Perceptions about Ireland that people just assume but aren't true

FVP3 · 23-05-2020 2:45pm

1 sheep2 wrote: »

No, they were arguing that the standard of education is markedly better in Ireland than the UK or US. It's not.

It empirically is. Look at PISA. You even admitted this yourself when you said that "Where we do well is that the average standard is good". You then made the argument for the "best schools in the UK", which was in itself goal post moving.

"Given most of the conservative cabinet which is 50% oxbridge, and 50% privately schooled as well..." You see this brainless argument regularly from populists. It makes me cringe.

Terms like "brainless" or"populist" don't really make your argument. You need to possibly argue that the present British cabinet is in fact full of highly educated people on top of their brief, and give examples of such.

20+ years ago, when you had a glance, they seemed the same to you. Fantastic.

Why would the situation change overmuch?

Quite telling that you also take issue with this. I am making no argument. I am merely expressing my contempt.

So no further explanation of what was particularly Irish, or assertive, or stupid about what he said, which you have now failed to do twice.

If you are a product of fee paying schools here ( and presumably the UK if you are able to compare both) then it's not a good look for either of them.

mdudy · 23-05-2020 2:46pm

Blaze420 wrote: »

My point is that the perception is overruled by a false sense of bravado on the antagonists behalf and belief that they can somehow top the perception which is reality and untoppable - therefore I step forward with the ultimatum that anyone challenging the perception with such perceived notions of being above or beyond it is for an awakening of sorts.

See I can do orts too

That doesn't even make sense. You're clearly thick as sh1t; you can get an arts degree in all sorts: English, Economics, Science, Business, Comp Sci, etc.

1 sheep2 · 23-05-2020 3:07pm

FVP3 wrote: »

It empirically is. Look at PISA. You even admitted this yourself when you said that "Where we do well is that the average standard is good". You then made the argument for the "best schools in the UK", which was in itself goal post moving.

PISA is widely known to capture social factors more than educational. That the UK average can be inferior to the Irish average yet the UK's top-tier superior to Ireland's indicates that something more than the LC being superior to A-Levels is at play. This was my point which seems to have completely escaped you.

Terms like "brainless" or"populist" don't really make your argument. You need to possibly argue that the present British cabinet is in fact full of highly educated people on top of their brief, and give examples of such.

I am not making an argument! Why is that so hard for you to understand? Notice that you haven't made an argument either! "You need to argue..." Why do I need to argue? Where's your argument for that?

I would not need to argue the members of cabinet are capable to substantiate my point. I could merely dismiss yours by saying that cabinet ministers are an infinitesimal minority of Oxbridge graduates and there are several other reasons to believe they are not representative.

Why would the situation change overmuch?

1) I don't trust you for a second to be able to judge, 2) There have been two LC syllabus changes and at least one A-Level change since.

If you are a product of fee paying schools here ( and presumably the UK if you are able to compare both) then it's not a good look for either of them.

Dear, dear...

maninasia · 23-05-2020 3:40pm

snoopboggybog wrote: »

One of the most common conceptions about Ireland is that our landscape and scenery are one of the best in the world.

Its far from it, Ireland's landscapes and scenery are crap.

Probably one of the worst in the world.

Rubbish I've travelled all over there's some fantastic scenery and landscapes in Ireland. Magical.

Sam Quentin · 23-05-2020 4:19pm

sparkledrum wrote: »

That we love potatoes

HUH

Of course we do jayyyyysizzz. God forgive ya.

Zebra3 · 23-05-2020 5:44pm

maninasia wrote: »

Rubbish I've travelled all over there's some fantastic scenery and landscapes in Ireland. Magical.

Some.

A lot is destroyed by one off housing and roads.

CBear1993 · 23-05-2020 5:48pm

That’s it’s an interesting place to live that’s reasonable living costs.

Spoiler - it’s boring as f*ck with ****e weather and you pay through the nose for everything unless you move far out into the boglands or a small village with poor infrastructure. Everything is about money. A lot better off in the north financially apart from it being a ****hole.

The only reason people stay here rather than going abroad when they’re young are that they’re home birds or they love their family too much to move away.

Hamachi · 23-05-2020 6:24pm

CBear1993 wrote: »

The only reason people stay here rather than going abroad when they’re young are that they’re home birds or they love their family too much to move away.

Nonsense. Many young people actively choose to stay in Ireland because they have thriving careers, an active social life, hobbies, and a real sense of place, only available when surrounded by family and long standing friends.

