READ MOD WARNING POST #1 BEFORE POSTING- Joshua Vs Klitschko

walshb · 10-04-2017 2:47pm

Joshua Points

nacho libre wrote: »

Klitschko in the same situation will finish him. I think Wlad wins by ko in round 4.

You can't know that. Wlad is so very cautious that I wouldn't be too confident in him finishing AJ had he landed a similar shot.

Wlad beats his opponents down. He is not a Mike Tyson type finisher....

Morrison J · 10-04-2017 2:49pm

Klitschko Points

pac_man wrote: »

Malik Scott said he more than held his own with Wlad. Wlad himself said it was his best sparring partner in years and Radchenko said he looked pretty good. I'd expect Wlad to get the better of him given Joshua was a novice (and probably still is) and Wlad was the king of the division.

I don't know about Dubois but them other two lads can crack, so I wouldn't be surprised if he got wobbled, they're big guys afterall. Does it illustrate he has a dodgy chin, not really. Like alot of sparring stories they need some context. Maybe one of the lads came in after Joshua done 9 rounds previous? Maybe Joshua was working on technique or defense.

Evander Holyfield used to get his ass handed to him by prospects in his preparations before Tyson. When you have the workload of a training camp behind you and your sparring partner is fresh, it's easy to see why a prospect can get the better of a champion. I think you're reading too much into it.

This has escalated far too much..I'm genuinely not reading into it that much at all. I just thought it was an interesting listen, that's all. I think your reading too much into what I'm saying, if that makes sense..

The original point is that Dave Allen who has sparred with both fighters doesn't see any way Joshua beats Wlad. If he had jumped in with Joshua after Joshua had already done 9 rounds then I believe Allen would've said so and take that into account. Maybe Joshua has improved massively since then but that all remains to be seen.

Getting an insight aside from the Sky propaganda machine is nice every now and again.

Morrison J · 10-04-2017 2:55pm

Klitschko Points

walshb wrote: »

You can't know that. Wlad is so very cautious that I wouldn't be too confident in him finishing AJ had he landed a similar shot.

Wlad beats his opponents down. He is not a Mike Tyson type finisher....

I think you're basing far too much off the Tyson Fury fight. Wlad is a huge puncher. Has a number of big one punch knockdowns and has not been afraid to go in for the kill when he has his opponent hurt in the past.

If Wlad lands with the same hook Whyte did then I'm very confident Joshua, or any other heavyweight, will be on the canvas. Or at least if they're wobbled, Wlad will pick his shots well enough to finish it off, something Whyte failed to do.

MotherTeresa · 10-04-2017 2:57pm

Draw

nacho libre wrote: »

The key point is in that situation a better boxer would likely have finished Joshua off. Whyte is not world class.

Klitschko in the same situation will finish him. I think Wlad wins by ko in round 4.

No chance of that. For rounds 1-7 Klitchko will have his guard up and fight defensively, same as he did with Fury. He won't risk being caught by a Joshua hook or jab on the counter. Therefore his jab will be out of range for the first 4 rounds, a knockout won't be possible to connect. They have the same reach, so he is going to keep just out of connection range all through those 4 rounds, and on to say 7 when he hopes Joshua will gas from his relentless work rate.
Klitschko will just try to grab and hold, push down, tire and frustrate Joshua; and then at that point try to jab on the break. I don't see any knockouts happening in the first 4 rounds.
Its more likely it will be a 12 round slugging session like Whyte v Chisora.
Both tiring from 7-12, with Klitschko trying to hold Joshua, and Joshua trying to jab and hook him.
I think it's Joshua win on points, or TKO in the later rounds.
If Klitschko was at his peak at say 30 against a 27 year old Joshua, then yes I could see a round four KO from him. But at 41? 12 rounds of defense and holding is more likely. He didn't try to KO Fury in round 4, and I don't see him trying to KO Joshua either.

nacho libre · 10-04-2017 3:00pm

Klitschko Points

walshb wrote: »

You can't know that. Wlad is so very cautious that I wouldn't be too confident in him finishing AJ had he landed a similar shot.

Wlad beats his opponents down. He is not a Mike Tyson type finisher....

