Incident in Tesco today

Zebra3 · 10-04-2021 4:50pm

dotsman wrote: »

Ideally, the scumbag should have been beaten from the store.

However, this is Ireland, where security guards are the ones who get fcuked over if the poor criminal has their feelings hurt.

Ah yes, the call for violence. A common cry on here.

bucketybuck · 10-04-2021 4:51pm

So, you can be challenged for wearing a hood at the same time as you can be challenged for not wearing a mask?

Have we got a problem with people covering their face or not?

ShatterAlan · 10-04-2021 4:56pm

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

How is this even a question. Of course he should.

Their shop, their rules.

A shop doesn't have "rules".

It's not a private club where you pay a membership fee and sign a contract and agree to adhere to certain rules including a dress code.

The only thing a shop can insist on is that patrons adhere to the law. If you attempt to steal something or assault a staff member or try to pass off counterfeit money or threaten another patron or smoke while in the shop then you are in breach of the law. What you wear has nothing to do with the law and nothing to do with the shop.

Graces7 · 10-04-2021 5:04pm

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Why does a person need to be identifiable?

And unless you actually know the person then you can't identify them anyway.

If there is eg a robbery then CCTV evidence will help ID and catch the perpetrator. If he is masked and hooded then that is nigh impossible. In the post I mentioned banks and helmets for that reason.

ShatterAlan · 10-04-2021 5:05pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't know - do you instinctively associate the hijab with gangs of scumbags that ransack shops and fleece the place?

Last Summer I saw a picture of a guy out in Dalkey. He was wearing typical scrote attire, grey hoody, track-suit bottoms, trainers, baseball cap, carrying a supervalu bag, probably full of cans of Dutch Gold. God knows what the knacker was doing in such a well heeled area. Definitely up to no good.

That scumbag was Matt Damon.

ShatterAlan · 10-04-2021 5:15pm

Graces7 wrote: »

If there is eg a robbery then CCTV evidence will help ID and catch the perpetrator. If he is masked and hooded then that is nigh impossible. In the post I mentioned banks and helmets for that reason.

IF there is a robbery. It's always "what if" that's barfed out to justify idiotic restrictions and measures.

If I go into a shop wearing and hoody and the place is robbed it has nothing to do with me.

I have a parka with a fur-lined hood. With the hood up it comes well over the sides of my face. With a face mask and gloves on you'd be hard-pressed to tell the colour of my skin let alone for a cctv camera to capture any valuable information regarding who I am.

You say "what if the guy was about to rob the place?" and I say "what if the guy WASN'T about to rob the place? What if he was a regular Joe Bloggs after a days work getting some items for his tea. What if he was tired and his head was cold and he didn't like to be treated like a kid or a criminal?"

Your fears don't override his rights.

10-04-2021 5:20pm

ShatterAlan wrote: »

Last Summer I saw a picture of a guy out in Dalkey. He was wearing typical scrote attire, grey hoody, track-suit bottoms, trainers, baseball cap, carrying a supervalu bag, probably full of cans of Dutch Gold. God knows what the knacker was doing in such a well heeled area. Definitely up to no good.

That scumbag was Matt Damon.

Okay... and..?

pgj2015 · 10-04-2021 5:23pm

Funny the way the op said the guy had a trousers on with paint on it, he was probably coming from work. so harmless. one of the biggest knackers from my local town is a tradesman so its not like they are all harmless.

growleaves · 10-04-2021 5:29pm

dotsman wrote: »

Ideally, the scumbag should have been beaten from the store.

However, this is Ireland, where security guards are the ones who get fcuked over if the poor criminal has their feelings hurt.

Eh wearing a hood isn't a criminal offence.

Ckendrick · 10-04-2021 5:34pm

growleaves wrote: »

Eh wearing a hood isn't a criminal offence.

Refusing service to a customer isn’t any kind of an offence as long as it’s not discrimination. You do NOT have the right to demand to be served.

greasepalm · 10-04-2021 5:39pm

Early this morning was bitterly cold and is possible he was frozen?

I can see why security guard had an issue as might have been worried ?

Right or wrong as it all happens in a blink of an eye.

If it was mid summer then he would/should not have his hoodie up.

xhomelezz · 10-04-2021 5:43pm

Well he had his hoodie up and been followed by security, he payed for his shopping. So everything is ok. So what's the problem.

