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Is it permissible to travel to viewings outside of 2KM?

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2

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    #32
    SmartinMartin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,937 ✭✭✭SmartinMartin


    I've just read through the act and it doesn't apply, so there's nothing to argue.


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    #33
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    SmartinMartin wrote: »
    I've just read through the act and it doesn't apply, so there's nothing to argue.

    As I said when you get stopped by a Guard and he /she uses the PO act or any other act they feel applies feel free to point out it doesn't apply I 'm sure the Guard will bow to your greater knowledge.
    You do realise now is not the time to be a d**k?


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    #34
    SmartinMartin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,937 ✭✭✭SmartinMartin


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    As I said when you get stopped by a Guard and he /she uses the PO act or any other act they feel applies feel free to point out it doesn't apply I 'm sure the Guard will bow to your greater knowledge.
    You do realise now is not the time to be a d**k?

    You could apply that to yourself, because nowhere did I advocate arguing with the authorities. I think the guards are doing a great job during this pandemic, but your assertion that they'll just quote an act that has nothing to do with the circumstances is pie in the sky. As stated previously, until they bring in specific law it is not illegal to undertake a journey as suggested by the op.


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    #35
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    SmartinMartin wrote: »
    You could apply that to yourself, because nowhere did I advocate arguing with the authorities. I think the guards are doing a great job during this pandemic, but your assertion that they'll just quote an act that has nothing to do with the circumstances is pie in the sky. As stated previously, until they bring in specific law it is not illegal to undertake a journey as suggested by the op.

    I don't need to apply anything to myself. The government gave clear guidelines on travel. Which since the onset of this crisis I have adhered to as I know these restrictions weren't imposed lightly.
    Do you need a specific law to make you do whats right?
    Btw my assertion is not pie the sky, several members of my family are in the force . Most people will follow a reasonable request from a Guard without looking for a specific act which said request falls under.
    Bye now.


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    #36
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,916 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    micks_address wrote:
    Worst case is they will tell you to go home. It's not essential and someone will be along shortly to tell you you are risking lives but do your groceries beside the viewing and we will all feel better. As long as you aren't hugging the landlord or in an overcrowded space then I think it's probably reasonable

    They will ask you to go home.

    Laws that allow the Gardai to tell you to go home haven't been passed yet


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    #37
    SmartinMartin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,937 ✭✭✭SmartinMartin


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    I don't need to apply anything to myself. The government gave clear guidelines on travel. Which since the onset of this crisis I have adhered to as I know these restrictions weren't imposed lightly.
    Do you need a specific law to make you do whats right?
    Btw my assertion is not pie the sky, several members of my family are in the force . Most people will follow a reasonable request from a Guard without looking for a specific act which said request falls under.
    Bye now.

    Ah, so there's no law. Bye now.


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    #38
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,221 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    Sleeper12 wrote: »
    They will ask you to go home.

    Laws that allow the Gardai to tell you to go home haven't been passed yet

    is this one of these cases where they ask you to go home, and if you refuse, that gives them grounds to tell you to go home?


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    #39
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    SmartinMartin wrote: »
    Ah, so there's no law. Bye now.
    Yet. No law yet. But it's coming; https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0402/1128191-coronavirus-garda-powers/

    But to be fair, if you say no to the Gardai, they'll ask for ID. And said ID will probably have your address.


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    #40
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Quantum Erasure wrote: »
    is this one of these cases where they ask you to go home, and if you refuse, that gives them grounds to tell you to go home?

    They ask you to go home , you refuse. The offense is failure to follow the direction of a Guard. Where you are then giving the opportunity to go home or to the Garda station.


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    #41
    SmartinMartin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,937 ✭✭✭SmartinMartin


    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    They ask you to go home , you refuse. The offense is failure to follow the direction of a Guard. Where you are then giving the opportunity to go home or to the Garda station.
    Failure to follow the direction of a Garda under what act?


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    #42
    Sleeper12
    Registered Users Posts: 16,916 ✭✭✭✭Sleeper12


    dor843088 wrote:
    People should really pay attention. And also cop on. Travelling around viewing apartments? Really ?

    Ah Leo's speach is like the Bible. It's open to interpretation. There's a lot of people were determined that Leo said only one parent was allowed out with the children when in actual fact he never ruled out both parents.


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    #43
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    SmartinMartin wrote: »
    Failure to follow the direction of a Garda under what act?

    You like reading, off you go. Not interested in providing you with entertainment.
    You claim you understand the Guards have a tough job yet here you are asking what acts can a Guard use to stop you being a d**k.
    Reply if you wish but I'm done with your nonsense.


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    #44
    SmartinMartin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,937 ✭✭✭SmartinMartin


    You're the one talking nonsense here. There is no law in place yet to direct a person to go home, no matter how many of your family are in the guards, end of. You are just blustering by suggesting they'll get you somehow. The Guards are requesting people to comply, and in the nicest possible way by the way, judging by the 10 or so checkpoints I've been through so far, and until the law comes in that's all they'll do.