He doesn't need to be Mike Tyson like. He can finish Joshua via a culmination of punches set up by the jab.
In previous fights when he had his opponent seriously hurt, he dispatched them with two- three punch combination. He will fight cautiously against Joshua, but if he seriously hurts Joshua with one of those stiff jabs, then i think he will finish him.

Regarding the sparring, there is context as Pacman says, but if these stories keep coming out there must be a grain of truth to the idea that he can be hurt.

walshb · 10-04-2017 3:06pm

Joshua Points

No, he doesn't need to be Mike Tyson, but it would help. If AJ recovers as quickly as he did vs. Whyte, then Wald would need to be a bit more Tyson like to close the show. That is my point. Whyte followed up quickly, but AJ recovered quickly and was firing back. Wlad likely doesn't rush in to finish like Whyte did, giving AJ time to compose and recover.

nacho libre · 10-04-2017 3:10pm

Klitschko Points

MotherTeresa wrote: »

n points, or TKO in the later rounds.
If Klitschko was at his peak at say 30 against a 27 year old Joshua, then yes I could see a round four KO from him. But at 41? 12 rounds of defense and holding is more likely. He didn't try to KO Fury in round 4, and I don't see him trying to KO Joshua either.

He didn't try to ko Fury, because he wasn't able to hit Fury, he was afraid of getting caught, this was due to Fury's head and footwork, as well as his size, strength and reach. Joshua has the size and strength, but not the skill. Yes, he has the power, but that is no good if you can't land.
So I see Klitsckho frustrating Joshua and exposing his lack of skill at this level, which leads to a stoppage.

Perhaps the round i predicted is premature, but i still think Wlad wins by a ko or tko, rather than it going 12 rounds.

Morrison J · 10-04-2017 3:11pm

Klitschko Points

MotherTeresa wrote: »

He didn't try to KO Fury in round 4, and I don't see him trying to KO Joshua either.

People really need to try remove the Fury fight from their minds when previewing this one. Completely different fights.

I think Wlad will retreat on the back foot all fight and pick AJ off with his jab before eventually walking him on to something big. He'll have success doing it because AJ doesn't move his head. Fury was the exact opposite. Probably the best mover in the division and Wlad didn't know how to counteract that. He won't face the same problem against AJ who is as stiff as they come.

nacho libre · 10-04-2017 3:14pm

Klitschko Points

walshb wrote: »

No, he doesn't need to be Mike Tyson, but it would help. If AJ recovers as quickly as he did vs. Whyte, then Wald would need to be a bit more Tyson like to close the show. That is my point. Whyte followed up quickly, but AJ recovered quickly and was firing back. Wlad likely doesn't rush in to finish like Whyte did, giving AJ time to compose and recover.

The thing is Wlad hits harder than Whyte. It was a great punch by Whyte, however Wlad can hurt you with punches that don't seem to be as powerful, but in fact are. If Wlad hurts Joshua like that, i don't think Joshua will be able to recover in time.

nacho libre · 10-04-2017 3:17pm

Klitschko Points

Morrison J wrote: »

Interesting listen this, interview with Dave Allen.

Talks about his spars with Joshua. Doesn't rate him massively. Thinks Wlad beats him comfortably in a round or two and says Fury would beat him with one hand behind his back. Hints at the fact that Joshua is chinny too. Says he's not world class.

Compares Dubois to Frank Bruno as well.

Comes on at 22.45 mins in.

They do makes some good points about sky, but it seemed a lot of their discussion was overly negative, it seemed to me they were letting personal feelings get in the way of an objective analysis of some of the fighters they were talking about.

walshb · 10-04-2017 3:34pm

Joshua Points

Morrison J wrote: »

I think you're basing far too much off the Tyson Fury fight. Wlad is a huge puncher. Has a number of big one punch knockdowns and has not been afraid to go in for the kill when he has his opponent hurt in the past.

If Wlad lands with the same hook Whyte did then I'm very confident Joshua, or any other heavyweight, will be on the canvas. Or at least if they're wobbled, Wlad will pick his shots well enough to finish it off, something Whyte failed to do.

