MGTOW = “men going their own way”

ancapailldorcha · 03-09-2020 11:35am

Wibbs wrote: »

And youth too. If that mate of mine I mentioned could get a date and likely something more if he was single and in his 50's why couldn't you?

I appreciate that much of what follows is going to come across as making excuses or self-indulgent but feck it.

I had to move about a fair bit in my twenties so the dating thing was just never that much of a priority for me then. Towards the end, I’d read a few of TaxAHcruel’s posts about self-improvement which I only seriously made any sort of progress in in the last few years. Something about the whole “30” milestone meant I was a lot more relaxed in my attitude to certain things and dating was one of them. I’m eating better, trying to get out for walks more and my gym is open so I can do that as well as there’s one near the house.

I’m also an introvert and my hobbies are almost exclusively solitary. If your mate’s an extrovert, I think that hands him an advantage. If I were huge into my music and attending niche gigs in the city, I think I would get an advantage from that as well. But as I said, they’re pretty much solitary pursuits like gaming, the cinema, hiking and so on. I do go to a few meetups but they’ve been nuked by the current Coronavirus situation.

The other thing is that dating, for me at least, seems to revolve heavily around the reading of cues and the taking of hints. Like anything, this is a skill which takes practice to master.

Finally, I just don’t meet that many women I’m interested in spending a lot of time with. When I was younger, I’d have gone out with anyone but I don’t think I’ve asked anyone out now for several years. A lot more people on both sides tend to be coupled up by 30 as well. I think there are a few single girls at work I might have a shot with but it’s a university and one has to be careful there. Was working up the nerve one day to ask a visiting researcher out and I bottled it. C’est la vie.

Wibbs · 03-09-2020 12:13pm

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Are you sure about that? I thought it was 50% of marriages in the last 10 years fail in the US?

It hit a peak in the 80's of around 50% over a lifetime, but has been steadily dropping since. It also depends on the demographic. University educated people are much less likely to divorce(IIRC it's in the 20% range). They also tend to marry later which also strongly influences the rate of divorce. Younger marriages make it much more likely and Americans marry at younger ages than Irish people. A trend which has been long with us. 40 years ago Ireland had the highest age for marriage in the world. I'd not be surprised to find it's still near the top today. Depends on ethnic, religious and even geographical location, so in the square states of the Us divorce is rarer. Even so their dating and mating culture is not applicable to here on a few levels.

Wibbs · 03-09-2020 12:31pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I’m also an introvert and my hobbies are almost exclusively solitary. If your mate’s an extrovert, I think that hands him an advantage.

Actually thinking about it he's not an extrovert. He'd be quite introverted though at the milder end. I suppose he'd be average. He'd be an introvert compared to me that's for sure. On the social cues angle he's actually pretty hopeless, though got much better over time. Though maybe that stood to him too as he was more likely to plough on during interactions with women, so was more likely to find someone who was interested. Without getting creepy though. He was never creepy.

The other thing is that dating, for me at least, seems to revolve heavily around the reading of cues and the taking of hints. Like anything, this is a skill which takes practice to master.

This is a biggie alright and IMHO anyway it's both an inherited thing and a practised one. My dad would put the talk on anyone, my mum was very much the opposite. A social phobic if anything(who would occasionally give him static over his gregariousness actually).

I was quite bashful as a child, but made an active decision when I was 14(I remember the exact moment) to make an effort and so I did and took to it easily enough after a fair few cringe moments. Then again at 14 you're allowed nay expected to be gauche and awkward in a way that's endearing at that age, that is "weird" and "odd" even off putting at say 30. Plus in your teens you're surrounded by equally awkward people, boys and girls.

I have found that Women(tm) in a dating attraction mindset are generally much less accommodating of social awkwardness in men than the other way around. Indeed a bashful woman is often seen as more attractive to many men than an extroverted one. Even the introverted women I know tended to go for more extroverted men. Not always, but generally. Maybe it's an instinctive thing? That a socially adept man is a) more generally liked at least on the surface and being widely socially liked is a big draw and b) because he's more clued into social cues is safer and easier to be around. This might explain why women's sexual "hints" are much more subtle than mens(though if you learn to read them they're very obvious, sometimes more obvious than men, who tend towards a scattergun approach at anyone with boobs). It's a way to weed out the non socially aware? This is much less of a concern for men. Men don't tend to give much of a thought to how safe a woman is to them, on the physical level anyway.

