What do you do about Club Membership fees if courses are closed

hawkelady · 03-04-2020 8:55am

All members of golf clubs who are retired should continue paying their subs as their income hasn’t changed at all .

Mantis Toboggan · 03-04-2020 9:23am

hawkelady wrote: »

All members of golf clubs who are retired should continue paying their subs as their income hasn’t changed at all .

Yeah but their pensions could have taken a massive hit.

hawkelady · 03-04-2020 9:28am

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Yeah but their pensions could have taken a massive hit.

If you’re drawing your pension either state and or private , afaik it’s a set amount that’s already been paid into so it doesn’t change

03-04-2020 9:39am

Sultan_of_Ping wrote: »

I'd say any club taking a legalistic approach to gathering membership fees won't have many fees to collect by next year.

Equally if enough members stop paying then a lot of clubs will go out of business. So many clubs just about holding on as it is.

gypsy79 · 03-04-2020 9:43am

hawkelady wrote: »

If you’re drawing your pension either state and or private , afaik it’s a set amount that’s already been paid into so it doesn’t change

Not necessarily true and in fact in these days of low interest rates then probably not true at all.

There are tonnes of methods not to turn all your pension into an annuity like an ARF

And if you dont know what an annuity is or an ARF is then I suggest not making comments like above

hawkelady · 03-04-2020 11:18am

gypsy79 wrote: »

Not necessarily true and in fact in these days of low interest rates then probably not true at all.

There are tonnes of methods not to turn all your pension into an annuity like an ARF

And if you dont know what an annuity is or an ARF is then I suggest not making comments like above

Ah , a know it all !!
No I wouldn’t know in intricacies of pension funds etc , that won’t stop me commenting though . If you have an annuity though ,AFAIK( this is the hint) you will have a set amount for the rest of your life ?
Anyway , let’s get back on topic . You sound like a person that is wanting to stop your sub ?Please Correct me if I’m wrong .. I will continue paying my sub as I want my club to be there after this sorry tale is over .

Reganio 2 · 03-04-2020 11:21am

hawkelady wrote: »

Ah , a know it all !!
No I wouldn’t know in intricacies of pension funds etc , that won’t stop me commenting though . If you have an annuity though ,AFAIK( this is the hint) you will have a set amount for the rest of your life ?
Anyway , let’s get back on topic . You sound like a person that is wanting to stop your sub ?Please Correct me if I’m wrong .. I will continue paying my sub as I want my club to be there after this sorry tale is over .

I know nothing about Golf wont stop me commenting though.

gypsy79 · 03-04-2020 11:23am

hawkelady wrote: »

Ah , a know it all !!
No I wouldn’t know in intricacies of pension funds etc , that won’t stop me commenting though . If you have an annuity though ,AFAIK( this is the hint) you will have a set amount for the rest of your life ?

Yes and my company usually charge 350 per hour for such advice from me!!

:p

Many private sector people will resist annuities now and for the foreseeable future due to low interest rates

morrga · 03-04-2020 12:20pm

Kellan Small Spaciousness wrote: »

How could you possibly know that?

The government has agreed to pay 70% of wages for those earning up to 38,000 per annum. The vast majority of incomes under 38k are protected.

I haven't heard of many colleagues, family or friends earning above 38k who have had their income reduced either. Have you?

Most who signed on to the dole were low income earners who have been compensated with 350 per week and not exactly a cohort of golfers who make up a large part of the golfing population. As harsh as that might sound I don't think its a million miles from the truth.

This country loves to play the poor mouth but still expect sky sports, pints and 2 holidays a year to be a minimum standard of living. The entitlement of the country has us molly coddled.

morrga · 03-04-2020 12:27pm

Seve OB wrote: »

im down to 30% of my regular wage so im gonna suggest you know nothing about anyone else business

Sorry to hear that. Unfortunately one person's situation is not an adequate sample size reflective of all golfers situations.
So when I am generalising of course certain individuals cannot be covered but my point is a significant majority of incomes are protected or close to protection. Those who's arent can avail of mortgage holidays etc etc.

