Four year old undergoing sex change

mdwexford · 03-09-2016 5:32pm #1

http://www.unilad.co.uk/sensitive/child-aged-four-receiving-help-to-undergo-sex-change/

The world is officially crazy when things like this are allowed to happen.

Not even the most ardent supporters of this kind of thing can defend this surely. A four year old has close to zero concept of the impact of this decision.

Widdershins · 03-09-2016 5:36pm

I won't be surprised if that child sues its state or needs a second gender - reassignment as an adult, after being put through this at an age when it can't possibly understand the implications and seriousness.

darkpagandeath · 03-09-2016 5:40pm

How does the child enter into the contact ? thought it was 16 -18 to be able to legally without parental sing off.

wandatowell · 03-09-2016 5:41pm

When I was 4 years old I thought Sonic The Hedgehog was real cos my sister told me so.

That kid is gonna every type of ****ed up.

uck51js9zml2yt · 03-09-2016 5:42pm

I'm going back up my pole to sit it out for a few more years.
The world has gone mad

Barry Badrinath · 03-09-2016 5:43pm

A 4 year old knows fcuk all never mind that it should have been born a different gender.

Grayson · 03-09-2016 5:47pm

There's very little detail there. Doesn't say if it's medical treatment or just identifying differently.

I'd be hesitant about making judgements on it because of that it could be the beginnings of therapy etc. It might just be that the child is identifying differently and so they've started the process of actively counselling and studying so that if at a later stage the child is determined to be gender dysmorphic then they can, at that later stage, take action. That's smart. Study and examine just in case.

(I wrote the above and then re-read and saw that the surgical change will take place next year. That does seem far too early. The kid's only been able to speak for a few years. Although I do think there are cases were transitioning can take place before puberty I think that's too early. It's worth waiting and studying to make sure rather than risk making a mistake).

The Raptor · 03-09-2016 5:49pm

What kind of parents would allow this at such a young age?

osarusan · 03-09-2016 5:52pm

EDIT:

Before I post that, can anyvody clarify what 'full transformation' would mean?

My first guess is an operation, but I'm hoping I'm wrong. Maybe it's the process of re-naming and new birth certs and so on?

RobertKK · 03-09-2016 5:53pm

Was the child born a hermaphrodite?

wilser · 03-09-2016 5:57pm

RobertKK wrote: »

Was the child born a hermaphrodite?

No think it was a Pisces.

I'll get me coat

seamus · 03-09-2016 6:02pm

Unilad quoting the mirror and the evening standard.

Yeah, it would be silly to expect any useful information about this story whatsoever.

Widdershins · 03-09-2016 6:06pm

Grayson wrote: »

There's very little detail there. Doesn't say if it's medical treatment or just identifying differently.

I'd be hesitant about making judgements on it because of that it could be the beginnings of therapy etc. It might just be that the child is identifying differently and so they've started the process of actively counselling and studying so that if at a later stage the child is determined to be gender dysmorphic then they can, at that later stage, take action. That's smart. Study and examine just in case.

(I wrote the above and then re-read and saw that the surgical change will take place next year. That does seem far too early. The kid's only been able to speak for a few years. Although I do think there are cases were transitioning can take place before puberty I think that's too early. It's worth waiting and studying to make sure rather than risk making a mistake).

I mostly agree but I wonder if the scrutiny of actively counselling and studying in itself would be harmful. I'd like to know what brought the parent/s to this point in the first place. Was it excessive scrutiny of the childs preferences or something?

strandroad · 03-09-2016 6:09pm

RobertKK wrote: »

Was the child born a hermaphrodite?

It's likely I'd say. In the old times they would operate soon after birth to assign whatever gender the parents and doctors felt was right. Today they wait until the child starts displaying preferences, even if the child looks in a certain way initially it might prefer to be the other gender.

Riddle101 · 03-09-2016 6:09pm

Children should be unable to make such a decision without their parents consent at least, so i have to wonder where they fall in this. Are they actually allowing their child to go through with it? I mean even transgender advocates think the child is too young. This is totally messed up.

SEPT 23 1989 · 03-09-2016 6:13pm

Every whack job connected with this decision should be jailed

nullzero · 03-09-2016 6:15pm

My four year old can't decide what she'd like for dinner, this level of decision making for a small child is beyond strange.

seamus · 03-09-2016 6:16pm

Widdershins wrote: »

I mostly agree but I wonder if the scrutiny of actively counselling and studying in itself would be harmful. I'd like to know what brought the parent/s to this point in the first place. Was it excessive scrutiny of the childs preferences or something?

Children have no filter, you'd be surprised how quickly and strongly gender identity asserts itself. It caught me by surprise, I always assumed you wouldn't see stereotypical boy/girl differentiation until they started school.

Since she was about 18 months, my daughter has been declaring to all and sundry that she's a girl. And while overall she'd certainly be bought more girly things than boyish ones, she has always shown a clear preference towards girly clothes and imitating her mother more than her father.
She doesn't necessarily prefer girly toys, even decided at one point that she was going to be a builder when she grows up. But there's no denying she's a girl, even if it wasn't biologically obvious.

So I can see how you'd easily start thinking something is off if your female toddler started declaring that she was a boy or wanted to be a boy and wanted to dress like a boy and associate with male relations more than female ones.

PucaMama · 03-09-2016 6:22pm

It's a 4 year old ffs how would a 4 year old know how to ask for gender reassignment??? Parents attention seeking and doctors are worse for going along with it.

Widdershins · 03-09-2016 6:23pm

seamus wrote: »

Children have no filter, you'd be surprised how quickly and strongly gender identity asserts itself. It caught me by surprise, I always assumed you wouldn't see stereotypical boy/girl differentiation until they started school.