Sn@kebite · 03-09-2020 3:00pm

Errashareesh wrote: »

Crikey I don't think most people think that! I know there is some degree of it but a general unspoken consensus? And that a man is a lucky ****er for her to condescend to settling for him? Yaysus!

And also, in the cases of that happening, I think how much men propagate it should be taken into consideration too. I mean, in a thread about a scummy couple who attacked a man in Australia, if you saw the amount of "She's hot though".

I do think this but I'll concede it's concentrated into daytime TV such as sitcoms and adverts where the useless husband or the idiot dad who can't do anything right while the woman is always hardworking and struggling after marrying such a loser. It's become fashionable in the last 2 decades or so for a woman to cut her man down as "my husband would never survive without me" or "men are useless" this has definitely been introduced into this toxic feminist narrative.

If you look at sociology feminist lecturers or even a TED talk feminist in her 20s it's loaded with this type of thing; white women acting like they are paragons of morality. It's all part of woke culture.

03-09-2020 8:15pm

To jump on the self-indulgent bandwagon... :pac:

I've had 5 chances ever from internet dating to go on a date. I've gone on all of them. Including one with someone who was badly disfigured who seemed nice online. Not so much in person. At the age of 32 I think it might be fair enough of me to think that maybe living in a place on my own, having a car, well-paying job, all that stuff doesn't matter so much when you're not a good looking guy. It's almost like looks are the most important thing. :pac:
Also I've asked out a few girls in person. Mostly got no's, got one yes that obviously didn't follow up. Female friends are like "that's so great that you're able to do that" to which I reply "Why? What benefit has it brought to me?".
I made a point to a friend about something (don't want to be too specific because it'd be easily identifiable) but I made the point that even in joking terms I don't even register with women and got "Yeah but that's because they don't see you as a joke". Again, so what? And how many times have I seen women I know get with guys they said they never would for many reasons and relationships often come out of it. But hey, I get "respect" and sit on my own every single night of my life.

FintanMcluskey · 03-09-2020 10:20pm

Deleted User wrote: »

To jump on the self-indulgent bandwagon... :pac:

I've had 5 chances ever from internet dating to go on a date. I've gone on all of them. Including one with someone who was badly disfigured who seemed nice online. Not so much in person. At the age of 32 I think it might be fair enough of me to think that maybe living in a place on my own, having a car, well-paying job, all that stuff doesn't matter so much when you're not a good looking guy. It's almost like looks are the most important thing. :pac:
Also I've asked out a few girls in person. Mostly got no's, got one yes that obviously didn't follow up. Female friends are like "that's so great that you're able to do that" to which I reply "Why? What benefit has it brought to me?".
I made a point to a friend about something (don't want to be too specific because it'd be easily identifiable) but I made the point that even in joking terms I don't even register with women and got "Yeah but that's because they don't see you as a joke". Again, so what? And how many times have I seen women I know get with guys they said they never would for many reasons and relationships often come out of it. But hey, I get "respect" and sit on my own every single night of my life.

You asking out women your own age?

03-09-2020 11:14pm

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

You asking out women your own age?

Mostly, sometimes younger.

04-09-2020 2:40am

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Hi, could you please elaborate on this?

When I first read your initial post I assumed that you may have had 2 partners which ran consecutively? But from this post you are insinuating that your partners are simultaneous and even "together". Are you saying they are lovers also?

Yes - we are an going "truple" household. 4 relationships I guess if you think about it.

Wibbs · 04-09-2020 8:23am

Sn@kebite wrote: »

I do think this but I'll concede it's concentrated into daytime TV such as sitcoms and adverts where the useless husband or the idiot dad who can't do anything right while the woman is always hardworking and struggling after marrying such a loser. It's become fashionable in the last 2 decades or so for a woman to cut her man down as "my husband would never survive without me" or "men are useless" this has definitely been introduced into this toxic feminist narrative.

