Guinness Pro 14- Tv Viewing Options

troyzer · 03-05-2019 10:22am

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

From reading it seems that Eir - which I very nearly switched to - was a one season wonder??

How can one get Pro14 and Champions cup next season or has it been announced yet?

And what is it likely to cost?

I've been on the stream and VPN model this season to great effect, but I feel that gravy train is soon to run out

It looks like you'll probably have to have a Sky Sports subscription plus a few extra quid to get Champions Cup.

And you'll need to pay for Eir as well to get Pro14.

The balkanisation of sports continues.

Former Former · 03-05-2019 10:25am

Cookiemunster wrote: »

Is Sky Sports available on Virgin? If it is BT should be as it'll be part of the Sky Sports package.

This hasn't been confirmed, but the only reason you couldn't get BT on Virgin was because Eir had the rights to BT and were competing with Virgin for broadband subscribers.

If that is no longer the case, there's no reason why you shouldn't be able to get BT via Virgin. I doubt it will be part of the Sky Sports pack though, most likely an an add-on option.

awec · 03-05-2019 10:29am

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

From reading it seems that Eir - which I very nearly switched to - was a one season wonder??

How can one get Pro14 and Champions cup next season or has it been announced yet?

And what is it likely to cost?

I've been on the stream and VPN model this season to great effect, but I feel that gravy train is soon to run out

Champions Cup is still on BT, which will now be sold via Sky. Whether or not it's included within your Sky Sports sub, or is an extra sub, is unknown.

Pro14 is still on Eir, but they are losing their access to Premier Sports. I reckon Premier Sports coverage is really the reason why Eir were able to show so many games. Next season Eir would have to produce all the games themselves, which I think they are unlikely to do, so we will probably have less televised games.

For Eir Sports subscribers who are not Eir broadband customers Eir Sports cost €27 a month. Without BT Sport there is no value here. Eir would have to slash their prices down to like €10 a month, and if they are not showing all the games then even that seems like a stretch.

I think it's not that unlikely that in the near future Eir Sport will go the way of Setanta and just disappear.

sydthebeat · 03-05-2019 10:53am

anyone want try to do a graphic or table of what rugby is going to be supplied by what provider next season?
its all very confusing and very hard to plan or see what the best service is.

awec · 03-05-2019 11:04am

Sky TV Subscribers
Aviva Premiership
Champions Cup (via BT Sport)

Virgin Subscribers
Champions Cup** (via BT Sport)
Aviva Premiership (via Sky Sports)

Eir Subscribers
Pro14

** - Presuming Virgin do a deal with Sky.

The big questions are:

1. What will be the extent of Eir's Pro14 coverage given they no longer have the Premier Sports coverage as one of their channels. It is likely, IMO, that there will only be select games televised each week.
2. What will the price of Eir Sport be. For it to be worth it the price will have to be slashed to a fraction of what it is today.

Tigerandahalf · 03-05-2019 11:07am

C4/Virgin will have a few CC games live (only 1 per weekend)
BT have live rights to all CC games.

Eir sports have the pro14 in the ROI
Premier Sports have the pro14 in UK and NI.
TG4/S4C have some games live too.

I am thinking a vpn and £10 for Premier Sports may be an option for some, though that price is likely to rise with additional rights required lately.

If Eir lose the Premier Sports games they will have very little to offer to a subscriber.

Pro14 struggling to sell their 1/4 final tickets it seems. The league is being choked by the national teams' dominance.

The Aviva Premiership is on BT, not Sky.

sydthebeat · 03-05-2019 11:09am

so if you throw super rugby and top 14 into that sky bundle... its starting to make it look a lot more attractive.....
fcuking would kill me to have to get a sports package from them though

aloooof · 03-05-2019 11:11am

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I am thinking a vpn and £10 for Premier Sports may be an option for some, though that price is likely to rise with additional rights required lately.

If you're going the VPN route, could you not go with the Pro14 app?

arsebiscuits1 · 03-05-2019 11:12am

aloooof wrote: »

If you're going the VPN route, could you not go with the Pro14 app?

Rugbypass is the best way if you're doing this route.

You don't get any pre or post match analysis but you do get match feed and commentary

Tigerandahalf · 03-05-2019 11:15am

Rugbypass is an option but can you chromecast it?

