Perceptions about Ireland that people just assume but aren't true

maninasia · 25-05-2020 2:37pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

its indeed a beautiful country but im not sure id agree that its especially diverse

new zealand is incredibly diverse , spectacular landscapes , ireland has more gentle scenery

It does..But then it doesn't have the castles and the ancient ruins and prehistoric monuments. So it's all swings and roundabouts.

ShatterAlan · 25-05-2020 2:38pm

Blaze420 wrote: »

This - the fact they think we drink drink drink and they still have the neck to think they’d take any of us Irish pint for pint. American bravado is a big player but put any yank in front of me and they’ll be passed out with a pants full of **** and piss before I even contemplate calling it a night....

Probably even before you take your first trip to the jacks :pac:

FVP3 · 25-05-2020 2:40pm

mdudy wrote: »

Have you set foot in the North?

He was talking about the republic though, clearly. The North being a different country. Nobody would deny the union jack gets a lot of love there.

joe40 · 25-05-2020 2:42pm

fortwilliam wrote: »

A slightly different slant on this, The idea that Irish people have that we are famous all over the world, everyone loves the Irish...

Through my profession and my passion for travel, I have been all over the world.
With the exception of the obvious, UK/Large cities in Aus/Us, Most populations know nothing (And couldn't care less) about Ireland/Irish people.
Very evident in America, where outside of NY/Chicago etc, people know Guinness & Leprechauns come from that little English island near France somewhere... oh, and their Grand-daddy was from Ireland, or maybe Poland.

Literally, that is the common knowledge of us & our land.

I can easily imagine that to be true, we probably think we are better known than we are.
At the same time for our size, a small country on the fringes of Europe, I think the our global reach is quite high. Obviously that comes down to immigration to English speaking countries, but a I think general sense of Irishness even if it is the sterotypes, would be better known on a global stage than for example Belgium.
I haven't travelled extensively so could be wrong here.

ILoveYourVibes · 25-05-2020 2:46pm

FVP3 wrote: »

Its insane that anybody would think differently. You just have to look at the national days of other countries, the pomp and ceremony to see that.

Generally the people who do think that we are nationalistic tend to transfer their nationalism to some other entity, generally the UK or the US.

Our reaction to the deep rigid nationalism is apathy.

whisky_galore · 25-05-2020 3:17pm

maninasia wrote: »

It does..But then it doesn't have the castles and the ancient ruins and prehistoric monuments. So it's all swings and roundabouts.

Does a country have to have those things, does it matter?
NZ had culture and civilisation before a bunch of guys from Europe 'discovered' them.

ILoveYourVibes · 25-05-2020 3:25pm

That there is no class system.

FVP3 · 25-05-2020 3:35pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

Does a country have to have those things, does it matter?

You were talking about tourism though, and therefore it is relevant to some of the tourist market.

NZ had culture and civilisation before a bunch of guys from Europe 'discovered' them.

Not selling New Zealand there.

1 sheep2 · 25-05-2020 3:35pm

FVP3 wrote: »

Well to be fair knowing the island that invaded them, and therefore assuming people also know the one beside that one isn't that much a stretch, at least for educated people. This isn't the same as expecting them to know anything about the politics.

The idea that we have a exaggerated view of our own importance is the exact opposite of the truth, in fact we are the most self critical country in the West. As is fairly clear by this thread. The term "great little country" is only ever said as satire, while our friends in Great Britain and MAGA land use "great" unironically, albeit mostly in terms of getting their countries back to that condition again, these days.

I have such contempt for your views that I'm not even going to bother engaging.

FVP3 · 25-05-2020 3:36pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

That there is no class system.

Wow. A proper answer. Yes, we often think we have no class system and of course we do. Maybe it is less overt than the british or the US, for different reasons, but definitely there.

FVP3 · 25-05-2020 3:38pm

1 sheep2 wrote: »

I have such contempt for your views that I'm not even going to bother engaging.

That is just another failure of your ability to express yourself, or throw a coherent sentence together.

I mean, I also have contempt for your anti-Irish views, but I prefer defeating them with logic and discussion. Which is what we are here for.

ILoveYourVibes · 25-05-2020 3:43pm

We are always up for the craic. We sometimes are. Sometimes we like sleep.

ILoveYourVibes · 25-05-2020 3:45pm

All of us are pale.