Actually that's long been a TV trope. Many decades in fact, at least in US media, but not restricted to there. Hell, look at the Flintstones cartoon that first came out in 1960 and Fred is the lovable dope and his missus Wilma is the bright one. Another cartoon the Simpsons runs with a similar theme. Actually I can't think of any sitcom from anywhere going way back to the start of TV that didn't follow this theme.

IAMAMORON · 04-09-2020 10:21am

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes - we are an going "truple" household. 4 relationships I guess if you think about it.

Remarkable stuff. You should get Louis Theroux to follow the 3 of ye around for a month.

I hope you make them share a car at least?

I can only imagine the fights at dinnertime... over who is on the spuds?

FintanMcluskey · 04-09-2020 11:05am

Deleted User wrote: »

Mostly, sometimes younger.

I would imagine ladies in their mid 20s would find a guy in his early 30's with his **** together attractive.

A few years gap is always advisable, men can be immature

tjhook · 07-09-2020 12:02pm

Hi all, my first post to the "Gentlemen's Club"

I'm all paired up. But if I found myself single (for any of the many reasons this could happen - many might not result from a choice of mine and some might be things the universe just throws at us), I don't think I'd be pushed about being in another relationship. I have friends, work, hobbies, a decent standard of living. At that stage, I'm not sure a life partner would bring something significant to *my* life.

I suppose it could be termed "going my own way". But it's so self-limiting to stick a label on oneself. If I did find myself trapped in an elevator with the most amazing woman who thought the same of me, I wouldn't rule out something developing. I wouldn't pull a "MGTOW" membership card out of my pocket for protection.

I can completely understand a guy going his own way. I just don't understand the need for him to use a label to constrain what his future may hold.

Feisar · 07-09-2020 12:45pm

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I would imagine ladies in their mid 20s would find a guy in his early 30's with his **** together attractive.

A few years gap is always advisable, men can be immature

I was last on tinder at 30 and had 18 year olds on my case. What does be wrong with people!

07-09-2020 12:54pm

Feisar wrote: »

I was last on tinder at 30 and had 18 year olds on my case. What does be wrong with people!

You think there's something wrong with an 18-year-old for fancying a 30-year-old guy?

Feisar · 07-09-2020 12:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

You think there's something wrong with an 18-year-old for fancying a 30-year-old guy?

I thought it unusual anyway.

iptba · 07-09-2020 12:58pm

tjhook wrote: »

Hi all, my first post to the "Gentlemen's Club"

I'm all paired up. But if I found myself single (for any of the many reasons this could happen - many might not result from a choice of mine and some might be things the universe just throws at us), I don't think I'd be pushed about being in another relationship. I have friends, work, hobbies, a decent standard of living. At that stage, I'm not sure a life partner would bring something significant to *my* life.

I suppose it could be termed "going my own way". But it's so self-limiting to stick a label on oneself. If I did find myself trapped in an elevator with the most amazing woman who thought the same of me, I wouldn't rule out something developing. I wouldn't pull a "MGTOW" membership card out of my pocket for protection.

I can completely understand a guy going his own way. I just don't understand the need for him to use a label to constrain what his future may hold.

I think the reason or part of the reason for having a specific movement or term is people are hoping it will change the responsibilities sometimes/often placed on one partner when a relationship breaks up. It may be more relevant in some jurisdictions than others, though in Ireland with the Civil Partnership and Cohabitation Bill (or whatever the exact title is), responsibilities can be placed on partners even if they never married, never entered a civil partnership or even don’t have children together which doesn’t happen in many if not most countries as I understand it.

IAMAMORON · 07-09-2020 12:58pm

Feisar wrote: »

I was last on tinder at 30 and had 18 year olds on my case. What does be wrong with people!

I find 18 year old girls might look attractive but are always atrocious in the sack, they haven't a clue what is going on.

I also find that anyone gloating about nailing lots of young attractive pussy, especially online, is invariably full of chrap.

At 30 the youngest birds you should be pulling are 22 yr olds, following the half your age plus seven years formula. 30/15+7 =22. At 30 your horizons should be broadening beyond pretending to nail 18 year olds, even on an internet forum. That reeks of immaturity all things considered. Try not to cry wolf is my best advice.

Feisar · 07-09-2020 1:04pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

I find 18 year old girls might look attractive but are always atrocious in the sack, they haven't a clue what is going on.

