Motor tax summons

endacl · 27-05-2019 6:29pm

Rubberchikken wrote: »

people would do better to put effort into paying what they're legally required to do or else do without the car until all expenses can be afforded instead of spending so much time and energy ducking responsibility.

Sure if they did that we couldn’t kick them while they were down.

francie81 · 27-05-2019 6:41pm

And now it’s time for the smart remarks I guess it may have being one of those days for others also.

mgbgt1978 · 27-05-2019 9:19pm

francie81 wrote: »

Just wondering do judges usually hand out penalty points on top of a fine for no road tax as I got a summons? This happens to be my first court appearance whenever that will be?

Your 1st post in this thread....

francie81 wrote: »

So probably just leaving it as it is till I get the summons and seek some legal advice at the same time?

....and 3 days later :rolleyes::rolleyes:.

francie81 · 27-05-2019 9:40pm

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Your 1st post in this thread....

....and 3 days later :rolleyes::rolleyes:.

Yeah yeah my mind wandered it would appear it’s human... it happens again deepest apologies for misinterpreting :rolleyes:

tcawley29 · 28-05-2019 12:42am

francie81 wrote: »

So as you pointed out in one of your posts that I could always use the loophole that is changing ownership in clearing arrears but you were not aware that I had it declared off the road therefore it can’t be done or more in the way of riskiness in doing so rather?

As I also said in a previous post, I have no idea if it will work when a summons has been issued.

Personally I wouldn't risk it under your circumstances but at the end of the day it's your call.

christy02 · 28-05-2019 3:26am

I assume that as you are saying you can’t do without the car, you are still driving it untaxed?

francie81 · 28-05-2019 9:03am

christy02 wrote: »

I assume that as you are saying you can’t do without the car, you are still driving it untaxed?

No not now.

Del2005 · 28-05-2019 9:16am

tcawley29 wrote: »

As I also said in a previous post, I have no idea if it will work when a summons has been issued.

Personally I wouldn't risk it under your circumstances but at the end of the day it's your call.

The OP has been caught driving a vehicle which was declared off the road, so the declaration is null and void. If they sell it the new owner won't be liable. But the problem is that the OP thinks they will be summonsed over it and the judge will just impose the back tax and a fine also. So the OP will have to pay the back tax regardless.

FishOnABike · 28-05-2019 9:49am

christy02 wrote: »

I assume that as you are saying you can’t do without the car, you are still driving it untaxed?

francie81 wrote: »

No not now.

Does that mean your main car is back on the road and you are now driving it or that you are still driving the spare car and it is now taxed (including all back taxes being paid)?

A class B fine can be substantial (up to €4000) so I would talk to a solicitor when you get the summons to see what can be done to mitigate your circumstances.

I would think things like showing all back tax was now paid, if you can show a corresponding temporary transfer of insurance from your main car to the spare and back again, corresponding bill from a garage for repairs to your main car, proof your main car was tax, nct and insurance compliant (apart from temporary transfer to spare), etc. might all help when it goes to court.

Then again it is very much down to the district court judge. Some may very summarily issue their usual fine, some may be very lenient in extenuating circumstances and some might be annoyed by what they see as excuse making.

A local solicitor who regularly handles traffic offences in the court would know a particular judge's form and how to best present things. Considering the potential fine, engaging a local, knowledgeable solicitor could be a good investment.

francie81 · 28-05-2019 11:01am

FishOnABike wrote: »

Does that mean your main car is back on the road and you are now driving it or that you are still driving the spare car and it is now taxed (including all back taxes being paid)?

Cheers for that well presented input.

No the main car is still abandoned due with engine trouble diagnosed as blown head gasket by AA breakdown on the day I had it towed home which prompted me to officially declare it off the road from May as the tax disc ended on 04/19.

It was from April we switched over to the spare car.

Your right though probably just do what I can and somehow pay it all back by the time the summons arrive.

So where an offence occurrs Dublin City in this case the court appearance takes place in that district as am from Louth?

Spook_ie · 28-05-2019 11:30am

francie81 wrote: »

Cheers for that well presented input.

No the main car is still abandoned due with engine trouble diagnosed as blown head gasket by AA breakdown on the day I had it towed home which prompted me to officially declare it off the road from May as the tax disc ended on 04/19.

It was from April we switched over to the spare car.

Your right though probably just do what I can and somehow pay it all back by the time the summons arrive.

So where an offence occurrs Dublin City in this case the court appearance takes place in that district as am from Louth?

Just for peace of mind, your blown gasket motor that is now subject to a SORN, make sure it's not in a place that makes it subject to Motor Tax otherwise it could be subject to a FPN.

Isambard · 28-05-2019 12:09pm

francie81 wrote: »

Cheers for that well presented input.

No the main car is still abandoned due with engine trouble diagnosed as blown head gasket by AA breakdown on the day I had it towed home which prompted me to officially declare it off the road from May as the tax disc ended on 04/19.

It was from April we switched over to the spare car.

Your right though probably just do what I can and somehow pay it all back by the time the summons arrive.

