January 1st VAT Increase

deezell · 01-01-2019 2:04pm #1

So lets play 'spot the ripoff' with the new 4.5% hospitality VAT restoration, which in actual terms should show an increase of 4.12% on the price of affected goods. E.g, a €10 snack meal will now cost €10.41. This of course assumes they ever dropped the price to match the vat reduction.
I nominate Macs, who increased the price of a black coffee by 10% in my local. If you allow that they never dropped the price for the vat reduction, it's an increase of 20%. In their defence it has been the same price for ten years.

dudara · 01-01-2019 2:07pm

Moved to Rip Off Ireland

dudara

Batgurl · 01-01-2019 2:12pm

Why should it only be 4.12%?

deezell · 01-01-2019 2:56pm

Batgurl wrote: »

Why should it only be 4.12%?

Because prices currently include 9% vat, so a hotel night costing €109, €100 plus €9 vat, will now cost €113.5, a vat increase of €4.50, but a retail price increase of 113.5/109=1.0412, which is a 4.12% price increase

theguzman · 01-01-2019 3:53pm

Its a lovely Euro-esque opportunity to price hike. The tourism and hospitality industry should never get any Government support as they old pay minimum wage and generally exploit migrant workers unscrupulously. Hotels here are a ripoff and giving them a low tax rates only increases their profits. To hell with them and whilst the likes of Aer Lingus and Ryanair are still in Business I'll take my money elsewhere. If you want a weekend or midweek break in Ireland it is cheaper to drive or take the train to Belfast than pay a hotel in Dublin.

punisher5112 · 01-01-2019 3:55pm

I seen a pub in ballinteer had increased their breakfast price a couple of weeks back from €9.95 to €10.95.

Must be for this but started early.

L1011 · 01-01-2019 4:49pm

theguzman wrote: »

If you want a weekend or midweek break in Ireland it is cheaper to drive or take the train to Belfast than pay a hotel in Dublin.

That would be because there is far less demand in Belfast. Hotels charge what they can get - don't doubt that the Belfast hotelier is charging you ever penny they think they'll get, just as the Dublin one is. Indeed they're often the same hoteliers anyway (Dalata).

pablo128 · 01-01-2019 4:53pm

Oh how they cried poverty, cried and cried till the VAT got lowered. Did they pass it on to the customers? Or their staff? Did they fcuk.

They are getting what they deserve.

abff · 01-01-2019 4:55pm

deezell wrote: »

So lets play 'spot the ripoff' with the new 4.5% hospitality VAT restoration, which in actual terms should show an increase of 4.12% on the price of affected goods. E.g, a €10 snack meal will now cost €10.41. This of course assumes they ever dropped the price to match the vat reduction.
I nominate Macs, who increased the price of a black coffee by 10% in my local. If you allow that they never dropped the price for the vat reduction, it's an increase of 20%. In their defence it has been the same price for ten years.

How does 10% become 20%? If they never dropped the price when the VAT rate was reduced, then they should leave it unchanged when the VAT rate is brought back to the old level. So 10% is 10%.

deezell · 01-01-2019 5:14pm

abff wrote: »

How does 10% become 20%? If they never dropped the price when the VAT rate was reduced, then they should leave it unchanged when the VAT rate is brought back to the old level. So 10% is 10%.

Im slightly off. €2 before vat reduction should have dropped price to about €1.92 when vat went to 9%. New price of 2.20 is about 15% increase on 1.92. We'll split the difference.

Gooser14 · 01-01-2019 5:29pm

The newspaper publishers are at it also. Irish Independent has gone up to Eur 2.20 from Eur 2.00. An increase of 10%. Had they applied the VAT increase only the new price should be Eur 2.09 (rounded up). They also applied the increase before 1st Jan.

abff · 01-01-2019 6:25pm

deezell wrote: »

Im slightly off. €2 before vat reduction should have dropped price to about €1.92 when vat went to 9%. New price of 2.20 is about 15% increase on 1.92. We'll split the difference.