I also find that anyone gloating about nailing lots of young attractive pussy, especially online, is invariably full of chrap.

At 30 the youngest birds you should be pulling are 22 yr olds, following the half your age plus seven years formula. 30/15+7 =22. At 30 your horizons should be broadening beyond pretending to nail 18 year olds, even on an internet forum. That reeks of immaturity all things considered. Try not to cry wolf is my best advice.

Um I wasn't gloating about anything however you seem to have a wealth of experience! By the by it takes two to tango

I'm now married with a kid so 30 is a while back.

Feisar · 07-09-2020 1:48pm

Anyway...

I thought MGTOW was a lock of Japanese lads withdrawing from society to avoid the "salaryman" trap. However it seems to be a grouping that think feminism is/has ruined society. Where does this feminism hang out, I only ever come across it on the internet? As Wibbs said are we importing a load of crap from the US that will only start bleeding into the mainstream here over the next while? To me it all seems a bit incel ish. I doubt there are many tall attractive successful men heading up this outfit.

FintanMcluskey · 07-09-2020 2:05pm

Feisar wrote: »

Anyway...

I thought MGTOW was a lock of Japanese lads withdrawing from society to avoid the "salaryman" trap. However it seems to be a grouping that think feminism is/has ruined society. Where does this feminism hang out, I only ever come across it on the internet? As Wibbs said are we importing a load of crap from the US that will only start bleeding into the mainstream here over the next while? To me it all seems a bit incel ish. I doubt there are many tall attractive successful men heading up this outfit.

Personally I think MGTOW stems from the high divorce rate and lack of fairness towards men in divorce cases subsequently.

In the UK 60% of opposite sex marriages are expected to end in divorce before the 20th wedding anniversary.

The marriages that end in divorce are unhappy/dissatisfied, whats more alarming is a lot of the ones that don't end in divorce are just as unhappy/dissatisfied but stay together for the kids/mortgage etc.

Feisar · 07-09-2020 2:14pm

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Personally I think MGTOW stems from the high divorce rate and lack of fairness towards men in divorce cases subsequently.

In the UK 60% of opposite sex marriages are expected to end in divorce before the 20th wedding anniversary.

The marriages that end in divorce are unhappy/dissatisfied, whats more alarming is a lot of the ones that don't end in divorce are just as unhappy/dissatisfied but stay together for the kids/mortgage etc.

Yea while I don't see any adverse effects of feminism at the moment what could change if I'm out on my ear.
I don't think we are programmed for 20/40/50 year pairings however that's not women's fault in fairness. Evolution hasn't caught up with the trappings of modern life.

IAMAMORON · 07-09-2020 2:14pm

Feisar wrote: »

Anyway...

I thought MGTOW was a lock of Japanese lads withdrawing from society to avoid the "salaryman" trap. However it seems to be a grouping that think feminism is/has ruined society. Where does this feminism hang out, I only ever come across it on the internet? As Wibbs said are we importing a load of crap from the US that will only start bleeding into the mainstream here over the next while? To me it all seems a bit incel ish. I doubt there are many tall attractive successful men heading up this outfit.

Definitely both an American and an internet phenomenon. However there are plenty of instances of "race cel " occurring in more multicultural societies. Seemingly the race of choice for women globally are white Aryan males over six foot who have a good body, treat them like crap and have large penises. For 2nd or 3rd generation Asians this can be infuriating. There are instances also in the states of inverse racial prejudices. For example black women will tend to not chase white males, unless they are really attractive and furthermore become infuriated when black males opt to copulate with white females.

Essentially the reason for MgTow developing globally has been accelerated by the internet. It has helped and enabled plenty of men who are unsuccessful with women to make more positive choices about their future. The fact remains that women are the owners of natural selection and as it stands only 20% of the global population are getting selected. Regrettably the other 80% still get ridiculed, they are in a no win scenario. A previous poster nailed it succinctly, if a male tries he gets ridiculed for not being good enough, if he doesn't try he is shamed for being an opt out or coward. The real crank women have about MGTOW is that they have no control over it, they obviously don't like that.

ancapailldorcha · 07-09-2020 2:25pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Essentially the reason for MgTow developing globally has been accelerated by the internet. It has helped and enabled plenty of men who are unsuccessful with women to make more positive choices about their future. The fact remains that women are the owners of natural selection and as it stands only 20% of the global population are getting selected. Regrettably the other 80% still get ridiculed, they are in a no win scenario. A previous poster nailed it succinctly, if a male tries he gets ridiculed for not being good enough, if he doesn't try he is shamed for being an opt out or coward. The real crank women have about MGTOW is that they have no control over it, they obviously don't like that.