So where an offence occurrs Dublin City in this case the court appearance takes place in that district as am from Louth?

I'm reluctant to suggest it, but if a summons has not been issued, you could change ownership to/from your wife and there would be no arrears on the system. I'm not sure, when a summons has not been issued, if that would help, but it couldn't make things worse. You may still have to pay the arrears

Del2005 · 28-05-2019 12:29pm

Isambard wrote: »

I'm reluctant to suggest it, but if a summons has not been issued, you could change ownership to/from your wife and there would be no arrears on the system. I'm not sure, when a summons has not been issued, if that would help, but it couldn't make things worse. You may still have to pay the arrears

The OP has been caught driving a car that was declared off the road so they are liable for the tax since it expired. Selling only works if you haven't been caught driving untaxed.

Seve OB · 28-05-2019 12:42pm

francie81 wrote: »

Am very much strapped for cash unfortunately as am out of work on sick leave and selling this car is not really an option when you have family and being in a location we’re other means of transport is awkward, their is a lot of people am sure out there who drive but don’t really need to and I don’t feel am one of those, it’s always good having a second car their in the event the primary one packs in which in my case did.

so you were strapped for cash
instead of selling a perfectly good car you let it sit in the driveway for a couple of years
now you have just been caught driving it

if you were that strapped for cash you would have sold the car back when you took it off the road

pull the other one. I don't believe you for a minute

Effects · 28-05-2019 12:58pm

Isambard wrote: »

I'm reluctant to suggest it, but if a summons has not been issued, you could change ownership to/from your wife and there would be no arrears on the system. I'm not sure, when a summons has not been issued, if that would help, but it couldn't make things worse. You may still have to pay the arrears

francie81 wrote: »

But changing ownership is not illegal thus cannot be investigated even on the grounds of a summons?

Just because you use a loophole to try and avoid paying the tax doesn't negate being stopped for driving with no tax. And if you try and use that excuse in court the judge will probably slap you with the highest fine they can.

francie81 · 28-05-2019 1:55pm

Seve OB wrote: »

so you were strapped for cash
instead of selling a perfectly good car you let it sit in the driveway for a couple of years
now you have just been caught driving it

if you were that strapped for cash you would have sold the car back when you took it off the road

pull the other one. I don't believe you for a minute

Is their something wrong in owning two cars when only one is being used are you just pure thick in what your saying or being outright smart which?

What exactly was it costing me to sit in my driveway other than what transpired in the end as a result of taking risk because my main car packed in?

Don't talk s **** because of me being irresponsible that I have found myself in this situation it has nothing to do with having to sell a 'perfectly good car' that I haven't being driving up until now :rolleyes:

TherapyBoy · 28-05-2019 2:01pm

francie81 wrote: »

What exactly was it costing me to sit in my driveway...

What did it gain you?

You were short money & had a sellable asset.

francie81 · 28-05-2019 2:11pm

TherapyBoy wrote: »

What did it gain you?

You were short money & had a sellable asset.

It gave me the option of moving from one car to another before all this, also who said I was strapped (albeit not being able to run two cars at once) for cash back at the time of declaring it off the road.

Isambard · 28-05-2019 2:19pm

Effects wrote: »

Just because you use a loophole to try and avoid paying the tax doesn't negate being stopped for driving with no tax. And if you try and use that excuse in court the judge will probably slap you with the highest fine they can.

not what I'm saying. He hasn't actually been summons yet. I'm not suggesting using it as an excuse in Court, I'm saying it might change the arrears situation and couldn't make the situation worse. He is entitled to sell his car. If he is summonsed, he'll have to take his medicine , and might have to pay the arrears, but then again he might not have to when they see he isn't the owner anymore.

Effects · 28-05-2019 2:22pm

TherapyBoy wrote: »

You were short money & had a sellable asset.

Might not be worth that much to sell, but invaluable should the other car have broken down.

longgonesilver · 28-05-2019 2:41pm

The OP does not have to transfer the car over and back to be able to get the current tax on it. He can declare the car back on the road and pay the current tax. That will regularise his current position and allow him to drive legally. That should be acceptable to the judge. The summons and arrears due can then be dealt with. Get professional advice.

Isambard · 28-05-2019 3:31pm

longgonesilver wrote: »

The OP does not have to transfer the car over and back to be able to get the current tax on it. He can declare the car back on the road and pay the current tax. That will regularise his current position and allow him to drive legally. That should be acceptable to the judge. The summons and arrears due can then be dealt with. Get professional advice.

That's true. Nothing to stop him paying the tax from now , nothing has happened to stop this as a summons has not been issued.

Rubberchikken · 28-05-2019 3:37pm

in kicking some when they're down maybe they'll cop on. plus if one other driver learns from it thats a plus.

francie81 · 28-05-2019 4:02pm

Will be away tomorrow for two weeks (not driving in that time).

Incase I haven’t already mentioned it I got a FCN off a warden for same thing a week or two leading up to being pulled by the guards.

