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Bore vent in old wall - diamond core bit, what drill?

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  • 21-05-2019 10:57am
    #1
    Esho
    Registered Users Posts: 672 ✭✭✭


    Hi,

    I need to put a vent in an old wall, wouldve been built in the 50s or so, so its not concrete breezeblock or red bricks.
    It looks like there are stones as part of the blocks in the wall.

    I couldn't believe that the first cm or so was just like sand - must be the old way of putting on render or something. The walls must drink in the rain in winter.

    I tried drilling a few holes with a masonry bit, but I think I need a diamond bit.

    Do these bits need a special drill or would a power drill do if I took it easy?

    Any words to the wise appreciated.


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    #2
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,082 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Do you have a photo of the wall in question?
    Especially of the area you have started drilling?

    Is this a main house wall or somewhere else?


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    #3
    Esho
    Registered Users Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Esho


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Do you have a photo of the wall in question?
    Especially of the area you have started drilling?

    Is this a main house wall or somewhere else?

    Sorry no photo, it is an external wall of the house.


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    #4
    Esho
    Registered Users Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Esho


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Do you have a photo of the wall in question?
    Especially of the area you have started drilling?

    Is this a main house wall or somewhere else?


    Sorry no photo. It is the main external wall.


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    #5
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,692 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Diamond core bit and an SDS drill with a working clutch system


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    #6
    my3cents
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    But don't use the SDS feature with a diamond core drill.


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    #7
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,692 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    my3cents wrote: »
    But don't use the SDS feature with a diamond core drill.

    Slotted drive is just how the bit is held in the chuck.

    Why would that matter to the diamond bit ? Specifically


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    #8
    my3cents
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    listermint wrote: »
    Slotted drive is just how the bit is held in the chuck.

    Why would that matter to the diamond bit ? Specifically

    Well there we go again practical advice from someone that hasn't a clue and has never done the job.

    I'm at a loss here to explain the obvious.

    A diamond bit cuts by grinding so the SDS function in this case won't help. Hammer the metal that holds the diamonds into the concrete and they won't last very long.


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    #9
    5T3PH3N
    Registered Users Posts: 542 ✭✭✭5T3PH3N


    my3cents wrote: »
    Well there we go again practical advice from someone that hasn't a clue and has never done the job.

    I'm at a loss here to explain the obvious.

    A diamond bit cuts by grinding so the SDS function in this case won't help. Hammer the metal that holds the diamonds into the concrete and they won't last very long.

    Sds is the way the bit fits in the chuck, that’s what he was saying so he is correct.
    You mean to say, turn off hammer rotate mode, and use rotate only. You can’t not use the sds feature on an sds drill unless you have a replaceable chuck


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    #10
    Purgative
    Registered Users Posts: 2,509 ✭✭✭Purgative


    my3cents wrote: »
    Well there we go again practical advice from someone that hasn't a clue and has never done the job.

    I'm at a loss here to explain the obvious.

    A diamond bit cuts by grinding so the SDS function in this case won't help. Hammer the metal that holds the diamonds into the concrete and they won't last very long.


    SDS/SDS Plus, is the shank on the bit. The way its connected to the machine.


    Maybe he doesn't then need a hammer action with a diamond bit?


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    #11
    my3cents
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    So next time someone recommends using an SDS drill they aren't doing it because and SDS drill has a percussive action but because it has a particular type of chuck?


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    #12
    5T3PH3N
    Registered Users Posts: 542 ✭✭✭5T3PH3N


    my3cents wrote: »
    So next time someone recommends using an SDS drill they aren't doing it because and SDS drill has a percussive action but because it has a particular type of chuck?

    If you put a sds bit in an sds chuck, it can move it in and out right?
    If you put a core bit using the sds shank in an sds chuck it also moves in and out, it’s just the way an sds chuck works.
    You can’t turn off sds unless the sds chuck comes off and can be replaced by a Rohm type chuck.
    You’re right in that you don’t want to use hammer mode when using a diamond core.


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    #13
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,692 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    my3cents wrote: »
    Well there we go again practical advice from someone that hasn't a clue and has never done the job.

    I'm at a loss here to explain the obvious.

    A diamond bit cuts by grinding so the SDS function in this case won't help. Hammer the metal that holds the diamonds into the concrete and they won't last very long.

    Oh Jesus wept.

    I just put in 16 core holes into my own house using a 1000 euro wet or dry core drill. Myself

    I think I know what I'm talking about

    You clearly don't have a breeze what sds means that much is evident.