Yes, but the €1.92 would go back up to €2.00 when the VAT rate is changed back to 13.5%, so the 'overcharge' remains at 10%.

Basically, if they didn't reduce prices when the VAT rate was reduced, they effectively increased the amount they were charging by around 5% (pre VAT) and they've now increased it by another 5% (I know it's more like 4% and 6%, but I've rounded the figures for simplicity).

MerlinSouthDub · 01-01-2019 6:28pm

Gooser14 wrote: »

The newspaper publishers are at it also. Irish Independent has gone up to Eur 2.20 from Eur 2.00. An increase of 10%. Had they applied the VAT increase only the new price should be Eur 2.09 (rounded up). They also applied the increase before 1st Jan.

The VAT rate stayed at 9% on newspapers, so the indo's price increase has nothing to do with VAT

California Dreamer · 02-01-2019 11:04am

My local spar increased the price of the standard hot chicken roll by 50c!

deezell · 02-01-2019 11:12am

abff wrote: »

Yes, but the €1.92 would go back up to €2.00 when the VAT rate is changed back to 13.5%, so the 'overcharge' remains at 10%.

Basically, if they didn't reduce prices when the VAT rate was reduced, they effectively increased the amount they were charging by around 5% (pre VAT) and they've now increased it by another 5% (I know it's more like 4% and 6%, but I've rounded the figures for simplicity).

Ah I see, I never said they overcharged by 10%, my OP pointed out that they increased by 10%, when it should have been about 4% Again, as they never applied the vat reduction, It should not have increased AT ALL!, so now the increase is virtually 15% (had they applied the reduction), and the overcharge is in fact 10%. Better stop this, It'll give people a headache.

TheDriver · 02-01-2019 12:02pm

I notice plenty of new menus printed. Some of my locals have increased slightly beyond the 4.1% but to be fair, they are getting menus printed up and haven't increased in years. But there will be plenty using the excuse to hike up prices

GerardKeating · 02-01-2019 12:16pm

deezell wrote: »

Im slightly off. €2 before vat reduction should have dropped price to about €1.92 when vat went to 9%. New price of 2.20 is about 15% increase on 1.92. We'll split the difference.

Are they allowed to include a price increase for the newly raised minumun raise, or must do that increase on another day?

deezell · 02-01-2019 12:28pm

GerardKeating wrote: »

Are they allowed to include a price increase for the newly raised minumun raise, or must do that increase on another day?

They can do what they like, but traders have always sought to disguise price increases behind changes in tax and excise, currency, any excuse. The publicans were masters at it, way back when their pubs were stuffed and there was no competition. Quite the opposite, a publican in a town had to increase in line with all the others or face the wrath of the local vintners rep. Cartels were compulsory!
All that keeps prices down you hope is competition, but hop over to the Frank an Honest thread to see how branding and franchising has become a method of price fixing, whereby a takeout cup of supermarket tea or coffe more than doubled in price at a stroke across virtually every shop.

L1011 · 02-01-2019 1:36pm

GerardKeating wrote: »

Are they allowed to include a price increase for the newly raised minumun raise, or must do that increase on another day?

They can increase prices whenever they like by whatever they like and for whatever reason they like.

tedpan · 02-01-2019 8:07pm

€2 on the pack

Tesco are kind enough to sell them at €3 each or two for €5...

L1011 · 02-01-2019 8:15pm

That wouldn't be affected by the VAT change either.

Grab All Association · 02-01-2019 10:13pm

Before the VAT reduction you could get a sub and a drink in Subway for €4 and this later increased to €4.20 in 2017. They’ve now discontinued this deal claiming this is due to vat increase A sandwich cost €3.80 and a drink is an extra 70c with no refill.

Between 2012-16 Subway availed of slave labour from the Jobbridge scheme. The hospitality/catering sector was one of the biggest users of this scheme despite having got a more than generous tax cut.

L1011 · 02-01-2019 10:14pm

Subway are franchises and have inconsistent prices across the chain. Ditto it was specific franchisers using Jobbridge, not all of them.