I don't think it's enabled anything. I think that some men are realising that they can make positive choices for themselves, their bodies and their mental health and can have a sense of self-worth that has nothing to finding a partner.

I don't think MGTOW has spread at all. Most people haven't heard of it as far as I can tell.

IAMAMORON · 07-09-2020 2:38pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I don't think it's enabled anything. I think that some men are realising that they can make positive choices for themselves, their bodies and their mental health and can have a sense of self-worth that has nothing to finding a partner.

I don't think MGTOW has spread at all. Most people haven't heard of it as far as I can tell.

Maybe enabled may not be a good choice of word, how about "empowered".

I do think it is spreading though, more and more men are shrugging their shoulders and realising that there is more to life than crying into their pillows at night over birds that were never ever in their league in the first place.

It is a lot more appealing these days for men to blow their wealth on international travel or a nice car... as opposed to maintenance payments on children who they only see twice a fortnight and are losing a bond with daily.

In fact, the more that young men are educated and made aware of the current pitfalls of chasing potentially fickle partners over a cliff, the better. There is more to life than an unhappy marriage and kids, much more.

Richard Hillman · 07-09-2020 2:43pm

I dont think people and their followers that you would see on specific forums, blogs/blogs and like are really going their own way. They are just following a set of guidelines being created by others.

A real MGTOW, just removes himself from perusing any sort of romantic activity. If you are in the company of single ladies, you treat them as you would your male friends (although you'd probably have to tone it down a bit :pac: )

The artificial MGTOW that you see on forums, Vlogs etc are yurning for that moment of turning a woman down. They essentially have not left the race. They just happened to turn their car around and are driving around the track backwards, crashing into people. A real MGTOW left the track ages ago. Didn't make a fuss. Is sitting at home doing his own thing whilst the others are still at the race track killing each other.

FintanMcluskey · 07-09-2020 2:51pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

In fact, the more that young men are educated and made aware of the current pitfalls of chasing potentially fickle partners over a cliff, the better. There is more to life than an unhappy marriage and kids, much more.

Exactly.

So many men sleepwalk into marriages and only wake up when its too late. And I've seen that happen so often over the last 15-20 years.

But you must live the life of a singleton to the fullest, travel, hobbies, learn an instrument, become a great dancer, do more than nothing.

ancapailldorcha · 07-09-2020 2:54pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Maybe enabled may not be a good choice of word, how about "empowered".

I do think it is spreading though, more and more men are shrugging their shoulders and realising that there is more to life than crying into their pillows at night over birds that were never ever in their league in the first place.

It is a lot more appealing these days for men to blow their wealth on international travel or a nice car... as opposed to maintenance payments on children who they only see twice a fortnight and are losing a bond with daily.

In fact, the more that young men are educated and made aware of the current pitfalls of chasing potentially fickle partners over a cliff, the better. There is more to life than an unhappy marriage and kids, much more.

I would again disagree. I doubt most people have heard of MGTOW and modern trends tend to be towards eating healthier and having experiences instead of bingeing and buying stuff.

IAMAMORON · 07-09-2020 2:57pm

You are touching on different "pills" there Mr Hillman.

But I see where you are coming from, there are some quite vindictive advocates of MGTOW online, they seem unsatisfied with enforcing their option and are more focused on revenge against women who have not chosen them. Distasteful all things considered.

Either get in the fight or get off the battlefield would be my opinion here. Just by turning your back on the chase should not allow you to begrudge anyone, male or female, who are still involved on the mating game.

IAMAMORON · 07-09-2020 3:05pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I would again disagree. I doubt most people have heard of MGTOW and modern trends tend to be towards eating healthier and having experiences instead of bingeing and buying stuff.

We are dwelling on prerogatives here?