The Fury fight he threw next to nothing. I am not basing it off that farce. I am basing it off Wlad through his career. He has mostly been a safety first fighter who doesn't take too many chances. He is not a killer-finisher.

MotherTeresa · 10-04-2017 3:36pm

Draw

George Foreman has backed Joshua to win. Enough said.
I would rate his opinion over the likes of Allen as credible.
Reason being, he won the world heavyweight title in his 40's.
So if anyone would be backing Klitschko winning again at 41 it would be him; but he isn't.
And that is very telling. I have said it before, youth beat's age when it comes to 27 v 41.

MotherTeresa · 10-04-2017 3:42pm

Draw

Morrison J wrote: »

This has escalated far too much..I'm genuinely not reading into it that much at all. I just thought it was an interesting listen, that's all. I think your reading too much into what I'm saying, if that makes sense..

The original point is that Dave Allen who has sparred with both fighters doesn't see any way Joshua beats Wlad. If he had jumped in with Joshua after Joshua had already done 9 rounds then I believe Allen would've said so and take that into account. Maybe Joshua has improved massively since then but that all remains to be seen.

Getting an insight aside from the Sky propaganda machine is nice every now and again.

Propaganda+Sky=PPV sales.
It is not a credible interview, when Allen was paid to give (the desired) opinion.
I prefer fact to propaganda myself.
George Foreman backing Joshua for example. No propaganda, and not being paid to say it either.

Too Tough To Die · 10-04-2017 3:46pm

Klitschko Points

walshb wrote: »

The Fury fight he threw next to nothing. I am not basing it off that farce. I am basing it off Wlad through his career. He has mostly been a safety first fighter who doesn't take too many chances. He is not a killer-finisher.

He is a killer finisher, when he has an opponent hurt. Who has he let off the hook? You're right in saying he's cautious, but that has little bearing on his ability to finish an opponent.

walshb · 10-04-2017 3:48pm

Joshua Points

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

He is a killer finisher, when he has an opponent hurt. Who has he let off the hook? You're right in saying he's cautious, but that has little bearing on his ability to finish an opponent.

Yes, hurt and ready to go. Little different than briefly wobbled, like AJ was against Whyte. That is what I am debating. There is a difference in being a killer when your opponent is clearly ready to go as opposed to briefly stunned....AJ was briefly stunned by a shot. It's not like he was Tommy Morrisson vs. Mercer or Michael Bentt.

Make no mistake, Wlad will only really pounce with intent should he have AJ in real trouble.

Morrison J · 10-04-2017 3:50pm

Klitschko Points

MotherTeresa wrote: »

Propaganda+Sky=PPV sales.
It is not a credible interview, when Allen was paid to give (the desired) opinion.
I prefer fact to propaganda myself.
George Foreman backing Joshua for example. No propaganda, and not being paid to say it either.

Allen was not paid to give that opinion. It's just from a podcast that he was on last night. Zero propaganda. You're really trying to make it into some that it's not.

I'd rather the opinion of someone who has sparred with both than George Foreman who has fought neither. Foreman also picked Pacquiao to beat Mayweather. Wouldn't hold his opinions in that high regard.

Too Tough To Die · 10-04-2017 3:55pm

Klitschko Points

walshb wrote: »

Yes, hurt and ready to go. Little different than briefly wobbled, like AJ was against Whyte. That is what I am debating. There is a difference in being a killer when your opponent is clearly ready to go as opposed to briefly stunned....AJ was briefly stunned by a shot. It's not like he was Tommy Morrisson vs. Mercer or Michael Bentt.

Make no mistake, Wlad will only really pounce with intent should he have AJ in real trouble.

For a fighter of Wlad's calibre, AJ was ready to go there. That is exactly where Wlad comes out of his shell and starts to lay it on. Mind you, if he landed the shot Whyte did i'm not sure AJ would even still be standing.

walshb · 10-04-2017 4:02pm

Joshua Points

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

For a fighter of Wlad's calibre, AJ was ready to go there. That is exactly where Wlad comes out of his shell and starts to lay it on. Mind you, if he landed the shot Whyte did i'm not sure AJ would even still be standing.

