Need to move from VM

forzacalcio · 13-01-2021 12:32am #1

So Ive been with Virgin Media for the past 4 years, the last year has been a nightmare with them, 4 routers and 4 engineer visits later and my conection drops on everything, ethernet and Wi-Fi about 5 times a day. Im right next to the router for most of it. To cut a long story short they cant find an issue, they keep saying nothing is wrong on their end.

My plan is to move providors at this stage, The problem I have is when I was with Eir before the phone line is on opposite side of the house away from everyone. I ended up having to get out of contract with them before. Now I can apparantly avail of fibre 1gb line. I know there were works done on the street to install this about 6 months ago but the have done nothing in the house bounderies. Does this mean Ill still be using a rubbish copper line coming into the house via the same phone line? How do Eir/Sky etc provide their fibre line into the house? Is it a waste of time moving? Im not under contract with VM and I still hope they can fix it but I want to ensure I dont get into another contract with Eir or Sky and end up back 5 years ago when the problem was actually worse.

Any advice help is appreciated.
Plan A is Id prefer to stay with VM
Plan B is to bite the bullet and jump ship

babelfish1990 · 13-01-2021 2:12am

forzacalcio wrote: »

So Ive been with Virgin Media for the past 4 years, the last year has been a nightmare with them, 4 routers and 4 engineer visits later and my conection drops on everything, ethernet and Wi-Fi about 5 times a day. Im right next to the router for most of it. To cut a long story short they cant find an issue, they keep saying nothing is wrong on their end.

My plan is to move providors at this stage, The problem I have is when I was with Eir before the phone line is on opposite side of the house away from everyone. I ended up having to get out of contract with them before. Now I can apparantly avail of fibre 1gb line. I know there were works done on the street to install this about 6 months ago but the have done nothing in the house bounderies. Does this mean Ill still be using a rubbish copper line coming into the house via the same phone line? How do Eir/Sky etc provide their fibre line into the house? Is it a waste of time moving? Im not under contract with VM and I still hope they can fix it but I want to ensure I dont get into another contract with Eir or Sky and end up back 5 years ago when the problem was actually worse.

Any advice help is appreciated.
Plan A is Id prefer to stay with VM
Plan B is to bite the bullet and jump ship

Go for Plan B. Ditch the VM copper coax which is clearly giving you trouble, and go for FTTH.

When Eir convert an area to FTTH, they run the fibre to each distribution point on your street, but they dont immediately connect each home. When a customer signs up for FTTH service they run the final drop from the street to the house. They won't use the copper cable for 1Gbps service, but they will likely prefer to use the duct that it is in, so it may still arrive at the same place in your house. You can discuss this with the installer, and there may be some flexibility if you can offer an alternative route that is is convenient.

If your router is on the wrong side of the house, and you don't have Cat6 wiring in the house, this shouldnt be a major issue. You should consider installing a mesh WiFi system. This will extend good quality WiFi throughout the house, and you can add as many nodes as you require.

ED E · 13-01-2021 8:52am

forzacalcio wrote: »

So Ive been with Virgin Media for the past 4 years, the last year has been a nightmare with them, 4 routers and 4 engineer visits later and my conection drops on everything, ethernet and Wi-Fi about 5 times a day. Im right next to the router for most of it. To cut a long story short they cant find an issue, they keep saying nothing is wrong on their end.

Its crashing and rebooting. Known flaw.

Something on your network is creating enough TCP flows to trigger it, find that, turn it off, itll stay online.

forzacalcio · 13-01-2021 11:54pm

babelfish1990 wrote: »

Go for Plan B. Ditch the VM copper coax which is clearly giving you trouble, and go for FTTH.

When Eir convert an area to FTTH, they run the fibre to each distribution point on your street, but they dont immediately connect each home. When a customer signs up for FTTH service they run the final drop from the street to the house. They won't use the copper cable for 1Gbps service, but they will likely prefer to use the duct that it is in, so it may still arrive at the same place in your house. You can discuss this with the installer, and there may be some flexibility if you can offer an alternative route that is is convenient.

If your router is on the wrong side of the house, and you don't have Cat6 wiring in the house, this shouldnt be a major issue. You should consider installing a mesh WiFi system. This will extend good quality WiFi throughout the house, and you can add as many nodes as you require.