And back to my original point membership is an annual subscription not a monthly subscription. Like mortgage moratoriums I am sure golf clubs can accept a deferral of standing orders but on the agreement the full annual sub is still due payable.

blue note · 03-04-2020 12:29pm

The incomes of pretty much anyone self employed or who have performance based pay like commission or bonuses will be severely hit by this. There is a huge percentage of golfers who have been and will be hit financially from this.

And to add, I don't fit into the above, but both mine and my wife's jobs are in jeopardy from this. I started a new job with the intention that I take on new business which has now vanished. I'm not sure there's a need for me now. And my wife works in the aviation industry, so God knows what will happen there.

The effects of this will be severe and it will reach all types of people. Including golfers.

gypsy79 · 03-04-2020 12:41pm

My bonus is gone for many years.....I earn 6 figures for now...will i still be earning at that level in 6 months or a years time. We live month to month. My rent is 40% of my income. There are 3 (soon to be 4) people to look after on the remainder

A couple in Dublin were both are earning in the 50-60k range with two kids were struggling to survive in the old world. If they both go to 38k they are screwed. Mortgage holidays are that they are holiday. Mortgages are accruing interest

I was self employed till last October. I am blessed

Seve OB · 03-04-2020 1:05pm

morrga wrote: »

Sorry to hear that. Unfortunately one person's situation is not an adequate sample size reflective of all golfers situations.
So when I am generalising of course certain individuals cannot be covered but my point is a significant majority of incomes are protected or close to protection. Those who's arent can avail of mortgage holidays etc etc.

And back to my original point membership is an annual subscription not a monthly subscription. Like mortgage moratoriums I am sure golf clubs can accept a deferral of standing orders but on the agreement the full annual sub is still due payable.

forget about me for a minute
the point is, you haven't a clue what circumstance other golfers are finding themselves in.
you made a general statement that most golfers haven't been to badly impacted and you have absolutely no backup to that assumption.

Ottoman_1000 · 03-04-2020 1:18pm

Since yesterday I have been put on 3 days a week and the wife had already been made temporary redundant for the foreseeable. With 2 kids and a mortgage I am afraid the golf club direct debit has to be cut. Along with a few other pastimes. Its just the way it it. Family and house will always come first. Some of the attitudes on here are unbelievable, people almost getting called out and shamed for prioritising their family and home over their golf sub....

xgronkjabv6pcl · 03-04-2020 1:18pm

morrga wrote: »

The government has agreed to pay 70% of wages for those earning up to 38,000 per annum. The vast majority of incomes under 38k are protected.

I haven't heard of many colleagues, family or friends earning above 38k who have had their income reduced either. Have you?

Most who signed on to the dole were low income earners who have been compensated with 350 per week and not exactly a cohort of golfers who make up a large part of the golfing population. As harsh as that might sound I don't think its a million miles from the truth.

This country loves to play the poor mouth but still expect sky sports, pints and 2 holidays a year to be a minimum standard of living. The entitlement of the country has us molly coddled.

You're doing the exact same thing again as highlighted above, another sweeping statement based upon zero facts.

Do you have the income breakdown of the golfing population of ireland?

No idea what the poor mouth stuff is related to, I'm assuming it's not directed towards me so no particular interest in engaging in that.

GreeBo · 03-04-2020 1:27pm

To be fair, we cant on one hand be worried about the state of golf in Ireland due to the average age being 60+ and now suddenly worried that all these young golfers have no spare cash to pay their golf subs....its kinda either one or the other, at a macro level. Obviously individual members and clubs are all different, but in general golfers in Ireland should be least impacted by any wage cuts due to COVID-19.

xgronkjabv6pcl · 03-04-2020 1:39pm

GreeBo wrote: »

To be fair, we cant on one hand be worried about the state of golf in Ireland due to the average age being 60+ and now suddenly worried that all these young golfers have no spare cash to pay their golf subs....its kinda either one or the other, at a macro level. Obviously individual members and clubs are all different, but in general golfers in Ireland should be least impacted by any wage cuts due to COVID-19.

It's not one or the other. Those people of an older vintage are not all flush with cash.

They have commitments too, perhaps their children are out of work and instead of paying for the luxury of golf, they're supporting their family.

There is some sense to what your saying but it's crazy to think it's a binary thing.

Where are you getting 60+ as the average age of a golfer in Ireland?