Personally, I spent two long stints abroad in my 20s in Germany and Australia. I could easily have stayed in either country for the long haul. I chose not to do so. Why? Because Ireland is a fantastic place to live. Family, career opportunities, generally nice people, mild weather, a myriad of sporting and recreational opportunities.

All those young people who go abroad, guess what? 80%-90% of them ultimately return to Ireland to settle down and create their families. The bile reeking from your post is more indicative of your own attitude and outlook, than being any kind of relevant commentary on Ireland.

KiKi III · 23-05-2020 6:29pm

py2006 wrote: »

That we are all nice, friendly with a great sense of humour!

I have met, worked with some absolute disgusting human beings with extreme narcissistic personality disorders. People who are vile and obnoxious and horrible to anybody who is not in their circle. (And even in their circle)

Other than them, we are deadly!

I’ve lived in three different countries and worked with expats from all over the world. My experience is that the Irish are far, far friendlier than most.

Obviously there are exceptions, but as a general thing I think we earn our rep as friendly.

Ask for directions on the street in London and compare it to Dublin, very different experiences.

1 sheep2 · 23-05-2020 6:45pm

KiKi III wrote: »

I’ve lived in three different countries and worked with expats from all over the world. My experience is that the Irish are far, far friendlier than most.

Obviously there are exceptions, but as a general thing I think we earn our rep as friendly.

Ask for directions on the street in London and compare it to Dublin, very different experiences.

My experience of English people is the exact opposite. And when I've asked someone in uniform, there, for directions, I've got a much friendlier response.

chosen1 · 23-05-2020 7:33pm

snoopboggybog wrote: »

Our landscape is probably the worst in the worst in the world .

It has a perception of green fields and cliffs

Its chronic compared to any other country.

This has to be some of the greatest scutter I've ever read on a thread here. You call it a kip in another post.

Just did a quick Google of top 100 places on earth for scenery and Ireland has at least 1 on all the lists I've seen. Cliffs of Moher and Giants Causeway the most common in these lists but in my opinion they're even not close to the beauty of Kerry or Connemara etc.

I've been to many countries and have seen amazing sights and I'm not in any way claiming ours should be at the top of the list, but to call it a kip just makes you sound either bitter or uneducated.

Ipso · 23-05-2020 7:37pm

sparkledrum wrote: »

That we love potatoes

But just not in a fry.

Hamachi · 23-05-2020 7:48pm

chosen1 wrote: »

This has to be some of the greatest scutter I've ever read on a thread here. You call it a kip in another post.

Just did a quick Google of top 100 places on earth for scenery and Ireland has at least 1 on all the lists I've seen. Cliffs of Moher and Giants Causeway the most common in these lists but in my opinion they're even not close to the beauty of Kerry or Connemara etc.

I've been to many countries and have seen amazing sights and I'm not in any way claiming ours should be at the top of the list, but to call it a kip just makes you sound either bitter or uneducated.

Spot on. Ireland has incredibly diverse scenery for a relatively small country. The northern coastline and the wild Atlantic way are up there with any of the most renowned coastal drives globally.

You also have lesser known attractions like the copper coast in Waterford that is absolutely stunning, even on a bleak day in the middle of winter.

Some of the malcontents posting here wouldn’t be happy if you dropped them in utopia.

M.T. Cranium · 23-05-2020 11:02pm

The outside-the-country stereotype is a bunch of very spirited and somewhat inebriated people, the women all gorgeous, the men merely lucky, enjoying a pint of Guinness and some rousing fiddle music in a pub while outside the rain blows sideways, the wind howls and leprechauns peer through the windows.

When I got to Ireland for my one visit, I said "well at least the women are all gorgeous and it's raining."

freshpopcorn · 23-05-2020 11:14pm

That we Irish families have six and seven kids!

kravmaga · 23-05-2020 11:19pm

1 sheep2 wrote: »

My experience of English people is the exact opposite. And when I've asked someone in uniform, there, for directions, I've got a much friendlier response.

Thats bollix, the English aren,t friendly , especially when they hear an Irish accent, where? London,

CBear1993 · 24-05-2020 12:11am

With a name like Krav Maga I’m sure you’re a lovely fellow to meet on the street.

1 sheep2 · 24-05-2020 12:19am

kravmaga wrote: »

Thats bollix, the English aren,t friendly , especially when they hear an Irish accent, where? London,

You have an interesting approach to punctuation.

The English I have met have been very fond of the Irish. Our 'accent' has been voted the most attractive in the British Isles. Perhaps there's another reason they haven't warmed to you.