MGTOW is about having the option to chose as opposed to forfeiting the freedom of the option via including romance prospects or a partner with your decision making process?

iptba · 07-09-2020 3:32pm

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Exactly.

So many men sleepwalk into marriages and only wake up when its too late. And I've seen that happen so often over the last 15-20 years.

But you must live the life of a singleton to the fullest, travel, hobbies, learn an instrument, become a great dancer, do more than nothing.

I think people should do what makes them happy. Certainly being indoors all the time is not likely to be healthy but I don’t think should be shamed for enjoying sports (or whatever) on TV or playing computer games, say.

If people always wanted to become a great dancer or learn an instrument, go for it; the former doesn’t appeal to me and I found the latter became a chore.

Feisar · 07-09-2020 4:14pm

What do these lads do for the ride?

IAMAMORON · 07-09-2020 4:24pm

Feisar wrote: »

What do these lads do for the ride?

It all depends Feisballs.

But let's be frank "the ride" is not all that difficult to get when you put your mind to it.

FintanMcluskey · 07-09-2020 4:47pm

Feisar wrote: »

What do these lads do for the ride?

Are you talking about men married a few years and getting the ride once every six month's if fortune allows?

If I can give anyone any advice its dump the attitude above which suggests marriage is a ticket to regular sex.

It causes a lot of disappointment

Feisar · 07-09-2020 4:49pm

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Are you talking about men married a few years and getting the ride once every six month's if fortune allows?

If I can give anyone any advice its dump the attitude above which suggests marriage is a ticket to regular sex.

It causes a lot of disappointment

No I was referring to these lads that go out of their way to exclude women from their lives.

FintanMcluskey · 07-09-2020 4:52pm

Feisar wrote: »

No I was referring to these lads that go out of their way to exclude women from their lives.

I was being sarcastic.:pac:

Feisar · 07-09-2020 4:53pm

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I was being sarcastic.:pac:

Woops! So clear now!

FintanMcluskey · 07-09-2020 4:57pm

Feisar wrote: »

Woops! So clear now!

They don't exclude women I think, they treat them as friends but don't enter romantic relationships.

Sex is just as accessible for them as in any marriage

Dickie10 · 08-09-2020 10:51pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Not all women, but yeah remarkably common to see alright. Less in play when younger but by 30 it changes up a gear. I've long considered it to be a domestication process of sorts and I would reckon it's something built into our species going way back and actually what made modern humans different to previous ones, but that's a subject for another day.

Find a guy that's "fixable", domesticatable for the want of a better word and mould him into suburban husband and father material. As I noted with some tongue in cheek action in another thread on here ages ago: Now the wild oats were sown, the draw to the burbs hit like salmon mindlessly rushing upstream to the rivulet of their birth and they were looking for the domesticated kind of cereal. A man of a type that would pass muster among her peers, who would look fine in FaceBook photos of their all pine and promise scandi kitchen on tick, but would slowly go out of focus over time, to be replaced in the foreground by pics of her kids.

I have seen that play out so many times. The courtship can be rushed if it's in the thirties, quite often the woman will pull some crazy moments to see if A) he can take it and will chase her to make sure he's doing things right. Then it's mortgages and brunch after wandering around aimlessly in Ikea being asked for a foregone opinion on light fixtures that if you gave your actual opinion would result in the silent treatment. I've noted the men are generally content enough with this arrangement, with the usual occasional bitching about The Missus and all that, but it has no weight behind it. They're quite terrified of being left(well if you look at cultures where divorce is more common and easy it's overwhelmingly the woman who asks for them). The women (and a couple have been mates of mine) are happy enough with the domesticity and kids, but the Dear Husband is usually in the background. The fun seems to be in the taming maybe?

I dunno, but not for me. Maybe, actually no maybe about it, when I was in my 20's I'd have probably locked into the above situation easily enough. Well I couldn't get arrested in my 20's, or completely missed hints, so would have likely considered myself "so lucky" or some nonsense, but my 30's were very different on that score and I had both relationships; bad and good, and fun; bad and good.

