Do we need to move away from fast fashion?

Day Lewin · 04-02-2019 3:35pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

hope you're not typing that on a smartphone

https://www.google.com/amp/s/theconversation.com/amp/three-ways-making-a-smartphone-can-harm-the-environment-102148

No. Why??

suicide_circus · 04-02-2019 3:35pm

Day Lewin wrote: »

No. Why??

they're bad for the environment

Day Lewin · 04-02-2019 3:37pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

they're bad for the environment

So is breathing. Knowledge is power!

Timmaay · 04-02-2019 3:46pm

Zorya wrote: »

Consumerism and neuroticism are perhaps quite closely linked. More and more of something one already has enough of is suffocating. Plus how is shopping relaxing - intense lights, confined spaces, insane prices.

Interesting, I would more thought neuroticism is a result simply due to the diminishing "happiness" from excessive consumerism, however that's a good point you made, basically no dopamine hit because you have already maxed out the new experience, and the neuroticism comes from the kicks back on you when you go into the withdrawal and craving phase?

And the more I think about it all, it's useful to simply view ourselves all as drug addicts ha, every day we simply go about trying to get our best dopamine/oxytocin/serotonin and endorphins chemical kicks in our brain, obviously actual hard drugs will give you a much more intense high and land you in trouble alot faster than any of the above, however looking at how craving the above 4 chemicals in terms of yourown day to day behavior is very interesting, I certainly know I need to keep all 4 of them somewhat in check, and I know well by now how that stuff like fast fashion will do absolutely nothing other than give me afew very short lived dopamine hits.

Feisar · 04-02-2019 3:46pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

they're bad for the environment

Living in the western world is bad for the environment. I fly a lot due to work. My carbon footprint is scary.

No point in telling you on this thread that i buy two pairs of jeans every two years and that once they are to worn for smart casual they become workwear in the garden.

04-02-2019 3:54pm

I've said for years that I was disappointed that the trend seemed to be for men to be veering towards women when it comes to preening, fashion and all the stupid beauty products everyone now apparently can't imagine doing without. I'm not talking about brushing your teeth and taking care of yourself. :pac: But yeah, the always-on, image-focussed ****tiness leads to this and it's only going to get worse for the next while.

Calibos · 04-02-2019 4:10pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I've said for years that I was disappointed that the trend seemed to be for men to be veering towards women when it comes to preening, fashion and all the stupid beauty products everyone now apparently can't imagine doing without. I'm not talking about brushing your teeth and taking care of yourself. :pac: But yeah, the always-on, image-focussed ****tiness leads to this and it's only going to get worse for the next while.

Said what I wanted to say in a less sexist way.

To hell with it!!

Ladies! You are killing the planet!!

The resources needed for the clothes themselves. The resources needed for all the wardrobe space to house it, and the resources burned to keep the house hot enough for you because you wont wear an extra layer from your massive collection of clothes!

meeeeh · 04-02-2019 4:12pm

Candie wrote: »

It's hard to make fashion less important to a large portion of under 30's/40's, when phrases like 'bang on-trend' are common parlance to so many. If this kind of thing is what's important to people then we should probably address that as the root of it.

How you'd do that is the issue, but I suspect that social media is both a large part of the problem and could play a large part in the cure.

I love fashion, I follow trends religiosity. I could see an outfit in magazine and tell you where half of the stuff is from. But I sleep in t shirt I have since I was 13 (I'm 40 now), I still wear some of my tops and jumpers from teens and twenties and my favourite pair of jeans is 6 years old. Today I wore a pair of high heel boots that are about 8 years old, jumper that must be at least 5 and coat and trousers that were bought this year. And I thought my outfit was quite trendy and nice.

I love fashion and I will never be someone who can stick to capsule wardrobe but once you put some effort in it you can have relatively sustainable attitude to getting dressed. I don't think being on trend is an issue as long as you pick up only certain trends and work with decent basics.

Edit: I'm not trying to say I'm some sort queen of sustainability but I'm pretty sure I by less clothing than most.

