What type of saw do I need?

Always Tired · 14-05-2019 7:13pm #1

I make small paintings on plywood or mdf panels. The 2 places in town that sells them only sells big sheets and neither will cut them down as they say they aren't insured for power tools. But they'll usually give me some offcuts which I used to get cut down by a neighbor who had a table saw.

Anyway this neighbor moved so I have no way of cutting the wood down. I've looked up stuff online about how to make straight cuts with a circular saw on the ground using a sheet of insulation board and a straight piece of wood (the factory edge of a piece of timber).

Would that be a feasible way of cutting down offcuts into panels that are about 10 x 12 inch or 10 x 14 in.? Or would I need a table saw?

I've never owned or used either, I've only ever used a mitre box and hand saw for cutting 2x1s to use as a backing/hangiing frame that i glue on once my paintings are completed. I don't have a large shed for storing a table saw and circular saws are cheaper, but a table saw looks like it would be easier to get straight cuts. Suppose I'm asking which would you recommend for a beginner wanting to cut small rectangular panels of 1/2" thick plywood?

Calahonda52 · 14-05-2019 8:06pm

Without due care, both are dangerous tools, so maybe best to look for a new neighbour

Dust from mdf is not good.

Where is "in town"?

You might have more traction in the Woodcraft section..
You will find someone to do it.
I would not, based on your post, recommend either tool: as an artist you need all ten fingers

my3cents · 14-05-2019 8:12pm

Find a local carpenter and ask them if they will do it for you or as suggested a hobbyist would help out.

Where are you? If you are anywhere in Co Waterford I could cut a sheet up into standard sizes for you.

If they can't cut them how do the local places end up with off cuts?

listermint · 14-05-2019 8:55pm

I'd go opposite you are into wood working as an art form.

You should get a plunge cut saw and learn to use it.

It's easy if your safe.

Don't be relying on people if woodworking is your hobby.

cletus · 14-05-2019 9:03pm

I'm with listermint. Find somebody willing to show you have to use a circular saw/plunge saw correctly.

As the saying goes, give a man a fish, feed him for today. Show a man how to fish, and he can make pictures for the rest of his life...or something like that

the_pen_turner · 14-05-2019 9:04pm

Buy a cheap track saw.
Fairly safe and does a great job

T-Maxx · 14-05-2019 9:05pm

A table saw is the right tool for the job. It may also be an option to buy ready cut pieces in bulk.

Always Tired · 14-05-2019 9:10pm

my3cents wrote: »

Find a local carpenter and ask them if they will do it for you or as suggested a hobbyist would help out.

Where are you? If you are anywhere in Co Waterford I could cut a sheet up into standard sizes for you.

If they can't cut them how do the local places end up with off cuts?

I dunno, they dont usually have many but if i were to buy the sheets they said they would only be able to cut the 8 x 4 in half once.

I understand how some are saying to steer clear so i wont cut my hand off but I'm not totally useless at woodwork, I had to make a 7 x 5 foot canvas stetcher with mitred corners and a cross brace in college, its just most of the cuts were made by hand as it wasn't sheets it was planks.

Table saws look pretty straightforward, is it really a tool that would be hard to learn to cut a few rectangles on? Also I know an older fella who has used them before could help me, he has loads of tools but no table saw. He was mates with the neighbor that used to cut them down for me.

riffmongous · 14-05-2019 9:10pm

Circular saw on the ground?

I'd say a circular saw will take a bit of practice to get really good straight cuts, even using a good guide but it's probably the easiest way for you to do it yourself.. but for the love of god learn how to use it properly first, and do some research on how to buy a good one

14-05-2019 9:16pm

Always Tired wrote: »

I make small paintings on plywood or mdf panels. The 2 places in town that sells them only sells big sheets and neither will cut them down as they say they aren't insured for power tools. But they'll usually give me some offcuts which I used to get cut down by a neighbor who had a table saw.

Anyway this neighbor moved so I have no way of cutting the wood down. I've looked up stuff online about how to make straight cuts with a circular saw on the ground using a sheet of insulation board and a straight piece of wood (the factory edge of a piece of timber).

Would that be a feasible way of cutting down offcuts into panels that are about 10 x 12 inch or 10 x 14 in.? Or would I need a table saw?