If he landed the shot.....He doesn't throw that type of shot...Watch it again.

AJ was for a split second "ready to go." But not ready (clearly) to go like you know what I mean....

Mike Tyson was "ready to go" in 1989 against Bruno after Bruno landed that left hook in rd 1.

MotherTeresa · 10-04-2017 4:19pm

Draw

Morrison J wrote: »

Allen was not paid to give that opinion. It's just from a podcast that he was on last night. Zero propaganda. You're really trying to make it into some that it's not.

I'd rather the opinion of someone who has sparred with both than George Foreman who has fought neither. Foreman also picked Pacquiao to beat Mayweather. Wouldn't hold his opinions in that high regard.

Yeah, but Allen doesn't make really good low fat grills though does he?
Lean, mean, fat reducing machines.
I would rather have a Foreman burger over an Allen one any day.

Morrison J · 10-04-2017 4:24pm

Klitschko Points

MotherTeresa wrote: »

Yeah, but Allen doesn't make really good low fat grills though does he?
Lean, mean, fat reducing machines.
I would rather have a Foreman burger over an Allen one any day.

Fair point.

Too Tough To Die · 10-04-2017 4:35pm

Klitschko Points

walshb wrote: »

If he landed the shot.....He doesn't throw that type of shot...Watch it again.

AJ was for a split second "ready to go." But not ready (clearly) to go like you know what I mean....

Mike Tyson was "ready to go" in 1989 against Bruno after Bruno landed that left hook in rd 1.

AJ was hurt against Whyte and Whyte sensing it, got a rush of blood to the head and smothered his own work. Whyte is euro level at a push. Wlad is elite, and being the cautious type is more measured and much more efficient in those scenarios. By Wlad's standards, AJ was as you say very much 'ready to go'.

MotherTeresa · 10-04-2017 4:35pm

Draw

I will tell you how much of a fanboy I am.
I even wear an altitude mask like my hero Joshua when I am grilling my Foreman burgers out of respect.
Not to mention my Under Armour Y-fronts to complete the look.

MotherTeresa · 10-04-2017 4:42pm

Draw

Say what you like about Joshua, but he is looking ready for the weigh in, in his latest training camp picture.

walshb · 10-04-2017 4:43pm

Joshua Points

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

AJ was hurt against Whyte and Whyte sensing it, got a rush of blood to the head and smothered his own work. Whyte is euro level at a push. Wlad is elite, and being the cautious type is more measured and much more efficient in those scenarios. By Wlad's standards, AJ was as you say very much 'ready to go'.

Ready to go for a split second. So, by Wlad's standards not at all ready to go. Unless you are saying that AJ was out on his feet all over the place and in real trouble? He wasn't from what I saw. And if that is what you saw then you need specsavers.

HigginsJ · 10-04-2017 4:45pm

Joshua Points

Wlad has some serious questions to answer, aside from the Fury fight he also wasn't amazing in the Jennings fight before that. He is a 41 year old who won't have fought in 17 months, that has to be a concern as well.

I do like AJ and think he will win this via KO in the 7 - 9 round range. This AJ wouldn't have beaten a 36 year old Wlad but the evidence from the last couple of fights, time out of the ring and age makes me side with AJ.

walshb · 10-04-2017 4:51pm

Joshua Points

BTW, I am not certain but wasn't PPV with Sky always 21 euro or thereabouts? It is 24.95 for this....pr1cks!

Too Tough To Die · 10-04-2017 4:56pm

Klitschko Points

walshb wrote: »

Ready to go for a split second. So, by Wlad's standards not at all ready to go. Unless you are saying that AJ was out on his feet all over the place and in real trouble? He wasn't from what I saw. And if that is what you saw then you need specsavers.

Whyte caught him with a hook that stiffened his legs. He then threw 10 unanswered punches before AJ's head had cleared somewhat.

That has been more than enough of a window for Wlad to capitalise throughout his career. Maybe it will be different with the 42 year old version of Wlad, but i am of the mind that an elite boxer like Wlad would've landed something significant in that 5-10 seconds it took AJ's head to clear. A peak Wlad would certainly have stopped AJ in that scenario.