DuckSlice · 03-04-2020 2:04pm

I don't think there is any right or wrong here, if you want to pay it, pay and don't be giving out about the people that dont want to or cant pay it.

blackbox · 03-04-2020 2:23pm

etxp wrote: »

I don't think there is any right or wrong here, if you want to pay it, pay and don't be giving out about the people that dont want to or cant pay it.

I feel quite differently about those who don't want to compared to those who can't.

DuckSlice · 03-04-2020 2:51pm

Maybe the people that don't want to are concerned about what could happen in the next few weeks with regard to their incomes. Few big companies in Galway are making major cuts this week where as last week they were full steam ahead.

Seve OB · 03-04-2020 3:41pm

etxp wrote: »

Maybe the people that don't want to are concerned about what could happen in the next few weeks with regard to their incomes. Few big companies in Galway are making major cuts this week where as last week they were full steam ahead.

It’s alright though because golfers probably won’t be affected

willabur · 03-04-2020 3:45pm

There are alot of companies running on fumes.
Markets have collapsed and many are eating into their cash reserve to keep things going as long as they can. Many are planning periods of hibernation which will involved lay offs and then redundancies. This thing is going to get a whole lot worse before its going to get better speaking strictly from an economic pov

that is going to be very bad news for golf clubs all over the place

xgronkjabv6pcl · 03-04-2020 3:45pm

Seve OB wrote: »

It’s alright though because golfers probably won’t be affected

Well that depends of course if it's a factory worked by the proletariat or if it also fills the coffers of the bourgeois.

Qu'ils mangent de la brioche

morrga · 03-04-2020 11:18pm

Seve OB wrote: »

forget about me for a minute
the point is, you haven't a clue what circumstance other golfers are finding themselves in.
you made a general statement that most golfers haven't been to badly impacted and you have absolutely no backup to that assumption.

I am basing it in the government subsidising 70% of salaries for those earning 38k and below meaning most of that pay bracket are not far off 100% salaries with some form of company top up. Not everyone because that’s impossible but a significant chunk.

Seve OB · 03-04-2020 11:33pm

morrga wrote: »

I am basing it in the government subsidising 70% of salaries for those earning 38k and below meaning most of that pay bracket are not far off 100% salaries with some form of company top up. Not everyone because that’s impossible but a significant chunk.

So now you are assuming most golfers earn 38k or less

BigChap1759 · 04-04-2020 9:46am

gypsy79 wrote: »

Yes and my company usually charge 350 per hour for such advice from me!! :p

Many private sector people will resist annuities now and for the foreseeable future due to low interest rates

Annuities in general are just a terrible deal for everyone bar the pension companies

gypsy79 · 04-04-2020 11:02pm

BigChap1759 wrote: »

Annuities in general are just a terrible deal for everyone bar the pension companies

In the current climate you are correct as a good scottish man if i know who I am talking to

In the past, insurance companies have been screwed on them too

Deporhostia · 06-04-2020 8:01am

BigChap1759 wrote: »

Annuities in general are just a terrible deal for everyone bar the pension companies

Could you quickly explain why you think so?

Myself and the wife were being suggested this last year, she wanted to go for it whereas I felt like any spare cash would be best served paying off my mortgage earlier.

Thanks for any help

JimmyVik · 06-04-2020 8:18am

I was going to cancel mine. But I got a couple of rounds on it the the last few days, so i wont cancel now.
A guy working there lives down the road from me and goes up every day to do maintenance, keep an eye on the place.
He called in the other day asking if I wanted a round with him. Looks like it will be a regular "date" as he is eager to keep playing too, so happy to pay mine.
Would not be happy though if i wasnt playing. Not exactly cheap to keep going indefinitely with nothing for it.

Glebee · 06-04-2020 8:49am

JimmyVik wrote: »

I was going to cancel mine. But I got a couple of rounds on it the the last few days, so i wont cancel now.
A guy working there lives down the road from me and goes up every day to do maintenance, keep an eye on the place.
He called in the other day asking if I wanted a round with him. Looks like it will be a regular "date" as he is eager to keep playing too, so happy to pay mine.
Would not be happy though if i wasnt playing. Not exactly cheap to keep going indefinitely with nothing for it.

