practice the better!) and it’s a new company does them now (I presume they’ll do the AP ones as well).

Different visuals. Each question now had multiple tabs with different charts and data to be answered (on both verbal and numerical reasoning).

Do you have a link to the tests inc Third Secretary?

SFC1895 · 29-08-2018 9:33pm

I was thinking of applying for this, having got through a stage of an internal PO comp recently, but to be honest I’m a below mediocre AO so doubt I’d be up to it

Kournikova · 30-08-2018 10:02am

SFC1895 wrote: »

I was thinking of applying for this, having got through a stage of an internal PO comp recently, but to be honest I’m a below mediocre AO so doubt I’d be up to it

I would apply anyway, as with the 2016 comp you may not even get called for an interview till late 2019 or 2020 depending on how you do in the tests and how batches move, and you'll likely have more experience then anyway to discuss in interview.

I didn't apply in 2016 as I thought I'd be up for it at that point, but wish I had now, even just for the experience at least.

Aglomerado · 30-08-2018 10:55am

Kournikova wrote: »

I would apply anyway, as with the 2016 comp you may not even get called for an interview till late 2019 or 2020 depending on how you do in the tests and how batches move, and you'll likely have more experience then anyway to discuss in interview.

I didn't apply in 2016 as I thought I'd be up for it at that point, but wish I had now, even just for the experience at least.

+1. Apply anyway. I was an EO in 2016 and tried my luck. I got to the interview stage...ok, I failed it but I learnt from the experience and was successful in the later HEO competition.

tattycoram · 30-08-2018 12:29pm

Any idea how to delete a section in the employment history section? I created one more than I need.

I can't face filling in a fresh form. The copying and pasting from my CV is taking me longer than coming up with the answers!

franklyon · 30-08-2018 1:42pm

Just delete the words and leave it blank? I did the Third Secretary tests too and have a preference for that despite the salary being lower, but will give this a crack as well, Have previous management experience of a multi million...ah will leave that for the interview :-)

Aitor and people who are serving AP's any advice on how to prepare for the actual tests, specifically the third part.

gmisk · 30-08-2018 2:06pm

I have been a HEO for a few years so might as well give it a go

Just a quick question under the key achievements (1.Leadership etc) are people putting in one good example in detail for each of the headings or a couple...or as many as possible?

Aitor · 30-08-2018 2:25pm

franklyon wrote: »

Just delete the words and leave it blank? I did the Third Secretary tests too and have a preference for that despite the salary being lower, but will give this a crack as well, Have previous management experience of a multi million...ah will leave that for the interview :-)

Aitor and people who are serving AP's any advice on how to prepare for the actual tests, specifically the third part.

The third part is the job simulation right? No advice I’m afraid, bar thinking about how the modern civil service would expect you to handle a situation. Be prepared to lead, but also to delegate, while not exceeding your brief. I realise those are all in tension with one another, but I suppose that’s the point! Whatever you do, don’t try to give the answer you think they want- give the answer you feel is correct. You’re usually better off that way.

SFC1895 · 30-08-2018 3:48pm

Aglomerado wrote: »

+1. Apply anyway. I was an EO in 2016 and tried my luck. I got to the interview stage...ok, I failed it but I learnt from the experience and was successful in the later HEO competition.

I understand what you’re saying here but I’m struggling as it is and my morale and confidence is through the floor at this point

tigger123 · 31-08-2018 7:22am

SFC1895 wrote: »

I understand what you’re saying here but I’m struggling as it is and my morale and confidence is through the floor at this point

I know what you mean, but you should apply anyway. It could be a year or 18 months before you go to interview, and things could look a little different for you by then.

The only sure way to not get ahead in life is to stop trying!

quad_red · 31-08-2018 10:00am

WAW wrote: »

Do you have a link to the tests inc Third Secretary?

The link I was sent from PAS is a custom link.