    Also I'd recommend you don't presume what someone's background is or what they do with their time because you might end up with egg on your face like here.

    Hammer action ....


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    #14
    dathi
    Registered Users Posts: 1,386 ✭✭✭dathi


    What does SDS+ mean?
    There are various claims for the meaning of SDS+, the most commonly accepted being ‘Slotted Drive System’ although it is more likely to stem from the original German phrase ‘steck, dreh, sitzt’ that translates as ‘insert, twist, fits’. Bosch use another term; Special Direct System, for international purposes.


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    #15
    Esho
    Registered Users Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Esho


    So is SDS your normal chuck that you can tighten with a chuck key?



    I inherited my dad's Bosch hammer drill that he bought in the 80s.
    It is very solid - I'll use the diamond core (without the hammer) and give it time to rest so it doesn't burn out.


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    #16
    Purgative
    Registered Users Posts: 2,509 ✭✭✭Purgative


    Esho wrote: »
    So is SDS your normal chuck that you can tighten with a chuck key?



    I inherited my dad's Bosch hammer drill that he bought in the 80s.
    It is very solid - I'll use the diamond core (without the hammer) and give it time to rest so it doesn't burn out.


    No


    SDS is a splined drill that needs a special keyless chuck.


    Like these https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Piece-Drill-10mm-Lifetime-Warranty/dp/B078P1JF6Z/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=sds+bits&qid=1558539084&s=gateway&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1


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    #17
    my3cents
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,764 ✭✭✭my3cents


    This explains it fairly well.



    You will not that it is possible to get an auger that fits a standard drill.

    However I'd recommend hiring the core bit and an SDS drill of suitable size as recommend by the hire shop.


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    #18
    Bullocks
    Registered Users Posts: 5,890 ✭✭✭Bullocks


    Purgative wrote: »
    No


    SDS is a splined drill that needs a special keyless chuck.


    Like these https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Piece-Drill-10mm-Lifetime-Warranty/dp/B078P1JF6Z/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?keywords=sds+bits&qid=1558539084&s=gateway&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1
    What diameter hole do you need?
    What thickness is the wall you need to go through?
    If the first cm or so is sandy it's probably because it was plastered over with sand and cement.
    If you need a big diameter bit and it's just one hole it might be as handy get someone with a core drill to do it instead of buying one.
    Be careful going through a stone wall either way in case the bit binds up and pulls the drill around. I think another poster mentioned a drill with a clutch. The clutch will slip and not let the drill spin in your hands if it does bind up.
    You can hire drills for this aswell but you will need to buy the bit as they don't supply them.


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    #19
    Purgative
    Registered Users Posts: 2,509 ✭✭✭Purgative


    Bullocks wrote: »
    What diameter hole do you need?
    What thickness is the wall you need to go through?
    If the first cm or so is sandy it's probably because it was plastered over with sand and cement.
    If you need a big diameter bit and it's just one hole it might be as handy get someone with a core drill to do it instead of buying one.
    Be careful going through a stone wall either way in case the bit binds up and pulls the drill around. I think another poster mentioned a drill with a clutch. The clutch will slip and not let the drill spin in your hands if it does bind up.
    You can hire drills for this aswell but you will need to buy the bit as they don't supply them.


    I don't. I am not the OP. I was replying to the OP's question.


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    #20
    Bullocks
    Registered Users Posts: 5,890 ✭✭✭Bullocks


    Purgative wrote: »
    Bullocks wrote: »
    What diameter hole do you need?
    What thickness is the wall you need to go through?
    If the first cm or so is sandy it's probably because it was plastered over with sand and cement.
    If you need a big diameter bit and it's just one hole it might be as handy get someone with a core drill to do it instead of buying one.
    Be careful going through a stone wall either way in case the bit binds up and pulls the drill around. I think another poster mentioned a drill with a clutch. The clutch will slip and not let the drill spin in your hands if it does bind up.
    You can hire drills for this aswell but you will need to buy the bit as they don't supply them.


    I don't.  I am not the OP.  I was replying to the OP's question.
    Sorry I quoted the wrong post horse


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    #21
    antiskeptic
    Registered Users Posts: 9,555 ✭✭✭antiskeptic


    Esho wrote: »
    Hi,

    I need to put a vent in an old wall, wouldve been built in the 50s or so, so its not concrete breezeblock or red bricks.
    It looks like there are stones as part of the blocks in the wall.

    Stones as in the stones you find on a beach. Then mass concrete.

    Drill a few holes with a normal rotary hammer masonary drill. A domestic / hammer action thing won't touch it. You can get a rotary hammer on Screwfix for about 80 quid. And it seconds as a Kango.


