Why is the Communist Party of Ireland unpopular?

pcardin · 01-12-2018 7:11pm

As the others have already mentioned it's a failed ideology, pure evil and destructive. And, as the one who experienced living in the former communist controlled stated back in '80 ties, I can tell you for sure - please hang anyone who is even remotely suggesting communism. Evil must be removed at the very earliest stage.

pcardin · 01-12-2018 7:13pm

The Tetrarch wrote: »

Go with the idea of free stuff, everyone equal, profit is bad, and you end up with the state employing four million people to make boring products.
And everyone is worse off.

except that in communism some always have been way more equal than others and same rules don't apply.

Get Real · 01-12-2018 7:16pm

DS86DS wrote: »

Interestingly, Angela Merkel was involved in the East Germany state during her younger years. Why this hasn't been investigated further I don't know.

I'm open to correction on this, but as far as I'm aware, she entered politics in East Germany in 1989 in order to change that system. Which subsequently happened. She wasn't involved in the governing of East Germany as it was run back then.

She was involved in the movement to make it democratic, and is anti communist. So to say she was involved in the East German state is unfair imo. Based on what I understand anyway.

Raheem Euro · 01-12-2018 7:21pm

Technically everyone who was ever born in, or lived in East Germany was "involved" in the East German state.

topmanamillion · 01-12-2018 7:26pm

Ubi feles est? wrote: »

As above.

Also, why do they not field candidates at elections?

According to Wikipedia, they fielded 2 candidates in the 2014 local elections (Combined 215 votes)
And a woman called Lynda Walker ran in Cork North West General Elections 2016 (185 votes)

oceanman · 01-12-2018 8:26pm

its a lot to do with human nature, human beings are predominantly greedy therefore capitalism always wins out over communism.

Bobtheman · 01-12-2018 10:08pm

I think after 1990 communism lost all credibility. It now only exists in what two countries one of which is north Korea.
But even in it's heyday it never got much traction here. Nationalism took centre stage . We also didn't have that much of a working class to ignite any class struggle.
Throw in the dominance of the church which meant supporting an atheist party was difficult for pious paddy.

Esel · 01-12-2018 10:18pm

Would they get the Latin vote?

topmanamillion · 01-12-2018 10:33pm

Bobtheman wrote: »

I think after 1990 communism lost all credibility. It now only exists in what two countries one of which is north Korea.

The other is China with 1.3 billion people + 100 million more in Vietnam!

I don't know what Russia would call itself but its not a democracy and there's an awful lot of state involvement in private business. Plus they have a "president" for life.

emptyhouse2222 · 01-12-2018 10:39pm

to be fair to the commies
they have one good point about divvying up the land of ireland and giving every citizen 5 acres
that would be amazing, instead of living on top of each other in horrible estates everyone has their own little 5 acre patch

paleoperson · 02-12-2018 12:53am

emptyhouse2222 wrote: »

to be fair to the commies
they have one good point about divvying up the land of ireland and giving every citizen 5 acres
that would be amazing, instead of living on top of each other in horrible estates everyone has their own little 5 acre patch

I greatly sympathize with this view, I might even have said the same thing myself a few years ago, but this would be an unmitigated disaster...

I don't want to write a big essay on it but first of all it would be a catastrophe for the remaining wildlife that are left. Right now, a lot of farmland is considered to be semi-natural habitat. If you had people going around everywhere that would all be decimated. Instead of being a green country Ireland would be a barren wasteland for natural wildlife.

Broadly speaking there have been two reactions to the modernization of society over the past few hundred years - there have been those who sold their land and chose to make a living off what they sold and their bare backs, and then there were those families who kept their land until the bitter end. Are you really saying we should give the land back to the latter types all over again?

Some people still somehow manage to convince themselves that overpopulation is not a problem today or not a problem in Ireland... it obviously is! The more people the less room you have, the less food you have, the less water you have, the more carbon footprint etc. Anything that says otherwise is just theoretical economics that exists on paper alone and does not pan out that way in reality. As it is, maybe, just maybe, people who live in shoeboxes will find that actually having tons of kids isn't a great idea and yes we are overpopulated.

Cities are very scary places to me. The amount of people is scary. All those people have to be fed. All those people need water, have waste. The idea that because someone buys and resells real estate or writes apps for a living they can somehow offset their cost by means of "productivity" is kind of farcical. City folk have to live with the choices they made now, it may be painful, but it's the only way they'll learn. Simply giving out a couple of acres to everyone - much of which will likely be resold again on the spot (!), is just like enabling the disaster to get worse.