Thanks for this. Appreciate it. So yes FTTH is available, now Im just wondering a few things

DOes it matter if I go with Eir/Sky or Vodadone? Do they use the same installers? Also do I get to decide where they install it or does it need to go via my old copper line? ( I know you answered this but just wondering what they normally do, its not too far away tbh its just the walls are fairly thick and had issues with the regular Eir broadband about 4 years ago, this is the only worry)

How are they installing these? They are hardly digging from the street so is it done via the current electricity lines if its not done via the current copper line?

rockatansky · 13-01-2021 11:58pm

Even the idea of someone recommending Eir as an alternative company is absolutely frightening.

colm_c · 13-01-2021 11:59pm

For your sanity, don't get it from Eir, they're customer service is a joke.

When we had broadband over phone line, we had the same issue with the location of the box.

Got some powerline plugs to route it to where it needed to go.

Would probably go for mesh WiFi now though.

forzacalcio · 14-01-2021 12:00am

colm_c wrote: »

For your sanity, don't get it from Eir, they're customer service is a joke.

When we had broadband over phone line, we had the same issue with the location of the box.

Got some powerline plugs to route it to where it needed to go.

Would probably go for mesh WiFi now though.

This is my main worry, I had long and horrendous issues with Eir for about a year. I have Sky, if I can go with them I will. I want to make sure its installed right though so its a case of which is the correct decsion.

forzacalcio · 14-01-2021 12:01am

rockatansky wrote: »

Even the idea of someone recommending Eir as an alternative company is absolutely frightening.

Totally agree. Its breaking my heart so if anyone has a decent alternative, Im all ears

babelfish1990 · 14-01-2021 2:24am

forzacalcio wrote: »

Thanks for this. Appreciate it. So yes FTTH is available, now Im just wondering a few things

DOes it matter if I go with Eir/Sky or Vodadone? Do they use the same installers? Also do I get to decide where they install it or does it need to go via my old copper line? ( I know you answered this but just wondering what they normally do, its not too far away tbh its just the walls are fairly thick and had issues with the regular Eir broadband about 4 years ago, this is the only worry)

How are they installing these? They are hardly digging from the street so is it done via the current electricity lines if its not done via the current copper line?

Eir don't use the existing copper phone lines or the electricity lines - but they re-use the ducts that their phone lines are in. They don't generally need to dig up the road. If the duct is blocked, they can use a mole to drill a new duct route. If a householder can offer a preferred new duct route with a draw string, I would expect that they would also be happy to use this.

The re-sellers such as Sky & Vodafone use Eir's FTTH network, so while you might end up with a different branding on your router box, the connection into your home will be exactly the same. Eir have sub-contractors (KN-Circet) who appear to do most of the Civil works. Depending on which re-seller you chose, this might limit your choice of bundle (eg Sky don't do mobile or IPTV), or they might offer different levels of contention into the Internet, despite you having plenty of capacity on your home connection.

It is a mistake to try to cover your whole house with one WiFi box, if you have a large house, or thick walls. Mesh systems have become very affordable, and you should use as many nodes as required to give you good service throughout the house. TV boxes need 5GHz WiFi, which doesn't like going through thick or dry-lined walls - so you should aim to have a WiFi node in each room where you have a TV box. If you install a mesh system, you can switch off the WiFi in your main router, so that the whole house works seamlessly on the mesh SSID. If you don't have internal Cat 6 wiring, position the mesh nodes so that they shoot the WiFi from one node to the next through the paths of least resistance (stair-wells, doors, hallways etc.). When you have FTTH, it is worth investing a little in making sure your home network is up to spec.

forzacalcio · 14-01-2021 8:57am

babelfish1990 wrote: »

Eir don't use the existing copper phone lines or the electricity lines - but they re-use the ducts that their phone lines are in. They don't generally need to dig up the road. If the duct is blocked, they can use a mole to drill a new duct route. If a householder can offer a preferred new duct route with a draw string, I would expect that they would also be happy to use this.

The re-sellers such as Sky & Vodafone use Eir's FTTH network, so while you might end up with a different branding on your router box, the connection into your home will be exactly the same. Eir have sub-contractors (KN-Circet) who appear to do most of the Civil works. Depending on which re-seller you chose, this might limit your choice of bundle (eg Sky don't do mobile or IPTV), or they might offer different levels of contention into the Internet, despite you having plenty of capacity on your home connection.