It is inevitable it will be blocked soon. The eurosport player already makes you put on 'location' so it knows where you are.

Though with eu rules broadcasters may not be able to do it. Eurosport is different in that it provides different content to different countries.

awec · 03-05-2019 11:16am

sydthebeat wrote: »

so if you throw super rugby and top 14 into that sky bundle... its starting to make it look a lot more attractive.....
fcuking would kill me to have to get a sports package from them though

If you throw in other rugby, and other sports that people likely care about:

Sky TV Subscribers
Aviva Premiership
Champions Cup (via BT Sport)
Challenge Cup (via BT Sport)
Top 14
Super Rugby
Premier League
Champions League (via BT Sport)
Europa League (via BT Sport)
Golf

Virgin Subscribers
Aviva Premiership (via Sky Sports)
Champions Cup (via BT Sport)
Challenge Cup (via BT Sport)
Top 14 (via Sky Sports)
Super Rugby (via Sky Sports)
Premier League (via Sky Sports)
Champions League (via BT Sport and Virgin Media Sport)
Europa League (via BT Sport and Virgin Media Sport)
Golf (via Sky Sports)

Eir Subscribers
Pro14
Allianz League

This of course presuming Virgin do a deal with Sky for the BT Channels.

Easy to see what the odd one out is.

Tigerandahalf · 03-05-2019 11:19am

Top14 is on Sky.

arsebiscuits1 · 03-05-2019 11:21am

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Rugbypass is an option but can you chromecast it?

It is inevitable it will be blocked soon. The eurosport player already makes you put on 'location' so it knows where you are.

Though with eu rules broadcasters may not be able to do it. Eurosport is different in that it provides different content to different countries.

I've not tried to Chromecast. Good old fashioned HDMI never fails me!

But yeah I think it's days are numbered. I think they blocked VPN traffic on the Rugby Championship 2018 AFAIK.

Which is frustrating. It's a legal service which I paid $160 dollars for.

I'm not a sponger and am happy to pay for a service. What I am not happy to do is be pedalled complex packages over different platforms selling me useless ****e I wont need.

Tigerandahalf · 03-05-2019 11:28am

Hopefully Now TV will also have BT sport. That would be a great option as you can stream it on holidays etc.

irelandrover · 03-05-2019 11:40am

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Rugbypass is an option but can you chromecast it?

It is inevitable it will be blocked soon. The eurosport player already makes you put on 'location' so it knows where you are.

Though with eu rules broadcasters may not be able to do it. Eurosport is different in that it provides different content to different countries.

You can chromecast it. Works great.

Former Former · 03-05-2019 11:46am

Looking at UK prices, it seems that adding BT Sport to your Sky sub is 25 - 30 stg per month for standard definition. I'm sure they run promotions etc but that seems to be the base price.

That's a lot of money, especially if you're used to getting it for free via Eir.

troyzer · 03-05-2019 11:50am

Former Former wrote: »

Looking at UK prices, it seems that adding BT Sport to your Sky sub is 25 - 30 stg per month for standard definition. I'm sure they run promotions etc but that seems to be the base price.

That's a lot of money, especially if you're used to getting it for free via Eir.

It looks like if you want to watch all rugby, you need to get Sky TV with Sky Sports, BT and a seperate Eir subscription.

That must be well over €100 a month. Just to watch rugby.

PMC83 · 03-05-2019 12:06pm

awec wrote: »

If you throw in other rugby, and other sports that people likely care about:

Sky TV Subscribers
Aviva Premiership
Champions Cup (via BT Sport)
Challenge Cup (via BT Sport)
Top 14
Super Rugby
Premier League
Champions League (via BT Sport)
Europa League (via BT Sport)
Golf

Virgin Subscribers
Aviva Premiership (via Sky Sports)
Champions Cup (via BT Sport)
Challenge Cup (via BT Sport)
Top 14 (via Sky Sports)
Super Rugby (via Sky Sports)
Premier League (via Sky Sports)
Champions League (via BT Sport and Virgin Media Sport)
Europa League (via BT Sport and Virgin Media Sport)
Golf (via Sky Sports)

Eir Subscribers
Pro14
Allianz League

This of course presuming Virgin do a deal with Sky for the BT Channels.

