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EV charging infrastructure to become mandatory for new houses and major renovations

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  • 06-12-2019 10:37am
    #1
    woohoo!!!
    Registered Users Posts: 803 ✭✭✭


    A public consultation has been launched to change building regulations for electrical vehicle recharging infrastructure in new buildings and major renovations and also for storage heaters in buildings.

    It's talking about providing charging points for all houses with their own driveway, minimum percentages for shared parking, for shops and businesses. Quite a lot of information in the link below. What to people think?

    My own one is that its postive but I'd be wary about too much clutter on narrow streets from the bulkier ones, they can look ugly and restrict pedestrians on paths (i.e. they need to be smaller bollard types , 1 meter for a number of charging points, minimum of 2 charging points etc to take up less space). Norway for example is way ahead of the curve here so there are things to learn.

    https://www.housing.gov.ie/housing/building-standards/energy-performance-buildings/public-consultation-review-building


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    #2
    eddhorse
    Registered Users Posts: 5,780 ✭✭✭eddhorse


    woohoo!!! wrote: »
    A public consultation has been launched to change building regulations for electrical vehicle recharging infrastructure in new buildings and major renovations and also for storage heaters in buildings.

    It's talking about providing charging points for all houses with their own driveway, minimum percentages for shared parking, for shops and businesses. Quite a lot of information in the link below. What to people think?

    My own one is that its postive but I'd be wary about too much clutter on narrow streets from the bulkier ones, they can look ugly and restrict pedestrians on paths (i.e. they need to be smaller bollard types , 1 meter for a number of charging points, minimum of 2 charging points etc to take up less space). Norway for example is way ahead of the curve here so there are things to learn.

    https://www.housing.gov.ie/housing/building-standards/energy-performance-buildings/public-consultation-review-building

    Good idea ! In relation to the clutter of chargers, it should be use your own cable so there are no trip cables when not in use.


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    #3
    Dardania
    Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Dardania


    Great find - I shall send in a submission.

    From my first reading of part L, it seems a bit wishy washy.
    I welcome that they say a charging point needed per parking space, but it's not enough to just say ducting needs to be installed. And not even a drawire at that.
    And also, the tough bit is in relation to the elec infrastructure behind - is there enough power on site? Are there enough spare ways to fit breakers? What is the min power rating needed at each car - 6A?
    This is too easy to ignore for the cost of 12mm ducting.

    Edit: there seems to be a link in the documents which points to an EU directive, which references 3.7kW. At least that...


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    #4
    liamog
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 7,815 Mod ✭✭✭✭liamog


    Dardania wrote: »
    Great find - I shall send in a submission.

    From my first reading of part L, it seems a bit wishy washy.
    I welcome that they say a charging point needed per parking space, but it's not enough to just say ducting needs to be installed. And not even a drawire at that.
    And also, the tough bit is in relation to the elec infrastructure behind - is there enough power on site? Are there enough spare ways to fit breakers? What is the min power rating needed at each car - 6A?
    This is too easy to ignore for the cost of 12mm ducting.

    Edit: there seems to be a link in the documents which points to an EU directive, which references 3.7kW. At least that...

    I'd prefer ducting installed instead of builders cheaping out and installing a 16A cable.


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    #5
    godtabh
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,204 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    woohoo!!! wrote: »
    A public consultation has been launched to change building regulations for electrical vehicle recharging infrastructure in new buildings and major renovations and also for storage heaters in buildings.

    It's talking about providing charging points for all houses with their own driveway, minimum percentages for shared parking, for shops and businesses. Quite a lot of information in the link below. What to people think?

    My own one is that its postive but I'd be wary about too much clutter on narrow streets from the bulkier ones, they can look ugly and restrict pedestrians on paths (i.e. they need to be smaller bollard types , 1 meter for a number of charging points, minimum of 2 charging points etc to take up less space). Norway for example is way ahead of the curve here so there are things to learn.

    https://www.housing.gov.ie/housing/building-standards/energy-performance-buildings/public-consultation-review-building

    Thats standard in any planning application i've done for the last 2 years.

    All houses ducted to allow future upgrade. All external spaces ducted and 10% of spaces will have ev charge points.


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    #6
    woohoo!!!
    Registered Users Posts: 803 ✭✭✭woohoo!!!


    godtabh wrote: »
    Thats standard in any planning application i've done for the last 2 years.

    All houses ducted to allow future upgrade. All external spaces ducted and 10% of spaces will have ev charge points.
    Makes sense


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    #7
    charlieIRL
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 7,190 Mod ✭✭✭✭charlieIRL


    Provisions for EV charging is being put into conditions for commercial planning applications now as well. Ducting has to be put down in the entire car park and a minimum 10% of spaces have to be wired for chargers.


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    #8
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,526 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    As above. This is all happening currently on apartment blocks in Dublin that I’m involved in.


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    #9
    McGiver
    Registered Users Posts: 4,424 ✭✭✭McGiver


    charlieIRL wrote:
    Provisions for EV charging is being put into conditions for commercial planning applications now as well. Ducting has to be put down in the entire car park and a minimum 10% of spaces have to be wired for chargers.
    I think the larger issue is with existing estates.


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    #10
    PixelTrawler
    Registered Users Posts: 2,299 ✭✭✭PixelTrawler


    Three phase supply should be standard also. Would allow 22kw home chargers


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    #11
    Dardania
    Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Dardania


    PixelTrawler wrote: »
    Three phase supply should be standard also. Would allow 22kw home chargers

    To what end? Why do people need to recharge that much range at a time?


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    #12
    McGiver
    Registered Users Posts: 4,424 ✭✭✭McGiver


    Dardania wrote:
    To what end? Why do people need to recharge that much range at a time?
    2 (or more) EV households?


