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OWL Energy Monitors

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    #2
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Kaldo wrote: »
    Hi lads,

    Does anyone have any of these energy monitors?

    Is it worthy?

    Thanks

    I have one although I dont use it these days. Worked quite well.

    They are not a true wattmeter, but an ammeter and assumes 230v, but that is accurate enough for non billing uses.


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    #3
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,432 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    Bruthal wrote: »
    They are not a true wattmeter, but an ammeter and assumes 230v, but that is accurate enough for non billing uses.
    Not true, you can set the voltage in 10V increments.


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    #4
    The J Stands for Jay
    Registered Users Posts: 5,669 ✭✭✭The J Stands for Jay


    What are they like in day to day use? Can they alert you to potential issues, or do you need to check them? And is there any way of seeing trends and graphs, either through the device itself, a mobile app or a data sump to excel?

    I vaguely recall hearing once that ESB networks had an issue with these being clamped inside the meter box. Is that true?


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    #5
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,432 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    I have a really ancient one that doesn't have any connectivity, but the newer ones do. Check out their web page here ... https://www.theowl.com/


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    #6
    10-10-20
    Registered Users Posts: 6,762 ✭✭✭10-10-20


    McGaggs wrote: »
    What are they like in day to day use? Can they alert you to potential issues, or do you need to check them? And is there any way of seeing trends and graphs, either through the device itself, a mobile app or a data sump to excel?

    I vaguely recall hearing once that ESB networks had an issue with these being clamped inside the meter box. Is that true?

    There were issues in the past (like 10 years ago), but I have had a clamp installed now for years without issues. They know what they are at this stage.

    You can data-dump from some alright:
    https://www.theowl.com/index.php/energy-monitors/standalone-monitors/owl-usb/


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    #7
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,432 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    That's a USB based one and I think that'd get pretty tiresome after a while to keep connecting and disconnecting it to download the data. They also have this https://www.theowl.com/index.php/energy-monitors/remote-monitoring/intuition-e/ which is cloud based.


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    #8
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,432 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    10-10-20 wrote: »
    There were issues in the past (like 10 years ago), but I have had a clamp installed now for years without issues. They know what they are at this stage.
    Yes, back then they were a bit of a novelty and were viewed with a bit of suspicion, but they're quite common now.


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    #9
    Jayzee.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 63 ✭✭Jayzee.


    Alun wrote: »
    Not true, you can set the voltage in 10V increments.

    Why would you though?

    Nominal 230v here


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    #10
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,432 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    Jayzee. wrote: »
    Why would you though?

    Nominal 230v here
    Well the default, on mine at least, is 240V not 230V, so if my voltage was 230V I'd have to change it.

    However the voltage where I am is a constant 240V anyway, so I don't have a need to change it.

    "Nominal" is a very broad term in this context.


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    #11
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Alun wrote: »
    Not true, you can set the voltage in 10V increments.

    OK, just as purely a matter of interest, so my 230v was an example. But,,,,,,

    They are not a true watt meter which is the point.

    If you plug in a 2kw heater and the true voltage at the house is 230v, the owl monitor will read 8.69 amps, (assuming it is very accurate), and will show the 2000 watts

    Now if you have the monitor set at 220v, what amps will it read,,, yes,, 8.69, but now it will display 1910 watts even though it is actually 2000 being used.

    Or if you have the monitor set at 230v, but the voltage in the house drops to 220v, the owl monitor will display 1910 watts. Actual watts being used by it will be 1825 watts.

    They are fine for indicating usage.


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    #12
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    McGaggs wrote: »
    What are they like in day to day use? Can they alert you to potential issues, or do you need to check them? And is there any way of seeing trends and graphs, either through the device itself, a mobile app or a data sump to excel?

    I vaguely recall hearing once that ESB networks had an issue with these being clamped inside the meter box. Is that true?

    I had my one clamped in the meter box. Technically its probably against rules, but never had a problem.


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    #13
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,432 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    Bruthal wrote: »
    OK, just as purely a matter of interest, so my 230v was an example. But,,,,,,

    They are not a true watt meter which is the point.