Easy to see what the odd one out is.

Losing BT from Eir is one thing, was never going to last, but loosing further PRO 14 games is an even bigger kick in the teeth. If they end up televising just the Provinces games, will this cut TG4 out altogether I wonder?

Don't know why Eir didn't tie in BT to a longer deal

Bazzo · 03-05-2019 12:36pm

Former Former wrote: »

Looking at UK prices, it seems that adding BT Sport to your Sky sub is 25 - 30 stg per month for standard definition. I'm sure they run promotions etc but that seems to be the base price.

That's a lot of money, especially if you're used to getting it for free via Eir.

I pay £36 a month for BT fibre broadband and TV including sports. Another £10 a month for premier sports. I don't give a flying **** for the most part about soccer though I'll watch it if it's on, if I do want to watch a match for any reason the local pub is 30 seconds down the road and guaranteed to be showing every single match humanly possible.

The only things I'm missing out on are super rugby for when I just can't get my fix at 7am and top 14 on a lazy Sunday.

awec · 03-05-2019 12:39pm

Bazzo wrote: »

I pay £36 a month for BT fibre broadband and TV including sports. Another £10 a month for premier sports. I don't give a flying **** for the most part about soccer though I'll watch it if it's on, if I do want to watch a match for any reason the local pub is 30 seconds down the road and guaranteed to be showing every single match humanly possible.

The only things I'm missing out on are super rugby for when I just can't get my fix at 7am and top 14 on a lazy Sunday.

You must have a very understanding wife!

Bazzo · 03-05-2019 12:47pm

awec wrote: »

You must have a very understanding wife!

I have a not very understanding girlfriend. But her father has been a fanatic Leinster fan all her life so she's at least used to it.

Unless you mean the price, to be honest I thought 46 quid a month for TV & internet including all the sports I wanted was a steal.

icdg · 03-05-2019 3:27pm

PMC83 wrote: »

Losing BT from Eir is one thing, was never going to last, but loosing further PRO 14 games is an even bigger kick in the teeth. If they end up televising just the Provinces games, will this cut TG4 out altogether I wonder?

Don't know why Eir didn't tie in BT to a longer deal

There shouldn’t be any effect on the amount of Pro14 games available on eir - they will still have rights to all of them - and they may still even be able to take Premier Sports coverage, or if not full coverage then at least “whistle to whistle” coverage using the world feed provided.

As for the length of the deal, it was for very practical reasons tied to the length of the Premier League’s TV rights deal.

connemara man · 14-05-2019 10:18am

The Pro 14 launching its own streaming service

https://t.co/BMXneJdfqE?amp=1

Homesick Alien · 14-05-2019 10:32am

connemara man wrote: »

The Pro 14 launching its own streaming service

https://t.co/BMXneJdfqE?amp=1

This was already available I think but only where they dont already have a broadcast partner

thomond2006 · 14-05-2019 10:33am

Why do fans in the UK, Republic of Ireland and South Africa not have the same access to PRO14 TV as some international fans?

Under PRO14’s existing broadcast agreements with broadcast partners, we are unable to offer fans in the UK, Republic of Ireland and South Africa the same access to live PRO14 TV content as some international fans. However, fans can sign up and watch the available on-demand (non-live) content free of charge. This also applies to all users who do not reside in an eligible territory to view live PRO14 matches.

https://pro14.tv/support/

On demand content free of charge? Wow.

thomond2006 · 14-05-2019 10:35am

I've signed up and you're able to watch the most recent games in full.
This looks fantastic.

awec · 14-05-2019 10:42am

thomond2006 wrote: »

I've signed up and you're able to watch the most recent games in full.
This looks fantastic.

Is there commentary?

arsebiscuits1 · 14-05-2019 11:03am

Slowly making our way to the world of on demand streaming service. Can't wait for it to become the norm.

Yearly pass with a VPN might be the way forward if Rugbypass starts blocking VPNs. The cynic in me thinks it's days are extremely numbered...