I've never owned or used either, I've only ever used a mitre box and hand saw for cutting 2x1s to use as a backing/hangiing frame that i glue on once my paintings are completed. I don't have a large shed for storing a table saw and circular saws are cheaper, but a table saw looks like it would be easier to get straight cuts. Suppose I'm asking which would you recommend for a beginner wanting to cut small rectangular panels of 1/2" thick plywood?

If your near Cabra, Goslins do smaller panels and will also cut them for you.

Always Tired · 14-05-2019 9:20pm

riffmongous wrote: »

Circular saw on the ground?

I'd say a circular saw will take a bit of practice to get really good straight cuts, even using a good guide but it's probably the easiest way for you to do it yourself.. but for the love of god learn how to use it properly first, and do some research on how to buy a good one

I could post the link that explains it but anyway, from what some other things I've read it sounds like you're right that a circular saw would need a bit more skill and practice compared to a table saw.

I AM doing research, this is part of me doing research asking this question!

my3cents · 14-05-2019 9:23pm

Out of the box a table saw may not be that great with MDF you usually get a fairly general purpose type of blade that is a bit low on the tooth count to do a really good job on MDF or thinner sheets of plywood.

14-05-2019 9:23pm

riffmongous wrote: »

Circular saw on the ground?

You see it a lot on YouTube especially for large panels of plywood. The argument for it I believe is that your mainly behind the saw, and you don't have your leg near the blade.

Fann Linn · 14-05-2019 9:24pm

On the subject of saws, what would the experts recommend for cutting pallet timber? Not so much for firewood, but for diy garden projects etc?
Thanks.

Still waters · 14-05-2019 9:27pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

On the subject of saws, what would the experts recommend for cutting pallet timber? Not so much for firewood, but for diy garden projects etc?
Thanks.

I find a chainsaw best for cutting pallets

riffmongous · 14-05-2019 9:28pm

Always Tired wrote: »

I could post the link that explains it but anyway, from what some other things I've read it sounds like you're right that a circular saw would need a bit more skill and practice compared to a table saw.

I AM doing research, this is part of me doing research asking this question!

Please don't post it, I don't want to even know about it.

I don't mean to chastise you OP, just make sure you know how dangerous they can be.

14-05-2019 9:29pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

On the subject of saws, what would the experts recommend for cutting pallet timber? Not so much for firewood, but for diy garden projects etc?
Thanks.

Any saw would do it but the most versatile for that would be a jigsaw.
You can cut curves as well as straight lines.
Don't buy the cheap ones because they won't have speed control.
60/70/80 would get a decent DIY grade tool.

14-05-2019 9:33pm

As for the OP.
As you said yourself a tablesaw is what you need.
Where are you based?

listermint · 14-05-2019 9:48pm

No offence to all the lads offering advice here. But having used circular saws and table saws for years. Table saw is far more dangerous. Especially in the hands of someone starting out. Pinch points are much easier to find when moving the piece and not the saw.

A plunge saw on a track is what he needs.

pablo128 · 14-05-2019 9:53pm

B & Q might cut a board for you. They are used to cutting sheets and lengths of timber to fit into cars and vans for people.

Calahonda52 · 14-05-2019 9:58pm

Its a pity OP wont give SOME idea where he is based

my3cents · 14-05-2019 9:59pm

listermint wrote: »

No offence to all the lads offering advice here. But having used circular saws and table saws for years. Table saw is far more dangerous. Especially in the hands of someone starting out. Pinch points are much easier to find when moving the piece and not the saw.

A plunge saw on a track is what he needs.

While I'll thank you for that post when the OP gets down to smaller sizes (say he wants 1ft by 1ft pieces or smaller then a track saw isn't really going to be ideal.

the_pen_turner · 14-05-2019 10:03pm

my3cents wrote: »

While I'll thank you for that post when the OP gets down to smaller sizes (say he wants 1ft by 1ft pieces or smaller then a track saw isn't really going to be ideal.

i have every option going i think, even multiples of some.
the track saw is the way i would go , everytime.

i regularly cut ply 1 foot or less. use a guide rail square and it is really easy and fast.

listermint · 14-05-2019 10:03pm

my3cents wrote: »

While I'll thank you for that post when the OP gets down to smaller sizes (say he wants 1ft by 1ft pieces or smaller then a track saw isn't really going to be ideal.

You can easily get down to foot by foot with a track saw.

And it will be cheaper for him to cut down large pieces into what he wants.