MotherTeresa · 10-04-2017 5:07pm

Draw

HigginsJ wrote: »

Wlad has some serious questions to answer, aside from the Fury fight he also wasn't amazing in the Jennings fight before that. He is a 41 year old who won't have fought in 17 months, that has to be a concern as well.

I do like AJ and think he will win this via KO in the 7 - 9 round range. This AJ wouldn't have beaten a 36 year old Wlad but the evidence from the last couple of fights, time out of the ring and age makes me side with AJ.

Good point. A lot of debate based on his poor performance against Fury.
But I noticed he wasn't as good as his peak years against Jennings too.
His timing, and reactions weren't as sharp. Looking at his fights at 30 he was just sharper all round. The timing, footwork, head movement; all were perfect technique. But from Jennings onwards one could really see the decline, I think more than anything it's just age slowing him down. Don't get me wrong, he is in incredible shape for 41. And at 30 he would beat Joshua at 27 no question. But he isn't just fighting Joshua in this, he is also fighting father time. Honestly I think we will see a similar fight to the Fury one from him, grab and hold, defensive, and afraid to engage his jab for fear of getting caught on the counter.
Yes his jab would KO Joshua still, but the thing is; he won't get within range to connect it cleanly.
Joshua's head movement and footwork isn't the greatest; that is a given. But he is no fool either, and won't just come walking straight onto a Klitschko jab either. He has the right lunging style and stance on the attack to jab and hook then get out. All it will take is one hand drop from Klitschko when tired from rounds 7-12 and its a TKO or KO win for Joshua.
One thing Joshua has is power on that right hand jab. 9/10 times he will be hitting the side of Klitschko's glove with it. But all it takes is 1/10 to connect it and he has won. Maybe he won't KO or TKO him, but it will be enough points on the judges scorecards.
I really don't see the defensive style of Klitschko coupled with his grab and hold, getting the same points over the 12 rounds. The reality is Joshua can throw lots of punches that won't connect, but the judges will score that aggression favourably over Klitschko's defensive style.
Even if he does grab and hold him, he won't be pushing him back and down like smaller opponents. Joshua is the same height and weight, so if anything he will be pushing Klitschko into the corners and onto the ropes; which will be very dangerous for him.
Once the ring is closed off, Joshua can unload more right jabs and hooks.
Bad head movement, bad footwork; won't matter in the corner or the ropes then. One hook or one jab will finish Klitschko.

MotherTeresa · 10-04-2017 5:14pm

Draw

walshb wrote: »

BTW, I am not certain but wasn't PPV with Sky always 21 euro or thereabouts? It is 24.95 for this....pr1cks!

Whatever it is, Eddie Hearn will be upgrading his Rolex Skydweller to a President after thanks to the revenue. Those 90K ticket sales will probably mean a new Bentley GT too. I wonder if he will give the ref or judges any Oscar style goody bags (bungs) too?

nacho libre · 10-04-2017 5:22pm

Klitschko Points

walshb wrote: »

Ready to go for a split second. So, by Wlad's standards not at all ready to go. Unless you are saying that AJ was out on his feet all over the place and in real trouble? He wasn't from what I saw. And if that is what you saw then you need specsavers.

The difference is in that scenario Wlad would not give him the time to recover. An elite level fighter like him would have profited from that opportunity. Wlad is cautious, but he is ruthlessly efficient when he knows an opponent is hurt. He wont ko Joshua with one punch while trading bombs, it will be due to the cumulative effect of stiff jabs, that eventually leaves an opening for Wlad to connect with a big shot.

walshb · 10-04-2017 5:33pm

Joshua Points

nacho libre wrote: »

The difference is in that scenario Wlad would not give him the time to recover. An elite level fighter like him would have profited from that opportunity. Wlad is cautious, but he is ruthlessly efficient when he knows an opponent is hurt.

But that is my point. Knows when hurt. They need to be quite hurt for Wlad to rush in to kill. Are you saying AJ was at that stage vs. Whyte?

MotherTeresa · 10-04-2017 5:38pm

Draw

pac_man wrote: »

Joshua just wants to be a billionaire and stay humble.