MJohnston · 14-05-2019 11:39am

Pro 14 could be in this sweet spot where it doesn't command enough immediate revenue from TV rights sales, so they decide that their own streaming platform, with direct (yet more spread-out) revenue, might be a better idea. I'd wonder if they'll seek to change the streaming rights in UK/Ireland/SA next time around so that they're only selling TV broadcast rights, and holding onto streaming themselves.

With the Champions Cup, the balance doesn't work there, I think. The competition itself has enough prestige and demand that there's more money to be made on upfront rights sales than in long-term streaming packages.

Or, maybe it's not even about which makes the most money, but the rights sales are a lump sum and a predictable source of income.

Podge_irl · 14-05-2019 11:48am

Feck sake, why is not available in Switzerland!?

Tigerandahalf · 14-05-2019 2:26pm

Can you cast it to the tv?

Edit - just signed up there and there seems to be a cast button.

icdg · 14-05-2019 2:57pm

MJohnston wrote: »

Pro 14 could be in this sweet spot where it doesn't command enough immediate revenue from TV rights sales, so they decide that their own streaming platform, with direct (yet more spread-out) revenue, might be a better idea. I'd wonder if they'll seek to change the streaming rights in UK/Ireland/SA next time around so that they're only selling TV broadcast rights, and holding onto streaming themselves.

Eir Sport will never buy rights on those terms, given their entire business model is driven on being a loss leader for Eir Broadband customers, and access to the app is crucial for Eir Broadband customers who don’t have either Sky or eir Vision to access the service.

errlloyd · 14-05-2019 7:21pm

I'm going to list some numbers randomly without any real analysis.

The Pro14 currently brings in ~18m per year broadcasting revenue almost entirely from it's main 5 regions. I reckon that's gonna be fairly nerfed at the next rights round because I think ~6m of that is South Africa and as far as I can tell no one at all watches it there.

This service costs 90e for an annual pass, 10e a month. On average customers will probably end up spending around 100e. So simplistically you'd need to get around 180k subscribers in order to make your 18m annual revenue. I've no idea how much studios / commentators / presenters and cameras cost. But presumably the boradcaster pays that rn.

According to this source, 450k on average watched the first four rounds of 16/17. That was pre South Africa, so maybe we can tag another 50k on for them? None of those rounds included interpros and I suspect very few internationals played. So somewhere around half a million people watched this on TV when it was Free To Air. Damningly we haven't had many recent releases so maybe that collapsed a bit when people had to start paying for it.

About 100k people have watched the highlights for round 21 on youtube. (So 7 matches, all of which were interpros). About 90k watched Round 9 (selected at random) which was an unimportant week. Obviously there is the potential for double accounting for people who watched more than one highlights video.

I've no idea how many people have season tickets for Pro14 clubs. Glasgow have 4.5k. I reckon Ulster, Leinster and Munster average about 12 or 13 and Connacht maybe 3.5k? I'd say Cardiff have a chunk too. Maybe 60k in total for the league?

Even if all of this is economically viable. I don't necessarily endorse taking it off TV unless they're going to do a damn good job of selling subscriptions. While Eirsport is sort of awkward, it is better for getting new fans than paywalled streaming services.

troyzer · 14-05-2019 8:09pm

errlloyd wrote: »

I'm going to list some numbers randomly without any real analysis.

The Pro14 currently brings in ~18m per year broadcasting revenue almost entirely from it's main 5 regions. I reckon that's gonna be fairly nerfed at the next rights round because I think ~6m of that is South Africa and as far as I can tell no one at all watches it there.

This service costs 90e for an annual pass, 10e a month. On average customers will probably end up spending around 100e. So simplistically you'd need to get around 180k subscribers in order to make your 18m annual revenue. I've no idea how much studios / commentators / presenters and cameras cost. But presumably the boradcaster pays that rn.

According to this source, 450k on average watched the first four rounds of 16/17. That was pre South Africa, so maybe we can tag another 50k on for them? None of those rounds included interpros and I suspect very few internationals played. So somewhere around half a million people watched this on TV when it was Free To Air. Damningly we haven't had many recent releases so maybe that collapsed a bit when people had to start paying for it.

About 100k people have watched the highlights for round 21 on youtube. (So 7 matches, all of which were interpros). About 90k watched Round 9 (selected at random) which was an unimportant week. Obviously there is the potential for double accounting for people who watched more than one highlights video.

