Boxing Thread 30/10 (Usyk-Chisora, Santa Cruz-Davis, Inoue-Maloney, Munguia-Johnson)

walshb · 01-11-2020 1:11am

Wilder is not massive weight wise, but quite big height and reach and range..

And Usyk is not difficult to hit clean..

He won’t be for Wilder.

EagererBeaver · 01-11-2020 1:12am

DrSpongeBobz wrote: »

Davis Vs. Santa Cruz next then

Too late tonight for me.

DrSpongeBobz · 01-11-2020 1:12am

Usyk did well the ref was allowing a lot in favor of Chisora fight style.

blade1 · 01-11-2020 1:13am

Froch talking sense.
Ha, what's 2020 going to come up with next!

EagererBeaver · 01-11-2020 1:13am

walshb wrote: »

Wilder is not massive weight wise, but quite big height and reach and range..

And Usyk is not difficult to hit clean..

He won’t be for Wilder.

And he can't jab for ****e with all that height and reach.

generalgerry · 01-11-2020 1:14am

walshb wrote: »

Haye and Usyk are nothing alike, though.
Hate could punch quite heavy... Usyk will have to hope that he outpoints the big lads, and avoids their power..

That's true did have a heavy punch alright, which Usyk does not have.

Massive confidence in the guy, wants to be undisputed Heavyweight champ, not just Heavyweight champ. He's an incredible guy.

normanoffside · 01-11-2020 1:14am

Yeah, despite some nice flashes I am done on Usyk as a heavyweight. AJ knocks him out and Fury just simply bullies him.

If you can't dominate Chisora you're not gonna make it unfortunately.

Usyk vs Povetkin or Whyte would be good to watch but we are not talking heavyweight champion here.

Thierry12 · 01-11-2020 1:15am

walshb wrote: »

Haye and Usyk are nothing alike, though.

Hate could punch quite heavy...

Usyk will have to hope that he outpoints the big lads, and avoids their power..

Fury would be far too big.

Wilder hits too hard, and is inches taller..

AJ is bigger all over, and hits quite hard....

Usyk showed nothing tonight other than weakness at HW

Chisora has nothing to offer but effort and spirit..

Yeah doubt his style works against the big 3

He had a good reach advantage against Chisora

He'll be giving up 5 inch + reach advantage to Fury, Joshua, Wilder and 3 inch + height

DrSpongeBobz · 01-11-2020 1:16am

Wilder is 35 his prime is probably over. Should of pushed himself earlier in his career.

walshb · 01-11-2020 1:17am

EagererBeaver wrote: »

And he can't jab for ****e with all that height and reach.

It’s not the jab I think he wins with..

squinn2912 · 01-11-2020 1:17am

I thought that was intriguing I’d echo what’s been said chisora did so well to keep coming for 12 rounds. Not sure how he thought he’d won it. The problem for usyk is that Chisora has been in with some high level hws and has no advantages. Even he had one advantage over Usyk. Chisora is very flat footed for a hw and wasted his 20s being unfit. I’ll be interested to see who his next fight is it’s bound to be a step up and I think that means a ko loss

normanoffside · 01-11-2020 1:17am

Fat fury dominated Delboy and forced him to quit on the stool.

I love Usyk but if he's not able to dominate a 37 year old Chisora then he;s not going to do it.

He should probably go back to cruiserweight.

Coneygree · 01-11-2020 1:18am

Usyk struggles against that type of fighter like Chisora. I wouldn't write him off just yet. At worst he's what, a top 5 HW thereabouts already? He belongs in the division.

Thierry12 · 01-11-2020 1:19am

DrSpongeBobz wrote: »

Wilder is 35 his prime is probably over. Should of pushed himself earlier in his career.

That's what killed Chisora tonight, looked old and slow

6-7 years ago he would have hurt Usyk

normanoffside · 01-11-2020 1:20am

Coneygree wrote: »

Usyk struggles against that type of fighter like Chisora. I wouldn't write him off just yet. At worst he's what, a top 5 HW thereabouts already? He belongs in the division.

He's probably top 5, the problem is that the top 2 or 3 are so far ahead of the rest.

DrSpongeBobz · 01-11-2020 1:22am

Usyk vs Andy Ruiz would be a great fight and then he should be given a shot at AJ or whoever is champ

eagle eye · 01-11-2020 1:23am

Thierry12 wrote:

That's what killed Chisora tonight, looked old and slow

6-7 years ago he would have hurt Usyk

If Chisora was in that shape back then he could have done a lot more.

walshb · 01-11-2020 1:23am

DrSpongeBobz wrote: »

Davis Vs. Santa Cruz next then

Channel 5..