But as Ravellman says above it's this company supplied the tests:

https://www.cut-e.com/assessment-solutions/

They don't seem to offer dummy tests to practise on (although when you take the test as always you get one dummy question to mess around on at the start so you know how it works).

WAW · 31-08-2018 10:08am

I'm going to fill in the form today. I'm fine with the Personal Statement and the Additional Questions but the Key Achievements are causing me a bit of bother because I feel I'll be repeating the examples between Key Achievements and Additional Questions. Think I'm just drawing a bit of a blank because I have to draw on examples from previous work from several years ago ( took time out of workplace). If anyone can point me to a good link to any tips, I'd be grateful. TIA

Max Mustermann · 01-09-2018 1:47pm

New poster/ long time follower of the 2016 thread. Huge thanks for all the advice and info. Any thoughts on what to do with the checkbox at the end of the form? If I hover over it, it says "check to exclude this section" (or something like that) which I assume refers to the Declaration that follows so I'm thinking no I don't want to exclude it, but then when I save the form an error pops up about GDPR unless I check the checkbox, although there is no mention of GDPR on the form. TIA

ThumbTaxed · 01-09-2018 7:42pm

SFC1895 wrote: »

I was thinking of applying for this, having got through a stage of an internal PO comp recently, but to be honest I’m a below mediocre AO so doubt I’d be up to it

I'd put you at favourite so

WAW · 01-09-2018 7:59pm

How much Irish is in reality required for functional Irish? What kind of extra interview/ test is required for the Irish stream?

Crunchymomma · 01-09-2018 10:51pm

gmisk wrote: »

I have been a HEO for a few years so might as well give it a go

Just a quick question under the key achievements (1.Leadership etc) are people putting in one good example in detail for each of the headings or a couple...or as many as possible?

I'm doing one but I might regret it later ha

The_Conductor · 02-09-2018 8:43am

WAW wrote: »

How much Irish is in reality required for functional Irish? What kind of extra interview/ test is required for the Irish stream?

I had a PAS interview 'as Gaeilge'- where I was fully expected to be able to hold a coherent conversation, discuss current affairs- and give an opinion on various items in the media. There were no trick questions- it was a straight forward conversation- and to be honest- the two interviewers (there wasn't a PAS representative at my interview), couldn't have been nicer.

Functional Irish does not mean Gaeilge fluirseach. It means you have more than enough to get by and hold a conversation or do an interview- if you're called upon to do so.

I'm no longer in a post that is tagged as requiring Irish- I did however end up as the Irish language officer in a Department who had a sizable number of customers who'd rather conduct their business in Irish- which did me a favour in many respects- as I became familiar with the work of many of the Divisions in the Department that would otherwise have taken a lifetime to get to know.

Functional Irish = able to hold a reasonable conversation or take part in an interview as Gaeilge- without panicking..........

WAW · 02-09-2018 9:09am

The_Conductor wrote: »

I had a PAS interview 'as Gaeilge'- where I was fully expected to be able to hold a coherent conversation, discuss current affairs- and give an opinion on various items in the media. There were no trick questions- it was a straight forward conversation- and to be honest- the two interviewers (there wasn't a PAS representative at my interview), couldn't have been nicer.

Functional Irish does not mean Gaeilge fluirseach. It means you have more than enough to get by and hold a conversation or do an interview- if you're called upon to do so.

I'm no longer in a post that is tagged as requiring Irish- I did however end up as the Irish language officer in a Department who had a sizable number of customers who'd rather conduct their business in Irish- which did me a favour in many respects- as I became familiar with the work of many of the Divisions in the Department that would otherwise have taken a lifetime to get to know.

Functional Irish = able to hold a reasonable conversation or take part in an interview as Gaeilge- without panicking..........

Would it be an interview a bit like an honours LC Irish Oral as in general topics of conversation or an interview like a job interview: competencies, etc.? I don't use my Gaeilge much but with a bit of practice could chat about a number of topics as I did a two year part time college course in Irish for work (9 years ago I'll admit!). But the Irish is in there! Would that be sufficient for you think?
I would not be suitable for an Irish language officer post but would feel comfortable doing a basic interview ( with mistakes) in Irish.