HalloweenJack · 25-05-2020 3:47pm

Not read the whole thread so apologies if its been mentioned.

One that I've noticed and that is quite disappointing, given the importance we place on it:

The assumption that we are British and genuine surprise that we get offended by it.

I have heard Irish celebrities being referred to as Brits by Americans so many times that it wrecks my head.

I have met some English people that don't get that we are different or that didn't know we are independent. I had one tell me that she could "forgive" Irish people because it seems the IRA were over, yet she didn't know anything about collusion or who the UVF/LVF are.

In Spain, I have met plenty of people who think that Ireland is just a region of the UK and that we are a regional variety of English people. There are some who are genuinely not aware while there a certain bunch who think of Ireland as being the same as the Basque Country or Catalonia. These people more often than not would be of the opinion that those regions are Spanish and people who want them to be independent are just agitators who are inventing languages and rewriting history.

alan partridge aha · 25-05-2020 3:48pm

That we are a nation of saints and scholars.

ILoveYourVibes · 25-05-2020 3:49pm

HalloweenJack wrote: »

Not read the whole thread so apologies if its been mentioned.

One that I've noticed and that is quite disappointing, given the importance we place on it:

The assumption that we are British and genuine surprise that we get offended by it.

I have heard Irish celebrities being referred to as Brits by Americans so many times that it wrecks my head.

I have met some English people that don't get that we are different or that didn't know we are independent. I had one tell me that she could "forgive" Irish people because it seems the IRA were over, yet she didn't know anything about collusion or who the UVF/LVF are.

In Spain, I have met plenty of people who think that Ireland is just a region of the UK and that we are a regional variety of English people. There are some who are genuinely not aware while there a certain bunch who think of Ireland as being the same as the Basque Country or Catalonia. These people more often than not would be of the opinion that those regions are Spanish and people who want them to be independent are just agitators who are inventing languages and rewriting history.

There are some Basques and Catalans that genuinely think of themselves as Spanish. Its more complex than people think.

ILoveYourVibes · 25-05-2020 3:51pm

alan partridge aha wrote: »

That we are a nation of saints and scholars.

I am not sure anyone really has that perception! But no we are not.

ILoveYourVibes · 25-05-2020 3:53pm

Also not only that there is no class system. But that there is no Irish upper class or middle class.

I think in the UK they genuinely think all Irish people are working class.

FVP3 · 25-05-2020 3:55pm

1 sheep2 wrote: »

I have no doubt that I am more intelligent and better spoken than you.

I have no doubt that you aren't the first or are hiding it really well, and the latter is a social construct. Who knows? I am from the northside so no doubt you would see yourself as better spoken.

But even if that weren't obvious, my sentences are entirely coherent. What a pathetic attempt at criticism.

It isn't in the least bit obvious. You literally fail to argue the point, and just say you are contemptuous at any argument that isn't aligned with yours.

That said, I should have said that your argument, not your sentence structure. is incoherent.

Cal4567 · 25-05-2020 3:59pm

joe40 wrote: »

I can easily imagine that to be true, we probably think we are better known than we are.
At the same time for our size, a small country on the fringes of Europe, I think the our global reach is quite high. Obviously that comes down to immigration to English speaking countries, but a I think general sense of Irishness even if it is the sterotypes, would be better known on a global stage than for example Belgium.
I haven't travelled extensively so could be wrong here.

I have travelled extensively and can confirm this is true. Yes, we are better known on the global stage than Belguim but it is stereotypical. There are irish Bars literallly everywhere.

Found that too travelling my way around the US. The average yank did not have a clue about us. Then again the average six pack joe didn't have much of a handle about what was going on in their next State, never mind over here.

FVP3 · 25-05-2020 4:00pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Also not only that there is no class system. But that there is no Irish upper class or middle class.

I think in the UK they genuinely think all Irish people are working class.

I remember an article in the Daily Mail where they described Michelle Dockery, who played Lady Mary in Downton Abbey, as from a long line of Irish workers and peasants. I don't think they investigated her genealogy.

HalloweenJack · 25-05-2020 4:01pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

There are some Basques and Catalans that genuinely think of themselves as Spanish. Its more complex than people think.

I am well aware of this.