Graces7 · 04-02-2019 4:26pm

elperello wrote: »

Charity shop is your friend.

You beat me to it and 100% right!

topper75 · 04-02-2019 4:32pm

meeeeh wrote: »

There are different types of capitalism. And I refuse to believe that capitalism can only work if items are produced in crumbling factories and terrible conditions. People who work in those factories are not lifted out of poverty.

I love capitalism - but it has a key flaw - it is missing a conscience. It is predicated on the exploitation of differentials.

An Irish clothing firm paying Irish workers a decent wage can't compete; there aren't enough consumers with a conscience.

Irish consumer CAN afford to buy Irish clothes, just that they WON'T when it the goods are placed alongside a cheaper and inferior quality Asian alternative.

I watch Trump's policies and UK Brexit with interest in this regard. They are much maligned but seem to be the only hope right now of bucking the nasty trend. This game will play out over decades.

LirW · 04-02-2019 5:13pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I really don't understand why there are not companies that ethically produce there would be a market for it. The depressing thing is that even more expensive clothes are made in this way. Unless you go designer they don't last longer. The only answer is to try and buy less. I would pay more for more ethically produced clothes however I don't see many companies that do this

Look the thing is there are companies out there that operate completely transparent, there are employment projects in third world countries where companies have a set of tailors and seamstresses that are paid a fair wage and have some say about what they do. There are companies that focus on producing ethically and with organic cotton and carry pure cotton items only.
The issue is that the T-shirt then costs 25 Euro instead of 7 and a basic dress costs 65 Euro instead of 20 in Penneys. Many people give out about not being able to afford that (I appreciate that some genuinely can't because every cent is budgeted for) but have no problem leaving the 65 Euros in Penneys for a bigger quantity in items.

In a way we're so spoiled that many do believe a garment should only cost X and don't see paying more for something that comes from a company that does care and tries to change things a bit for the better does come with a price because X is entirely unsustainable to begin with.

I might have it easier with a capsule wardrobe because I don't care too much about fashion, I wear mostly black and my colour palette is monochrome.
I agree with meeeh that with a certain level of consciousness you can be a fashionista with a low impact on the environment if you're just willing to question your buying behaviour.

Trump Is Right · 04-02-2019 5:48pm

"Following fashion trends"

I've always considered this to be a red herring.

Most people that claim to be following these trends, are actually just addicted to constantly changing their appearance. It's got very little to do with looking good. Just a constant need to look different... this is why many of them cannot wear the same clothes again. If it was about looking good, then they would be happy to re-wear the same stuff...

Conor McGregor is a great mainstream example of this.

farmerwifelet · 04-02-2019 6:06pm

It is all pat of a huge problem. I was in the supermarket earlier and the shelves were stacked with Easter eggs beside the valentines day gifts. It is a drift towards mindless consumerism. Food is permantly in season and we get stuff shipped in from around the globe to go stale. It used to be that for clothes and shoes if you paid more you got better quality. Now it is rare to get quality at all. Clothes are one season if even. I buy what I like and wear until it falls apart but now it falls apart so quickly. I would rather pay more and get longer out of it but it's very hard to get quality at reasonable prices. Not dirt cheap but middle ground seems to be lost.

meeeeh · 04-02-2019 8:03pm

Actually one thing that would have significant impact is if we stopped buying the bloody Christmas jumpers. It's hard to think of more mindless consumerism than the jumper which is ugly, not even funny, badly cut and not plesant to wear. Yet every year there are more and more of them in the shops.

Kids were encouraged to wear them for Christmas concert in school previous years. I was going to boycott it this year but it seems I was not the only one and they scrapped it this year.

jam_mac_jam · 04-02-2019 8:43pm

LirW wrote: »

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I really don't understand why there are not companies that ethically produce there would be a market for it. The depressing thing is that even more expensive clothes are made in this way. Unless you go designer they don't last longer. The only answer is to try and buy less. I would pay more for more ethically produced clothes however I don't see many companies that do this

Look the thing is there are companies out there that operate completely transparent, there are employment projects in third world countries where companies have a set of tailors and seamstresses that are paid a fair wage and have some say about what they do. There are companies that focus on producing ethically and with organic cotton and carry pure cotton items only.
The issue is that the T-shirt then costs 25 Euro instead of 7 and a basic dress costs 65 Euro instead of 20 in Penneys. Many people give out about not being able to afford that (I appreciate that some genuinely can't because every cent is budgeted for) but have no problem leaving the 65 Euros in Penneys for a bigger quantity in items.

