Cork Northern Distributor Road

marno21 · 17-05-2019 10:46pm #1

The publication of the CMATS public consultation this week has revealed a plan for the Cork Northern Distributor Road, an inner north ring.

This is likely to be fairly costly given the terrain it will cross.

Cork Trucker · 30-07-2019 9:54am

An interesting development in today's paper

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Planning-refusal-hints-at-progress-on-Corks-Northern-Ring-Road--fe066f2d-8e74-47d5-a9e7-19557234edb5-ds

CORK politicians are seeking answers on Government plans for a Northern Ring Road in the city after a developer was denied permission for a housing estate extension as the site is too close to the preferred route.

30-07-2019 9:58am

Should it not encircle the city? So outside Blarney and Da 'Collig?

It'll just be a commuter road, where it is, driving housing development along it and choking it up. M50 anyone?

AugustusMinimus · 30-07-2019 10:22am

Deleted User wrote: »

Should it not encircle the city? So outside Blarney and Da 'Collig?

It'll just be a commuter road, where it is, driving housing development along it and choking it up. M50 anyone?

This is separate to the NRR and is meant for local traffic movements.

The planning permission denied is for the route of the NRR and not this road.

Cork Trucker · 30-07-2019 10:25am

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

This is separate to the NRR and is meant for local traffic movements.

The planning permission denied is for the route of the NRR and not this road.

I've asked for the posts to be moved.

30-07-2019 10:55am

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

This is separate to the NRR and is meant for local traffic movements.

The planning permission denied is for the route of the NRR and not this road.

Ah I mis-read

Still think that the NRR should be outside Blarney

Does the NDR still come down Mayfield/Silversprings?

Limerick74 · 30-07-2019 2:13pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Ah I mis-read

Still think that the NRR should be outside Blarney

Does the NDR still come down Mayfield/Silversprings?

See the map at the top of the thread.

30-07-2019 3:50pm

Yeah I am on mobile and it LOOKS like it does, just want someone to confirm the lunacy of it

SeanW · 03-08-2019 2:41pm

When I lived in Cork it was nearly impossible to drive directly from somewhere like Victoria Cross out to the Mallow Road. You had to either go into the City Centre and take the N20 out from there or go all the way around the South Ring and onto city street/road hybrids to get to the Blarney Bypass. The few times I tried to do a movement like that directly it was ... interesting to say the least.

Along with light rail, electrification of their suburban network and a proper ring road bypass, Cork would be doing well if it had everything that is now proposed.

03-08-2019 6:32pm

SeanW wrote: »

When I lived in Cork it was nearly impossible to drive directly from somewhere like Victoria Cross out to the Mallow Road.

Up to Anglers Rest, out to Muskerry, Blarney, Mallow road

Cork Trucker · 03-08-2019 6:38pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Up to Anglers Rest, out to Muskerry, Blarney, Mallow road

The people of Cloghroe/Tower will be upset you forgot them :pac:

marno21 · 03-08-2019 6:39pm

For the western quadrant, there are many options but of course all of them are L roads, barely wide enough in places to fit 2 cars, with lots of junctions and accesses, loss of priority, steep gradients etc etc

For a city the size of Cork, before you consider that that section of the city ring has the city’s biggest employee along it, it’s totally inadequate. The fact that it’s a struggle to get anything of note advanced along there is worse.

03-08-2019 6:44pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

The people of Cloghroe/Tower will be upset you forgot them :pac:

They don't count, just west Blarney

SeanW · 04-08-2019 12:24pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Up to Anglers Rest, out to Muskerry, Blarney, Mallow road

Cork Trucker wrote: »

The people of Cloghroe/Tower will be upset you forgot them :pac:

Meh, I couldn't tell you about any of those places, I just remember getting lost

:pac:

Really needs a proper road by right, going out that way.

Cork Trucker · 04-08-2019 12:31pm

SeanW wrote: »

Meh, I couldn't tell you about any of those places, I just remember getting lost :pac:

Really needs a proper road by right, going out that way.

All i know is from Great Gas at Leemount Cross to Cloghroe is one of the worst roads i've driven in a rig, between the bends and the humpback bridge you wouldn't want to be lifting it unless you think you're Michael Knight or Bo & Luke Duke

I've seen many a vehicle hit the ditch along there over the years

Cork Trucker · 26-06-2020 10:14am

https://twitter.com/tfitzgeraldcork/status/1276427443826495488?s=21

marno21 · 28-06-2020 6:48pm

Tender has gone out for route selection:

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders/ViewNotice/231846

marno21 · 08-10-2020 2:10pm

Housing development in Mayfield refused due to potential corridor infringement

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40061141.html

Cork Trucker · 08-10-2020 2:19pm

marno21 wrote: »

Housing development in Mayfield refused due to potential corridor infringement

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/munster/arid-40061141.html

Is this site in question the waste land behind the fox and hounds where a Tesco was once proposed?

rounders · 08-10-2020 4:05pm

Its on that long field that run between the road at the back of the horse and hound and the current North Ring Road!

Just a comment on the article, two very different reasons listed as reject reasons. Road and ecological park don't normally go hand and hand

Cork Trucker · 08-10-2020 6:16pm

rounders wrote: »

Its on that long field that run between the road at the back of the horse and hound and the current North Ring Road!