Since she was about 18 months, my daughter has been declaring to all and sundry that she's a girl. And while overall she'd certainly be bought more girly things than boyish ones, she has always shown a clear preference towards girly clothes and imitating her mother more than her father.
She doesn't necessarily prefer girly toys, even decided at one point that she was going to be a builder when she grows up. But there's no denying she's a girl, even if it wasn't biologically obvious.

So I can see how you'd easily start thinking something is off if your female toddler started declaring that she was a boy or wanted to be a boy and wanted to dress like a boy and associate with male relations more than female ones.

If my toddler did I would first look at the kind of language I use around them, do I give them any reason to think that boys or girls can do certain things better, for example. That's why I want to know more about this case.

GLaDOS · 03-09-2016 6:24pm

seamus wrote: »

Unilad quoting the mirror and the evening standard.

Yeah, it would be silly to expect any useful information about this story whatsoever.

In the absence of a decent report I'm just assuming its bog standard outrage journalism.

Tasden · 03-09-2016 6:25pm

seamus wrote: »

Children have no filter, you'd be surprised how quickly and strongly gender identity asserts itself. It caught me by surprise, I always assumed you wouldn't see stereotypical boy/girl differentiation until they started school.

Since she was about 18 months, my daughter has been declaring to all and sundry that she's a girl. And while overall she'd certainly be bought more girly things than boyish ones, she has always shown a clear preference towards girly clothes and imitating her mother more than her father.
She doesn't necessarily prefer girly toys, even decided at one point that she was going to be a builder when she grows up. But there's no denying she's a girl, even if it wasn't biologically obvious.

So I can see how you'd easily start thinking something is off if your female toddler started declaring that she was a boy or wanted to be a boy and wanted to dress like a boy and associate with male relations more than female ones.

How much of that is her and how much is her environment. If you guys referred to her as a boy- good boy etc- and she was only given the choice of "male" things, maybe the odd female toy thrown in, would she still declare herself a girl? I mean it's a straight forward case- everybody knows and accepts she is a "girl".

If parents are very strict in not attributing genders and allowing "the child" (as opposed to daughter/son) develop their own gender identity I would say the child would not identify so easily.

Then again there are cases where parents do everything to attribute the "correct" gender and actively enforce it and then the child feels the opposite. It's a complex issue.

03-09-2016 6:43pm

When I was four I wanted to be a boy, because I had two brothers, the older of which constantly reminding me that boys were better than girls. I was also a tomboy, I wasn't into pink and dolls. I constantly (and vocal about it too) wished I was a boy. Thank feck no one took me seriously!!

D0NNELLY · 03-09-2016 6:46pm

No real news outlets picking this up.. odd.

HamsterFace · 03-09-2016 7:49pm

seamus wrote:

Children have no filter, you'd be surprised how quickly and strongly gender identity asserts itself. It caught me by surprise, I always assumed you wouldn't see stereotypical boy/girl differentiation until they started school.

So, have we thrown out the idea that gender is a social construct?

Genuine question, not trying to be a smart arse

seamus · 03-09-2016 8:02pm

HamsterFace wrote: »

So, have we thrown out the idea that gender is a social construct?

Genuine question, not trying to be a smart arse

yes and no. As Tasden says, it's a complex topic.

There are some thing which are clear social constructs - pink for girls, blue for boys. Male jobs -v- female jobs, etc. These are matters of fashion, not the result of genetically determined behaviours.

Other things not so much. Most experiments which have attempted to raise children gender neutral have "failed" insofar as the genders have continued to tend towards their stereotypes.

myshirt · 03-09-2016 8:06pm

When did doctors, scientists and other sane people become the quacks in this scenario? Seems to have become outrageous to say THERE ARE ONLY TWO SEXES.

F*ck biology is the norm.

myshirt · 03-09-2016 8:10pm

Seems a bit strange that women are shouting loud for equality when it comes to jobs in air conditioned offices, but not so loud when it comes to jobs in the sewers or in sweeping streets.

conorhal · 03-09-2016 8:11pm

Grayson wrote: »

There's very little detail there. Doesn't say if it's medical treatment or just identifying differently.

I'd be hesitant about making judgements on it because of that it could be the beginnings of therapy etc. It might just be that the child is identifying differently and so they've started the process of actively counselling and studying so that if at a later stage the child is determined to be gender dysmorphic then they can, at that later stage, take action. That's smart. Study and examine just in case.

(I wrote the above and then re-read and saw that the surgical change will take place next year. That does seem far too early. The kid's only been able to speak for a few years. Although I do think there are cases were transitioning can take place before puberty I think that's too early. It's worth waiting and studying to make sure rather than risk making a mistake).

I'll try to find it but I distinctly remember reading a study that stated 80% of young children that identify as trans don't anymore by the age of 7 or 8. Even if the study was flawed, children's fluid understanding of reality makes me question the actions of this child's parents. At 4 I wanted to be dinosaur. It's lunacy to to make assumptions about a child identity when you barely have one at that age.
If even a minority of young trans children would prefer to identify as their own gender after growing up a bit than it is too risky to proceed until they can make full and informed consent, IMO what these parents are doing is actually doing is abuse facilitated by ideologues that would rather harm children to advance an agenda then wait and be sure.

Outlaw Pete · 03-09-2016 8:14pm

Daddy or chips or transgenderism.

ceadaoin. · 03-09-2016 8:31pm

I read this the other day. Clearly a four year old is not undergoing a 'sex change'. It's referring to social transition, so changing name and everyone referring to them as a girl etc.

I have no idea what the basis for this is but going by previous cases it's probably something like they like dresses and stereotypical girls toys and the parents decided that means trans.. 4 years old is too young to understand something like this.

Four year old undergoing sex change

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