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    #13
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,077 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    PixelTrawler wrote: »
    Three phase supply should be standard also. Would allow 22kw home chargers

    Are you planning on buying a 200kWh Tesla Roadster or something?

    You dont need 22kW charging at home.

    Single phase is fine for charging two EV's at night unless you are an edge case with two EV's doing massive high mileage everyday.


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    #14
    PixelTrawler
    Registered Users Posts: 2,299 ✭✭✭PixelTrawler


    KCross wrote: »
    Are you planning on buying a 200kWh Tesla Roadster or something?

    You dont need 22kW charging at home.

    Single phase is fine for charging two EV's at night unless you are an edge case with two EV's doing massive high mileage everyday.

    The edge case you describe could rapidly become the norm.

    Future proofing.
    Most houses are 2 car households. By 2030 most cars will be EV. Having more power on tap would be a good thing I would have thought.
    A lot of people commute long distances. The need to charge possibly 2 large batteries over night may not be the exception.


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    #15
    Dardania
    Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Dardania


    PixelTrawler wrote: »
    The edge case you describe could rapidly become the norm.

    Future proofing.
    Most houses are 2 car households. By 2030 most cars will be EV. Having more power on tap would be a good thing I would have thought.
    A lot of people commute long distances. The need to charge possibly 2 large batteries over night may not be the exception.

    Well, two ways of dealing with this problem:

    Have a high speed charger, and charge the cars sequentially

    Have 2 normal speed chargers, and charge them in parallel


    PixelTrawler is going for option 1. I personally think this is a wrong solution - it stresses the batteries out, presents a peak demand on the grid (even if you don't need to charge 2 cars), and most importantly, requires me to walk outside in the middle of the night to move one car to plug in another.

    My preferred solution to this valid problem is option 2, for the inverse justifications to the above criticisms. Yeah, it's slower, and requires a 2 bay driveway


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    #16
    timsey tiger
    Registered Users Posts: 1,768 ✭✭✭timsey tiger


    PixelTrawler wrote: »
    The edge case you describe could rapidly become the norm.

    Future proofing.
    Most houses are 2 car households. By 2030 most cars will be EV. Having more power on tap would be a good thing I would have thought.
    A lot of people commute long distances. The need to charge possibly 2 large batteries over night may not be the exception.

    Relatively few people commute long distances. Most peoples commute and general usage means that most evs will only need to be charged once or twice a week at most.


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    #17
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,077 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    PixelTrawler wrote: »
    The edge case you describe could rapidly become the norm.

    Future proofing.
    Most houses are 2 car households. By 2030 most cars will be EV. Having more power on tap would be a good thing I would have thought.
    A lot of people commute long distances. The need to charge possibly 2 large batteries over night may not be the exception.

    Two EV's charging together at night will very much become the norm but two EV's both doing such massive mileage that they'd require 22kW charging for 9hrs each everyday is very unlikely to become the norm.

    If it does become the norm it means you have two people commuting daily from Cork-Dublin or Dublin-Galway etc. If thats the future you are expecting we are in for a terrible future! ;)

    Just to give you some perspective...
    Charging two EV's at the current norm of 7kW each can be easily enough done in current households on single phase during the 9hr night rate hours.

    7kWx9hrs= ~60kWh

    60kWh is like a long range Kia eNiro with a range of 400km+

    So, you can already charge two long range eNiro's every night.


    You could have an edge case, of course, like some rich person with two 100kWh Model X's or an eTron, in which case they'd need 3ph then if they were driving them to empty everyday... but its very much an edge case. Not required for the masses.


    TL;DR: Would it be great if we all had 3ph 22kW home charging. Yes. Is it required. No!


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    #18
    Dardania
    Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Dardania


    KCross wrote: »
    Two EV's charging together at night will very much become the norm but two EV's both doing such massive mileage that they'd require 22kW charging for 9hrs each everyday is very unlikely to become the norm.

    If it does become the norm it means you have two people commuting daily from Cork-Dublin or Dublin-Galway etc. If thats the future you are expecting we are in for a terrible future! ;)

    Just to give you some perspective...
    Charging two EV's at the current norm of 7kW each can be easily enough done in current households on single phase during the 9hr night rate hours.

    7kWx9hrs= ~60kWh

    60kWh is like a long range Kia eNiro with a range of 400km+

    So, you can already charge two long range eNiro's every night.


    You could have an edge case, of course, like some rich person with two 100kWh Model X's or an eTron, in which case they'd need 3ph then if they were driving them to empty everyday... but its very much an edge case. Not required for the masses.


    TL;DR: Would it be great if we all had 3ph 22kW home charging. Yes. Is it required. No!

    Do many cars have onboard chargers able to handle 22kW? Only the Zoe I knew about? Or maybe some of the newer VAG models?


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    #19
    KCross
    Registered Users Posts: 12,077 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    Dardania wrote: »
    Do many cars have onboard chargers able to handle 22kW? Only the Zoe I knew about? Or maybe some of the newer VAG models?

    I think the Zoe and Model S/X are the only ones that could do 22kW AC.

    However, the next batch of EV's seem to be getting 3ph 11kW capability (probably as an optional extra). Some, like the i3, already have that.


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    #20
    Dardania
    Registered Users Posts: 3,612 ✭✭✭Dardania


    KCross wrote: »
    I think the Zoe and Model S/X are the only ones that could do 22kW AC.

    However, the next batch of EV's seem to be getting 3ph 11kW capability (probably as an optional extra). Some, like the i3, already have that.

    There's merit to having faster charge capability at home for smaller batteried cars (like I have a 80km round trip this evening, after my normal commute home. I'll need to charge up what I can for the hour or two I'll be at home). But 22kW is a massive power draw, which most people won't need


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