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Edward Carson

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  • 05-04-2013 6:40am
    #1
    tdv123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭


    Given that he was a Southern Unionist, it has always puzzled me why he was so ready to trade off the Southern Unionists for Ulster. Perhaps he rightly came to the conclusion that his efforts were futile in the South, but it seems rather unfortunate for Ireland that someone with such political and legal skills could not have been reconciled to the new direction the country was moving in.

    Does anyone know why (or have a theory on) he was so against the partition of the country or any sort of independence of the country?

    And why he refused to be the first PM of NI? Did he just see it as lost cause at that point? Do you think he would have helped stop a lot of blood shed or just created even more?

    I'd also be interested to hear peoples views on him overall from nationalist or unionist as I ever never really had a discussion on him with anyone before.


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    #2
    jonniebgood1
    Registered Users Posts: 3,577 ✭✭✭jonniebgood1


    He was against partition because he wanted the whole of Ireland to remain within the Union. When partition became real with the government of Ireland act he stuck to his principle and did not become PM as this would cement the partition which he disagreed with. It is also said that the lack of connection with any northern constituency played a part in this.


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    #3
    thecommietommy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 564 ✭✭✭thecommietommy


    He hoped that the threat of violence by the Ulster Volunteers would intimadate nationalists into backing down in calls form Home Rule or Independence. He wasn't shy at been a sectarian rabble rouser and initiated widespread violence against the vastly outnumbered Catholics of Belfast on the 12 July 1920.

    OliversArmyChapt7Pic1.jpg


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    #4
    tdv123
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭tdv123


    Why did the British government capitulate to his threat of violence? Wasn't this an act of treason?


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    #5
    thecommietommy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 564 ✭✭✭thecommietommy


    tdv123 wrote: »
    Why did the British government capitulate to his threat of violence? Wasn't this an act of treason?
    Because the British were the ones orchestrating the whole unionist claims 'backlash' etc The Brits have a long history of using the threat of unionist violence to renege on Irish nationalist demands. Just like the Larne gunning running, the dropping of the Home Rule bills 1886, 1893 with " Ulster will fight and Ulster will be right " etc Just remember the unionists are only 2% of the population of the British state, 2%. It's BS that the British govt were ' afraid ' of taking on the unionists.

    But of course no inhibitions about taking on nationalist Ireland when a few shots or whatever were fired down in Tipperary or Cork. No wasting time calling curfews, sending tens of thousands of British soldiers over to search the country, mass arrests internment, executions etc

    Carson became a very bitter individual when the British and his fellow unionists abandoned him and the other unionists south of the border ( the Unionists won 3 seats in Dublin in 1918). In the House of Lords, in his maiden speech, following the Anglo-Irish treaty, 1921, he denounced Chamberlain, Birkenhead and all others, ‘I was in earnest. What a fool I was! I was only a puppet, and so was Ulster, and so was Ireland, in the political game that was to get the Conservative Party into power…. I could not help thinking that it was very like, after having shot a man in the back, going over to him and patting him on the shoulder, and saying, ‘Old man, die as quickly as you can, and do not make any noise … Why all this attack made on Ulster? What has Ulster done? I will tell you. She has stuck too well to you, and you believe because she is loyal you can kick her as you like".


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