In a way we're so spoiled that many do believe a garment should only cost X and don't see paying more for something that comes from a company that does care and tries to change things a bit for the better does come with a price because X is entirely unsustainable to begin with.

I might have it easier with a capsule wardrobe because I don't care too much about fashion, I wear mostly black and my colour palette is monochrome.
I agree with meeeh that with a certain level of consciousness you can be a fashionista with a low impact on the environment if you're just willing to question your buying behaviour.

I agree with you that many people can't afford to. Some people can and if given the choice would pay more for ethically produced clothes. You don't even have a choice to do so. Just because you pay 80 quid for jeans doesn't mean it's not made in the same sweatshop as the tenner pennies ones. If retailers or manufacturors gave a choice maybe some people would.

LirW · 04-02-2019 9:19pm

jam_mac_jam wrote: »

I agree with you that many people can't afford to. Some people can and if given the choice would pay more for ethically produced clothes. You don't even have a choice to do so. Just because you pay 80 quid for jeans doesn't mean it's not made in the same sweatshop as the tenner pennies ones. If retailers or manufacturors gave a choice maybe some people would.

There's no need in the industry to be transparent and many people don't give a toss. Many have no idea how to identify a well-made garment that will last.
There are however companies that are quite transparent on how their production chain works, you just have to look for them. Their clothes are still affordable if you decide to buy quality over quantity, there's just a serious lack of knowledge/education that you can buy well made ethical clothes for a fair price.
I'm totally fine with paying 30-40 quid for a well-made pair of leggings that'll last me at least a decade when I wear them a lot.

04-02-2019 9:29pm

Just be thankful we will never have WWII style rationing in the near future, with such limits on coupons you would be forced to make the clothes you had last.
With the shíte quality of much of what is on the market now, most people would be reduces to rags before they got the next allocation of coupons.

Clothing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rationing_in_the_United_Kingdom#Clothing
In Britain during the Second World War, clothes rationing was announced on 1 June 1941. This was majorly caused by the increased need for clothing materials to be utilized for producing uniforms. By this point in the war, one fourth of the population was now wearing uniforms. Much of the female population that needed uniforms were part of the women's auxiliary forces. There were also a lot of volunteer based services and organizations. Of the many things affected by this rationing, the materials tarpaulin and tyre were heavily affected. It also became difficult for civilians to get shoes and boots.

Another major part of rationing was the implementation of a coupon system. There were 66 points for clothing per year; in 1942 it was cut to 48, in 1943 to 36, and in 1945 to 24. This system operated through a "points" system. Clothing was ranked and based on this ranking, civilians would be able to purchase clothing. Clothing rationing points could also be used for wool, cotton and household textiles. Before rationing lace and frills were popular on knickers but these were soon banned so that material could be saved. The amount of points that each piece of clothing would be valued at was determined by not only how much labor went into making it, but also how much material was used. A dress could run someone 11 coupons, whereas a pair of stockings only cost 2. Similarly, Men’s shoes cost 7 tickets, whiles women’s cost only 5. In 1945, an overcoat (wool and fully lined) was 18 coupons; a man's suit, 26–29 (according to lining); Children aged 14–16 got 20 more coupons.

meeeeh · 04-02-2019 9:36pm

LirW wrote: »

I'm totally fine with paying 30-40 quid for a well-made pair of leggings that'll last me at least a decade when I wear them a lot.

I don't think you can get that much out of leggings. No matter how well they are made elastane in material will stretch if you wear them a lot and there is a good chance they will become a bit see through.