I've no idea how many people have season tickets for Pro14 clubs. Glasgow have 4.5k. I reckon Ulster, Leinster and Munster average about 12 or 13 and Connacht maybe 3.5k? I'd say Cardiff have a chunk too. Maybe 60k in total for the league?

Even if all of this is economically viable. I don't necessarily endorse taking it off TV unless they're going to do a damn good job of selling subscriptions. While Eirsport is sort of awkward, it is better for getting new fans than paywalled streaming services.

The issue is that free to air TV is better for growth, pay TV is better for the current bottom line.

There are no easy answers here but ideally it would be on FTA.

Quin_Dub · 15-05-2019 11:50am

troyzer wrote: »

The issue is that free to air TV is better for growth, pay TV is better for the current bottom line.

There are no easy answers here but ideally it would be on FTA.

I guess the balance is about Cash directly from the TV company for a pay TV option versus the opportunity for increased sponsorship money at the team level as a result of the increased eyeballs available via FTA.

How much more might a sponsor pay to be on a Jersey if all the games were on Primetime Friday/Saturday on FTA and would that offset a reduced TV allocation for each club for a pay TV deal?

awec · 15-05-2019 11:52am

I would be quietly confident that the viewing figures, since going pay TV, are less than impressive. Premier won't even tell anyone how many subscribers they gained.

I expect Eir might wind up entirely once they lose the football, as I don't think the Pro14 is bringing in strong enough numbers to sustain their business as their lead product.

errlloyd · 15-05-2019 1:53pm

awec wrote: »

I would be quietly confident that the viewing figures, since going pay TV, are less than impressive. Premier won't even tell anyone how many subscribers they gained.

I expect Eir might wind up entirely once they lose the football, as I don't think the Pro14 is bringing in strong enough numbers to sustain their business as their lead product.

I suspect this is correct, and this is partly why the Pro14 are moving so quickly to establish streaming platforms.

troyzer · 15-05-2019 2:08pm

errlloyd wrote: »

awec wrote: »

I would be quietly confident that the viewing figures, since going pay TV, are less than impressive. Premier won't even tell anyone how many subscribers they gained.

I expect Eir might wind up entirely once they lose the football, as I don't think the Pro14 is bringing in strong enough numbers to sustain their business as their lead product.

I suspect this is correct, and this is partly why the Pro14 are moving so quickly to establish streaming platforms.

TV is dying. They'd be better off trying to flog it to Amazon.

Exclamation Marc · 15-05-2019 3:03pm

troyzer wrote: »

TV is dying. They'd be better off trying to flog it to Amazon.

A lot of people out there don't use streaming services or even know how. They'd be mad to cut out a large chunk of people still relying upon traditional television.

Henry Ford III · 15-05-2019 3:07pm

IPTV. It's the biz.

Former Former · 15-05-2019 3:23pm

errlloyd wrote: »

I suspect this is correct, and this is partly why the Pro14 are moving so quickly to establish streaming platforms.

But you still need someone to provide the pictures. The Pro14 can only stream the content that someone else provides.

So if Eir Sport does fold, they'll still need someone to step in.

Tigerandahalf · 15-05-2019 3:49pm

Former Former wrote: »

But you still need someone to provide the pictures. The Pro14 can only stream the content that someone else provides.

So if Eir Sport does fold, they'll still need someone to step in.

Most of the cameras/production is done by outside companies not eir sport directly.

It the same with the Premiership.

Streaming is a good way to future proof their model I guess. It also means you can watch from anywhere, on holidays or working away etc.

Former Former · 15-05-2019 3:57pm

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Most of the cameras/production is done by outside companies not eir sport directly.

It the same with the Premiership.

Streaming is a good way to future proof their model I guess. It also means you can watch from anywhere, on holidays or working away etc.

Yes, but you still need someone to contract with those providers, provide the commentary and analysis, advertise the games, whatever else needs to be done.

The Pro14 simply cannot do that themselves, just like the Premiership do not do it themselves.

The streaming service is a fill-in product, it cannot take the place of a proper broadcaster, unless someone like Amazon or YouTube gets in on the act but that's pie in the sky.