    If you plug in a 2kw heater and the true voltage at the house is 230v, the owl monitor will read 8.69 amps, (assuming it is very accurate), and will show the 2000 watts

    Now if you have the monitor set at 220v, what amps will it read,,, yes,, 8.69, but now it will display 1910 watts even though it is actually 2000 being used.

    Or if you have the monitor set at 230v, but the voltage in the house drops to 220v, the owl monitor will display 1910 watts. Actual watts being used by it will be 1825 watts.

    They are fine for indicating usage.
    I know perfectly well how they work, thanks. Sure, if you set them the wrong voltage they'll show incorrect power usage, that's obvious. As for your other point, is it common for the voltage to drop by 10V here? I don't know, it's not something that is an issue where I am.


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    #14
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Alun wrote: »
    I know perfectly well how they work, thanks.
    Great, so you do know they are an ammeter so, and not a wattmeter, which was the point I was making.
    Also, the answer might be useful to others not so perfectly well up.
    Sure, if you set them the wrong voltage they'll show incorrect power usage, that's obvious. As for your other point, is it common for the voltage to drop by 10V here? I don't know, it's not something that is an issue where I am.
    Is it common for it to be an even 220, 230, 240?

    All irrelevant anyway, for someone who knows perfectly well how power measurement works, and why it is not measured properly without knowing actual voltage and current in phase.

    If I plug in a 0.5kw motor, with pf of 0.5, the owl monitor will show 1kw (assuming voltage is at set at actual voltage), but the true wattmeter will only show 500 watts, and the billing will only be for the 500 watts.

    So it is assuming a selected voltage, and also showing VA based on that, rather than true watts.


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    #15
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,432 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    Yes, I know the difference between VA and W, and I know what a power factor is also. Let's just leave it there, I've got more pressing things to do.


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    #16
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Alun wrote: »
    Let's just leave it there, I've got more pressing things to do.

    So, go do them.


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    #17
    John.G
    Registered Users Posts: 3,474 ✭✭✭John.G


    Do the new smart meters now being installed measure the true power, VI*PF?


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    #18
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,537 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Alun wrote: »
    Sure, if you set them the wrong voltage they'll show incorrect power usage, that's obvious.

    The issue here is that the Owl energy meter will assume that the supply is 230V (assuming it is set to 230V) all of the time, in reality this is not the case. A watt meter will take account of the voltage variations.

    In my own home I regularly see 240V and it sometimes dips to 218V despite the fact that the nominal voltage is 230V. I have a high quality calibrated Fluke test instrument so I believe these values to be correct.

    As the load profile changes the supply voltage can change. Automatic tap changers are used to deal with this.

    As for your other point, is it common for the voltage to drop by 10V here?

    Yes, it is very common. You tend to see voltage fluctuations much more in rural areas.

    As has already been pointed out the other difference with the Owl from a Watt meter is that there is no allowance for power factor.

    So even though they are useful gadgets (I have one myself) they should not be confused with true watt meters.


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    #19
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,537 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    John.G wrote: »
    Do the new smart meters now being installed measure the true power, VI*PF?

    Yes, even the "old" mechanical ESB meters are true watt meters.


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    #20
    autumnalcore
    Registered Users Posts: 827 ✭✭✭autumnalcore


    New kamstrupp smart meter has Active, Reactive and Apparent registers will be interesting to see if they do anything with that data in the long run.


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    #21
    John.G
    Registered Users Posts: 3,474 ✭✭✭John.G


    I wonder do they give the "current" output in watts, my old 1972 (220V) Ferranti Ireland meter was/is very useful in determining power, 1 kwh = 225 disc revolutions so one could measure even very low power usage items by counting 5 or 10 revs of the disc.


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    #22
    stiofan85
    Registered Users Posts: 505 ✭✭✭stiofan85


    Kaldo wrote: »
    Hi lads,

    Does anyone have any of these energy monitors?

    Is it worthy?

    Thanks

    Had one in last house. Was great to get bills down. Became a bit obsessed with finding all the base loads -even a lamp left on. Probably going to get another.

    Don't rely on it to predict your bills, use it to spot high usage and be more efficient. You'll save what you spend over a few billing cycles if you use it right.

    If you can't set the voltage right it's a relative reading day to day. If you you want to predict your bills... Read your meter


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