It is a mistake to try to cover your whole house with one WiFi box, if you have a large house, or thick walls. Mesh systems have become very affordable, and you should use as many nodes as required to give you good service throughout the house. TV boxes need 5GHz WiFi, which doesn't like going through thick or dry-lined walls - so you should aim to have a WiFi node in each room where you have a TV box. If you install a mesh system, you can switch off the WiFi in your main router, so that the whole house works seamlessly on the mesh SSID. If you don't have internal Cat 6 wiring, position the mesh nodes so that they shoot the WiFi from one node to the next through the paths of least resistance (stair-wells, doors, hallways etc.). When you have FTTH, it is worth investing a little in making sure your home network is up to spec.

Very helpful thank you very much.
I am guessing here the safer bet is Eir?
The reason I ask is well yes it's Eir, but they are also 2 years and more expensive when Sky and Vodafone are 1 year contracts and €20 cheaper. If there is one thing I hate is contracts with support who are very difficult to deal with. Is the installation the same or am I best going with Eir for long term solution?

EDIT: Sky have told me they cant get FTTH to me but Eir can, that answers that

tobdom · 14-01-2021 2:54pm

forzacalcio wrote: »

Very helpful thank you very much.
I am guessing here the safer bet is Eir?
The reason I ask is well yes it's Eir, but they are also 2 years and more expensive when Sky and Vodafone are 1 year contracts and €20 cheaper. If there is one thing I hate is contracts with support who are very difficult to deal with. Is the installation the same or am I best going with Eir for long term solution?

EDIT: Sky have told me they cant get FTTH to me but Eir can, that answers that

That's exactly what you're signing up for if you go with Eir, it's not worth the hassle. There should be other providers who you haven't considered yet, Digiweb for example. As a current customer, I must say that Digiweb's customer service is very good. At the end of the day, you'll be getting pretty much the same product from any of the providers, so cost, length of contract and customer service are the key things to consider

Installation is the same regardless of which provider you choose - it's outsourced anyway. Only difference will be what kind of router you're provided with. It seems odd Sky say that they can't offer you Fibre, if you are actually Fibre enabled....

forzacalcio · 14-01-2021 3:40pm

tobdom wrote: »

That's exactly what you're signing up for if you go with Eir, it's not worth the hassle. There should be other providers who you haven't considered yet, Digiweb for example. As a current customer, I must say that Digiweb's customer service is very good. At the end of the day, you'll be getting pretty much the same product from any of the providers, so cost, length of contract and customer service are the key things to consider

Installation is the same regardless of which provider you choose - it's outsourced anyway. Only difference will be what kind of router you're provided with. It seems odd Sky say that they can't offer you Fibre, if you are actually Fibre enabled....

Its enabled at the street, They still need to feed it into my house so one assumes Eir can and Sky cant or they simply havent updated their database yet. Strange one.

tobdom · 14-01-2021 4:35pm

forzacalcio wrote: »

Its enabled at the street, They still need to feed it into my house so one assumes Eir can and Sky cant or they simply havent updated their database yet. Strange one.

Something along these lines is more likely.... This is my understanding - Eir are a retail provider like Sky or anyone else that offers the broadband packages. They all submit new connections orders via OpenEir (Eir wholesale division) and the connection/installation is carried out by a 3rd party (typically KN Networks).

Check with your eircode on these to see if they show FTTH being available:
https://www.airwire.ie/index.php/avail
https://digiweb.ie/broadband-checker/

forzacalcio · 14-01-2021 5:57pm

tobdom wrote: »

Something along these lines is more likely.... This is my understanding - Eir are a retail provider like Sky or anyone else that offers the broadband packages. They all submit new connections orders via OpenEir (Eir wholesale division) and the connection/installation is carried out by a 3rd party (typically KN Networks).

Check with your eircode on these to see if they show FTTH being available:
https://www.airwire.ie/index.php/avail
https://digiweb.ie/broadband-checker/

Yep both say available, Very strange. Never thought of Digiweb, any good?
Sky is the convenient one tbh, I already have TV with them , it would be very handy

WLad · 14-01-2021 9:08pm

forzacalcio wrote: »

Yep both say available, Very strange. Never thought of Digiweb, any good?
Sky is the convenient one tbh, I already have TV with them , it would be very handy

I've just moved to Sky ftth.
A heads up the router is absolutely horrendous. If it reboots at all everything on the network loses an ip address and can't get a new one. It's a well known issue so I'm not sure why they are still sending them out. I've bought a mesh system that the sky router will sit in front of instead.