Best case would be TG4 to come back in for games in Ireland, Premier to continue for Scotland and Wales. Chances are Eir Sport will continue though.

Exclamation Marc · 15-05-2019 4:55pm

Former Former wrote: »

Yes, but you still need someone to contract with those providers, provide the commentary and analysis, advertise the games, whatever else needs to be done.

The Pro14 simply cannot do that themselves, just like the Premiership do not do it themselves.

The streaming service is a fill-in product, it cannot take the place of a proper broadcaster, unless someone like Amazon or YouTube gets in on the act but that's pie in the sky.

Best case would be TG4 to come back in for games in Ireland, Premier to continue for Scotland and Wales. Chances are Eir Sport will continue though.

Spot on. Since Eir took over it has been the first time we've been able to watch some of Leinsters games in Italy. They just weren't available to watch before that.

Tigerandahalf · 15-05-2019 5:04pm

Going forward it may happen that independent production companies will provide all the services including presenters and commentators. All hired on a contract basis.

The traditional broadcasters should still have a say but a lot of people are now turning on their tv and it is not straight to bbc1, rte2, etc.

If the pro14 developed a fan pass that allowed you to stream all your teams' games for a subscription it might work but the market is still very small.

icdg · 15-05-2019 5:52pm

What I can say is “be careful what you wish for, because you just might get it”.

This season, La Liga’s UK and Irish rights were sold exclusively to a streaming only service, Eleven Sports. It was an abject failure. It acquired several other rights (Serie A, the Dutch and Portuguese leagues, and the US PGA golf (last years, not this weekends). It handed them all back in February except for La Liga, and even then it renegotiated it’s contract so that it’s non exclusive, and non-exclusive rights were sold on to Premier Sports and ITV.

What does this prove? When it comes to live sports, streaming only is just not ready yet for the big time. People want to watch sports on an actual TV, not a laptop, and won’t put up with a “steaming delay” or buffering that means they’ll hear the neighbour shout “Goal!” before they see it happen.

Next season, UK viewers will have a small number of Premier League games on Amazon. It’ll be interesting to see how that turns out. Give the Eleven Sports experience I’m not sure it will end well, but in the UK there’s a lot more Prime subscribers for other reasons than there is here where there’s only a relatively weak (but cheap) Prime Video service offered. Those games will be on Premier Sports here.

As for the Pro14, they are one year into a three year deal. It’ll be another year before they’ll be looking at changing their TV rights arrangements again but I suspect it’ll be a traditional tender again, because despite what a previous poster said, TV is not dead, certainly not when it comes to live sports.

Former Former · 15-05-2019 6:15pm

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Going forward it may happen that independent production companies will provide all the services including presenters and commentators. All hired on a contract basis.

The traditional broadcasters should still have a say but a lot of people are now turning on their tv and it is not straight to bbc1, rte2, etc.

If the pro14 developed a fan pass that allowed you to stream all your teams' games for a subscription it might work but the market is still very small.

That sort of model might work for the Premier League or the NFL, it's not remotely likely for the Pro14.

errlloyd · 15-05-2019 6:25pm

It's not "might". That model does work perfectly for the NFL.

Edit: nope, I'm wrong.

mystic86 · 15-05-2019 9:03pm

Former Former wrote: »

Yes, but you still need someone to contract with those providers, provide the commentary and analysis, advertise the games, whatever else needs to be done.

The Pro14 simply cannot do that themselves, just like the Premiership do not do it themselves.

The streaming service is a fill-in product, it cannot take the place of a proper broadcaster, unless someone like Amazon or YouTube gets in on the act but that's pie in the sky.

Best case would be TG4 to come back in for games in Ireland, Premier to continue for Scotland and Wales. Chances are Eir Sport will continue though.

I know TG4 do a great job in general, on a tight budget, but I hate watching games in Irish.

awec · 14-06-2019 2:02pm

Got another cold call from Eir Sport yesterday trying to get me to not cancel and stay with them over the summer.

They basically said they'd give it to me for 15 quid a month over the summer and to ring back in August and they'll see what offers they have then. They must have a load of people cancelling at the moment.

I would imagine ~10 euro would need to become their new base price if they want to have any hope of retaining customers next year.

Guinness Pro 14- Tv Viewing Options

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