I'd the most ideal tool. He's not making small pieces of a foot is what he needs then that's very achievable

my3cents · 14-05-2019 10:05pm

the_pen_turner wrote: »

i have every option going i think, even multiples of some.
the track saw is the way i would go , everytime.

i regularly cut ply 1 foot or less. use a guide rail square and it is really easy and fast.

I was thinking in terms of setting up the tack saw for every cut.

the_pen_turner · 14-05-2019 10:10pm

my3cents wrote: »

I was thinking in terms of setting up the tack saw for every cut.

i get the impression the op needs a few here and there rather than hindreds of them regularly. a big fancy sliding tablesaw woule be faster but thousands of euro for a entry level one.

a basic low level track saw would be 200-300 euro .

Always Tired · 14-05-2019 10:21pm

Calahonda52 wrote: »

Its a pity OP wont give SOME idea where he is based

Sorry, I'm in Donegal Town.

I've gotten sheets cut down in Homebase before, but like I said there is no place near here willing to cut them down. This is the problem when you live in the sticks and dont have a car.

my3cents · 14-05-2019 10:24pm

Always Tired wrote: »

Sorry, I'm in Donegal Town.

I've gotten sheets cut down in Homebase before, but like I said there is no place near here willing to cut them down. This is the problem when you live in the sticks and dont have a car.

How many do you want what sizes and how often?

You'd could pay for an awful lot of cutting for the cost of a table saw.

BarryD2 · 14-05-2019 10:38pm

Track saw may well be a good option, I’ve never used one, so can’t advise. But a good solid table saw that is movable for site use is a very good investment. You can’t handle large 8x4s on it, but what I do is to cut larger sheets to a manageable size using a hand held circular saw with a guide. Then cut these smaller pieces to finished size on the table saw. But apart from that, that saw can do a lot of other jobs.

listermint · 14-05-2019 10:39pm

BarryD2 wrote: »

Track saw may well be a good option, I’ve never used one, so can’t advise. But a good solid table saw that is movable for site use is a very good investment. You can’t handle large 8x4s on it, but what I do is to cut larger sheets to a manageable size using a hand held circular saw with a guide. Then cut these smaller pieces to finished size on the table saw. But apart from that, that saw can do a lot of other jobs.

So buy two saws...

BarryD2 · 14-05-2019 10:44pm

listermint wrote: »

So buy two saws...

Maybe, but if hobbyist, always best I think to invest in tools that can do multiple jobs, reasonably well.

Always Tired · 14-05-2019 11:31pm

my3cents wrote: »

How many do you want what sizes and how often?

You'd could pay for an awful lot of cutting for the cost of a table saw.

The ones im working on now are 22 cm X 31 cm.

my3cents · 14-05-2019 11:34pm

Always Tired wrote: »

The ones im working on now are 22 cm X 31 cm.

But how quickly do you get through them?

If you went to somewhere with carpentry shop you could pay them to cut up whatever you wanted to whatever size you needed just the same as you could pay them to make a door or a window frame.

colm_mcm · 14-05-2019 11:35pm

A track saw would be far more manageable than a table saw. Most are horrendous at cutting sheets as they’re so small.

Aldi had a very good track saw a few weeks ago. Got some very clean cuts with it and it’s very easy to use.

Always Tired · 14-05-2019 11:36pm

listermint wrote: »

You can easily get down to foot by foot with a track saw.

And it will be cheaper for him to cut down large pieces into what he wants.

I'd the most ideal tool. He's not making small pieces of a foot is what he needs then that's very achievable

Cheers, I've looked them up and I think you're probably right. The smallest I do are 8 in x 10 in, i do that size and 9 x 11 quite often.

dodzy · 17-05-2019 8:39am

For those sizes, circular saw with guide rail would be the least cumbersome and well up to the job. Jigsaw was mentioned above. Steer clear of this if you want accuracy.

chillyspoon · 20-05-2019 2:35pm

Another voice for the tracksaw chorus - as a beginner with what you are trying to cut; a table saw is not what you need here.

Have a look at Peter Millard's tracksaw series on YouTube - it'll help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JQjGwZT3Ak&list=PL7S6M0i1Mz9pf2uo5SpFSWrQOu0qpjeIs

1) Tablesaw unwieldy and dangerous for cutting full size sheets unless you own a panel saw worth thousands -> which is not your use case as a beginner.
2) Jigsaw -> extremely difficult to get a fine and straight enough finish for your use case.
3) Circular saw -> better than both of the above but you'll struggle to get accurate 90 and 45 degree cuts even with a guide.
4) Tracksaw -> a circular saw on a proprietary guide rail; much easier to get those accurate cuts, mobile and can be adapted with numerous add-ons such as an MFT or Parf table later.

my3cents · 20-05-2019 3:35pm

chillyspoon wrote: »

...