Communism may get some things right - everyone deserves a place to sleep, things to eat, the rat race is terrible. But if it involves forcibly taking land from people they should not even get the light of day. It's the government who is the bad guy a large proportion of the time.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 02-12-2018 12:59am

emptyhouse2222 wrote: »

to be fair to the commies
they have one good point about divvying up the land of ireland and giving every citizen 5 acres
that would be amazing, instead of living on top of each other in horrible estates everyone has their own little 5 acre patch

Everyone? No room for population growth or immigrants? No place for businesses to build and create jobs?

Why is the Communist Party of Ireland unpopular? Well, simple; communism doesn't work very well.

emptyhouse2222 · 02-12-2018 1:08am

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Everyone? No room for population growth or immigrants? No place for businesses to build and create jobs?

Why is the Communist Party of Ireland unpopular? Well, simple; communism doesn't work very well.

well i don't know
you people are always hating on poor children from inner-city slums

give them a piece of land, and i guarantee you the youths you see as scumbags, will become good at minding their own small patch of land, and maybe even a few animals,
but no
the friends of fine gael and fine fail own the land

ArchXStanton · 02-12-2018 1:12am

Lad I grew up with is always spouting that communism ****e, he's a shinner too, pure brainwashed idiot

emptyhouse2222 · 02-12-2018 1:17am

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Lad I grew up with is always spouting that communism ****e, he's a shinner too, pure brainwashed idiot

all criticism is self-criticism

markodaly · 02-12-2018 1:29am

Communism was a cancer that graced this earth for 90 odd years, thankfully we seemed to have coped on that it will never work due to the fact that it never accounts for the human condition. Doesn't stop some idiot fanboys spouting $hite about it though now and again. Cuba is somehow brought up as an example of it. LOLZ

paleoperson · 02-12-2018 1:35am

markodaly wrote: »

Communism was a cancer that graced this earth for 90 odd years, thankfully we seemed to have coped on that it will never work due to the fact that it never accounts for the human condition. Doesn't stop some idiot fanboys spouting $hite about it though now and again. Cuba is somehow brought up as an example of it. LOLZ

Communism is a failed system. Capitalism doesn't account for the human condition either though... the idea seems to be "greed is part of human nature, so let people be greedy and exploit others"?!

What is needed is a form of capitalism or socialism where it is acknowledged that they're all full of **** at some level and everyone deserves and is owed/owns by right heat, shelter, food, water, dignity... it's not rocket science.

02-12-2018 2:03am

topmanamillion wrote: »

The other is China with 1.3 billion people + 100 million more in Vietnam!

I don't know what Russia would call itself but its not a democracy and there's an awful lot of state involvement in private business. Plus they have a "president" for life.

The only communist thing about China and Vietnam is that they have one-party rule. Their populations are generally far more capitalist than a country like Ireland, and there's far bigger inequality.

Having spent eight years in Vietnam, I'm yet to see any actual communism.

DS86DS · 02-12-2018 2:07am

markodaly wrote: »

Communism was a cancer that graced this earth for 90 odd years, thankfully we seemed to have coped on that it will never work due to the fact that it never accounts for the human condition. Doesn't stop some idiot fanboys spouting $hite about it though now and again. Cuba is somehow brought up as an example of it. LOLZ

I can't stand people wearing Che Guevara t-shirts.

He's portrayed as some noble revolutionary who fought for a better for life for the people. When in reality the truth is that he was a vicious and calculated murderer who put a bullet in anybody who dared got on his wrong side.

https://youtu.be/KdKJ-jHU2UE

whisky_galore · 02-12-2018 2:40am

emptyhouse2222 wrote: »

to be fair to the commies
they have one good point about divvying up the land of ireland and giving every citizen 5 acres
that would be amazing, instead of living on top of each other in horrible estates everyone has their own little 5 acre patch

Most Irish people couldn't grow their own food to save themselves.
It'd be Potato Famine part 2.

It's like Mugabe taking land off of farmers and giving it to people who don't know jack**** about growing food.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 02-12-2018 2:48am

emptyhouse2222 wrote: »

well i don't know
you people are always hating on poor children from inner-city slums

give them a piece of land, and i guarantee you the youths you see as scumbags, will become good at minding their own small patch of land, and maybe even a few animals,
but no
the friends of fine gael and fine fail own the land

You people? What delluision are you reading into that you see “hating on children”? What are you smoking?