The_Conductor · 02-09-2018 10:17am

WAW wrote: »

Would it be an interview a bit like an honours LC Irish Oral as in general topics of conversation or an interview like a job interview: competencies, etc.? I don't use my Gaeilge much but with a bit of practice could chat about a number of topics as I did a two year part time college course in Irish for work (9 years ago I'll admit!). But the Irish is in there! Would that be sufficient for you think?
I would not be suitable for an Irish language officer post but would feel comfortable doing a basic interview ( with mistakes) in Irish.

General topics *not the competencies*
Best possible advice- watch the Nuacht on TG4 for a few weeks alongside the Irish sections in the papers- and use a proper foclóir to look up any words you don't know.
It is a bit like riding a bicycle- a lot of it will come back to you after a few days- but it will take some effort.........

A lot of places have coffee mornings as-Gaeilge- where you can practice your spoken Irish- which might help too.

I.e. you have to be able to hold a reasonable conversation in Irish and discuss current topics (including personal questions- and why you want the job etc)- but it is straight forward- they're not trying to trick you or trip you up- and if you don't understand a question- they're quite happy to rephrase it- and they honestly want to help you- if you have Irish- they will get it out of you- if you don't have Irish- it'll be blatantly obvious. Its a mechanism to get rid of the candidates who just put a tick in the box- and aren't able to hold a conversation in Irish.

You'll be fine.........

Stheno · 02-09-2018 4:00pm

ThumbTaxed wrote: »

I'd put you at favourite so

Mod

Ok that's enough. Don't post in this thread again

starbiscuit · 02-09-2018 5:13pm

Hi everyone,

I'm struggling with this form. Can anyone give me some guidance as to the difference between the Key achievements section and the additional questions? For example Part B 3, asks for management and delivery of results including drive and committment and one of the additional questions you to outline significant management experience , including leading teams etc. I find myself basically writing the same thing in each. Any thoughts welcomed

brownbinman · 03-09-2018 11:48am

Anyone know when the tests have to be finished by? Headed to Germany the Friday they are released and don't want to be dying doing them when I get back

WAW · 03-09-2018 11:57am

brownbinman wrote: »

Anyone know when the tests have to be finished by? Headed to Germany the Friday they are released and don't want to be dying doing them when I get back

3pm Thursday 6th September application deadline. Aptitude tests thereafter not sure as I haven't submitted my application yet.

Crunchymomma · 03-09-2018 12:52pm

brownbinman wrote: »

Anyone know when the tests have to be finished by? Headed to Germany the Friday they are released and don't want to be dying doing them when I get back

It says 21-26 September on info booklet

brownbinman · 03-09-2018 12:56pm

Crunchymomma wrote: »

It says 21-26 September on info booklet

Lovely thanks

PhoenixParker · 03-09-2018 1:30pm

I'd recommend downloading the booklet and saving it somewhere handy. It's a useful reference to have to hand n 2 months time when you can't remember the order of the stages.

Crunchymomma · 03-09-2018 1:39pm

PhoenixParker wrote: »

I'd recommend downloading the booklet and saving it somewhere handy. It's a useful reference to have to hand n 2 months time when you can't remember the order of the stages.

Totally agree, you never know when you will want to look back on it

The Scientician · 03-09-2018 4:03pm

Best of luck to everyone applying. If you think there's a possibility you could get it and you want it, I would encourage you to apply.

Q3 on the application form says "Please outline significant experience you have had in policy development/analysis and the provision of advice (if any):" Is this a new question? I don't recall seeing it on the AP 2016 form.

CBCB · 03-09-2018 4:55pm

never_mind wrote: »

Mine are fine as answers but they each only have maybe 150-200 words in each block. Trying to be concise!