JackTC · 10-04-2021 5:45pm

xhomelezz wrote: »

Well he had his hoodie up and been followed by security, he payed for his shopping. So everything is ok. So what's the problem.

The problem is should he have taken down the hood like the security guard asked or was the guard out of line repeatedly asking him to do so?

forestgirl · 10-04-2021 5:51pm

The man could have a serious head injury and may be keeping it covered especially with covid around

xhomelezz · 10-04-2021 5:52pm

JackTC wrote: »

The problem is should he have taken down the hood like the security guard asked or was the guard out of line asking him to do so?

To be honest I don't know. I wear baseball cap all the time, never ever anyone asked me to take it off apart from Stansted airport security when checking in for flight. Maybe hoodies on are some kind of sign of troubles. Not surprised by that, when I see great contributors of society wearing them. Back to your question, I don't know what's the store policy. But as I said. Guy refused to take his hoodie off, got followed by security, payed for his shopping. So all is ok.

xhomelezz · 10-04-2021 5:54pm

forestgirl wrote: »

The man could have a serious head injury and may be keeping it covered especially with covid around

What are the chances of this scenario?

redmgar · 10-04-2021 5:56pm

JohnMcm1 wrote: »

I would usually agree that it's inappropriate to walk around with your hood up, on the other hand I think it would be hypocritical to force someone to take their hood down but having no problem with a Muslim wearing a full hijab.

Not really, one is for religious reasons, the other is just being a chav.

Yester · 10-04-2021 5:58pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

Maybe he did it for religious reasons....

A Brother of the Hood.

kennethsmyth · 10-04-2021 5:59pm

dotsman wrote: »

Ideally, the scumbag should have been beaten from the store.

However, this is Ireland, where security guards are the ones who get fcuked over if the poor criminal has their feelings hurt.

How do you know he was a scumbag, op said he was mid 30's and harmless looking. If you want to make unsubstantiated comments maybe look at yourself in a mirror when you call someone that.

pgj2015 · 10-04-2021 6:04pm

maybe he was deaf and didn't know what the mall cop was asking him?

still its always best to beat him out of the shop first and ask questions later.

forestgirl · 10-04-2021 6:47pm

xhomelezz wrote: »

What are the chances of this scenario?

extremely small but it just reminded me when I was in Tesco last year there was a man and I tell you a quarter of his head was missing

xhomelezz · 10-04-2021 7:00pm

forestgirl wrote: »

extremely small but it just reminded me when I was in Tesco last year there was a man and I tell you a quarter of his head was missing

Shìt happens for sure. And can happen to any of us. So yeah I take your point.

10-04-2021 8:14pm

private business, they should have told him to lose the hood or fck right off.

by rights they shouldn't have served him, but i suppose sometimes it just not worth the hassle.

sporina · 10-04-2021 8:17pm

aren't there lots of places where you are not allowed to wear a hood up? For security reasons I think?

10-04-2021 8:21pm

redmgar wrote: »

Not really, one is for religious reasons, the other is just being a chav.

killing/beating/mutiliating someone can be for religious reasons.

killing/beating/mutiliating someone can be because you're a chav.

religious reasons doesn't make something ok.

also the burqa/niqab/face veil is never mentioned in the koran. not once. its not a religious garment, its a bag which was used in ancient mesopotamia to stop rival men from getting a rod from looking at your new wife.

then it disappeared from history.

then the ottomans brought it back.

then it disappeared again.

then these wahabbi/salafist shtbags brought it back.

kennethsmyth · 10-04-2021 10:09pm

85603 wrote: »

private business, they should have told him to lose the hood or fck right off.

by rights they shouldn't have served him, but i suppose sometimes it just not worth the hassle.

Unless the policy is shown at entrance they will find themselves in a bit of problem once the person is inside - they can refuse entry but once in its a lot harder to take the person out without it being considered assault.

pgj2015 · 10-04-2021 10:11pm

kennethsmyth wrote: »

Unless the policy is shown at entrance they will find themselves in a bit of problem once the person is inside - they can refuse entry but once in its a lot harder to take the person out without it being considered assault.

How do bouncers get away with it so?