However, there is a layer of Spanish society who cannot fathom that anyone from those regions could consider themselves as being as anything other than Spanish first and foremost and dismiss any suggestion that it could be possible. These people then apply this vision to other countries and don't see how Scots would want to leave the UK or why Ireland isn't part of the UK.

ILoveYourVibes · 25-05-2020 4:02pm

FVP3 wrote: »

I remember an article in the Daily Mail where they described Michelle Dockery, who played Lady Mary, as from a long line of Irish workers and peasants. I don't think they investigated her genealogy.

I have no idea who she is!

ILoveYourVibes · 25-05-2020 4:04pm

HalloweenJack wrote: »

I am well aware of this.

However, there is a layer of Spanish society who cannot fathom that anyone from those regions could consider themselves as being as anything other than Spanish first and foremost and dismiss any suggestion that it could be possible. These people then apply this vision to other countries and don't see how Scots would want to leave the UK or why Ireland isn't part of the UK.

There are all views. Same as here.

Cal4567 · 25-05-2020 4:05pm

HalloweenJack wrote: »

Not read the whole thread so apologies if its been mentioned.

One that I've noticed and that is quite disappointing, given the importance we place on it:

The assumption that we are British and genuine surprise that we get offended by it.

I have heard Irish celebrities being referred to as Brits by Americans so many times that it wrecks my head.

I have met some English people that don't get that we are different or that didn't know we are independent. I had one tell me that she could "forgive" Irish people because it seems the IRA were over, yet she didn't know anything about collusion or who the UVF/LVF are.

In Spain, I have met plenty of people who think that Ireland is just a region of the UK and that we are a regional variety of English people. There are some who are genuinely not aware while there a certain bunch who think of Ireland as being the same as the Basque Country or Catalonia. These people more often than not would be of the opinion that those regions are Spanish and people who want them to be independent are just agitators who are inventing languages and rewriting history.

We must have been talking to the very same people in England. But why would they have any knowledge about us? We know a lot about them due to the UK media which is easily accessible for us. No reason for them to watch RTE if they had access to it.

ILoveYourVibes · 25-05-2020 4:06pm

Cal4567 wrote: »

We must have been talking to the very same people in England. But why would they have any knowledge about us? We know a lot about them due to the UK media which is easily accessible for us. No reason for them to watch RTE if they had access to it.

I would expect them to know we aren't British. Not about us per say ..but just at least that.

HalloweenJack · 25-05-2020 4:14pm

Cal4567 wrote: »

We must have been talking to the very same people in England. But why would they have any knowledge about us? We know a lot about them due to the UK media which is easily accessible for us. No reason for them to watch RTE if they had access to it.

An interest in the history of their country would give them some answers. Whatever their take on what happened, it would still state the facts as they are now: that twenty-six of the thirty-two counties of the island of Ireland are not part of the United Kingdom.

In the case of the one who knew who the IRA were: If there was a terrorist organisation attacking your country, surely you'd want to find out what their reason for doing it was? You don't have to agree with them, just do a bit of research and find out why.

Rodin · 25-05-2020 4:14pm

fortwilliam wrote: »

A slightly different slant on this, The idea that Irish people have that we are famous all over the world, everyone loves the Irish...

Through my profession and my passion for travel, I have been all over the world.
With the exception of the obvious, UK/Large cities in Aus/Us, Most populations know nothing (And couldn't care less) about Ireland/Irish people.
Very evident in America, where outside of NY/Chicago etc, people know Guinness & Leprechauns come from that little English island near France somewhere... oh, and their Grand-daddy was from Ireland, or maybe Poland.

Literally, that is the common knowledge of us & our land.

I wouldn't take it personally.
Most Americans have never left their own country and know eff all about the outside world.

Rodin · 25-05-2020 4:15pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Also not only that there is no class system. But that there is no Irish upper class or middle class.

I think in the UK they genuinely think all Irish people are working class.

Lucky they haven't met our non-working class

Ipso · 25-05-2020 4:23pm

Rodin wrote: »

I wouldn't take it personally.
Most Americans have never left their own country and know eff all about the outside world.

Why should they know anything about Ireland? How knowledgeable are Irish people about Austria, Switzerland, Estonia, Slovakia etc

Rodin · 25-05-2020 4:25pm

Ipso wrote: »

Why should they know anything about Ireland? How knowledgeable are Irish people about Austria, Switzerland, Estonia, Slovakia etc

My point is they don't know about anywhere.
Despite two wars Id say few could pick out Iraq on a map.

