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What do you do about Club Membership fees if courses are closed

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    #62
    Mantis Toboggan
    Registered Users Posts: 17,670 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    GreeBo wrote: »
    If you expect the course and clubhouse to be in the same condition when you return to golf, then you have to expect to pay to keep it in that condition.

    Grass growth isnt on lockdown (yet!)

    The grass is only starting to grow now for the first time in 6 months!

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



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    #63
    Mantis Toboggan
    Registered Users Posts: 17,670 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    2 months credit announced by my club. Good move imo, keeps everyone happy and encourages people to pay their sub.

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



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    #64
    willabur
    Registered Users Posts: 1,606 ✭✭✭willabur


    I think clubs that are proactive on this and make some kind of a gesture will have that investment returned to them


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    #65
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,057 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    willabur wrote: »
    I think clubs that are proactive on this and make some kind of a gesture will have that investment returned to them

    Based on some of the posts I have seen on this forum in the past, I strongly suggest that will not be the case.
    Mantis Toboggan wrote: »
    The grass is only starting to grow now for the first time in 6 months!
    etxp wrote: »
    Well I never knew the grass wouldn't stop growing :eek:

    Erm, grass grows year round in Ireland, if you think your course hasn't been cutting the grass multiple times per week over the last few months then you are misinformed.


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    #66
    londonred
    Registered Users Posts: 142 ✭✭londonred


    Membership up at end of month planning to upgrade course this year , expect the top courses will be ok as they have waiting lists the clubs in the middle with poor drainage will be in trouble the bottom feeders will always have a market .


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    #67
    Macker1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭Macker1


    Will be continuing to pay my membership sub no question and I'm fortunate that I'm able to do so. My club is financially well ran and I would expect it will continue to be carefully managed during this unfortunate crisis. Its a members owned club and most people have been there for a significant length of time so this is just another challenge (albeit fairly tough) to face up to and overcome.

    I was recently discussing with the Club Pro some issues with my game and my plan to finally get fitted for a new set of clubs for the first time ever. Had my eyes on nice set of Ping G410's so it will be something to look forward too after we come out of the crisis.

    I do completely understand that some people unfortunately will have serious financial issues after been impacted job wise by Covid-19 and in their cases a golf sub may be a luxury that they can ill-afford. I would hope that clubs in this case can be sympathetic with genuine cases.


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    #68
    Ah_go_on
    Registered Users Posts: 144 ✭✭Ah_go_on


    Mantis Toboggan wrote: »
    2 months credit announced by my club. Good move imo, keeps everyone happy and encourages people to pay their sub.

    Sounds like a good idea. I’m feeling a bit of pain, just joined new club 2 weeks ago and handed over €1700+ sub for the year up front, managed a single game before the lockdown. I knew at the time there was a risk of closure but was happy to get my foot in the door. Hopefully they will freeze or extend renewal.


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    #69
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,291 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    Golfhead65 wrote: »
    Just wondering what everyone will do about membership fees if golf clubs are forced to close ?? If you paid upfront will you be credited, if you are on DD do you suspend ??

    If your financial situation hasn’t changed I’d say the moral thing is to keep paying it. Otherwise the club will close. If you have lost your earnings you need to look after number 1.


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    #70
    Kiith
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators Posts: 23,068 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kiith


    I'm paying by DD, and i'll keep paying i think. Only a new member, but i'm lucky enough to not be massively impacted by the lockdown (financially speaking).

    If things were to change, i would definitely consider stopping though.


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    #71
    redzerdrog
    Registered Users Posts: 7,750 ✭✭✭redzerdrog


    My ex club you pay a year in advance. So everyone has paid for this year already and the direct debits currently being paid are for next seasons subs.

    Few of the lads have stopped their subs but that still gona have to pay for next season regardless


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    #72
    GolfNut33
    Registered Users Posts: 352 ✭✭GolfNut33


    Hearing of lads stopping their DD. I'm thinking they mustn't be too attached to their club or its well being. I'm a club man through and through and would be happy to pay a little extra if they asked for some help. That's just me though.


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    #73
    youcancallmeal
    Registered Users Posts: 7,988 ✭✭✭youcancallmeal


    I wouldn't say I'm a true 'club man' but I'll still be paying my DD because my job is safe(for now) and I would be hard pressed to find another good course near me that doesn't have ridiculous joining fees. I think it's understandable if some people are stopping their DD, they don't want to be paying for something and getting nothing in return. Obviously it isn't nothing if it keeps the club afloat and course in good condition but I guess many will be happy to go elsewhere if their club does close permanently.


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    #74
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,057 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    In a strange way, the current situation is likely to see the return of demand outstripping supply and the re-introduction of entrance fees.