Hamachi · 24-05-2020 12:23am

1 sheep2 wrote: »

You have an interesting approach to punctuation.

The English I have met have been very fond of the Irish. Our 'accent' has been voted the most attractive in the British Isles. Perhaps there's another reason they haven't warmed to you.

Perhaps the English are particularly well disposed to punctuation nazis?

1 sheep2 · 24-05-2020 12:50am

Hamachi wrote: »

Perhaps the English are particularly well disposed to punctuation nazis?

If you think casually remarking on an utterly garbled post amounts to grammar Nazism, then Marianne's English boyfriend in Normal People is right that fascist is thrown around too much these days.

Hamachi · 24-05-2020 12:56am

1 sheep2 wrote: »

If you think casually remarking on an utterly garbled post amounts to grammar Nazism, then Marianne's English boyfriend in Normal People is right that fascist is thrown around too much these days.

The poster’s intent is clear. You just couldn’t resist taking the opportunity to cast a sly dig at somebody holding a contrary opinion to your own.

Gremlinertia · 24-05-2020 12:59am

Mod - less sniping, cards will be issued if this continues

1 sheep2 · 24-05-2020 1:06am

Don't question mod warnings on thread, PM if you wish

Atlantic Dawn · 24-05-2020 1:10am

freshpopcorn wrote: »

That we Irish families have six and seven kids!

Plenty of those who don't work a day in their life do.

1 sheep2 · 24-05-2020 1:11am

1 sheep2 wrote: »

Don't question mod warnings on thread, PM if you wish

Jesus, take a joke.

freshpopcorn · 24-05-2020 1:12am

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Plenty of those who don't work a day in their life do.

I was waiting for that response or one that refereed to a minority!

Atlantic Dawn · 24-05-2020 1:21am

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I was waiting for that response or one that refereed to a minority!

Define a minority?

Strumms · 24-05-2020 1:45am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Many people do.

We have a complex relationship with our neighbors.

I've to apologize to a few british friends for how they were treated by idiots.

Yes. Most people are intelligent enough to realize that the symbol on your passport doesn’t define you as a person, neither does the accent with which you speak or where you are from.

I’ve spent a bit of time all over Britain for work... Glasgow, Edinburgh, Manchester, Birmingham and several London locations and I can only say I was treated very well... of all the individuals whom I encountered I can only recall one who was less than helpful (a manager) and another down the east end way, a bit of a young wideboy who wasn’t exactly a great fan of things Irish but he was to be pitied... tried to express his feelings in jest a couple of times only to be pulled by the trainer and told... “ you’ve an Irish guy sat there (me) and if you hadn’t noticed my surname is Kennedy so reel your neck in or you’ll be explaining to your manager why you not only you didn’t pass but you didn’t finish this course”...

Otherwise ok, reserved in general but sound, very sound.. could have done with one or two of em at home base..

micosoft · 24-05-2020 1:50am

completedit wrote: »

Idea that we are all somehow educated and worldly because we go to Vancouver, London, New York and Sydney. Irish people do this strange thing whereby we seem to compare our national intelligence to British Yobs on tour and use that to pat ourselves on the back. Like most things in Ireland it's a low bar to set.

That begrudgerly on exists in Ireland. As if around the world rich people and successful people are idolised. This seems to come from Bono's quote when comparing Ireland to America. I got his point but misses the point

Ireland is corrupt or a kip.

I might suppose that we are a land of scholars and have a strong education system? Given your post is barely comprehensible that appears to be a myth. Unless of course it's just you.

Buck_rodgers · 24-05-2020 1:50am

kravmaga wrote: »

Thats bollix, the English aren,t friendly , especially when they hear an Irish accent, where? London,

Hate to break it to you , but you must be ugly, English girls love the Irish accent, in like Flynn

blinding · 24-05-2020 8:39am

Buck_rodgers wrote: »

Hate to break it to you , but you must be ugly, English girls love the Irish accent, in like Flynn

Women like Sex. They will like many things to get Sex

;);)

maninasia · 25-05-2020 6:47am

1 sheep2 wrote: »

My experience of English people is the exact opposite. And when I've asked someone in uniform, there, for directions, I've got a much friendlier response.

Agreed but London is terrible.

topper75 · 25-05-2020 10:17am

maninasia wrote: »

Agreed but London is terrible.

If you chat to somebody in London - what is the % chance of them being English at all?

fortwilliam · 25-05-2020 10:30am

A slightly different slant on this, The idea that Irish people have that we are famous all over the world, everyone loves the Irish...