That made me laugh when Klitschko tweeted about him being a wannabee billionaire. Then he made it worse by saying how many of the 90K are billionaires? He doesn't really do trash talk does he?
A boring respect press conference, with a Haye/Bellew style love in for his little bro. And then he tries to ramp up some fake trash talk on Twitter to boost PPV sales. Yawn.
Joshua has been well-groomed by the Hearn marketing machine as the next Bruno/Lewis. The UK media are lapping him up as their boy done good.
Drug dealer to Olympian to World Champion. Rags to riches.
I don't blame him for wanting to be a billionaire like Mayweather, and putting on the humble act.
He is no fool, and neither is Hearn either. He knows his marketability is dependent on his clean unbeaten sheet. As soon as he loses to Wilder or Parker his PPV sales drop like a stone. So Hearn has been very careful with who he faces and at what time.
The other thing is keeping him on social media showing the UKAD testing, while the UKAD hearings still hang over the Fury's.
He won't risk flying him to American and WADA testing to fight Wilder though, that would be silly.
Anyway, I am sure our humble golden boy got that big mass just from all the protein shakes and genetics.

MotherTeresa · 10-04-2017 5:51pm

Draw

pac_man wrote: »

Agree it's a completely different fight but am finding it hard just to ignore it.
There was times in the Fury fight in which he was in range but Wlad wouldn't let his hands go.
There was no real reason for that.

Agreed. Its hard to ignore any boxers last fight as evidence of where they are right now, and where they will be in their next fight.
They say a picture speaks a thousand words, and its true. For me this one totally sums up that fight. For the first time I saw a look of fear on Klitschko's face. He actually looked scared of Fury, and I think at that point he knew he could not win.

Too Tough To Die · 10-04-2017 6:02pm

Klitschko Points

walshb wrote: »

But that is my point. Knows when hurt. They need to be quite hurt for Wlad to rush in to kill. Are you saying AJ was at that stage vs. Whyte?

What do you think Wlad would've done in that situation, backed off because he wasn't hurt enough? That's ludicrous!

nacho libre · 10-04-2017 6:05pm

Klitschko Points

walshb wrote: »

But that is my point. Knows when hurt. They need to be quite hurt for Wlad to rush in to kill. Are you saying AJ was at that stage vs. Whyte?

No. What I am saying is he would make the most out of that moment, he would have capitalised on it. Whyte was not good enough to. He missed several follow up punches. Wlad would have been more calculating and clinical if given that opportunity.

MotherTeresa · 10-04-2017 6:06pm

Draw

pac_man wrote: »

Agree that the personalty is fabricated to look good but he's having the last laugh with all the money he makes from sponsership deals.I can't warm to the chap but I won't let that cloud my judgement of him as a fighter even if he is still a bit unproven.

I know you were saying things in jest about his size but you might want to look at the forum charter that is a stickied thread in the forum. This site is a bit sensitive when you directly or indirectly accuse someone on PED use.

Under Armour are no fools as they also sponsor Andy Murray, but when I saw the Dubai firm sponsoring the altitude mask he wears; I thought that is a step too far.
Listen, it was a joke about the UKAD testing. He is passing the blood tests; and is the most tested UK boxer of them all. So that is good enough for me.
For what its worth, I think there is some truth in the interview Fury gave to Kugan regarding his own drug use. OK much of it was humour, but some of it was true. He was saying he thought every athlete (boxers included) are on something. Maybe not drugs, maybe not steroids, etc. But something to enhance their performance. I think there is some truth in that, whether its Sharapova and her asthma medication etc.
But anyway, boxers are some of the most tested athletes on the planet, and for the record I think he is clean. I just think his bodybuilder shape (compared to the typical heavyweight) makes him more prone to probing/speculation about it.
With regard to the humble thing though, its a cheesy as Klitchko getting in the ring and hyping up their fight Buffer style.
He may as well have said; lets get ready to ruuuuuuuuuuuuummmble!

MotherTeresa · 10-04-2017 6:14pm

Draw

nacho libre wrote: »

No. What I am saying is he would make the most out of that moment, he would have capitalised on it. Whyte was not good enough to. He missed several follow up punches. Wlad would have been more calculating and clinical if given that opportunity.