Very few chain food outlets are *not* franchises. Some limited few have the same franchiser for all branches in Ireland but even that's rare - think all non service station, non airport Burger Kings are the one company but not even sure about that.

Grab All Association · 02-01-2019 10:21pm

L1011 wrote: »

Subway are franchises and have inconsistent prices across the chain. Ditto it was specific franchisers using Jobbridge, not all of them.

Very few chain food outlets are *not* franchises. Some limited few have the same franchiser for all branches in Ireland but even that's rare - think all non service station, non airport Burger Kings are the one company but not even sure about that.

All Subway franchises are the same price. I’ve visited them in every part of the country. Limerick, Dublin, Cork, Waterford etc. They don’t decide the prices. Nothing to do with the franchisees the price increases/discontinuation of deals.

20/20 · 04-01-2019 4:21am

Apache Pizza The medium reg pizza was €10 each now €11 each.
I think this is the first time I have noticed Vat written twice on the receipt.
The Vat was 13.5% and came in at €2.61.

deezell · 04-01-2019 9:02am

20/20 wrote: »

Apache Pizza The medium reg pizza was €10 each now €11 each.
I think this is the first time I have noticed Vat written twice on the receipt.
The Vat was 13.5% and came in at €2.61.

That should only have increased by 41c, so 59c opportunistic price rise. You just have to read the whining from the owner of a place called 3F who increased his coffee from €3.50 to €3.65, ( yes, thats a 3. Not a 2) because " his net profit is only 26c on a cup". Would he ever 3F off with himself. It's here
https://www.independent.ie/life/food-drink/people-are-already-complaining-customers-react-as-the-price-of-coffee-rises-due-to-vat-increase-37675403.html

duffman13 · 04-01-2019 9:17am

Grab All Association wrote: »

All Subway franchises are the same price. I’ve visited them in every part of the country. Limerick, Dublin, Cork, Waterford etc. They don’t decide the prices. Nothing to do with the franchisees the price increases/discontinuation of deals.

This is not the case, I work all over the country and have paid €10.90 for a meal deal in Rathmines in Dublin as opposed to €8 in Kilkenny. That's just an example from the last two weeks. You've standard pricing on some subs of €6 etc for standard subs but after that is seems to be a charge what you like mantra.

theguzman · 04-01-2019 2:13pm

Grab All Association wrote: »

Before the VAT reduction you could get a sub and a drink in Subway for €4 and this later increased to €4.20 in 2017. They’ve now discontinued this deal claiming this is due to vat increase A sandwich cost €3.80 and a drink is an extra 70c with no refill.

Between 2012-16 Subway availed of slave labour from the Jobbridge scheme. The hospitality/catering sector was one of the biggest users of this scheme despite having got a more than generous tax cut.

The hospitality industry is now exploiting South American (Brazilian mainly) English language students who are here on Student visas. It is one industry that operates totally disgraceful and in tourist areas like Dublin City Centre and places like Killarney they treat staff like dirt.

GerardKeating · 04-01-2019 6:40pm

deezell wrote: »

That should only have increased by 41c, so 59c opportunistic price rise.

Or the 59c is to cover the increase to the minumun wage, and other general cost increaces since they set the old ten euro price

deezell · 04-01-2019 6:57pm

GerardKeating wrote: »

Or the 59c is to cover the increase to the minumun wage, and other general cost increaces since they set the old ten euro price

That was the point of my OP, using a trivial tax increase to disguise a bigger price rise. Traders have always done this. Mantly items in Macs have not increased at all btw, so I'm not particularly criticising long overdue price increases, just the pretence. The govt should have published exact examples, a simple table etc. It's amazing how people anecdotally accept rises of 10-20% as being the vat and the govt's fault.

Heat_Wave · 05-01-2019 10:36pm

My Chinese takeaway tonight cost €20.30. Usually costs €20.

theguzman · 06-01-2019 7:31pm

Heat_Wave wrote: »

My Chinese takeaway tonight cost €20.30. Usually costs €20.