One thing I've noticed though is that I'm on the 500Mb package and I get close to this during the day pretty much all day, but at night it drops to 60-150Mb. I would have thought it would be the same all day considering its fibre, can anyone comment?

babelfish1990 · 15-01-2021 1:10am

WLad wrote: »

I've just moved to Sky ftth.
A heads up the router is absolutely horrendous. If it reboots at all everything on the network loses an ip address and can't get a new one. It's a well known issue so I'm not sure why they are still sending them out. I've bought a mesh system that the sky router will sit in front of instead.

One thing I've noticed though is that I'm on the 500Mb package and I get close to this during the day pretty much all day, but at night it drops to 60-150Mb. I would have thought it would be the same all day considering its fibre, can anyone comment?

That's a sure sign that Sky is heavily congested in the evenings. The FTTH fibre connection only ensures that you have 500Mbps on the eir fibre from your home to the handoff to Sky. Sky are not obliged to provide that speed across the Internet. Some ISPs can be stingy in sizing the capacity of their pipes - difficult to get hard information on this - but your example is pretty clear.

Overall, the industry over-hypes the maximum speeds available on fibre, with little or no consideration given to other important parameters, such as congestion, latency, and whether local caching servers exist for Google, Netflix etc. These factors can be much more important that headline speeds.

WLad · 15-01-2021 1:29am

babelfish1990 wrote: »

That's a sure sign that Sky is heavily congested in the evenings. The FTTH fibre connection only ensures that you have 500Mbps on the eir fibre from your home to the handoff to Sky. Sky are not obliged to provide that speed across the Internet. Some ISPs can be stingy in sizing the capacity of their pipes - difficult to get hard information on this - but your example is pretty clear.

Overall, the industry over-hypes the maximum speeds available on fibre, with little or no consideration given to other important parameters, such as congestion, latency, and whether local caching servers exist for Google, Netflix etc. These factors can be much more important that headline speeds.

OK I get you, thanks. Do you know why my old ftth vodafone router would still be working even though sky are managing my line now? I bought tenda mesh system but want to avoid double NAT (and sky doesn't support bridge mode) so was hoping I could just stick vodafone router in bridge and forget about it. However I'm still expecting it to stop working or for them to ask for it back. Only on sky 2 days.

babelfish1990 · 15-01-2021 1:51am

WLad wrote: »

OK I get you, thanks. Do you know why my old ftth vodafone router would still be working even though sky are managing my line now? I bought tenda mesh system but want to avoid double NAT (and sky doesn't support bridge mode) so was hoping I could just stick vodafone router in bridge and forget about it. However I'm still expecting it to stop working or for them to ask for it back. Only on sky 2 days.

Vodafone have probably lost contact with your router since you ported to Sky. While the Vodafone router may still be "working", it is not being "managed". Over time, it won't receive security patches, which could leave you exposed - and if you need help from Sky customer-care they won't be able to manage the Vodafone router for you. There is no need to use two routers. Just connect your first Tenda Access Point to an Ethernet port on your Sky router. Switch off the WiFi in your Sky router, and use it just as a router, while using the Tenda mesh for all your WiFi.

WLad · 15-01-2021 2:44am

babelfish1990 wrote: »

Vodafone have probably lost contact with your router since you ported to Sky. While the Vodafone router may still be "working", it is not being "managed". Over time, it won't receive security patches, which could leave you exposed - and if you need help from Sky customer-care they won't be able to manage the Vodafone router for you. There is no need to use two routers. Just connect your first Tenda Access Point to an Ethernet port on your Sky router. Switch off the WiFi in your Sky router, and use it just as a router, while using the Tenda mesh for all your WiFi.

OK great to know. I thought sky would have different auth on the line so the vodafone router shouldn't be working.

So in this setup I'm using the sky router for dhcp and routing stuff and the tenda nova is just a group of APs is that right?

The reason I stopped using the sky router was basically because of this issue: https://helpforum.sky.com/t5/Broadband/Sky-Router-SR203-DHCP-issues-on-reboot/td-p/3276267/page/52 where randomly everything on my network just can't get an ip so can't connect.

I was going to buy a 3rd party router but I didn't have a clue what models were suitable, ie pppoe vdsl etc. All I know is none of them say "suitable for ftth with an otn" haha.

forzacalcio · 17-01-2021 11:48pm

Went for Eir FTTH. I seem to be 100metres from the fibre cabinet (As the crow flies) about 400m via road so hopefully it should be fine. My main worry is how he gets this into the house from the road.