Just hand over land to people and the ills of the country are solved? Wow. With such a detailed and proved strategy, what could possibly go wrong.

Junkyard Tom · 02-12-2018 2:56am

oceanman wrote: »

human beings are predominantly greedy therefore capitalism always wins out over communism.

If we take your position that 'humans are greedy' as truth then that acts as an argument for communism (or some system along those lines) to act to prevent greed from leading to self-destruction of the species or indeed the very ecosystem that sustains us.

whisky_galore · 02-12-2018 3:00am

DS86DS wrote: »

I can't stand people wearing Che Guevara t-shirts.

He's portrayed as some noble revolutionary who fought for a better for life for the people. When in reality the truth is that he was a vicious and calculated murderer who put a bullet in anybody who dared got on his wrong side.

https://youtu.be/KdKJ-jHU2UE

Che was a handsome yet bloodthirsty poster boy for socialism who got his come uppance in Bolivia where he was clearly not wanted by those he tried to "save".

j8wk2feszrnpao · 02-12-2018 3:01am

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

If we take your position that 'humans are greedy' as truth then that acts as an argument for communism (or some system along those lines) to act to prevent greed from leading to self-destruction of the species or indeed the very ecosystem that sustains us.

How does it act an argument for Communism? Communism wont remove greed, it’d agitate it further to see someone work half as hard for the same reward.

Stephen15 · 02-12-2018 3:04am

Aren't parties over the years such the United Left Alliance, The Workers Party, Eirigí, Anti Austerity Alliance, PBP, Solidarity and Sinn Fein (to some extent) basically the same thing.

CrabRevolution · 02-12-2018 3:05am

whisky_galore wrote: »

Most Irish people couldn't grow their own food to save themselves.
It'd be Potato Famine part 2.

It's like Mugabe taking land off of farmers and giving it to people who don't know jack**** about growing food.

I was thinking that too, though it's hardly unique to Ireland, no country outside of those in extreme poverty has a population capable of growing 100% of their own food individually.

You'd either end up with:

A. Everyone sells their land to others who amass bigger and bigger farms in order to get over the astronomical inefficiency that having 5 million separate food producers entails. You eventually end up at your start point, where everyone gives up their land to do another job, willing to sacrifice their ownership of land in order to have better and more food produced by those who actually want to farm.

B. Everyone toughs it out on their own patch but quickly resorts to eating a diet of 100% potatoes or carrots as that's all it makes sense to grow.

C. Masses of people just emigrate, leaving behind nobody but whatever farmers the land gets redistributed to. Though these farmers have no money to farm the land since they've no market to sell their produce to.

It also has me wondering, say tomorrow we divide the land into 4.5 million shares...what happens to the next generation if there's 5 million people? Does everyone get their share reduced? Do 500'000 their share halved? Do parents get to farm on their young children's patch? Or elderly parents who can't work the land? Do families get their land next to each other? What does that mean for your neighbour's land if you have several kids?

Is everyone meant to also hold down a normal job while also farming for their lives? Even if you get a patch of land in Donegal despite working in Cork? Or does everyone quit, and we have no industry, services, state etc. and we become the first country to revert to a pre-agricultural revolution state, or probably more of a pre-civilisation state really?

And about a thousand other questions.

Junkyard Tom · 02-12-2018 3:07am

munstermagic11 wrote: »

How does it act an argument for Communism? Communism wont remove greed, it’d agitate it further to see someone work half as hard for the same reward.

Yeah maybe not communism but some system that tempers greed rather than rewards it. Saying 'humans are naturally greedy' is a good reason not to facilitate that nature via a purely capitalist system.

whisky_galore · 02-12-2018 3:10am

CrabRevolution wrote: »

I was thinking that too, though it's hardly unique to Ireland, no country outside of those in extreme poverty has a population capable of growing 100% of their own food individually.

You'd either end up with:

A. Everyone sells their land to others who amass bigger and bigger farms in order to get over the astronomical inefficiency that having 5 million separate food producers entails. You eventually end up at your start point, where everyone gives up their land to do another job, willing to sacrifice their ownership of land in order to have better and more food produced by those who actually want to farm.

B. Everyone toughs it out on their own patch but quickly resorts to eating a diet of 100% potatoes or carrots as that's all it makes sense to grow.

C. Masses of people just emigrate, leaving behind nobody but whatever farmers the land gets redistributed to. Though these farmers have no money to farm the land since they've no market to sell their produce to.

