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Stratosphere watch 2018/19

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,666 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    Last frame of FI, but does this chart from the FV3 signify the beginning of the end for the warming? Or could it reload even if this chart were to verify? Still getting to grips with how to read these :D

    There is some warmer temperatures just over the med which with the heat flux signalled by the model would likely intensify and cause a split in the Polar Vortex or a subsequent major warming. If there wasn't that heat flux, I would probably say it'd be the end of the warming.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,950 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    sryanbruen wrote: »
    There is some warmer temperatures just over the med which with the heat flux signalled by the model would likely intensify and cause a split in the Polar Vortex or a subsequent major warming. If there wasn't that heat flux, I would probably say it'd be the end of the warming.

    Yes, this is what Stuart Rampling and others have suggested, we will initially get a vortex displacement, but he expects the subsequent warming to finish off(split) the Vortex- though i think he does not foresee a split till Mid January- which would be great for your winter forecast


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,666 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    Amazing amplification of the reversed zonal winds on the GEFS this morning. Getting close to February 2018 standards.

    n2nGvBS.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,666 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,666 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    The ECM forecast for the 10hPa and 30hPa zonal winds is getting very close to reversal levels.

    https://twitter.com/TheSteveCop/status/1075037711231262721


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,666 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    Yes, this is what Stuart Rampling and others have suggested, we will initially get a vortex displacement, but he expects the subsequent warming to finish off(split) the Vortex- though i think he does not foresee a split till Mid January- which would be great for your winter forecast

    Cohen seems to be along the same lines.

    https://twitter.com/judah47/status/1075040398928723968


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,666 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    I know I've mentioned this before, but the temperature figure spam on the FV3 is getting seriously out of hand :D:D:D

    mw0gEUp.png

    It only appears for a few frames on the 0z so I'm assuming it's just a glitch, but all the same... Great Jaysus :D

    Regardless, the warming is now forecast to begin within the next three days :cool:

    FI continues to show the potential for the beginnings of a split, building from January 1st:

    gBV7BCh.gif


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,951 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    A little change now with winds not quite reversing

    u_65N_10hpa.png

    Image is live so will update as it changes.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,666 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    Villain wrote: »
    A little change now with winds not quite reversing

    Image is live so will update as it changes.

    Very strange. ECM 10hPa zonal winds are now reversing in its forecast.

    If the zonal winds do not reverse, this won’t be a technical SSW. Albeit, that chart is 65 degrees North, it’s 60 degrees North we look at (I only noticed I made that mistake yesterday).


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    sryanbruen wrote: »
    Very strange. ECM 10hPa zonal winds are now reversing in its forecast.

    If the zonal winds do not reverse, this won’t be a technical SSW. Albeit, that chart is 65 degrees North, it’s 60 degrees North we look at (I only noticed I made that mistake yesterday).

    The 60N chart is very similar:

    u_60N_10hpa.png

    Interestingly, the operational GFS 6z does seem to have backed off somewhat, with the warming peaking at 132h, and no real signs of a split. The Fv3, on the other hand, has now gone full split towards the end of FI.

    Let's hope the FV3 turns out to be the superior model, which is what one would surely expect given that it's to replace the operational in the coming months.

    Op:

    NhVggH3.gif

    FV3:

    3nNODyM.gif


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,666 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,666 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    Also to note, both 10hPa and 30hPa have warmed up in the past day over the North Pole - 10hPa quite significantly so.

    VliLyBb.gif

    5U2FVSN.gif


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,666 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    The 60N chart is very similar:

    Interestingly, the operational GFS 6z does seem to have backed off somewhat, with the warming peaking at 132h, and no real signs of a split. The Fv3, on the other hand, has now gone full split towards the end of FI.

    I see. :pac:

    https://twitter.com/SimonLeeWx/status/1075432508962025473


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    BOOM!!! :cool: :cool: :cool:

    dDAcTyY.gif

    Now, let's see this creep ever closer over the next few runs and not run away from us :D:D:D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,666 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    Boom is right!

    https://twitter.com/MattHugo81/status/1075475651493289984

    Now let's have this signal be consistent..... please.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,633 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    Arctic Oscillation and Polar Vortex Analysis and Forecasts
    December 17, 2018