I think concise is better, if you can cover off what is asked. But that's just my opinion.

dee75 · 03-09-2018 9:19pm

The Scientician wrote: »

Best of luck to everyone applying. If you think there's a possibility you could get it and you want it, I would encourage you to apply.

Q3 on the application form says "Please outline significant experience you have had in policy development/analysis and the provision of advice (if any):" Is this a new question? I don't recall seeing it on the AP 2016 form.

Yeah that's a new one!

WAW · 03-09-2018 9:37pm

For anyone who has done the EO tests, how different are the verbal & numerical tests for AP?

RunRoryRun · 03-09-2018 10:02pm

Application in

gmisk · 04-09-2018 10:27am

I am at 15 pages now.....Key achievements answer are big....
My additional questions are fairly small though

Crunchymomma · 04-09-2018 12:56pm

Application is gone in :-)

quad_red · 04-09-2018 1:35pm

The Scientician wrote: »

Best of luck to everyone applying. If you think there's a possibility you could get it and you want it, I would encourage you to apply.

Q3 on the application form says "Please outline significant experience you have had in policy development/analysis and the provision of advice (if any):" Is this a new question? I don't recall seeing it on the AP 2016 form.

Having issues with that myself.

It’s so niche. Seems like unless you’re a very lucky AO that’s really going to strip our a lot of potential candidates.

Aglomerado · 04-09-2018 1:40pm

quad_red wrote: »

Having issues with that myself.

It’s so niche. Seems like unless you’re a very lucky AO that’s really going to strip our a lot of potential candidates.

If it's any consolation, that same question appeared on the 2017 HEO form.
I wrote that I had not had policy experience & it didn't count against me at interview as I was successful in that competition.
Now as a HEO some of the work I've done does go to inform policy so at least I could write a line or two.

PhoenixParker · 04-09-2018 1:49pm

My guess it's to help rebalance the competition for people who are more on the policy end of things. AOs and even some HEOs. It helps people who have less on the leadership side of things with few direct reports but plenty of experience dealing with the overall high level departmental stuff.

coloneldecker · 04-09-2018 4:36pm

gmisk wrote: »

I am at 15 pages now.....Key achievements answer are big....
My additional questions are fairly small though

That seems way too big.

quad_red · 04-09-2018 8:28pm

gmisk wrote: »

I am at 15 pages now.....Key achievements answer are big....
My additional questions are fairly small though

I'm at 17 pages in total... I got criticised last time for not working my examples through properly.

Crunchymomma · 04-09-2018 8:30pm

gmisk wrote: »

I am at 15 pages now.....Key achievements answer are big....
My additional questions are fairly small though

Mine was 17/18 pages I think by the end

PhoenixParker · 04-09-2018 8:46pm

The final page count is a bit meaningless. Some of us might have eight pages of jobs while others have 2. I've about a page on each of the four competency questions and half a page or thereabouts on the others. I felt that was enough to tick the sub-competency boxes well with my own examples. I'm no expert though.

No point worrying about it now it's in.

Crunchymomma · 04-09-2018 8:55pm

PhoenixParker wrote: »

The final page count is a bit meaningless. Some of us might have eight pages of jobs while others have 2. I've about a page on each of the four competency questions and half a page or thereabouts on the others. I felt that was enough to tick the sub-competency boxes well with my own examples. I'm no expert though.

No point worrying about it now it's in.

Too true, I'm just glad I managed to get it all done tbh!

Jentle Grenade · 04-09-2018 9:06pm

PhoenixParker wrote: »

The final page count is a bit meaningless. Some of us might have eight pages of jobs while others have 2. I've about a page on each of the four competency questions and half a page or thereabouts on the others. I felt that was enough to tick the sub-competency boxes well with my own examples. I'm no expert though.

No point worrying about it now it's in.

Utterly pointless to worry or be hung up on the page count. You need to be adept at making your point efficiently in these application forms, remember that someone is going to be reading a lot of them. I went to AP in DFAT with 12 pages (really 11.5).

NEW 2018 Assistant Principal Officer Competition

Comments