Can’t record. It’s on in Texas, so 5 hours behind. Probably 2.30-3 on here..

Tough to stay up.

Thierry12 · 01-11-2020 1:24am

squinn2912 wrote: »

I thought that was intriguing I’d echo what’s been said chisora did so well to keep coming for 12 rounds. Not sure how he thought he’d won it. The problem for usyk is that Chisora has been in with some high level hws and has no advantages. Even he had one advantage over Usyk. Chisora is very flat footed for a hw and wasted his 20s being unfit. I’ll be interested to see who his next fight is it’s bound to be a step up and I think that means a ko loss

Dubois looks likely

Dangerous fight for Usyk

I'd fancy him only because Dubois might be a bit too young at 23

DrSpongeBobz · 01-11-2020 1:25am

walshb wrote: »

Channel 5..

Can’t record. It’s on in Texas, so 5 hours behind. Probably 2.30-3 on here..

Tough to stay up.

Mass isn't on in the morning you will be alright :P

EagererBeaver · 01-11-2020 1:25am

normanoffside wrote: »

Fat fury dominated Delboy and forced him to quit on the stool.

I love Usyk but if he's not able to dominate a 37 year old Chisora then he;s not going to do it.

He should probably go back to cruiserweight.

There's nothing for Usyk at cruiserweight. He's an absolutely phenomenal boxer who is daring to be great. He might not win it all, or even really feature in the division but he def belongs there and should be applauded for trying.

Coneygree · 01-11-2020 1:26am

normanoffside wrote: »

He's probably top 5, the problem is that the top 2 or 3 are so far ahead of the rest.

Then he's not that far off at all so and no worse than the rest of the bunch who've been there for years. And considering he's just moved up to the division he deserves more time yet to improve. Holyfield had some trouble with lads he was expected to handle with ease and he still did alright as a Heavy if I recall. I genuinely think Usyk gives this version of Joshua a good fight. Pre-Wlad Joshua would batter him though. Fury is too elusive and big, Usyk would struggle to win a round. And I think he's every chance vs Wilder. If anyone can avoid Wilder other than Fury it's Usyk. He showed a good set of whiskers tonight as well.

I'd like him to fight the winner of Povetkin and Whyte.

Thierry12 · 01-11-2020 1:26am

eagle eye wrote: »

If Chisora was in that shape back then he could have done a lot more.

Yeah wasted his best years

Morrison J · 01-11-2020 1:28am

Joshua v Usyk is a very different fight to that tonight. No chance Joshua has the tank to do what Chisora did tonight. Would stand off and jab Usyk giving Usyk much more room to work.

DrSpongeBobz · 01-11-2020 1:29am

Would look great on AJ's record to break Usyk's undefeated streak.One of the best names he could have under him

walshb · 01-11-2020 1:30am

DrSpongeBobz wrote: »

Would look great on AJ's record to break Usyk's undefeated streak.One of the best names he could have under him

Wlad and AP, albeit both past their prime probably better names. Proper tested and proven HWs

walshb · 01-11-2020 1:34am

Am I the only one who can’t warm to Usyk’s style?

His delivery is just too jerky and disjointed.

Nice feet, but just looks all over the place. Slappy type shots and just too uneven or something. It’s a visual thing..lacks smooth fluidity or something .

gypsy79 · 01-11-2020 1:36am

walshb wrote: »

Am I the only one who can’t warm to Usyk’s style?

His delivery is just too jerky and disjointed.

Nice feet, but just looks all over the place. Slappy type shots and just too uneven or something. It’s a visual thing..lacks smooth fluidity or something .

Ge is a great crusier

Poor HW

AJ will wimp out and fight him instead of Tyson

gypsy79 · 01-11-2020 1:38am

normanoffside wrote: »

Fat fury dominated Delboy and forced him to quit on the stool.

I love Usyk but if he's not able to dominate a 37 year old Chisora then he;s not going to do it.

He should probably go back to cruiserweight.

I think you might be right

First fight with Brieidis was massive amongst boxing fans

But no one noticed. Briedis gone from strength to stength

Rematch should be massive but cruisers dont get much attention

Big Ears · 01-11-2020 1:38am

EagererBeaver wrote: »

There's nothing for Usyk at cruiserweight. He's an absolutely phenomenal boxer who is daring to be great. He might not win it all, or even really feature in the division but he def belongs there and should be applauded for trying.

Regardless of how well he ends up doing, there's more money for him at Heavyweight.

One of his title defences at Cruiser was against Michael Hunter, and he's not done too bad since moving up, so we'll so how Usyk does given time.
I wouldn't fancy him against the top 3, but I'd probably have him favourite against anyone else.