Being 100% honest here? Caveat: the chances are very high I was selecting for a particular personality type so this is no way a reflection on the general experience. But yeah being honest after a while I found "proper" longer term relationships quite hard work. In the sense of being always on. There was always something that needed doing, or fixing. Not relaxing at all. I have found *generalisation alert again* women never bloody relax for very long and don't like men on idle time about the place. EG if you've been working like a galley slave for weeks or whatever and you get the "oh you look tired and worn out of late you should relax at the weekend" I could nearly guarantee that will last about maybe a few hours of you doing nothing of a Saturday before something will need your attention.

Then if you have kids... Kids naturally need a lot of your attention and there's always something going on, both good and bad, thankfully mostly good it seems, but you're generally always on the clock as it were.

TL;DR? After my years of generally putting it about and relationships of different sorts I increasingly found myself not being too pushed TBH. Friends with benefits and other mates in general is a lot easier of a life, at least for me anyway.

you sound soooo like me its unbeliveable

worded · 09-09-2020 1:43am

After marriage ....

Women want men to change but they don’t

Men hope women won’t change, but they do

worded · 09-09-2020 1:47am

Dickie10 wrote: »

you sound soooo like me its unbeliveable

+ 1

A trip to IKEA and some people watching is sobering.

tylercheribini · 09-09-2020 12:45pm

The archaic institution of marriage is entirely incompatible with modern, western society. Especially in this country, it was entwined with religion which is in rapid decline, no coincidence then that people that see out the full tour of marriage are generally from generations born in that holy, Catholic Ireland.

Feisar · 09-09-2020 1:12pm

worded wrote: »

After marriage ....

Women want men to change but they don’t

Men hope women won’t change, but they do

I've a friend that keeps telling me leopards don't change their spots.

IAMAMORON · 09-09-2020 2:10pm

tylercheribini wrote: »

The archaic institution of marriage is entirely incompatible with modern, western society. Especially in this country, it was entwined with religion which is in rapid decline, no coincidence then that people that see out the full tour of marriage are generally from generations born in that holy, Catholic Ireland.

For a lot of modern women it is no more than a day out and an aspirational box ticked. Spending weeks organising and a lifetime of dreaming over some phucking white dress they are hoping to get nods of approval from their female peers over. Boasting over a honeymoon somewhere exotic, there are no virgins these days either.

Lots and lots of women blowing the whistle after they have dropped their sprog quota also, not nice. Time for Daddy to hit the bedsit, bye bye.

The vows are simply no longer respected.

FintanMcluskey · 09-09-2020 4:14pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

For a lot of modern women it is no more than a day out and an aspirational box ticked. Spending weeks organising and a lifetime of dreaming over some phucking white dress they are hoping to get nods of approval from their female peers over. Boasting over a honeymoon somewhere exotic, there are no virgins these days either.

There is a huge difference between a wedding and a marriage, and a house and a home.

The former of each will be found on Instagram.

The wedding dress point is interesting, wearing white and what it represents is about as relevant in this day and age as myself turning up fully togged at the church in the Galway hurling kit

IAMAMORON · 09-09-2020 7:15pm

FACE IT wrote: »

What it all comes down to, and what no one wants to acknowledge, is your looks.

No amount of personality, or confidence or charm can fix a bad face. No exercise can give you a stronger jaw. If you have a bad face, like me, then it's over.

FACE IT wrote: »

I mean, do you seriously think the reason you get no results on Tinder is because your bio is not 'well crafted'?...come on!

Not necessarily true. Women do like handsome and attractive men, but there are bigger motivators to their sexual selection and finding a partner. The biggest of those is POWER which basically turns into MONEY in the modern world. That includes your ability to earn money down the line.

Women will overlook a crooked nose or a pot belly if you are in a well paid job or are highly successful. What often happens however is that attractive men are also successful in their wealth creation and/or careers.

Women use tinder to pick up and get handy sex, much like men do. Most men who are successful using dating apps are the same men who get mauled and pulled when they walk into any social setting. The fact remains that if you are the best looking bloke in the room you will get first selection on any female interest.

Wibbs · 09-09-2020 9:04pm

FACE IT wrote: »

I agree women are attracted to status, money and power, but most men will not have these. Most men have to trade on their looks. A woman will not settle for an ugly IT nerd because he has a well paid job.