    Summary
    • The Arctic Oscillation (AO) is currently neutral and is predicted to straddle neutral right into the new year.
    • The current neutral AO is reflective of mixed pressure/geopotential height anomalies across the Arctic and mixed pressure/geopotential height anomalies across the mid-latitudes. The North Atlantic Oscillation (NAO) is currently also near neutral with weak positive pressure/geopotential height anomalies across Greenland and mixed pressure/geopotential height anomalies across the mid-latitudes of the North Atlantic and is predicted to remain close to neutral over the next two weeks.
    • Troughing/negative geopotential height anomalies across much of Europe is bringing near seasonable temperatures to below normal temperatures currently but in general ridging/positive geopotential height anomalies will increasingly dominate much of Europe over the next two weeks resulting in normal to above normal temperatures starting in Western Europe including the United Kingdom (UK) and spreading eastward.
    • Building ridging/positive geopotential height anomalies centered across Scandinavia and the Barents-Kara Seas will force downstream troughing/negative geopotential across large parts of Asia. Normal to below normal temperatures are mostly focused across Western Asia including much of the Middle East and the Indian subcontinent but will slowly spread eastward to eventually include Central and East Asia.
    • Troughing/negative geopotential height anomalies across Alaska and the Gulf of Alaska will help to focus troughing in the western part of North America with mostly ridging/positive geopotential height anomalies downstream across eastern North America. Cold temperatures will be mostly confined to Alaska this week but will start spreading south and east first across western Canada and then the Western United States (US). Meanwhile temperatures will mostly average normal to above normal in Eastern Canada and the Eastern US.
    • In the Impacts section, I discuss my observations for the large-scale pattern and temperatures across the Northern Hemisphere related to troposphere-stratosphere-troposphere coupling.

    source

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,666 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    sryanbruen wrote: »

    Now let's have this signal be consistent..... please.

    :rolleyes:

    https://twitter.com/DrAHButler/status/1075782109393051650


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,797 ✭✭✭✭hatrickpatrick


    The split is gone on the 12z FV3, but it's still showing the PV squeezed into a figure of eight shape, just ready to split if it comes under more pressure.

    I don't see why there's so much hullaballoo over one day of slight downgrades tbh. The warming is still on track and FI is always going to flip and flop during an event like this... To look at NetWeather this afternoon you'd swear we've just seen a freakishly early start to Spring :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,021 ✭✭✭Artane2002


    ECM splits the PV.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,467 Mod ✭✭✭✭mickger844posts


    As always with the models the trend is your friend and the trend for weeks now is a SSW event. Fully expect it to happen but no guarantee it will bring cold.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,950 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    When it comes to events in the stratosphere i would go with what glosea5 and what ECM depict, rather than the GFS. As far as i can see the split is still very much on.


  • Registered Users Posts: 721 ✭✭✭Defaulter1831


    https://www.netweather.tv/forum/topic/91032-hunt-for-cold-model-discussion-heading-into-christmas/?page=53

    I'm no expert but these charts seems to suggest a good vortex break is still on the cards..


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,666 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,951 ✭✭✭✭Villain


    A split and a second warming would be interesting!

    gfsnh-10-384.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 269 ✭✭Mount Vesuvius


    Thankfully there is no panic on this forum about models not showing any cold . Unlike that Netweather. Stop looking at each run until after Christmas as nothing is going to show up yet. The warming in the Stratospheric is only beginning now and when effects do influence the troposphere the cold might just pour over us or North America. I like our chances though.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,577 ✭✭✭Billcarson


    With a split vortex, highly likely we would get a cold spell. As soon as the decorations are down I reckon then the models will light up.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,666 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    ECM 12z is showing split of the Polar Vortex again but just before the end of December. It's nice to see this instead of it constantly backtracking to +384 hrs like many days since this possible SSW came into view on the models.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,950 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Billcarson wrote: »
    With a split vortex, highly likely we would get a cold spell. As soon as the decorations are down I reckon then the models will light up.

    A much greater chance than if it were a displacement, it's still not a guarantee as the daughter vortices could end up in the wrong place- for example if blocking ended up too far west- in whats called a west based nao. I think if we do get a cold spell around mid- January it maybe extended by a weak el nino aiding further blocking to develop


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,666 ✭✭✭✭sryanbruen


    A much greater chance than if it were a displacement, it's still not a guarantee as the daughter vortices could end up in the wrong place- for example if blocking ended up to far west- in whats called a west based nao. I think if we do get a cold spell around mid- January it maybe extended by a weak el nino aiding further blocking to develop

    https://twitter.com/MJVentrice/status/1075897160737189888


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