A 1.5% price increase, not even passing on the full VAT hike, other scumbag restaurants would have gone to €22.50 or €25.

ixoy · 08-01-2019 3:48pm

Avoca chicken sandwich went up from €6.95 to €7.95. That's a 14% increase! That and my custom lost.

deezell · 08-01-2019 4:02pm

ixoy wrote: »

Avoca chicken sandwich went up from €6.95 to €7.95. That's a 14% increase! That and my custom lost.

Is that a cold takeaway sandwich? There's no VAT or price increase on cold takeout food. My chicken/bacon/mayo on brown hasn't changed price in Dealz today. €1.50. Thats a full weeks lunch plus 45c change for your Avoca job.

Happy4all · 08-01-2019 4:05pm

ixoy wrote: »

Avoca chicken sandwich went up from €6.95 to €7.95. That's a 14% increase! That and my custom lost.

You were being ripped off at €6.95

Captain Chaos · 08-01-2019 4:07pm

Minimum wage went up .30/hr too. Some places might be trying to pass that on aswell.

L1011 · 08-01-2019 7:30pm

deezell wrote: »

Is that a cold takeaway sandwich? There's no VAT or price increase on cold takeout food. My chicken/bacon/mayo on brown hasn't changed price in Dealz today. €1.50. Thats a full weeks lunch plus 45c change for your Avoca job.

Interesting data-mining task for someone - where is the nearest Dealz to an Avoca :pac:

I'd guess at Dun Laoghaire to Monkstown myself.

Shelflife · 08-01-2019 10:14pm

Businesses wont change their prices for every increase in their costs, many will absorb small increases over the year and then change their prices in one go, changing menu prices every week just isnt feasible.

Jan 1st brought a 4.5% increase in VAT, an increase in wages of 2.6% and a rates increase of 2% all outside of the businesses control and all unavoidable.

The vat increase will also result in higher bank charges as well as there will be more cash (vat not profit) to be banked.

These are just the increases from the Govt, plenty of other increases as well but at least the business can shop around for the other increases.

Its not all price gouging thats going on out there a lot of it is simply passing on Govt increases.

coleslaw · 08-01-2019 10:50pm

L1011 wrote: »

Interesting data-mining task for someone - where is the nearest Dealz to an Avoca :pac:

I'd guess at Dun Laoghaire to Monkstown myself.

Avoca on suffock st, and Dealz on Liffy st,Neither are good examples as they both make millons each year and don't care about the vat increase

deezell · 08-01-2019 11:25pm

The 2.6% increase was for the entry point of the minimum wage. What percentage of a business's staff would be on this bottom rate. Experienced, semi skilled, trades professionals, and all other staff did not receive this meagre rise. They would be paid the market rate. It's simplistic to say the wages bill rose in January by 2.6% unless the entire staff were earning the entry point of the minimum wage.

Shelflife · 08-01-2019 11:34pm

deezell wrote: »

The 2.6% increase was for the entry point of the minimum wage. What percentage of a business's staff would be on this bottom rate. Experienced, semi skilled, trades professionals, and all other staff did not receive this meagre rise. They would be paid the market rate. It's simplistic to say the wages bill rose in January by 2.6% unless the entire staff were earning the entry point of the minimum wage.

True but once the other staff see those on the min wage getting a rise they will be looking for their own increase.

Nothing meager about a 2.6% increase in a labour intensive business when you add it up over a year.

deezell · 08-01-2019 11:57pm

But it would only apply to a fraction of the wage bill unless the business was a complete sweat shop. What fraction of total wages in say, a 100 bedroom hotel, is paid at the lowest min wage entry point. Some but not all of the room service staff, same for restaurant floor and kitchen porter staff, a few casual bar staff and casual function staff maybe. At a guess I'd say less than 25% of staff, and less than 10% of the wage and salary bill, so an increase of 0.26% to the business . The idea that the higher grades would submit a wage claim based on the min wage increase is fantasy.

deezell · 09-01-2019 12:06am

coleslaw wrote: »

Avoca on suffock st, and Dealz on Liffy st,Neither are good examples as they both make millons each year and don't care about the vat increase

Avoca cared enough to use it to mask a 14% price rise on a chicken sambo. I could buy an entire ready roasted bird in Dunnes for that, plus a batch loaf and a few cans of Dutch gold, enough for a family meal, no cooking required.