Through my profession and my passion for travel, I have been all over the world.
With the exception of the obvious, UK/Large cities in Aus/Us, Most populations know nothing (And couldn't care less) about Ireland/Irish people.
Very evident in America, where outside of NY/Chicago etc, people know Guinness & Leprechauns come from that little English island near France somewhere... oh, and their Grand-daddy was from Ireland, or maybe Poland.

Literally, that is the common knowledge of us & our land.

chrissb8 · 25-05-2020 10:51am

fortwilliam wrote: »

A slightly different slant on this, The idea that Irish people have that we are famous all over the world, everyone loves the Irish...

Through my profession and my passion for travel, I have been all over the world.
With the exception of the obvious, UK/Large cities in Aus/Us, Most populations know nothing (And couldn't care less) about Ireland/Irish people.
Very evident in America, where outside of NY/Chicago etc, people know Guinness & Leprechauns come from that little English island near France somewhere... oh, and their Grand-daddy was from Ireland, or maybe Poland.

Literally, that is the common knowledge of us & our land.

This is so true. When I was away even in Europe for a couple of months most people knew nothing or cared fairly little for Ireland.

Same thing again, Guinness & Leprachauns and our ability to drink preceding us. Got asked at least once a week if Ireland was in the Uk as well.

Ireland really is not world famous. Just famous in some countries, mostly where Irish Immigrants had some form of impact.

whisky_galore · 25-05-2020 10:56am

chrissb8 wrote: »

Ireland really is not world famous. Just famous in some countries, mostly where Irish Immigrants had some form of impact.

Usually Anglophone countries, the immigrants that went to non English speaking countries, albeit in smaller numbers, tend to be forgotten about.

FVP3 · 25-05-2020 11:00am

fortwilliam wrote: »

A slightly different slant on this, The idea that Irish people have that we are famous all over the world, everyone loves the Irish...

Through my profession and my passion for travel, I have been all over the world.
With the exception of the obvious, UK/Large cities in Aus/Us, Most populations know nothing (And couldn't care less) about Ireland/Irish people.
Very evident in America, where outside of NY/Chicago etc, people know Guinness & Leprechauns come from that little English island near France somewhere... oh, and their Grand-daddy was from Ireland, or maybe Poland.

Literally, that is the common knowledge of us & our land.

Very few people think that we are famous over the world. Except perhaps you once did, and got disabused by asking people about Ireland or something. That said it's fairly easy to find on a map, right beside Britain.

chrissb8 wrote: »

This is so true. When I was away even in Europe for a couple of months most people knew nothing or cared fairly little for Ireland.

Same thing again, Guinness & Leprachauns and our ability to drink preceding us. Got asked at least once a week if Ireland was in the Uk as well.

Ireland really is not world famous. Just famous in some countries, mostly where Irish Immigrants had some form of impact.

How do you even get into these conversations? Do you really ask people on holiday whether they know much about Ireland? Why would you think it?

completedit · 25-05-2020 11:27am

I lived abroad. People do find it fascinating though. Like we speak English but not the English they grew up learning and it blows their mind.

blinding · 25-05-2020 11:43am

Sure Paddy and Biddy think they are mighty important ! !

The rest of the world = Meh !

dfx- · 25-05-2020 11:56am

Why are 95% of the perceptions in the thread about shooting down/criticising a usually positive or harmless view of Ireland/Irish...

Are we uniquely able to beat ourselves up?

Mad_maxx · 25-05-2020 12:05pm

Hamachi wrote: »

Spot on. Ireland has incredibly diverse scenery for a relatively small country. The northern coastline and the wild Atlantic way are up there with any of the most renowned coastal drives globally.

You also have lesser known attractions like the copper coast in Waterford that is absolutely stunning, even on a bleak day in the middle of winter.

Some of the malcontents posting here wouldn’t be happy if you dropped them in utopia.

its indeed a beautiful country but im not sure id agree that its especially diverse

new zealand is incredibly diverse , spectacular landscapes , ireland has more gentle scenery

1 sheep2 · 25-05-2020 1:22pm

fortwilliam wrote: »

A slightly different slant on this, The idea that Irish people have that we are famous all over the world, everyone loves the Irish...

Through my profession and my passion for travel, I have been all over the world.
With the exception of the obvious, UK/Large cities in Aus/Us, Most populations know nothing (And couldn't care less) about Ireland/Irish people.