It is true that Whyte didn't have the skill level to finish the fight when he rocked him with that connection. Klitschko in that same situation has the skills and experience to finish a fighter when he has been rocked. This is why I think Whyte and Chisora will never be more than British level boxers. Fury, Parker, Joshua; have the skills to take it to world level in comparison. Each have their weaknesses; but when it comes to that natural killer instinct to finish a fight they all have it. Klitschko also has this, he knows when to unload that jab and finish them off. OK maybe at 41 he can't do it like he was 30, but he could do it and do it well in his peak years.

nacho libre · 10-04-2017 6:28pm

Klitschko Points

pac_man wrote: »

Agree it's a completely different fight but am finding it hard just to ignore it.
There was times in the Fury fight in which he was in range but Wlad wouldn't let his hands go.
There was no real reason for that.

I think there was a reason he was afraid of getting countered. He had lost confidence in his ability to hit Fury.

walshb · 10-04-2017 7:22pm

Joshua Points

How many times did Wlad have Povetkin on Queer Street yet still content to stink it out and win on points? Yet the far deadlier offensive AJ probably gets taken out because he may get briefly wobbled? Utter nonsense. Wlad would not have went for any kill had he wobbled AJ like Whyte did.

Too Tough To Die · 10-04-2017 7:48pm

Klitschko Points

walshb wrote: »

How many times did Wlad have Povetkin on Queer Street yet still content to stink it out and win on points? Yet the far deadlier offensive AJ probably gets taken out because he may get briefly wobbled? Utter nonsense. Wlad would not have went for any kill had he wobbled AJ like Whyte did.

Any time Povetkin was hurt he either hit the canvas or closed the distance, contributing to the ugly spectacle. AJ was clueless and backed away with his chin in the air. You think Wlad would've backed off because he wasn't hurt enough? Also, early indications suggest Povetkin has a better than AJ.

blade1 · 10-04-2017 7:52pm

Joshua Points

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

AJ was clueless and backed away with his chin in the air.

And that's why i feel that shot done him more good than harm.
Put him in a position he was never in before.
He should have learnt something from it.

megadodge · 10-04-2017 8:04pm

Draw

For those posters talking about Vlad's "killer instinct", could you please give an example where the instant he had someone even slightly in trouble he finished him off? He absolutely does NOT do quick finishes!! He just wears down people. How many times did we see Manny Steward frustratedly urging him to finish it in the corner, for round after round.

You people obviously have very short memories or haven't watched Vlad for the past 12 years.

One of the above posts states that photo was the first time they saw a look of fear on Vlad's face!! Are you serious? I've never seen any top-level boxer in history consistently look so scared as Vlad. Once anybody gets inside he grabs and holds for dear life and has a look of pure panic on his face. This happens in an awful lot of his fights.

I'm not saying Vlad has no chance, of course he does. His footwork alone is so good, there's a strong possiblity Joshua could end up over-extending with a lot of his punches as Vlad's subtle little step backs have always seen him keep out of range. My big question mark is his very obvious fear of getting hit. He has been super-cautious against even average punchers, so how is he going to be against a hard puncher like Joshua? That's the key for me. Vlad's not a counter-puncher, he likes to set the pace and dictate the terms of the contest, but I think Joshua won't give him the respect he normally gets and will force a pace Vlad is not comfortable with and possibly put Vlad into that super-cautious mode that makes him so frustrating to watch.

nacho libre · 10-04-2017 10:05pm

Klitschko Points

I've been watching Wlad since he started. I don't think i've ever said he was like Tyson in his approach. His approach since Manny took over was to systematically break down fighters by keeping them at range through his jab combined with his elusive skills. There is no doubt he will be very scared of Joshua's power, but i believe he has the ability to negate it, through his skill and experience, even at 41. Joshua has looked good against poor opposition who were there to be hit. He will finally be facing a fighter who uses his skill set very well to avoid trouble. Klitschko will find Joshua far easier to hit than he did Fury. If it goes as i think it will, Joshua will be caught coming in with hurtful shots due to his inferior footwork and head movement.

walshb · 10-04-2017 10:06pm

Joshua Points

Very good analysis and argument for Wlad, nacho!