NIMAN · 04-02-2019 9:42pm

'Fashion' is a shocking waste of resources.

For millions of people to stop wearing clothes because someone has said that they are 'last years style' when there is years of wear left in them is economically stupid.

LirW · 04-02-2019 9:45pm

meeeeh wrote: »

I don't think you can get that much out of leggings. No matter how well they are made elastane in material will stretch if you wear them a lot and there is a good chance they will become a bit see through.

Bad example, replace leggings with dress/shirt/jumper. I'm just fed up with leggings getting holes due to poor fabric knitting that's often not visible when you buy. You know, the holes that start out tiny and within 3 washes are like a 2 euro coin.

04-02-2019 9:53pm

LirW wrote: »

Bad example, replace leggings with dress/shirt/jumper. I'm just fed up with leggings getting holes due to poor fabric knitting that's often not visible when you buy. You know, the holes that start out tiny and within 3 washes are like a 2 euro coin.

Here's a good video on why your clothes wear out too quickly.

It starts on nylon tights section, but good to watch the whole video.

https://youtu.be/zdh7_PA8GZU?t=1605

Electric Sheep · 04-02-2019 10:50pm

farmerwifelet wrote: »

It is all pat of a huge problem. I was in the supermarket earlier and the shelves were stacked with Easter eggs beside the valentines day gifts. It is a drift towards mindless consumerism. Food is permantly in season and we get stuff shipped in from around the globe to go stale. It used to be that for clothes and shoes if you paid more you got better quality. Now it is rare to get quality at all. Clothes are one season if even. I buy what I like and wear until it falls apart but now it falls apart so quickly. I would rather pay more and get longer out of it but it's very hard to get quality at reasonable prices. Not dirt cheap but middle ground seems to be lost.

This is unfortunately true. I remember when a pair of jeans would last years without a tear. Now, they seem to disintegrate around the one year mark. I thought that it was because I tumble dry my clothes now (apartment living) whereas when I was a child/teen they were always line dried, but it may be down to quality. I am talking good jeans, Hudson or Seven for all Mankind, or AG, not Pennys or Zara.

AMKC · 04-02-2019 10:54pm

LirW wrote: »

Bad example, replace leggings with dress/shirt/jumper. I'm just fed up with leggings getting holes due to poor fabric knitting that's often not visible when you buy. You know, the holes that start out tiny and within 3 washes are like a 2 euro coin.

I find hand washing certain items of clothing like tights, leggings, underwear and some clothes makes them last longer than putting them in the washing machine as this seems to wear out the clothes quicker.

Dr. Em · 09-05-2019 3:32pm

Fast fashion is a huge problem in terms of waste and emissions, but it is hard to get excited about it when we don't actually see the harm first-hand. I was talking to someone the other day who said that one of the local streams used to run with dye many summers ago because there was a carpet factory upstream and I think people would worry more if clothing pollution was more visible. I imagine (hope!) clothes made in the EU would have more stringent checks on them now than clothes from developing countries, if you can find them or afford them.
The convenience of high street fashion combined with peer pressure makes it hard to push against fast fashion too. I find that wearing things more between washings and washing at cooler temperatures or handwashing, if you have the time, helps to keep things looking fresh longer. Air-drying also helps if have an outside line, but our damp rainy climate is against us there.
I found a good blog called 'Living Lightly in Ireland' that has a list of sustainable fashion retailers. I've tried out one or two on the list and been pretty happy with them, but spent more time 'window-shopping'. Of course, it is best to reuse stuff and buy less... Maybe I'll learn how to sew and make patchwork clothes?

Feisar · 09-05-2019 3:39pm

KerryGoat · 09-05-2019 3:43pm

From a personal point of view I think fast fashion has a place in the world, it's good to buy clothes with a short shelf life, especially if you are buying for a very specific purpose, but I totally understand the ethical issues people see with it.

Balanadan · 09-05-2019 4:47pm

Fast fashion is a utter ****e. Terrible quality clothes and appalling consequences for the environment.

Do we need to move away from fast fashion?

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