I dont think id be too happy if I was a member there and not allowed play and you were getting out. I suppose its probally happening in other places though..:(

Sultan_of_Ping · 06-04-2020 8:53am

Glebee wrote: »

I dont think id be too happy if I was a member their and not allowed play and you were getting out. I suppose its probally happening in otehr places though..:(

Yep - cycled past our place over the weekend and saw a couple of lads out knocking a ball around - not sure what they are playing for because there's no flags and no holes cut.

JimmyVik · 06-04-2020 9:04am

Glebee wrote: »

I dont think id be too happy if I was a member their and not allowed play and you were getting out. I suppose its probally happening in otehr places though..:(

I give him a hand with a few things at other times. I guess he wanted to return the favour and get in some practice himself, so win/win.

He has a little remote control car with a camera on it and a flag at the top of it. Drives it out to each hole as we play it. Great little gadget. Hes down there doing the grass all day every day anyway so its in good shape.

Golfgraffix · 06-04-2020 9:43am

JimmyVik wrote: »

I was going to cancel mine. But I got a couple of rounds on it the the last few days, so i wont cancel now.
A guy working there lives down the road from me and goes up every day to do maintenance, keep an eye on the place.
He called in the other day asking if I wanted a round with him. Looks like it will be a regular "date" as he is eager to keep playing too, so happy to pay mine.
Would not be happy though if i wasnt playing. Not exactly cheap to keep going indefinitely with nothing for it.

Surprised to hear this, would you consider golf “essential travel”? If people stick to the guidelines, golf will be back open but if they don’t it will take even longer. I would have thought playing golf now is pretty myopic.

In my golf club staying off the course is considered “a condition of continued membership”

Rikand · 06-04-2020 10:47am

There is always going to be some people who feel that the rules dont apply to them. We have one or two sneaking onto the course in our place too I'm told. Hiding down the back of the course to hit a few balls. And you know which members they are without even having to be told

Sultan_of_Ping · 06-04-2020 10:50am

Rikand wrote: »

There is always going to be some people who feel that the rules dont apply to them. We have one or two sneaking onto the course in our place too I'm told. Hiding down the back of the course to hit a few balls. And you know which members they are without even having to be told

+1 on this.

The pair I saw were no surprise.

Seve OB · 06-04-2020 11:00am

JimmyVik wrote: »

I was going to cancel mine. But I got a couple of rounds on it the the last few days, so i wont cancel now.
A guy working there lives down the road from me and goes up every day to do maintenance, keep an eye on the place.
He called in the other day asking if I wanted a round with him. Looks like it will be a regular "date" as he is eager to keep playing too, so happy to pay mine.
Would not be happy though if i wasnt playing. Not exactly cheap to keep going indefinitely with nothing for it.

Mod delete

JimmyVik · 06-04-2020 11:36am

Golfgraffix wrote: »

Surprised to hear this, would you consider golf “essential travel”? If people stick to the guidelines, golf will be back open but if they don’t it will take even longer. I would have thought playing golf now is pretty myopic.

In my golf club staying off the course is considered “a condition of continued membership”

In my case its within 2km of my house, so no problem there.
If it was further I wouldnt go.

Seve OB · 06-04-2020 11:53am

JimmyVik wrote: »

In my case its within 2km of my house, so no problem there.
If it was further I wouldnt go.

Of course it’s a problem. The course is closed, but you feel that doesn’t apply to you
If it was my club and I found out any member had been playing while the club has been told to close the course, I would F you from a height. I hope your fellow club members find out what you have been up to and that soon you will be made feel about as welcome as a fart in a spacesuit around your club.

JimmyVik · 06-04-2020 12:02pm

Seve OB wrote: »

Of course it’s a problem. The course is closed, but you feel that doesn’t apply to you
If it was my club and I found out any member had been playing while the club has been told to close the course, I would F you from a height. I hope your fellow club members find out what you have been up to and that soon you will be made feel about as welcome as a fart in a spacesuit around your club.

Its not closed to me though.
The guy working there brings me in. I help him out with a few things and we have a round. I have always gave him a hand with stuff when he needed a body at short notice and he threw a few quid my way. Now he asks me to play a round with him for the company.