It was a few years ago, now, but I think it might have been in the Irish Times that I read the account of some young person who'd spent a year in India. She expressed amazement that many people she met there had never heard of Ireland and couldn't locate it on a map. :rolleyes:

FVP3 wrote: »

Very few people think that we are famous over the world. Except perhaps you once did, and got disabused by asking people about Ireland or something. That said it's fairly easy to find on a map, right beside Britain.

How do you even get into these conversations? Do you really ask people on holiday whether they know much about Ireland? Why would you think it?

I've no knock-out fact to support this, but my sense of Ireland is that we very much do believe that we are well-known around the world - understandable given the dominance of American popular culture and success of St Patrick's Day. And, yes, many people do proudly bring up their Irish nationality when abroad.

dfx- wrote: »

Why are 95% of the perceptions in the thread about shooting down/criticising a usually positive or harmless view of Ireland/Irish...

Are we uniquely able to beat ourselves up?

I think it's fairly healthy to examine national exceptionalism and tone it down. Only very few people have identified a positive perception that they claim is wholly misconceived. And I don't think it's always harmless that a country thinks the world of itself.

Rothko · 25-05-2020 1:27pm

fortwilliam wrote: »

A slightly different slant on this, The idea that Irish people have that we are famous all over the world, everyone loves the Irish...

The majority of people don't think like that at all.

Mad_maxx · 25-05-2020 1:51pm

1 sheep2 wrote: »

It was a few years ago, now, but I think it might have been in the Irish Times that I read the account of some young person who'd spent a year in India. She expressed amazement that many people she met there had never heard of Ireland and couldn't locate it on a map. :rolleyes:

I've no knock-out fact to support this, but my sense of Ireland is that we very much do believe that we are well-known around the world - understandable given the dominance of American popular culture and success of St Patrick's Day. And, yes, many people do proudly bring up their Irish nationality when abroad.

I think it's fairly healthy to examine national exceptionalism and tone it down. Only very few people have identified a positive perception that they claim is wholly misconceived. And I don't think it's always harmless that a country thinks the world of itself.

we have a pretty gentle nationalism in this country , very different to the kind of flag waving the brits and americans engage in

mdudy · 25-05-2020 1:52pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

we have a pretty gentle nationalism in this country , very different to the kind of flag waving the brits and americans engage in

Have you set foot in the North?

ILoveYourVibes · 25-05-2020 1:58pm

mdudy wrote: »

Have you set foot in the North?

Someparts of here too...INSANE

I feel sorry for them.

1 sheep2 · 25-05-2020 2:05pm

Mad_maxx wrote: »

we have a pretty gentle nationalism in this country

It is insane to me that anyone could think that.

FVP3 · 25-05-2020 2:28pm

1 sheep2 wrote: »

It was a few years ago, now, but I think it might have been in the Irish Times that I read the account of some young person who'd spent a year in India. She expressed amazement that many people she met there had never heard of Ireland and couldn't locate it on a map. :rolleyes:

Well to be fair knowing the island that invaded them, and therefore assuming people also know the one beside that one isn't that much a stretch, at least for educated people. This isn't the same as expecting them to know anything about the politics.

And I don't think it's always harmless that a country thinks the world of itself.

The idea that we have a exaggerated view of our own importance is the exact opposite of the truth, in fact we are the most self critical country in the West. As is fairly clear by this thread. The term "great little country" is only ever said as satire, while our friends in Great Britain and MAGA land use "great" unironically, albeit mostly in terms of getting their countries back to that condition again, these days.

FVP3 · 25-05-2020 2:30pm

1 sheep2 wrote: »

It is insane to me that anyone could think that.

Its insane that anybody would think differently. You just have to look at the national days of other countries, the pomp and ceremony to see that.

Generally the people who do think that we are nationalistic tend to transfer their nationalism to some other entity, generally the UK or the US.

steddyeddy · 25-05-2020 2:33pm

completedit wrote: »

Idea that we are all somehow educated and worldly because we go to Vancouver, London, New York and Sydney. Irish people do this strange thing whereby we seem to compare our national intelligence to British Yobs on tour and use that to pat ourselves on the back. Like most things in Ireland it's a low bar to set.

That begrudgerly on exists in Ireland. As if around the world rich people and successful people are idolised. This seems to come from Bono's quote when comparing Ireland to America. I got his point but misses the point

Ireland is corrupt or a kip.

I come from one of the roughest parts of Dublin, received a PhD,ended up working in academia on some famous projects and spoke about my research on TV. When I visited Dublin again I never once encountered begrudgery from people I grew up with. It's massively overblown. I think it's a case that some people might be guilty about success and project that onto others.

Perceptions about Ireland that people just assume but aren't true

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