MotherTeresa · 11-04-2017 1:08am

Draw

Interesting interview with Joshua, where he talks about Klitschko's expected technique. Note he is careful not to reveal his own game plan. But it's clear he has thought through how to cope with Klitschko's defensive style, and keeping out of his range.
Another thing I have noted in recent pictures is his neck size has really built up. I think he has been planning on taking some jabs from Klitschko and surviving. Maybe he learned something from when Whyte rocked him, and felt the need to build his neck up more to cope with heavy shots. The vibe I am getting is that he is relaxed and quietly confident about winning, and that is a good sign.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WBJEuy4uOc

MotherTeresa · 11-04-2017 1:19am

Draw

Look at his neck build up in this recent training camp picture. It's definitely thicker than before.
Also he is looking the heaviest I have seen him. The weigh in will be interesting, as I think he will come in well above Klitschko's weight. Many people have said his extra muscle mass will mean he gasses sooner due to the increased oxygen demand.
But I think of it this way, say he has an extra 5-10 KG muscle mass over Klitschko, then every jab or hook thrown will have more weight and power behind it. Say Klitschko does grab and hold him, and then push him down and back; when its say 110KG v 120KG, the heavier man pushes the lighter man back. And in Klitschko's case it will be into the ropes or corner.
Joshua is usually around 106KG, and Klitschko around 112KG, so they are close for the same height. But looking at Joshua now, he is looking more like 120KG. I am looking forward to the weigh in to see if he cuts it down, or keeps that bulk for the fight.
Also Marius Wach (his sparring partner pictured) went 12 rounds and lost to Klitschko on a points decison in 2012; so he is an ideal sparring partner.
At 6 feet 8" he is a tough man to spar. Apparently he put Joshua down sparring in training. But looking at his size I think that is to be expected!
Wach failed a doping test after losing a world heavyweight title fight against Wladimir Klitschko. He admitted to doping in the bout against Klitschko and got sanctioned by the Federation of German Professional Boxing, but said that he plans to continue his career no matter how harsh the penalties are.

3EF4CF4D00000578-0-image-m-2_1491381034008_zps9qejvo73.jpg

MotherTeresa · 11-04-2017 1:41am

Draw

Here is a Wach's finest hour. Round 5 and he rocks Klitschko. For the fanboys note Klitschko at his peak in 2012, and now contrast that to what you saw against Jennings, and Fury respectively. From 35-41 he has declined due to age. 2012 Klitschko compared to 2017 Klitschko is like night and day. I think some of you are thinking its a 2012 version that will be fighting on the 29th; but the reality is he is fighting father time at 41. Had it been Joshua he was facing in 2012 not Wach, then he would have annihilated him. But his speed and timing just isn't what it was. 15 months of inactivity just adds to the decline.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JctiLVvqeQ

MotherTeresa · 11-04-2017 1:58am

Draw

I think this is what Klitschko is getting on the 29th. OK Joshua's footwork isn't the best, but his head movement isn't walking onto Klitschko's jab. He avoided plenty of Whyte's punches with good head movement.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HikeSwTwBVc

walshb · 11-04-2017 1:54pm

Joshua Points

I think one thing is for sure. Win or lose, AJ will not fight scared. He will come to throw punches with spite and intent. So really the questions need to be asked of Wlad. Is he up for a battle? Because I don't think a gun shy negative-cautious approach will see him win.

It may buy him time, but it won't really deter AJ, or beat AJ. Wlad needs to be committed when he lets the hands go, if he lets them go! This will not be a 12 rds jabbing contest.

megadodge · 11-04-2017 6:44pm

Draw

MotherTeresa wrote: »

Apparently he put Joshua down sparring in training.

A good source told me Walshb knocked Joshua out cold for three days in sparring, just after megadodge had softened him up.

Joshua hasn't denied it.

Either did Walshb.

Eddie Hearn probably paid Walshb a 'silence' fee (hopefully), but then leaked it himself, so he can get a sellout crowd in Croke Park this summer and pocket millions from all the fools who can't see through this bum.

:rolleyes:

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