It also has me wondering, say tomorrow we divide the land into 4.5 million shares...what happens to the next generation if there's 5 million people? Does everyone get their share reduced? Do 500'000 their share halved? Do parents get to farm on their young children's patch? Or elderly parents who can't work the land? Do families get their land next to each other? What does that mean for your neighbour's land if you have several kids?

Is everyone meant to also hold down a normal job while also farming for their lives? Even if you get a patch of land in Donegal despite working in Cork? Or does everyone quit, and we have no industry, services, state etc. and we become the first country to revert to a pre-agricultural revolution state, or probably more of a pre-civilisation state really?

And about a thousand other questions.

5 acres of shyte bogland in Donegal won't match 5 acres of good land in the Golden Vale in terms of food production either.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 02-12-2018 3:22am

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Yeah maybe not communism but some system that tempers greed rather than rewards it. Saying 'humans are naturally greedy' is a good reason not to facilitate that nature via a purely capitalist system.

Maybe not, but it’s the best system we have until someone creates something better. Facilitating greed isn’t always a negative; it can drive people to succeed, which can benefit others.

fiveleavesleft · 02-12-2018 3:28am

Stephen15 wrote: »

Aren't parties over the years such the United Left Alliance, The Workers Party, Eirigí, Anti Austerity Alliance, PBP, Solidarity and Sinn Fein (to some extent) basically the same thing.

Fair enough, but if your gonna use that broad a brush you'll have to add Fianna Fail & most definitely the Labour party in your swoosh.

Junkyard Tom · 02-12-2018 3:58am

munstermagic11 wrote: »

Facilitating greed isn’t always a negative

Greed doesn't need to be facilitated - it has its own inherent inertia without helping it along. I'm guessing that greed in prehistoric times would have gotten you booted out of the cave to fend for yourself where you would have been eaten by the local dinosaur.

If you had triplets and one of them was a hungry fucker and was allowed to eat the other two's food because 'LOL, humans are greedy' then you'd be left with two starving children and a fat bastard.

suicide_circus · 02-12-2018 4:31am

In the Soviet Union any unemployed person found by the authorities was given a job. And when I say given, this wasn't a choice. Everyone works. The welfare state in which grown adults can choose not to work is a luxury made possible by capitalism.

AllForIt · 02-12-2018 4:43am

Watch the movie Citizen X, a fantastic movie. It really gives you a sense of what communism is like. I'm not sure if that was partly the intention of the movie as it was primarily about a Russian detective who tracks down a serial killer, based on a true story I think. But for me if portrays a very grim picture of communism in Russia and when I watched it gave me a real understanding of what communism is all about.

Rjd2 · 02-12-2018 5:00am

Its very scary how many young people online think communism is wonderful. Its easy to dismiss such people normally, but they will be running the world someday.

Ideally it should be looked upon with the same contempt as fascism, two horrific ideologies which have caused so much damage to the world.

fiveleavesleft · 02-12-2018 5:30am

Rjd2 wrote: »

Its very scary how many young people online think communism is wonderful. Its easy to dismiss such people normally, but they will be running the world someday.

Ideally it should be looked upon with the same contempt as fascism, two horrific ideologies which have caused so much damage to the world.

Arrah! pull yourself together man! Many a young person who held a candle for Communism in their youth ended up "running the world" & the sky didn't fall in.

As to your second point, you obviously need a lie down in a darkened room.

paw patrol · 02-12-2018 7:26am

fiveleavesleft wrote: »

As to your second point, you obviously need a lie down in a darkened room.

he is right so whats your point?

communism where it was enforced was as barbaric than anything fascism dreamt up. With a body count that makes Hitler seem amateur at genocide.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 02-12-2018 8:53am

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I'm guessing that greed in prehistoric times would have gotten you booted out of the cave to fend for yourself where you would have been eaten by the local dinosaur.

Or that greedy prehistoric person could have risen to a position of authority and directed the rest of those in the cave towards a path of development, whereby they realise that dinosaurs died out before humans arrived on the scene :P

Edgware · 02-12-2018 8:56am

Esel wrote: »

Would they get the Latin vote?

Vini vidi vici

Edgware · 02-12-2018 9:01am

Rjd2 wrote: »

Its very scary how many young people online think communism is wonderful. Its easy to dismiss such people normally, but they will be running the world someday.

Ideally it should be looked upon with the same contempt as fascism, two horrific ideologies which have caused so much damage to the world.