1) Tablesaw unwieldy and dangerous for cutting full size sheets unless you own a panel saw worth thousands -> which is not your use case as a beginner.

.....

All you need for larger sheets is a couple of roller stands. The only problem with the average DIY tablesaw is that the table is small.

chillyspoon · 21-05-2019 9:32am

my3cents wrote: »

All you need for larger sheets is a couple of roller stands. The only problem with the average DIY tablesaw is that the table is small.

Yes - the core capacity can be achieved through rollers or better, to build the saw flush into a wider bench. However the OP is a self-stated absolute beginner, which makes other issues more important:

1) weight -> under the weight of a full sheet of 1/2" + material, even with roller support the saw will move unless bolted to the floor. I've done this on multiple types of job site saw from Einhell junk through to high end mobile saw, there's nothing quite like the cold sweat of feeling the entire saw begin to lift up when you're halfway through a sheet of 3/4" ply. For a beginner - this is downright dangerous.
2) power -> related to the above; most people are much stronger than the motors in cheap entry table level saws - anything under 1600 watts can easily be outpaced by someone pushing a full sheet through it.
3) beginner -> through no fault of their own does not know yet how to safely move something as big as a full sheet on a table saw. Period. Again I know this from personal mistakes. It's all too easy to drift off square and to bind in the blade.
4) price -> to buy a saw strong enough and heavy enough to handle full sheets safely on a regular basis is going to cost real money. An entry level track saw can be purchased for a couple of hundred euro, leaving money in the bank to invest in a tablesaw later if the tool bug bites, which is more palatable for most beginners.
5) space -> to put full sheets through a table saw requires either a permanent space big enough for the table saw to live ready to use, with that capacity taken into account or the pain of moving your tablesaw (which need to be heavy enough, have a strong enough motor etc per the above points) out somewhere big enough to do it each time it's done... whereas a tracksaw can simply be taken off a shelf, with the sheet to be cut laid the floor on top of a few scraps of 2x4 or a panel of insulation; exactly as the OP described in their original post.

All that said..

The table saw wins hands down on the ability to cut accurate mitres without much further investment. You can build a mitre sled for a tablesaw from a few bits of plywood in a couple of hours, which will be more than accurate enough for framing purposes.

To do the same thing in conjunction with a tracksaw for panel breakdown requires:
- really, really careful angle measurement or
- a mitre box and handsaw or
- either buying or building an MFT, Parf style or equivalent workstation bench or
- purchasing a sufficiently accurate mitre saw and a fine enough blade to suit your framing needs.

Since the OP already got a mitre box, it sounds like you're ok for the framing part and it's just the panels themselves that you need to break down, so I still think a tracksaw sounds like the approach to give you the least headaches.

chillyspoon · 21-05-2019 10:08am

Just one last thing - I noticed you're in Donegal OP; give Stanley at W.H. Raitt (https://www.whraitt.ie) a call - if there's somewhere local that would do the large cutting for you but might not be obvious without being in the business he might know some extra options.

listermint · 21-05-2019 12:00pm

my3cents wrote: »

All you need for larger sheets is a couple of roller stands. The only problem with the average DIY tablesaw is that the table is small.

That is not the only problem.

A table saw because you are feeding the piece in to it can easily catch the piece of the feeding person gets it slightly wrong left or right .

Have you ever had a working piece catch the blade and fire back at you . You'll swallow your heart for a moment.

There are many problems with a table saw . This is he most prolific. Not machines for beginners at all

my3cents · 21-05-2019 12:30pm

listermint wrote: »

That is not the only problem.

A table saw because you are feeding the piece in to it can easily catch the piece of the feeding person gets it slightly wrong left or right .

Have you ever had a working piece catch the blade and fire back at you . You'll swallow your heart for a moment.

There are many problems with a table saw . This is he most prolific. Not machines for beginners at all

Kickback is really not an issue with sheet materials. A full sheet while awkward is too heavy to move much in the worst conditions and once you have a sheet ripped down you are invariably going to cut against a fence to make the most accurate cuts.