    I'm expecting a significant number of closures, which will lead to increased demand when this is all over.
    Also many clubs will have been burned by members abandoning them (at no loss to the member) a joining fee would severely limit any future occurrences of that IMO.


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    #75
    Ah_go_on
    Registered Users Posts: 144 ✭✭Ah_go_on


    GreeBo wrote: »
    In a strange way, the current situation is likely to see the return of demand outstripping supply and the re-introduction of entrance fees.

    I'm expecting a significant number of closures, which will lead to increased demand when this is all over.
    Also many clubs will have been burned by members abandoning them (at no loss to the member) a joining fee would severely limit any future occurrences of that IMO.

    That’s quite a good point, members very unlikely to swap clubs if a joining fee has already been paid.


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    #76
    dan_ep82
    Registered Users Posts: 2,694 ✭✭✭dan_ep82


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Why would you expect a payment holiday? What expenses have disappeared from your course while you are not playing?


    Because I cannot afford to pay it at present, what other reason would there be? :confused:


    Paying later is the only thing I can do. My expenses have not disappeared, in fact they are looking bigger than ever with hours being cut down dramatically and I know its worse for others who are out of work completely.


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    #77
    Sultan_of_Ping
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Sultan_of_Ping


    etxp wrote: »
    I haven't paid yet, and don't intend to pay unless I can start playing which wont be anytime soon. at this stage I think I will hold out for membership for next year. Club usually does an 15 month offer around October time.

    Quite possible that a number of clubs deprived of membership fees, green fees, catering and bar revenues etc won't be around in October to offer anything.

    I think clubs that have a strong "local" membership will struggle but be ok - members like me who live close to their club will pay because the convenience of having a club in close proximity is valuable.

    Members of clubs travelling from further afield, who maybe don't get a chance to play mid-week or be involved in a greater range of club activities probably don't feel as great a connection with their club - and may be less willing to stump up for their membership.

    It's also quite possible that no deals will be forthcoming - if more than a few clubs go to the wall, then fewer clubs means less opportunities to play golf, means higher demands on clubs that survive - combine that with an understandable desire for clubs to try and recover some losses and the probability of deals on any decent course being offered is likely to be low.


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    #78
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,057 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    dan_ep82 wrote: »
    Because I cannot afford to pay it at present, what other reason would there be? :confused:


    Paying later is the only thing I can do. My expenses have not disappeared, in fact they are looking bigger than ever with hours being cut down dramatically and I know its worse for others who are out of work completely.

    Yep, but its also worse for your club who have no income and still have pretty much the same expenses....that was my point.
    How do you expect your club to survive?


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    #79
    dan_ep82
    Registered Users Posts: 2,694 ✭✭✭dan_ep82


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Yep, but its also worse for your club who have no income and still have pretty much the same expenses....that was my point.
    How do you expect your club to survive?
    I have my priorities, and golf comes second to my home and family, how could it not?



    If you have the money for both great but don't try to shame me because I can't afford it in the middle of a pandemic.


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    #80
    Mantis Toboggan
    Registered Users Posts: 17,670 ✭✭✭✭Mantis Toboggan


    If golf clubs go under it will be more than covid 19 which will have caused it. Until recently we had a general manager of the course on 90k a year and he did very little around the place. Mostly was unpaid volunteers that did a lot of the donkey work.

    These clubs aren't charities and in some cases are badly run. My club won't go under but this virus will expose the poorly run clubs.

    Free Palestine 🇵🇸



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    #81
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,057 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    dan_ep82 wrote: »
    I have my priorities, and golf comes second to my home and family, how could it not?



    If you have the money for both great but don't try to shame me because I can't afford it in the middle of a pandemic.

    I'm not trying to shame you tbf, just pointing out the implications for your club.


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    #82
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,057 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    Mantis Toboggan wrote: »
    If golf clubs go under it will be more than covid 19 which will have caused it. Until recently we had a general manager of the course on 90k a year and he did very little around the place. Mostly was unpaid volunteers that did a lot of the donkey work.

    These clubs aren't charities and in some cases are badly run. My club won't go under but this virus will expose the poorly run clubs.

    Did you expect the GM to be out filling divots or running the business?


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    #83
    FixdePitchmark
    Registered Users Posts: 20,801 ✭✭✭✭FixdePitchmark


    GreeBo wrote: »
    If you expect the course and clubhouse to be in the same condition when you return to golf, then you have to expect to pay to keep it in that condition.

    Grass growth isnt on lockdown (yet!)

    I don't think this is accurate. Nobody expects everything to be as it was from the off - it will be a rebuild.