10-04-2021 10:48pm

kennethsmyth wrote: »

Unless the policy is shown at entrance they will find themselves in a bit of problem once the person is inside - they can refuse entry but once in its a lot harder to take the person out without it being considered assault.

a purchase is a contract.

which requires offer and acceptance.

thatll be 900 euro for the can of coke.

kennethsmyth · 10-04-2021 10:56pm

85603 wrote: »

a purchase is a contract.

which requires offer and acceptance.

thatll be 900 euro for the can of coke.

I never said they couldn’t refuse service, I stated removing someone already in the premises that wasn’t stopped on entry ids difficult. You’d need gardai unless the person goes willingly if you want to avoid an action for assault

kennethsmyth · 10-04-2021 10:57pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

How do bouncers get away with it so?

Ha ha bouncers think they are a law unto themselves, they don’t fear the assault charge “he was drunk judge”

10-04-2021 11:02pm

kennethsmyth wrote: »

I never said they couldn’t refuse service, I stated removing someone already in the premises that wasn’t stopped on entry ids difficult. You’d need gardai unless the person goes willingly if you want to avoid an action for assault

as difficult as picking up a phone.

a security worker can detain you for damage or theft.

pgj2015 · 10-04-2021 11:06pm

kennethsmyth wrote: »

I never said they couldn’t refuse service, I stated removing someone already in the premises that wasn’t stopped on entry ids difficult. You’d need gardai unless the person goes willingly if you want to avoid an action for assault

There is a big difference between assault and escorting someone off the premises. also it would be all on camera if an accusation of assault is ever made.

realdanbreen · 14-04-2021 2:54pm

yerwanthere123 wrote: »

When I opened a thread about an 'Incident in Tesco today' I was expecting to read about an incident in Tesco today.

What day did you open it?

14-04-2021 3:28pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

There is a big difference between assault and escorting someone off the premises. also it would be all on camera if an accusation of assault is ever made.

Its not that straightforward. An assault can be as simple as putting your hands on someone. Assault and assault causing harm are distinct things.

Detention is another tricky matter, and this one is loosely defined. Detention could be as simple as being stopped by security. If you detain someone, and it later emerges you were wrong, honestly-held and reasonably-held suspicions are no defence.

Point I'm making is that security staff have to be very careful in everything they do.

pgj2015 · 14-04-2021 4:07pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Its not that straightforward. An assault can be as simple as putting your hands on someone. Assault and assault causing harm are distinct things.

Detention is another tricky matter, and this one is loosely defined. Detention could be as simple as being stopped by security. If you detain someone, and it later emerges you were wrong, honestly-held and reasonably-held suspicions are no defence.

Point I'm making is that security staff have to be very careful in everything they do.

2.—(1) A person shall be guilty of the offence of assault who, without lawful excuse, intentionally or recklessly—

(a) directly or indirectly applies force to or causes an impact on the body of another, or

(b) causes another to believe on reasonable grounds that he or she is likely immediately to be subjected to any such force or impact,

without the consent of the other.

(2) In subsection (1) (a), “force” includes—

(a) application of heat, light, electric current, noise or any other form of energy, and

(b) application of matter in solid liquid or gaseous form.

(3) No such offence is committed if the force or impact, not being intended or likely to cause injury, is in the circumstances such as is generally acceptable in the ordinary conduct of daily life and the defendant does not know or believe that it is in fact unacceptable to the other person.

Bouncers throw hundreds of people out of clubs/pubs, chippers etc every week in Ireland pre covid and I haven't come across many cases of assault against too many bouncers, im sure some of them deserve to be in court as well for assaults on customers of these premises.

14-04-2021 4:16pm

pgj2015 wrote: »

2.—
(3) No such offence is committed if the force or impact, not being intended or likely to cause injury, is in the circumstances such as is generally acceptable in the ordinary conduct of daily life and the defendant does not know or believe that it is in fact unacceptable to the other person.

Bouncers throw hundreds of people out of clubs/pubs, chippers etc every week in Ireland pre covid and I haven't come across many cases of assault against too many bouncers, im sure some of them deserve to be in court as well for assaults on customers of these premises.

of course, there is a defence to assault, it's detaining someone (it seems to be loosely defined) that is more troublesome.