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    #45
    Caranica
    Registered Users Posts: 10,032 ✭✭✭✭Caranica


    SmartinMartin wrote: »
    You're the one talking nonsense here. There is no law in place yet to direct a person to go home, no matter how many of your family are in the guards, end of. You are just blustering by suggesting they'll get you somehow. The Guards are requesting people to comply, and in the nicest possible way by the way, judging by the 10 or so checkpoints I've been through so far, and until the law comes in that's all they'll do.

    Surely the point is that it is morally reprehensible to make any unnecessary journeys when people are dying from this virus. It's sickening how many people are ignoring the requests to stay at home and are jeopardising public health because they think they are special. Arguing with the Gardai who are risking their health to keep the rest of us safe is disgusting.

    Going back to A&P, where possible viewings should be done by video chat if renting and afaik viewings of property for sale are all but stopped.


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    #46
    SmartinMartin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,937 ✭✭✭SmartinMartin


    We are in agreement. At no stage did I suggest arguing with Gardai. I merely informed the op that there was no law in place to cover being sent home, leaving the moral decision to him.


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    #47
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,221 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    Did Simon Harris just say he was going to sign the order now on Prime Time?


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    #48
    jlm29
    Registered Users Posts: 3,818 ✭✭✭jlm29


    Quantum Erasure wrote: »
    Did Simon Harris just say he was going to sign the order now on Prime Time?

    This evening, he said!


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    #49
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,221 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    jlm29 wrote: »
    This evening, he said!

    well yeah, i didn't think he was going to sign it live on telly.

    although...


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    #50
    SmartinMartin
    Registered Users Posts: 2,937 ✭✭✭SmartinMartin


    Well that's good, it left the Guards in an awkward position should someone persist. Was there not some question of an interim govt being unable to enact?


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    #51
    seasidedub
    Registered Users Posts: 234 ✭✭seasidedub


    I've moved in the middle of all this. Went to guards who told me moving home fell under essential business as people cant be homeless. I'd sold and purchasers were desperate.

    I put stickers on stuff to be moved, a guy put them in his van, took them to storage for the larger items as am temporarily renting and it's furnished. He dropped the other items to door of new place. I literally moved without human contact. The storage had a pin number for him to get in, noone there.

    I shop in same places as always, no change or additional spread, drive to work as am frontline, walk beach across road for exercise as allowed and other than that stay home alone.

    It can be done.


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    #52
    Slydice
    Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭Slydice


    the_syco wrote: »
    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Can you not just follow the guidelines ? They weren't created just for the craic.

    If the OP is a lodger, they can be given 24 hours notice to leave at the drop of a hat. If any of the lodgers in the house get sick, the landlord/lady will probably clear house

    I don't think so and I'd be wary of advising this.

    Just from my earlier reading and post to the corona thread, I didn't include everything but I included this:
    Slydice wrote: »
    4.1 Unlawful Termination of Tenancies
    An unlawful termination of tenancy, also known as an illegal eviction, may occur where a landlord, through force, intimidation or otherwise (such as cutting off utilities, changing the locks etc.) denies a tenant from accessing a rented dwelling or removes the tenant’s belongings from the dwelling. The unlawful termination of a tenancy is a significant concern and one which the RTB takes very seriously. The RTB prioritises applications citing unlawful termination of tenancy.

    Please be aware that carrying out an illegal eviction can result in damages of up to €20,000 being awarded to the tenant. The RTB can seek an injunction from the high court to reinstate the tenant and will continue to prioritise these cases during the emergency period.

    It was so long, I didn't want to quote the whole document but I remembered seeing this under 1.2 Emergency Legislation:
    The emergency legislation states (Section 5(7)) that all proposed evictions are prohibited. It is understood that the intent of this provision is to address arrangements which are often described as Rent-a-Room and “Digs” style accommodation. Landlords and tenants in such circumstances are asked to show forbearance and support for each other during the emergency period and, where possible, and having regard to the precautions necessary to tackle COVID-19, to avoid termination of accommodation arrangements.

    Here's the direct link to the pdf file:
    https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/guidance_document_support_for_landlords_and_tenants.pdf


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    #53
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    Slydice wrote: »
    Slydice wrote: »
    Tenancies

    I don't think so and I'd be wary of advising this.
    Lodger is the key word. A tenant has a tenancy. A lodger has nothing. If the OP is a lodger in the same house as the owner, they could be made homeless very easily.


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    #54
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,524 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    Slydice wrote: »
    I don't think so and I'd be wary of advising this.

    Just from my earlier reading and post to the corona thread, I didn't include everything but I included this:


    It was so long, I didn't want to quote the whole document but I remembered seeing this under 1.2 Emergency Legislation:


    Here's the direct link to the pdf file:
    https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/guidance_document_support_for_landlords_and_tenants.pdf

    That’s all great of your a tenant with a tenancy. A lodger in a rent a room
    Scenario has no such rights. The Gov asked people not terminate lodging arrangements last week or so but nothing in legislation similar to tenancies.