The difference in money between Heavyweight and Cruiser is why you have the likes of Alan Babic competing there. It's clear and obvious if he's to go anywhere in the sport he'll need to move down. But in the mean time he'll get far more attention and make far more money knocking out other Cruisers and small Heavyweight at above 200 lbs.

gypsy79 · 01-11-2020 1:40am

Big Ears wrote: »

Regardless of how well he ends up doing, there's more money for him at Heavyweight.

One of his title defences at Cruiser was against Michael Hunter, and he's not done too bad since moving up, so we'll so how Usyk does given time.
I wouldn't fancy him against the top 3, but I'd probably have him favourite against anyone else.

The difference in money between Heavyweight and Cruiser is why you have the likes of Alan Babic competing there. It's clear and obvious if he's to go anywhere in the sport he'll need to move down. But in the mean time he'll get far more attention and make far more money knocking out other Cruisers and small Heavyweight at above 200 lbs.

Agree 100%

We need look at the weight structure of boxing

generalgerry · 01-11-2020 2:10am

One point that is important is that Usyk was never knocking out everybody at Cruiserweight, so why should you expect that he is going to knock everybody out at heavyweight. As he said in the press conference, the elephant is bigger than the lion, but who is the king of the jungle. So I think the question then becomes: given that none of the heavyweight will be able to outbox and outpoint Usyk, who will be able to get to him and knock him out?

walshb · 01-11-2020 2:15am

generalgerry wrote: »

One point that is important is that Usyk was never knocking out everybody at Cruiserweight, so why should you expect that he is going to knock everybody out at heavyweight. As he said in the press conference, the elephant is bigger than the lion, but who is the king of the jungle. So I think the question then becomes: given that none of the heavyweight will be able to outbox and outpoint Usyk, who will be able to get to him and knock him out?

I think it’s a huge stretch to think that Fury or AJ could not outbox him or stop him..

FFS, a wild, plodding, lunging, sloth like Chisora gave him awful trouble tonight, and arguably won 4-5 rounds in there...

I’ll say it again: Chisora is fooking sh1t.

DrSpongeBobz · 01-11-2020 2:18am

Fury and Aj have looked like average fighters too at times and struggled against fighters way below their supposed level

eagle eye · 01-11-2020 2:20am

Big Ears wrote:

Regardless of how well he ends up doing, there's more money for him at Heavyweight.

Yeah for sure, he can set himself up for life fighting at heavyweight. His next payday should be a good one after that exposure.

walshb · 01-11-2020 2:36am

Isaac Cruz blasted Diego Magdalena out in 50 seconds at
LW. Impressive punching.

Another IBF eliminator..

normanoffside · 01-11-2020 2:36am

walshb wrote: »

I think it’s a huge stretch to think that Fury or AJ could not outbox him or stop him..

FFS, a wild, plodding, lunging, sloth like Chisora gave him awful trouble tonight, and arguably won 4-5 rounds in there...

I’ll say it again: Chisora is fooking sh1t.

Fury would rag doll him and win every round. Disappointed in his display tonight but I think that’s his limit.

selectamatic · 01-11-2020 2:46am

Morrison J wrote: »

Joshua v Usyk is a very different fight to that tonight. No chance Joshua has the tank to do what Chisora did tonight. Would stand off and jab Usyk giving Usyk much more room to work.

That is an outrageous statement to make to be honest Morrison.

How you can honestly believe AJ doesn't have a far far superior gas tank to chisora is beyond me considering you're such a knowledgeable poster.

Joshua adrenaline dumped against wlad recuperated and got the KO. He was pinged by Ruiz and never fully got his legs under him there after and that's been it.

Every other fight he's seen it out to whatever end comfortably. 12rds against Parker, danced for 12 against a fat Ruiz, no bother chasing the pretty durable Takam for 10rds and growing hugely into the second half of the whyte fight to absolutely bang him out in the 7th.

There's no comparison.

walshb · 01-11-2020 2:48am

Even forgetting gas tanks...

FFS, guys. Chisora was muck tonight. He had nothing but effort and spirit...

AJ has far far more tools and capability than a shot to bits, never remotely good to begin with, Chisora..

No idea why AJ would stand off Usyk and just jab?

normanoffside · 01-11-2020 2:56am

walshb wrote: »

Even forgetting gas tanks...

FFS, guys. Chisora was muck tonight. He had nothing but effort and spirit...

AJ has far far more tools and capability than a shot to bits, never remotely good to begin with, Chisora..

No idea why AJ would stand off Usyk and just jab?

AJ would just hammer Usyk as he has nothing to fear. fury the same, fury would physically rough him up too.