Actually I know two IT nerds who got fairly high up in their fields(in a local sense, nether are millionaires or anything), both with women that are actually well out of their league on looks(which wouldn't be too hard) and one of these guys is a major aspie. Near zero discernable social personality. A conversation with him is like a badly coded turing test. And yet...

Also, these things might get you a woman, but will they get you love? Can a woman really love a man if she is only attracted to his status?

Spin it around: Also, looks and tits might get you a man, but will they get you love? Can a man really love a woman if he is only attracted to her looks?

It really does boil down to if you think you've lost you already have.

Sn@kebite · 09-09-2020 11:09pm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

Not necessarily true. Women do like handsome and attractive men, but there are bigger motivators to their sexual selection and finding a partner. The biggest of those is POWER which basically turns into MONEY in the modern world. That includes your ability to earn money down the line.

Yep. This is true you never hear women describing what they look for in men as a great nurturer; a man who is excellent with children and will share the role of caring for the children so she doesn't fall behind in her career.

Essentially what they're looking for is a traditional man (breadwinner) not a nurturer. You also don't hear women angry they have to take parental leave and that they would rather the man does. So a lot of this modernist feminist nonsense doesn't conform to reality.

Ironically even feminism believes women are nurturers and that men are predatory/dangerous etc.. Just sit in to a women's studies class or look at a domestic abuse shelter website, white ribbon campaign, take back the night, TED talk etc. It's packed with feminist narratives that women are nurturers and that men are dangerous and can't be trusted. Then they complain that men are not doing enough caring work and daycare centers result in boys not seeing men looking after the children.

nthclare · 09-09-2020 11:20pm

It's funny how women often ditch white knights and nice guys and go for bastard's like myself.

Female friends of mine who split up with their men, went for more alpha guys the next time and prefer a manly man who's independent,has some hobbies and isn't following her around like a pleb.

Myself and my girlfriend see each other now and again, and have plenty of space because we prefer that.

Year's ago men would go to war or go hunting and gathering, fishing etc for day's on end and the women would be at home and enjoy their friends and have great banter and craic.
Any man who'd stay at home would be either ill disabled or a priest or law man.

This probably declined 300 year's ago + gradually.

In fairness 300 year's isn't a long time in terms of evolution.

Feisar · 10-09-2020 1:09pm

nthclare wrote: »

It's funny how women often ditch white knights and nice guys and go for bastard's like myself.

Female friends of mine who split up with their men, went for more alpha guys the next time and prefer a manly man who's independent,has some hobbies and isn't following her around like a pleb.

Myself and my girlfriend see each other now and again, and have plenty of space because we prefer that.

Year's ago men would go to war or go hunting and gathering, fishing etc for day's on end and the women would be at home and enjoy their friends and have great banter and craic.
Any man who'd stay at home would be either ill disabled or a priest or law man.

This probably declined 300 year's ago + gradually.

In fairness 300 year's isn't a long time in terms of evolution.

I don't understand the modern interpretation of "nice guy". Simpering little bitch more like.

H3llR4iser · 11-09-2020 2:21am

nthclare wrote: »

It's funny how women often ditch white knights and nice guys and go for bastard's like myself.

Female friends of mine who split up with their men, went for more alpha guys the next time and prefer a manly man who's independent,has some hobbies and isn't following her around like a pleb.

Myself and my girlfriend see each other now and again, and have plenty of space because we prefer that.

Year's ago men would go to war or go hunting and gathering, fishing etc for day's on end and the women would be at home and enjoy their friends and have great banter and craic.
Any man who'd stay at home would be either ill disabled or a priest or law man.

This probably declined 300 year's ago + gradually.

In fairness 300 year's isn't a long time in terms of evolution.

Feisar wrote: »

I don't understand the modern interpretation of "nice guy". Simpering little bitch more like.

I'd say the idea of "sticky love" is much more recent than 300 years - coming into mainstream after WWII or whereabouts, propped by countless movies, TV Series and books portraying the "perfect man" as the one who basically has no personality and goes out of his way to accommodate every one of "her wishes".

The "funny" fact is that as usual, reality doesn't work like a movie - when such type of a relationship happens, it's not long before it starts falling apart; turns out that having an "helicopter boyfriend/husband" ain't as funny nor romantic as Disney wants you to believe.

MGTOW = “men going their own way”

Comments