L1011 · 09-01-2019 8:53am

deezell wrote: »

The idea that the higher grades would submit a wage claim based on the min wage increase is fantasy.

Was done when I worked in BT in the last decade. People wanted to see the differential maintained

There's general wage increases occuring for the first time in about ten years in many (but not all) sectors of the economy now

uck51js9zml2yt · 09-01-2019 8:57am

pablo128 wrote: »

Oh how they cried poverty, cried and cried till the VAT got lowered. Did they pass it on to the customers? Or their staff? Did they fcuk.

They are getting what they deserve.

It's us.....i.e. YOU...paying the increase!!!!

Sure that'll teach them

rubadub · 09-01-2019 12:37pm

Shelflife wrote: »

Businesses wont change their prices for every increase in their costs, many will absorb small increases over the year and then change their prices in one go, changing menu prices every week just isnt feasible.

+1, prices go up for various reasons. You would be an idiot to jack up the price a lot and say it is due to the VAT rise. Everybody has a calculator (phone) on them these days, it is easy to see when a shop is lying. People might not mind a price increase but might leave a shop out of spite it they are being lied to.

deezell wrote: »

Avoca cared enough to use it to mask a 14% price rise on a chicken sambo.

Did avoca actually have a sign up saying the price increases were due to VAT? implying it has only gone up the correct amount it should have?

Tazz T · 09-01-2019 12:58pm

Just noticed the cafe just down from me in Royal Canal Park, Appatizers, has said they will absorb the increase as long as they can. Look after local businesses that look after you. Vote with your feet.

Sultan of Bling · 09-01-2019 1:28pm

Tazz T wrote:

Just noticed the cafe just down from me in Royal Canal Park, Appatizers, has said they will absorb the increase as long as they can. Look after local businesses that look after you. Vote with your feet.

Couldn't agree more. Thet only way to stop this crap is to never darken their doors again.

RacoonQueen · 09-01-2019 11:30pm

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Minimum wage went up .30/hr too. Some places might be trying to pass that on aswell.

i think this is probably the main thing the increases are paying for. I like to go out in the mornings for takeaway cuppa tea...which was already extortionate. However, one place put it up by 20 cent, they use delicious posh tea but I will not be buying regularly anymore. Going to be the odd treat now.
Wage increase for minimum wage workers not worth much to them if all the prices are gone up too. :rolleyes:

timc1 · 09-01-2019 11:33pm

ixoy wrote: »

Avoca chicken sandwich went up from €6.95 to €7.95. That's a 14% increase! That and my custom lost.

I wouldn't be touching Avoca's sandwiches on Suffolk street anyways .....The sister in law bought one last week, brought back to her desk, took one bite and was greeted with a black caterpillar(over one inche)crawling out of it....

deezell · 09-01-2019 11:43pm

RacoonQueen wrote: »

i think this is probably the main thing the increases are paying for. I like to go out in the mornings for takeaway cuppa tea...which was already extortionate. However, one place put it up by 20 cent, they use delicious posh tea but I will not be buying regularly anymore. Going to be the odd treat now.
Wage increase for minimum wage workers not worth much to them if all the prices are gone up too. :rolleyes:

20 cent is the VAT increase on a beverage costing €5 which perhaps you might pay in some 5 star gaff for a cuppa, otherwise it's same old story, add the extra vat, then add once to twice as much again, sure customers are stupid.
Have you ever noticed these places with chalkboard menus, and all sorts of little handwritten sayings about ethos, and balance and provenence and sustainability, and a whole load of other eco/hippy sh1te, then the guy with the ponytail asks you with a straight face for €3 for a cup with hot water and a tiny cheap tea bag in it.

January 1st VAT Increase

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