I see Usyk having a chance against Whyte and povetkin but if he can’t dominate a Chisora he has no chance against the top guys.

Morrison J · 01-11-2020 3:01am

selectamatic wrote: »

That is an outrageous statement to make to be honest Morrison.

How you can honestly believe AJ doesn't have a far far superior gas tank to chisora is beyond me considering you're such a knowledgeable poster.

Joshua adrenaline dumped against wlad recuperated and got the KO. He was pinged by Ruiz and never fully got his legs under him there after and that's been it.

Every other fight he's seen it out to whatever end comfortably. 12rds against Parker, danced for 12 against a fat Ruiz, no bother chasing the pretty durable Takam for 10rds and growing hugely into the second half of the whyte fight to absolutely bang him out in the 7th.

There's no comparison.

You think Joshua would be able to set a pace like Chisora did tonight and last 12?

The Parker/Ruiz II/Takam fights were not fought at a high pace. He didn't remotely push the limits of his tank in those fights. Controlled them with his jab and plenty of holding in the inside.

Two fights where Joshua went relatively gun-ho and didn't get his opponent out in early were Wlad and Ruiz I. He gassed pretty badly in both.

Chisora when in shape has a decent tank. Tonight and both Whyte fights being good examples of that. Fights fought at a very high pace.

I don't see whats outrageous about my comment tbh. Obviously Joshua is levels above Chisora in most categories but gas tank wise I haven't seen it.

Man with broke phone · 01-11-2020 3:02am

I think thats the height of Usyks heavyweight career, he doesnt go any further.

Morrison J · 01-11-2020 3:05am

walshb wrote: »

Even forgetting gas tanks...

FFS, guys. Chisora was muck tonight. He had nothing but effort and spirit...

AJ has far far more tools and capability than a shot to bits, never remotely good to begin with, Chisora..

No idea why AJ would stand off Usyk and just jab?

AJ has stood off Ruiz, Takam, Parker etc. His style isn't to literally "stick it on" on his opponent like Chisora tried to do tonight.

Usyk v Joshua is a very different fight stylistically, thats all I'm saying here.

selectamatic · 01-11-2020 3:11am

Morrison J wrote: »

You think Joshua would be able to set a pace like Chisora did tonight and last 12?

Yes.

Easily.

Chisora swung well for the first 2 rds. He came on again after the 4th. He looked completely fecked in the 7th and 8th and then got a bit of a second wind towards the end and did precious little with it.

AJ is 6ft6" with a long reach and a very good jab of course this is going to be used in his fights, he's still well able to stalk an opponent for 12rds while jabbing.

walshb · 01-11-2020 3:12am

Morrison J wrote: »

AJ has stood off Ruiz, Takam, Parker etc. His style isn't to literally "stick it on" on his opponent like Chisora tried to do tonight.

Usyk v Joshua is a very different fight stylistically, thats all I'm saying here.

It is a different fight.

AJ should find it easy to land hard and clean for a KO

Bigger and more powerful everywhere...

Longer reach, harder jab, harder every punch. Usyk will get hit, hit early and will be taken out...

walshb · 01-11-2020 3:16am

Can’t stay up for this..

Tank be in the ring by 3 or so..

Hope don’t miss a classic here, and hope YouTube have it later..

Morrison J · 01-11-2020 3:26am

selectamatic wrote: »

Yes.

Easily.

Chisora swung well for the first 2 rds. He came on again after the 4th. He looked completely fecked in the 7th and 8th and then got a bit of a second wind towards the end and did precious little with it.

AJ is 6ft6" with a long reach and a very good jab of course this is going to be used in his fights, he's still well able to stalk an opponent for 12rds while jabbing.

I really haven't seen any evidence at all to prove he can set that sort of pace but fair enough!

selectamatic · 01-11-2020 3:29am

Morrison J wrote: »

I really haven't seen any evidence at all to prove he can set that sort of pace but fair enough!

I completely agree it's a different fight.

But I do feel you're overstating chisora's gas tank greatly.

Morrison J · 01-11-2020 3:32am

selectamatic wrote: »

I completely agree it's a different fight.

But I do feel you're overstating chisora's gas tank greatly.

Not sure I even rate Chisora's gas tank that much although I do think it's decent when he's in shape. I more think Joshua's gas tank is probably his biggest weakness and guaranteed to rear its head again when he fights an elite opponent who doesn't let him control the pace of the fight.

Diddley Squat · 01-11-2020 3:32am

c'mon Leo

he's going to force Davis to fight at a faster pace

Leo bu KO round 9-12

Boxing Thread 30/10 (Usyk-Chisora, Santa Cruz-Davis, Inoue-Maloney, Munguia-Johnson)

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