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    #55
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,221 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    https://twitter.com/merrionstreet/status/1245306534646644738


    there has been no further update


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    #56
    Slydice
    Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭Slydice


    From what I know, tenant is the word being used and sometimes tenant just means tenant.

    That sometimes, there's another word used for lodgers / rent-a-room / digs and that word is usually: licensee
    https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/sharing_accommodation_with_your_landlord.html
    If you are renting a room in your landlord's home, your situation is very different. You do not have a standard tenancy agreement. Instead, you have a licensee agreement with your landlord.


    Just checking the Act of Law...
    the final one listed here "27 Mar 2020": https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/bills/bill/2020/4/
    direct link to the pdf:
    https://data.oireachtas.ie/ie/oireachtas/act/2020/2/eng/enacted/a0220.pdf

    well checking the Act of Law.. in:
    PART 2
    OPERATION OF RESIDENTIAL TENANCIES ACT 2004
    It has this in the Interpretation section 3. -> (2) -> (b)
    references to tenant shall be construed as including references to licensee


    More than that though, looks like they covered alot in it:
    (2) In this Part
      — (a)references to landlord shall be construed as including references to licensorwithin the meaning of section 37 of the Residential Tenancies (Amendment) Act2019, (b)references to tenant shall be construed as including references to licensee withinsuch meaning, and (c)references to tenancy shall be construed as including references to licence withinsuch meaning.
    (3)A word or expression that is used in this Part and in the Act of 2004 shall have themeaning in this Part that it has in that Act.


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    #57
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    It has been suggested the emergency legislation does not cover 'digs' and rent-a-room scenarios even though that may have been the intent.

    Something to do with the (2) In this Part, being attached to the section specifically for student accommodation if I remember correctly.


    508733.jpg
    https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/55da55-daily-briefing-on-the-governments-response-to-covid-19-wednesday-1st/#digs-and-rent-a-room-evictions



    Either way, it is not currently a foregone conclusion that lodgers/rent-a-room is covered by the emergency legislation.


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    #58
    runswithascript
    Registered Users Posts: 2,791 ✭✭✭runswithascript


    Quantum Erasure wrote: »
    well yeah, i didn't think he was going to sign it live on telly.

    although...

    I imagine Miriam can be quite persuasive :pac:
    seasidedub wrote: »
    I've moved in the middle of all this. Went to guards who told me moving home fell under essential business as people cant be homeless. I'd sold and purchasers were desperate.

    I put stickers on stuff to be moved, a guy put them in his van, took them to storage for the larger items as am temporarily renting and it's furnished. He dropped the other items to door of new place. I literally moved without human contact. The storage had a pin number for him to get in, noone there.

    I shop in same places as always, no change or additional spread, drive to work as am frontline, walk beach across road for exercise as allowed and other than that stay home alone.

    It can be done.

    You run a tight and socially responsible ship, fair play.


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    #59
    Slydice
    Registered Users Posts: 10,501 ✭✭✭✭Slydice


    It feels like a really bad idea to give the impression to people that Digs / Rent-a-Room are not covered by the law.

    The newest source of information on it I can find is the RTB document which looks to be repeating the Governments previous document. Both are linked on this page:
    Guidance Document on COVID-19 supports for landlords and tenants
    Guidance for landlords and tenants on the new emergency measures.
    https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/guidance-document-on-covid-19-supports-for-landlords-and-tenants

    The RTB have their newer document than any other source I can find:
    Emergency Legislation –FAQs for Landlords and Tenants
    2nd April 2020
    https://onestopshop.rtb.ie/images/uploads/Comms%20and%20Research/FAQs_on_Emergency_Legislation_Final.pdf
    3.RENT A ROOM / ‘DIGS’ ACCOMMODATION
    •The emergency legislation states (Section 5(7)) that all proposed evictions are prohibited. It is understood that the intent of this provision is to address living arrangements which are often described as Rent-a-Room and “Digs” style accommodation. Property owners and persons renting in such circumstances are asked to show forbearance and support for each other during the emergency period and, where possible, and having regard to the precautions necessary to tackle COVID-19, to avoid termination of accommodation arrangements.


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    #60
    silver2020
    Registered Users Posts: 2,045 ✭✭✭silver2020


    Baby01032012 wrote: »
    I’m an estate agent. Letting an apartment does not come under an essential service. I had a maintenance guy go to an apartment block time repair a gate he was stopped and fined €150 by the guards as it’s not an essential service.

    BULLSH1T - absolute BULLSH1T


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    #61
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,221 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    Slydice wrote: »
    It feels like a really bad idea to give the impression to people that Digs / Rent-a-Room are not covered by the law.

    from my reading of it, they're not.

    Property owners are asked to show forbearance and to avoid termination of accommodation arrangements.

    so i googled 'forbearance' to make sure i understood it right, and was surprised to see it so explicitly stated

    forbearance
    LAW
    the action of refraining from exercising a legal right,


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