Rothko · 25-05-2020 4:30pm

mdudy wrote: »

Have you set foot in the North?

He's not talking about the North

WesternZulu · 25-05-2020 4:37pm

HalloweenJack wrote: »

An interest in the history of their country would give them some answers. Whatever their take on what happened, it would still state the facts as they are now: that twenty-six of the thirty-two counties of the island of Ireland are not part of the United Kingdom.

In the case of the one who knew who the IRA were: If there was a terrorist organisation attacking your country, surely you'd want to find out what their reason for doing it was? You don't have to agree with them, just do a bit of research and find out why.

Exactly, some sort of curiosity would mean they would question what Ireland is split in two etc and find out from that learn that we're not part of the UK.
However, I lived over there and to be fair they know nothing of Ireland. Most think it's part of the UK - generally haven't a clue.

In a way I can't blame them, I think Irish History Podcast have an episode that's very good that explores this and went through the A Level history book and found a solitary paragraph about Ireland leaving the UK. Think about it, a single paragraph on one of the members of the union leaving, in effect the UK decreasing by nearly 1/4!! Hardly worth a mention it seems. So even if you study history to a high enough level you have no comprehension of Ireland.

Another thing is that even on TV and newspapers you'll see Ireland regularly in graphics that are meant to depict the whole UK; sometimes draped in a Union Jack for good measure. You can kind of understand why the average Joe has no idea.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 25-05-2020 4:41pm

fortwilliam wrote: »

A slightly different slant on this, The idea that Irish people have that we are famous all over the world, everyone loves the Irish...

Through my profession and my passion for travel, I have been all over the world.
With the exception of the obvious, UK/Large cities in Aus/Us, Most populations know nothing (And couldn't care less) about Ireland/Irish people.
Very evident in America, where outside of NY/Chicago etc, people know Guinness & Leprechauns come from that little English island near France somewhere... oh, and their Grand-daddy was from Ireland, or maybe Poland.

Literally, that is the common knowledge of us & our land.

Yeah, I've met lots of people who have never even heard of Ireland, or who confuse it with Iceland.

completedit wrote: »

I lived abroad. People do find it fascinating though. Like we speak English but not the English they grew up learning and it blows their mind.

A lot of people who learned English are equally confused when they meet British people. They only know American English.

blinding · 25-05-2020 5:03pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Also not only that there is no class system. But that there is no Irish upper class or middle class.

I think in the UK they genuinely think all Irish people are working class.

Some of them think all Irish People are all Irish Travellers ! ! !

ILoveYourVibes · 25-05-2020 5:04pm

blinding wrote: »

Some of them think all Irish People are all Irish Travellers ! ! !

We're all gypsies? lol i get you.

Necro · 25-05-2020 5:30pm

Mod:

Just a reminder to keep it civil folks. I've removed a number of posts that are not up to the standard of posting. Any issues with posts feel free to report them. Thanks.

mdudy · 25-05-2020 6:49pm

FVP3 wrote: »

He was talking about the republic though, clearly. The North being a different country. Nobody would deny the union jack gets a lot of love there.

Rothko wrote: »

He's not talking about the North

I wasn't only talking about the Union Jack.

I'm aware. He was talking about Brits and Americans, to which I pointed him in the direction of Irish (and British) in the North. There are Irish people in the North, I hope you're aware of that, because it seems that you are not.

FVP3 · 25-05-2020 7:25pm

mdudy wrote: »

I wasn't only talking about the Union Jack.

I'm aware. He was talking about Brits and Americans, to which I pointed him in the direction of Irish (and British) in the North. There are Irish people in the North, I hope you're aware of that, because it seems that you are not.

The guy you were responding to said "we have a pretty gentle nationalism in this country ", so it was clear what we were talking about. If he said "we have a pretty gentle nationalism in this island" your retort would have made sense.

CBear1993 · 25-05-2020 8:08pm

FVP3 is a W.U.M.

Don’t feed those who crave reactions.

He didn’t even answer what you had pointed out. Doesn’t suit his narrative.

Mad_maxx · 25-05-2020 8:09pm

maninasia wrote: »

It does..But then it doesn't have the castles and the ancient ruins and prehistoric monuments. So it's all swings and roundabouts.