Don't worry. We have plenty people who when they were young thought that communism and socialism were great ideas. They eventually got a bit of sense with the exception of gob****es like Rich Boy Barrett,, Murphy, Coppinger and the latest media luvvie Rune

facehugger99 · 02-12-2018 9:04am

Rjd2 wrote: »

Its very scary how many young people online think communism is wonderful. Its easy to dismiss such people normally, but they will be running the world someday.

Surprising how quickly people grow up politically when they start woking and paying taxes.

j8wk2feszrnpao · 02-12-2018 9:04am

suicide_circus wrote: »

In the Soviet Union any unemployed person found by the authorities was given a job. And when I say given, this wasn't a choice. Everyone works. The welfare state in which grown adults can choose not to work is a luxury made possible by capitalism.

Yeah, it was great times. You could have been employed in the mass state controlled media, or thrust into the employment of the KGB to spread terror and suppress the population, or maybe an officer in the Gulag where you get to witness the suffering of many people who dared to exert freedom of speech against the government. Ah, nostalgic.

02-12-2018 9:08am

facehugger99 wrote: »

Surprising how quickly people grow up politically when they start woking and paying taxes.

this is it

when youre young and well used to being told what to do, have no money and everything is unfair, then sure, communism why not, cant be any worse right?

then you actually get a job and some cash and get to buy some stuff and stay up past your bedtime whenever you want and ... communism? fcuk off this sh1t here is mine i paid for it

representative democracy with a decent social safety net has a lot going for it, in that you can be as commie as you like without ever having to shoot any comrades for the cause, and as capitalist pig as you like as long as you pay your taxes. and everyone gets to complain about the system!

pjohnson · 02-12-2018 9:37am

facehugger99 wrote: »

Surprising how quickly people grow up politically when they start woking and paying taxes.

Strange thought that the AH workers would say they are the opposite of "woke"

HappyAsLarE · 02-12-2018 10:20am

I am sick to my teeth of having to explain how deplorable communism is to young lads that think it would solve all our issues in Ireland.

In fairness to them they are just thick.

ArchXStanton · 02-12-2018 10:27am

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

I am sick to my teeth of having to explain how deplorable communism is to young lads that think it would solve all our issues in Ireland.

In fairness to them they are just thick.

Just ask them were has it worked... And watch them tie themselves in knots

HappyAsLarE · 02-12-2018 10:29am

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Just ask them were has it worked... And watch them tie themselves in knots

Ah no man but our communism would be done properly. Pure thick.

ArchXStanton · 02-12-2018 10:34am

HappyAsLarE wrote: »

Ah no man but our communism would be done properly. Pure thick.

They all seem to develop that creepy communist look too, I'd rather live in a world were we didn't go around calling each other comrade

rossie1977 · 02-12-2018 10:48am

communism sounds good to some people on paper alot like laissez-faire capitalism but is much different when put into practice.

Communism can't work without there being a democratic system in place. However the people in charge usually become autocratic and the state totalitarian because humans by their very nature once they gain total power they want to keep it that way.

Btw why is a thread started by a banned poster still open?

02-12-2018 11:17am

emptyhouse2222 wrote: »

to be fair to the commies
they have one good point about divvying up the land of ireland and giving every citizen 5 acres
that would be amazing, instead of living on top of each other in horrible estates everyone has their own little 5 acre patch

That policy must have been written about thirty years ago in inner city Dublin.
With population growth we are down to about 3.5 acres per person and a boggy acre up the side of a mountain in connemara isn't the same as a well drained fertile acre somewhere else in the country. Still though a hungry, dispersed population should be easier to control.

emptyhouse2222 wrote: »

well i don't know
you people are always hating on poor children from inner-city slums

give them a piece of land, and i guarantee you the youths you see as scumbags, will become good at minding their own small patch of land, and maybe even a few animals,
but no
the friends of fine gael and fine fail own the land

Throw them out into the country without skills or capital would be a recipe for disaster. I am imagining Holodomor or Pol Pot emptying the cities.

Edit: I'm curious how anything else would be done if everyone was scratching away on their five acres.

Atoms for Peace · 02-12-2018 11:30am

The communist manifesto still makes perfect sense but how to actually implement those ideas in real life is the tricky bit. Israel is probably the most successful country founded partially on leftist principles, but of course that doesn't compute in the current stale left-wing ideology.

Why is the Communist Party of Ireland unpopular?

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