    Friends of mine have let go 20/30 people in the space of a week - golf courses are going to let people go into the Covid Scheme. That is the function of the scheme ?

    All non critical golf course services haves stopped.

    Golf courses could be maintained to a much lesser standard - as was the case during Nama - Rathsalalgh / Killerig were closed with minimal maintenance for years.

    All significant large scale projects in golf courses have stopped.

    Energy / Heating / rates / insurance / materials / will all be reviewed altered / reduced.

    I'm going to support my club fully.

    But the operational costs will reduce at golf clubs , if it is managed right.
    as difficult as that is going to be - it is our new reality.

    Even if I intend to fully support them, the clubs that will ride this out successfully are the ones that engage with the new realities quickly, cut costs quickly and support their members quickly.

    Very wealthy clubs could ride this out fully (a handful) - but that is not the reality for the vast majority.


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    #84
    fullstop
    Registered Users Posts: 11,305 ✭✭✭✭fullstop


    blackwhite wrote: »
    Good friend of mine is a member in same club as Greebo (unless Greebo has changed clubs in last 2 years).

    New baby due next month and after buying a new house meant that golf membership was under pressure. Club were happy for him to switch to Pavillion membership for next 2/3 years with no re-application of their joining fee whenever he decides to rejoin as a full member.

    Why on earth would they make someone pay the joining fee twice, even if he did have to step away for a couple of years?


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    #85
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,057 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    fullstop wrote: »
    Why on earth would they make someone pay the joining fee twice, even if he did have to step away for a couple of years?

    Well if you leave and you subsequently want to rejoin then you pay the joining fee...?


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    #86
    fullstop
    Registered Users Posts: 11,305 ✭✭✭✭fullstop


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Well if you leave and you subsequently want to rejoin then you pay the joining fee...?

    You’ve already paid the joining fee, to join...asking someone to pay it twice is ridiculous.


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    #87
    Sultan_of_Ping
    Registered Users Posts: 436 ✭✭Sultan_of_Ping


    fullstop wrote: »
    You’ve already paid the joining fee, to join...asking someone to pay it twice is ridiculous.

    Maybe, but we live in fairly "ridiculous" (as in exceptional) times - it's quite possible, in my view, that if a club is lokoing to fill membership slots and the choice is between a prodigal member and a new member who they can also get a joining fee from, they may well be inclined to go for the latter over the former.

    I'd suggest anyone consider suspending their membership or deferring paying, or not paying with the intention of re-joining next year talk to their club - most clubs, you'd hope, would be understanding of the fact that a lot of people are out of work or on much reduced earnings, and would look to accommodate people to help them get through and get back, eventually, to golf - it would be counter-productive not to, as no one is going to prioritise feeding their family over their golf....

    .....although a few more weeks locked up with them and I just might :D:D


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    #88
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,057 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    fullstop wrote: »
    You’ve already paid the joining fee, to join...asking someone to pay it twice is ridiculous.

    Yeah, you joined and paid the fee...you then left:confused:


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    #89
    fullstop
    Registered Users Posts: 11,305 ✭✭✭✭fullstop


    GreeBo wrote: »
    Yeah, you joined and paid the fee...you then left:confused:

    But you’re paying your annual subs to play the course, on top of the joining fee. The joining fee, IMO, is to get your foot in the door with the club (and probably to separate the wheat from the chaff in a way) so should be a once off, IMO, unless you leave for a number of years. If it’s a case of not having time to play for a couple of years or not having the finances I’d expect any club worth joining would waive paying a second joining fee.


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    #90
    GreeBo
    Registered Users Posts: 27,057 ✭✭✭✭GreeBo


    fullstop wrote: »
    But you’re paying your annual subs to play the course, on top of the joining fee. The joining fee, IMO, is to get your foot in the door with the club (and probably to separate the wheat from the chaff in a way) so should be a once off, IMO, unless you leave for a number of years. If it’s a case of not having time to play for a couple of years or not having the finances I’d expect any club worth joining would waive paying a second joining fee.


    I've already said that if you talk to your club they may be willing to help you out, I know mine has in the past.
    But if you just stop paying the club has to assume that you are done with them and want to leave.
    I certainly wouldnt expect the joining fee to be waived, why would the club ignore that income if there is someone else willing to pay it?


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    #91
    blackwhite
    Registered Users Posts: 8,519 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    fullstop wrote: »
    Why on earth would they make someone pay the joining fee twice, even if he did have to step away for a couple of years?

    In his specific case he'd come through as a junior member, and as a result paid a significantly discounting joining fee when he became a full member.

    No idea how they handle it for someone who paid full rate when originally joining.


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