I was more referring to natural scenery

Mad_maxx · 25-05-2020 8:18pm

mdudy wrote: »

I wasn't only talking about the Union Jack.

I'm aware. He was talking about Brits and Americans, to which I pointed him in the direction of Irish (and British) in the North. There are Irish people in the North, I hope you're aware of that, because it seems that you are not.

Pointing to an abnormal society never gives an accurate picture of a country, Northern Ireland isn't typical of Ireland or the UK

Nationalism in this country for the most part manifests itself at football tournaments, st Patrick's day parades etc, most people don't have any regard for our military, in this regard we have a very gentle Nationalism compared to the likes of the UK or America

blinding · 25-05-2020 8:23pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Pointing to an abnormal society never gives an accurate picture of a country, Northern Ireland isn't typical of Ireland or the UK

Nationalism in this country for the most part manifests itself at football tournaments, st Patrick's day parades etc, most people don't have any regard for our military, in this regard we have a very gentle Nationalism compared to the likes of the UK or America

I suppose we are very ashamed and embarrassed as to what we have done to the Country of Thomas Clarke and James Connolly ! And we are right to be ashamed and embarrassed.

mdudy · 25-05-2020 9:12pm

FVP3 wrote: »

The guy you were responding to said "we have a pretty gentle nationalism in this country ", so it was clear what we were talking about. If he said "we have a pretty gentle nationalism in this island" your retort would have made sense.

You didn't even address the point I was making. You clearly didn't understand.

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Pointing to an abnormal society never gives an accurate picture of a country, Northern Ireland isn't typical of Ireland or the UK

Nationalism in this country for the most part manifests itself at football tournaments, st Patrick's day parades etc, most people don't have any regard for our military, in this regard we have a very gentle Nationalism compared to the likes of the UK or America

Nobody was claiming it was an accurate picture; it's an outlier - that's exactly the reason I chose to use it as my example. America? The continent?

Jeez. You people are thick as sh1t.

Mad_maxx · 25-05-2020 9:22pm

blinding wrote: »

I suppose we are very ashamed and embarrassed as to what we have done to the Country of Thomas Clarke and James Connolly ! And we are right to be ashamed and embarrassed.

what have " we done to the country " ?

Mad_maxx · 25-05-2020 9:23pm

mdudy wrote: »

You didn't even address the point I was making. You clearly didn't understand.

Nobody was claiming it was an accurate picture; it's an outlier - that's exactly the reason I chose to use it as my example. America? The continent?

Jeez. You people are thick as sh1t.

so you chose an outlier which in your words isnt an accurate picture , as your example ?

:rolleyes:

Mad_maxx · 25-05-2020 9:28pm

HalloweenJack wrote: »

Not read the whole thread so apologies if its been mentioned.

One that I've noticed and that is quite disappointing, given the importance we place on it:

The assumption that we are British and genuine surprise that we get offended by it.

I have heard Irish celebrities being referred to as Brits by Americans so many times that it wrecks my head.

I have met some English people that don't get that we are different or that didn't know we are independent. I had one tell me that she could "forgive" Irish people because it seems the IRA were over, yet she didn't know anything about collusion or who the UVF/LVF are.

In Spain, I have met plenty of people who think that Ireland is just a region of the UK and that we are a regional variety of English people. There are some who are genuinely not aware while there a certain bunch who think of Ireland as being the same as the Basque Country or Catalonia. These people more often than not would be of the opinion that those regions are Spanish and people who want them to be independent are just agitators who are inventing languages and rewriting history.

the british education system teaches the nations youth nothing about the wrong s committed by the british state

BeerWolf · 25-05-2020 9:28pm

mdudy · 25-05-2020 9:37pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

so you chose an outlier which in your words isnt an accurate picture , as your example ?

:rolleyes:

That is literally not what I said. Try again.

25-05-2020 10:02pm

blinding wrote: »

I suppose we are very ashamed and embarrassed as to what we have done to the Country of Thomas Clarke and James Connolly ! And we are right to be ashamed and embarrassed.

Why would we be ashamed and embarrassed? Prior to the pandemic Ireland had full employment, good wages, a good education system, good standard of living, a multicultural democratic society, what is there to be ashamed and embarrassed about?

Perceptions about Ireland that people just assume but aren't true

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