But back to the assault, it's trickier than it looks. Think about how your above highlighted section applies during Covid, for example. Touching someone isn't considered acceptable, or even coming too close to them, in the ordinary course of life.

pgj2015 · 14-04-2021 4:46pm

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

of course, there is a defence to assault, it's detaining someone (it seems to be loosely defined) that is more troublesome.

But back to the assault, it's trickier than it looks. Think about how your above highlighted section applies during Covid, for example. Touching someone isn't considered acceptable, or even coming too close to them, in the ordinary course of life.

The above hasn't changed the definition of assault in Irish law. it might be bad manners to get too close to someone during a pandemic but it isn't assault.

Graces7 · 14-04-2021 5:01pm

Maybe the man was deaf? Just a thought.

Oranage2 · 14-04-2021 5:03pm

Should ask him to leave then refuse service. Nothing much else they can do.

B.A._Baracus · 14-04-2021 5:49pm

JackTC wrote: »

Earlier today in Tesco a lad came in with his hoody up (Mid-Late 30's, looked harmless).

The security guard asked him to put his hood down and the customer refused and began to shop. The guard continued to follow him around the store asking him to put his hood down and the customer kept refusing.

He only bought a handful of things and left. Should he have taken down the hood or was the security guard out of line?

Can't believe this thread is 6 pages long :P
Like, the reason why security guards ask to pull the hood off is because they don't want someone robbing/shoplifting without showing that mug for the cameras. Security guard has to be seen as doing his job too.

So your man refusing to take off his hood is being a t*at. I get it, who wants to be bothered when you're out getting a few pieces in a shop - but security man is gonna justify his job. So either tell him to f-off and go else where or take off the poxy hood. Instead of this passive aggressive "well i am gonna do what i want, my rights, you have no right blah blah" bs

Hamsterchops · 14-04-2021 6:51pm

If the security guard asks you to put down your hoodie, then why wouldn't you?

15-04-2021 1:43pm

Hamsterchops wrote: »

If the security guard asks you to put down your hoodie, then why wouldn't you?

"I know my rights"

The One Doctor · 15-04-2021 2:31pm

JackTC wrote: »

Earlier today in Tesco a lad came in with his hoody up (Mid-Late 30's, looked harmless).

The security guard asked him to put his hood down and the customer refused and began to shop. The guard continued to follow him around the store asking him to put his hood down and the customer kept refusing.

He only bought a handful of things and left. Should he have taken down the hood or was the security guard out of line?

Were you following them both around the shop?

Badly Drunk Boy · 15-04-2021 2:58pm

forestgirl wrote: »

The man could have a serious head injury and may be keeping it covered especially with covid around

Then he really shouldn't be out shopping if he has a serious head injury, especially with Covid around. I'd suggest he asks a friend or family member to get him a few bits for him.

greasepalm wrote: »

Early this morning was bitterly cold and is possible he was frozen?

I can see why security guard had an issue as might have been worried ?

Right or wrong as it all happens in a blink of an eye.

If it was mid summer then he would/should not have his hoodie up.

That considerate security man was probably thinking "It's so cold this morning, I think that lad should taken down his hoodie as it'll be no good to him when he goes back outside, especially after walking around this warm supermarket.".

Security guards: the unsung heroes of our times.

Fandymo · 15-04-2021 3:54pm

dotsman wrote: »

Ideally, the scumbag should have been beaten from the store.

However, this is Ireland, where security guards are the ones who get fcuked over if the poor criminal has their feelings hurt.

What crime was committed??

ebbsy · 15-04-2021 3:56pm

The security guard should have dowsed him in water and then jabbed him with a cattle prod.

JackTC · 15-04-2021 4:11pm

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Can't believe this thread is 6 pages long :P
Like, the reason why security guards ask to pull the hood off is because they don't want someone robbing/shoplifting without showing that mug for the cameras.

You can't see the mug of someone wearing a Burka.

It can be hard to make out someone wearing a hat with their mask.

NSAman · 15-04-2021 8:13pm

Fandymo wrote: »

What crime was committed??

Bad haircut!

ShatterAlan · 15-04-2021 8:36pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Okay... and..?

Did you read the post I replied to?

ShatterAlan · 15-04-2021 8:42pm

85603 wrote: »

private business, they should have told him to lose the hood or fck right off.

by rights they shouldn't have served him, but i suppose sometimes it just not worth the hassle.

Why shouldn't they have served him?

Incident in Tesco today

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