In that time am away I will be making sure I pay that fine of €60 before the 28th day deadline, and will try and tax my car as normal when am back.

Duffryman · 28-05-2019 4:22pm

Right, I was involved in this thread back near the start, just to answer the original question about penalty points.

I said a few days ago that ‘I’m out’, but I’ve still been following things ever since, wondering what the next twist might be. It’s been quite a saga.

This latest twist is particularly extraordinary. ‘Strapped for cash’….but maybe going on a two-week holiday?

uck51js9zml2yt · 28-05-2019 4:36pm

Del2005 wrote: »

The OP has been caught driving a vehicle which was declared off the road, so the declaration is null and void. If they sell it the new owner won't be liable. But the problem is that the OP thinks they will be summonsed over it and the judge will just impose the back tax and a fine also. So the OP will have to pay the back tax regardless.

Judges don't look kindly on people they think are trying to weasel out of their responsibility.

Op get it taxed and then transfer ownership or sord again.

francie81 · 28-05-2019 5:31pm

Duffryman wrote: »

Right, I was involved in this thread back near the start, just to answer the original question about penalty points.

I said a few days ago that ‘I’m out’, but I’ve still been following things ever since, wondering what the next twist might be. It’s been quite a saga.

This latest twist is particularly extraordinary. ‘Strapped for cash’….but maybe going on a two-week holiday?

Ok let’s just say this isn’t the sun, sea, sand holiday you may be pondering thus more in the way of joining my family visiting family that I and only I know that has no bearing on my OP.

Hope that answers your question without feeling twists or contradictions.

tcawley29 · 28-05-2019 5:36pm

francie81 wrote: »

Ok let’s just say this isn’t the sun, sea, sand holiday you may be pondering thus more in the way of joining my family visiting family that I and only I know that has no bearing on my OP.

Hope that answers your question without feeling twists or contradictions.

Please don't tell the judge you were strapped for cash because you were going on a two week holiday

FishOnABike · 28-05-2019 6:04pm

francie81 wrote: »

So where an offence occurrs Dublin City in this case the court appearance takes place in that district as am from Louth?

In my experience as an observer, the court appearance takes place in the district where the traffic offense occurred.

I have seen cases where the defendent travelled half the length of the country to appear before the district court for a traffic offense that occurred in the district court's area.

Some judges appreciate the effort made by the defendant to turn up in person and the respect it shows for the court. It can dispose some to be a bit more lenient in their consideration of the case, as can appearing with a solicitor as it shows that the defendant recognises the seriousness of the court summons.

The summons should indicate the court, date and time where you need to appear. A solicitor who works in that court district should know the judges there best.

FishOnABike · 28-05-2019 6:09pm

By the way if your main car is off the road for the foreseeable future and it has more than three months tax remaining I think you can claim a refund on the balance of the motor tax paid if you declare it off the road.

GM228 · 28-05-2019 6:15pm

FishOnABike wrote: »

By the way if your main car is off the road for the foreseeable future and it has more than three months tax remaining I think you can claim a refund on the balance of the motor tax paid if you declare it off the road.

Not for an off road declaration.

A vehicle not used refund is next to impossible to get because you can only claim it before the current tax disc commences, it's pointless because you must apply for the disc then return immediately.

mgbgt1978 · 28-05-2019 7:26pm

Jesus wept. Six pages in and we're still discussing this.
The OP got the answer to his question in post #5.
Even the Op is taking a 2 week holiday from it at this stage

.

francie81 · 28-05-2019 8:17pm

mgbgt1978 wrote: »

Jesus wept. Six pages in and we're still discussing this.
The OP got the answer to his question in post #5.
Even the Op is taking a 2 week holiday from it at this stage .

30-05-2019 6:55am

Op. How old is the spare car and does it have a valid nct

francie81 · 30-05-2019 6:52pm

9935452 wrote: »

Op. How old is the spare car and does it have a valid nct

2003 and NCT expires beginning of June.

Hotblack Desiato · 31-05-2019 12:16pm

Isambard wrote: »

That's true. Nothing to stop him paying the tax from now , nothing has happened to stop this as a summons has not been issued.

When taxing again after a SORN don't you have to declare the car has not been used or parked in a public place during the SORN period?

31-05-2019 9:31pm

francie81 wrote: »

9935452 wrote: »

Op. How old is the spare car and does it have a valid nct

2003 and NCT expires beginning of June.

I dont want to be pointing fingers but how did you bring the car for the nct?
Im going to assume you drove it there while declared off the road
If thats the case my advice is to tax the car and pay the back tax..
The judge will ask you the same questions

Del2005 · 31-05-2019 11:54pm

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

When taxing again after a SORN don't you have to declare the car has not been used or parked in a public place during the SORN period?

No that was the old system where you swore a statutory declaration that you didn't use the vehicle in a public place. The new system you have to declare it off the road before the tax expires, or 10 days of purchasing, and the only thing you need to do to get back on the road is tax it. If you get caught driving while you have it declared off the road then you have to pay all the back tax

Motor tax summons

Comments