We arent doing anything wrong. Hes cleared it with his boss. Everything is fine. I dont see why people should have a problem with that, but i guess we are in Ireland. The Irish crabs story comes to mind.

charlieIRL · 06-04-2020 12:12pm

The courses are closed for a reason, by ignoring the reasons is how this virus is being spread. Until everyone gets that into their heads we are never going to be rid of it.
Do you know you are more that likely not insured to be on the course?

xgronkjabv6pcl · 06-04-2020 12:25pm

charlieIRL wrote: »

The courses are closed for a reason, by ignoring the reasons is how this virus is being spread. Until everyone gets that into their heads we are never going to be rid of it.
Do you know you are more that likely not insured to be on the course?

I suspect he's winding people up to be honest.

There are few courses worth their salt that are hiring people in cash in hand on an ad-hoc basis throughout the year as described let alone courses condoning it during an issue like this.

I'd be more inclined to think it's a bad joke in worst taste than something to be inflamed by.

JimmyVik · 06-04-2020 12:26pm

Ok, I only really came on to post that i wouldnt be paying my subs if i wasnt able to play, so i will take my leave now.
For anyone who begrudges me a few rounds, you all do your thing and i'll do mine and lets leave it at that.

Seve OB · 06-04-2020 12:38pm

JimmyVik wrote: »

Ok, I only really came on to post that i wouldnt be paying my subs if i wasnt able to play, so i will take my leave now.
For anyone who begrudges me a few rounds, you all do your thing and i'll do mine and lets leave it at that.

It looks more like to me that you came on to boast that you were still playing while the rest of us are obeying the law.

You keep telling yourself that it’s ok for you.

Sure maybe you have a mate who works in Tesco who will bring you in the back door to do your shopping when the store is closed to everyone else. And sure while yiz are there, he might give you a free feed. But sure he works there and invited you in, so that makes it ok for you.

redzerdrog · 06-04-2020 1:02pm

Anyone skirting the rules regarding closed golf courses is a selfish idiot

Golfgraffix · 06-04-2020 1:34pm

JimmyVik wrote: »

Ok, I only really came on to post that i wouldnt be paying my subs if i wasnt able to play, so i will take my leave now.
For anyone who begrudges me a few rounds, you all do your thing and i'll do mine and lets leave it at that.

Not when your thing affects when I and all other like minded golfers get back to playing and playing safely. If you were in my club you would be asked to leave with no refund and not welcome back.

Golfgraffix · 06-04-2020 1:37pm

JimmyVik wrote: »

Its not closed to me though.
The guy working there brings me in. I help him out with a few things and we have a round. I have always gave him a hand with stuff when he needed a body at short notice and he threw a few quid my way. Now he asks me to play a round with him for the company.

We arent doing anything wrong. Hes cleared it with his boss. Everything is fine. I dont see why people should have a problem with that, but i guess we are in Ireland. The Irish crabs story comes to mind.

Lets test that theory. Post the name of the club and lets see if there are any of your fellow members on here who agree with you.

GreeBo · 06-04-2020 2:02pm

JimmyVik wrote: »

Its not closed to me though

JimmyVik wrote: »

but i guess we are in Ireland.

Indeed we are.

Jimmy as long as you have your hazards on while you play it should be fine.

kennethrhcp · 06-04-2020 2:12pm

JimmyVik wrote: »

We arent doing anything wrong. Hes cleared it with his boss. Everything is fine.

this is the part I like the most

GreeBo · 06-04-2020 2:14pm

kennethrhcp wrote: »

this is the part I like the most

Unless his boss is Leo Varadkar, I'm not even sure of the relevance of the point!

downthemiddle · 06-04-2020 7:47pm

Kellan Small Spaciousness wrote: »

I suspect he's winding people up to be honest.

There are few courses worth their salt that are hiring people in cash in hand on an ad-hoc basis throughout the year as described let alone courses condoning it during an issue like this.

I'd be more inclined to think it's a bad joke in worst taste than something to be inflamed by.

Clearly a poor attempt at trolling.
However, there is a post from Twitter purporting to show golfers playing a prominent Belfast club two days ago.

What do you do about Club Membership fees if courses are closed

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