I still find it strange that Sky website says I can get it but when I call them I can't. It's also 20 quid cheaper and one year lease contract with Sky but I'd rather it done right so chose Eir.

Thanks for all the help all

CoBo55 · 18-01-2021 12:11am

forzacalcio wrote: »

Went for Eir FTTH. I seem to be 100metres from the fibre cabinet (As the crow flies) about 400m via road so hopefully it should be fine. My main worry is how he gets this into the house from the road.

I still find it strange that Sky website says I can get it but when I call them I can't. It's also 20 quid cheaper and one year lease contract with Sky but I'd rather it done right so chose Eir.

Thanks for all the help all

If your connection involves a cabinet it isn't ftth 100m 400m or otherwise, looks like you're back to the copper twisted pair.

tobdom · 18-01-2021 10:41am

forzacalcio wrote: »

Went for Eir FTTH. I seem to be 100metres from the fibre cabinet (As the crow flies) about 400m via road so hopefully it should be fine. My main worry is how he gets this into the house from the road.

I still find it strange that Sky website says I can get it but when I call them I can't. It's also 20 quid cheaper and one year lease contract with Sky but I'd rather it done right so chose Eir.

Thanks for all the help all

Were you sent here by Eir?! :pac:
That's not a phrase you'd hear too many people uttering. As above, if there's talk of a cabinet, you're likely not getting 'real' FTTH.

forzacalcio · 18-01-2021 12:48pm

No Im just going by fibrerollout.ie etc that states there is a cabinet nearby but I know my street does have Fibre underground it just needs to be pulled in from the road.

Sky are now saying they can offer the ftth.
I signed up for Eir last night and rweceived an email which included a once of €49 fee. It stated upon signing up that there was no once off costs. This has already annoyed me tbh and I think I will cancel and go with Sky.

Its 1 year instead of 2 year contract and its €20 cheaper its a no brainer from what I can see

CoBo55 · 18-01-2021 12:55pm

forzacalcio wrote: »

No Im just going by fibrerollout.ie etc that states there is a cabinet nearby but I know my street does have Fibre underground it just needs to be pulled in from the road.

Sky are now saying they can offer the ftth.
I signed up for Eir last night and rweceived an email which included a once of €49 fee. It stated upon signing up that there was no once off costs. This has already annoyed me tbh and I think I will cancel and go with Sky.

Its 1 year instead of 2 year contract and its €20 cheaper its a no brainer from what I can see

Everybody without exception told you to stay away from eir...
This is going to be good.

Easier solution altogether would be to get a decent router, put the VM hub in modem mode, haggle VM for a half price deal and sail off into the sunset...

forzacalcio · 18-01-2021 1:08pm

CoBo55 wrote: »

Everybody without exception told you to stay away from eir...
This is going to be good.

Easier solution altogether would be to get a decent router, put the VM hub in modem mode, haggle VM for a half price deal and sail off into the sunset...

Everyone did yes

I had no alternative but now I do with Sky, Im furious I took that chance tbh.
Im putting all my eggs in with Sky, I can sort the router out another day

What are the odds I come back in two months givig out that Eir have been charging me the whole time...

ED E · 18-01-2021 1:11pm

If you have FTTH just use your own router, anything else is lunacy.

forzacalcio · 18-01-2021 1:12pm

ED E wrote: »

If you have FTTH just use your own router, anything else is lunacy.

Any recommednations what and where to get a decent one? I might aswell get everything sorted now actually.

CoBo55 · 18-01-2021 1:13pm

ED E wrote: »

If you have FTTH just use your own router, anything else is lunacy.

That's a bit harsh.... It's Sky, so maybe not...

CoBo55 · 18-01-2021 1:14pm

forzacalcio wrote: »

Any recommednations what and where to get a decent one? I might aswell get everything sorted now actually.

Should have done that in the first place and stayed with VM.

forzacalcio · 18-01-2021 1:27pm

CoBo55 wrote: »

Should have done that in the first place and stayed with VM.

Im getting same issue with ethernet, 4 different routers (All be it VM router) that suggests the issue lies with the line coming in?

CoBo55 · 18-01-2021 2:14pm

forzacalcio wrote: »

Im getting same issue with ethernet, 4 different routers (All be it VM router) that suggests the issue lies with the line coming in?

It's something on your network according to ED_E and he knows his stuff.

Need to move from VM

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