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    #22
    Esho
    Registered Users Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Esho


    Good one thanks folks..

    It is to insert a vent brick under the floor line, which is about 4-5 cm high, the bit is around 50. And the rental I'm guessing is around 30 or so.

    All said, it might be easier to pay someone with a drill to do it. I'll check that out - thanks for that.


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    #23
    gctest50
    Registered Users Posts: 9,605 ✭✭✭gctest50


    my3cents wrote: »
    Well there we go again practical advice from someone that hasn't a clue and has never done the job.



    ,........... Hammer the metal that holds the diamonds into the concrete and they won't last very long.

    You should have told marcrist dat 5 years ago .,.




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    #24
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,082 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    gctest50 wrote: »
    You should have told marcrist dat 5 years ago .,.



    TBF that is one of the very few diamond hole saws that allows use in a percussion drill.
    And even they say "Works on most percussion machines. (Not designed to be used on SDS Hammer Action)"


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    #25
    In the wind
    Registered Users Posts: 238 ✭✭In the wind


    listermint wrote: »
    Oh Jesus wept.

    I just put in 16 core holes into my own house using a 1000 euro wet or dry core drill. Myself

    I think I know what I'm talking about

    Hi Listermint, All,

    I potentially have a similar job ahead of me & i hope you can share your experience of the job...Did you use a mountable drill or handheld? I saw videos showing a mountable drill with water cooling / lubricant, seemed a bit over the top to me.
    • What size core bit did you use for the vents?
    • Did you buy or rent the drill? What did you pay if you rented? I'm trying to figure out if I should just get a professional ($$?) or DIY
    • Is the vent hole size regulated to your knowledge? Min 4"?
    • I need venting but I want to optimize it as small as i can & still be an effective vent.

    Appreciate any advice or lessons learned you could share.
    Thanks.


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    #26
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,082 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    ^ how thick are your walls will answer most of your questions about DIY/pro/mounted/hand-held tbh


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    #27
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,692 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    In the wind wrote: »
    Hi Listermint, All,

    I potentially have a similar job ahead of me & i hope you can share your experience of the job...Did you use a mountable drill or handheld? I saw videos showing a mountable drill with water cooling / lubricant, seemed a bit over the top to me.
    • What size core bit did you use for the vents?
    • Did you buy or rent the drill? What did you pay if you rented? I'm trying to figure out if I should just get a professional ($$?) or DIY
    • Is the vent hole size regulated to your knowledge? Min 4"?
    • I need venting but I want to optimize it as small as i can & still be an effective vent.



    I had 16 holes to do with 100mm block 100mm Cavity and 100mm Block. I bought the Core Drill and then bought new diamond core for it. Also got an extension arbour for the distance of it. You can get core drills that are 500mm long but i couldnt pick one up in time so the arbour was used.

    I did it manually. however the drill i got was a high spec wet and dry that could take a wall mounting frame. If i was doing more or keeping the drill i would have bought the frame. Hand drilling them was zero fun. Didnt enjoy any of it especially as had to drill from an elevated position off the ground.

    My advice is, unless you are completely comfortable with power tools (entirely comfortable) and you have a stone cold determination to complete a job come what may then dont do it. Get a professional in and pay for it. They will have it done in less than half the time.


    Appreciate any advice or lessons learned you could share.
    Thanks.


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    #28
    In the wind
    Registered Users Posts: 238 ✭✭In the wind


    That really helps, thank you. I too will need to do it from a ladder/elevated. I don't know the make up or thickness of the walls yet.

    Might just get a professional in. A plumber I suppose, odd as that seems?


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    #29
    In the wind
    Registered Users Posts: 238 ✭✭In the wind


    GreeBo wrote: »
    ^ how thick are your walls will answer most of your questions about DIY/pro/mounted/hand-held tbh

    I don't know yet. Leaning heavily towards getting a professional although I know i could DIY it I'm not sure I want to. Thanks GreeBo.


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    #30
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,082 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    In the wind wrote: »
    I don't know yet. Leaning heavily towards getting a professional although I know i could DIY it I'm not sure I want to. Thanks GreeBo.

    If you are going to be up a ladder (rather than say a bench or platform) then I would just get someone in.

    To do it properly and safely its just not worth getting all the gear that you will likely never use again.


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    #31
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 7,499 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    In the wind wrote: »
    A plumber I suppose, odd as that seems?

    Na,get the phonebook out and there are lads that specialize in hole drilling.


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