I'd be far more worried about loosing fingers than kickback.

listermint · 21-05-2019 6:37pm

my3cents wrote: »

Kickback is really not an issue with sheet materials. A full sheet while awkward is too heavy to move much in the worst conditions and once you have a sheet ripped down you are invariably going to cut against a fence to make the most accurate cuts.

I'd be far more worried about loosing fingers than kickback.

Kickback is always an issue.

Please stop. Cheers

my3cents · 21-05-2019 7:11pm

listermint wrote: »

Kickback is always an issue.

Please stop. Cheers

Every so often google and your imagination let you down.

I've been cutting down 8x4 sheets this week as a lining to a shed and no sign of any kickback even with my less than practical son helping and making a mess of it.

I'm not saying that using a table saw is safe but your just making it up and looking for reasons to say don't use one.

listermint · 21-05-2019 9:36pm

my3cents wrote: »

Every so often google and your imagination let you down.

I've been cutting down 8x4 sheets this week as a lining to a shed and no sign of any kickback even with my less than practical son helping and making a mess of it.

I'm not saying that using a table saw is safe but your just making it up and looking for reasons to say don't use one.

Solid way to burn a table saws motor out. But sure go for it . You've been giving enough zanny advice about the definition of sds on another thread.

21-05-2019 11:15pm

my3cents wrote: »

Every so often google and your imagination let you down.

I've been cutting down 8x4 sheets this week as a lining to a shed and no sign of any kickback even with my less than practical son helping and making a mess of it.

I'm not saying that using a table saw is safe but your just making it up and looking for reasons to say don't use one.

I find myself in agreement with you more often than not, on a whole host of different threads and subjects. This isn't one of them.

I've had all sorts of tablesaws, from cheap SIP 10" ones with crap blades, then half decent Freud blades, then a Makita with a much better fence, a Record cabinet saw and a big german table saw with a sliding carriage.

Every single one of them could beat the crap out of you with a piece of flung sheet or cause real damage. Apart from some decent built-in safety related stuff on the bigger and better saws, there's no difference. A table saw can be a right bitch at times.

25 years of use and I still put my blinkers on, stand off where possible, pushstick the feck out of stuff and won't let anyone near me or the saw while it's running. The only safe table saw is one that's not running. Too many fellas missing fingers, half a hand, scars elsewhere, suffering serious bruising and the occasional broken bone/rib to be taking a relaxed 'sure, it'll be grand' approach to them.

A piece of Kingspan on the ground and a track saw or a decent fence and circular saw. Safer, relatively affordable, easy to move around and store. Worlds better for cross cutting than ANY table saw without a carriage. I don't see how you'd be okay with pushing a table saw on a novice, to be honest.

21-05-2019 11:20pm

my3cents wrote: »

Kickback is really not an issue with sheet materials. A full sheet while awkward is too heavy to move much in the worst conditions and once you have a sheet ripped down you are invariably going to cut against a fence to make the most accurate cuts.

I'd be far more worried about loosing fingers than kickback.

That's the particularly risky move to be making, exactly when a kickback is most likely. And if you've never seen the way a 10" cheap saw with an alloy or folded steel top and a plastic base will shift when it happens, maybe you don't realise that losing fingers when it happens is far from impossible.

Have a look at this, and be patient, as he's not exactly all set up for a life on camera.

chillyspoon · 22-05-2019 8:19am

Have a look at the Triton tracksaw OP, it's not as fancy as the DeWalt and Festool options but is a bit better spec'd than the Aldi/Scheppach entry level saw and should be plenty for your needs. If you look up Matt Cremona on YouTube, you can see him use this saw in loads of his table and bench builds.

Klopp · 29-05-2020 3:25pm

I tried Lidl for the saw on the day albeit later than i planned and they had none left in stock.I am looking at the Makita HS7601J on Amazon for a few DIY projects and fixings i need to get started on.

Lumen · 29-05-2020 3:37pm

Has anyone replaced the standard 6-8ft cord on a common saw (e.g. Makita, DeWalt, Bosch) with a very long one?

On several US Youtube videos I've seen them working with Skilsaws that are fitted with 12-18m cords, and I can see how that would be incredibly useful. Extension cords are a pain in the hole.

I dimly remember something about cord replacement being practically illegal now, but hopefully that's bollocks.

Four Phucs Ache · 29-05-2020 6:18pm

I did years ago Lumen, just bought a matching certified 10m cord reel and certified insulated connector and did it myself.

What type of saw do I need?

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