Just a comment on the article, two very different reasons listed as reject reasons. Road and ecological park don't normally go hand and hand

I’m convinced it’s the bog land between the north ring road and the Banduff road right behind the housing estate where the fox and hounds is

rounders · 08-10-2020 6:25pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

I’m convinced it’s the bog land between the north ring road and the Banduff road right behind the housing estate where the fox and hounds is

I think it's a Floodplain

Cork Trucker · 08-10-2020 6:35pm

rounders wrote: »

I think it's a Floodplain

I did hear that before, plus it’s full of wildlife

yogmeister · 09-10-2020 7:54am

The only wildlife I ever see in there is rats and travellers horses. And it s used for fly tipping.

Cork Trucker · 09-10-2020 8:38am

yogmeister wrote: »

The only wildlife I ever see in there is rats and travellers horses. And it s used for fly tipping.

Accurate enough, have seen the odd fox and badger over the years but not a regular occurrence, they most likely come from the Rathcooney Road passing through

mydiscworld · 09-10-2020 10:55am

Seems like they mean business not letting any planning through near a potential route.

Cannot see this starting construction before 2030 though or am I being too pessimistic?

Chris_5339762 · 18-11-2020 9:20pm

So as not to clutter up the north ring thread.

Looking at the maps, this will start on the N8 at Tivoli and head straight up the hill past Silversprings, before diverging just past Mayfield. If it takes that route, its snookered from the start. The Tivoli junction is a bottleneck with a HGV unfriendly right hand turn at the top of it, then Mayfield itself is a bottleneck.

Neither can be fixed within the scope of this project. So is it doomed from the start?

18-11-2020 10:34pm

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

So as not to clutter up the north ring thread.

Looking at the maps, this will start on the N8 at Tivoli and head straight up the hill past Silversprings, before diverging just past Mayfield. If it takes that route, its snookered from the start. The Tivoli junction is a bottleneck with a HGV unfriendly right hand turn at the top of it, then Mayfield itself is a bottleneck.

Neither can be fixed within the scope of this project. So is it doomed from the start?

Now add in several hundred homes at the Tivoli docks site...

That hill also runs right through residential areas, and we want to direct MORE HGV's up there?

hans aus dtschl · 22-11-2020 6:52pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Now add in several hundred homes at the Tivoli docks site...

That hill also runs right through residential areas, and we want to direct MORE HGV's up there?

I'm not sure it's intended as a HGV route, but I agree with all concerns raised. re-using the Silversprings to Mayfield section won't work in my opinion.

Chris_5339762 · 22-11-2020 7:09pm

Trouble is though, there really is no other option. Where else could it go?

22-11-2020 8:07pm

Anywhere east of Tivoli junction is nothing but farmland. Steep incline would need to be dealt with but not insurmountable.

Pete_Cavan · 22-11-2020 8:48pm

The Distributor Road is intended for local traffic movements and public transport, put it too far out and it no longer fulfills that intended purpose. HGVs will use the M8/NRR, particularly if the Distributor Road is that far out. It would just be a poor version of NRR.

22-11-2020 9:22pm

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The Distributor Road is intended for local traffic movements and public transport, put it too far out and it no longer fulfills that intended purpose. HGVs will use the M8/NRR, particularly if the Distributor Road is that far out. It would just be a poor version of NRR.

300 metres down the way will not put it too far out. I will remove a huge load going right through a residential area

Pete_Cavan · 22-11-2020 10:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

300 metres down the way will not put it too far out. I will remove a huge load going right through a residential area

300m would have it ploughing straight through estates and many houses which is not realistic. It would have to be much further east. Any HGV traffic coming from anywhere east of there, wanting to go to the north of the city, would almost certainly have passed Dunkettle, it should go via M8 and NRR (much of it will probably have come down the M8 already). You seem to want to have an inner NRR.

Most of the traffic in those residential areas likely originates from those residents themselves! Part of the goal of the distributor road is to also provide public transport, there is no point in doing that away from where people live.

23-11-2020 10:11am

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

300m would have it ploughing straight through estates and many houses which is not realistic. It would have to be much further east. Any HGV traffic coming from anywhere east of there, wanting to go to the north of the city, would almost certainly have passed Dunkettle, it should go via M8 and NRR (much of it will probably have come down the M8 already). You seem to want to have an inner NRR.

Most of the traffic in those residential areas likely originates from those residents themselves! Part of the goal of the distributor road is to also provide public transport, there is no point in doing that away from where people live.

Where is the NRR in its process? We could be talking about that for the next 2 decades

hans aus dtschl · 23-11-2020 10:14am

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The Distributor Road is intended for local traffic movements and public transport, put it too far out and it no longer fulfills that intended purpose. HGVs will use the M8/NRR, particularly if the Distributor Road is that far out. It would just be a poor version of NRR.

The biggest problem is probably that Lotabeg/Tinkers Cross is pretty constrained.
A reduced speed "shared street" is about all that could be achieved there.

What you really want on this route is: footpath, cycle lane, bus lane, road lane, on each side. You could certainly collect footpaths and cycle lanes to one side, but you're looking at 4 lanes (bus, private traffic) plus about 5m or 6m of active travel space. There's a few spots between Tivoli and Banduff Road where that will be a challenge.

hans aus dtschl · 23-11-2020 10:16am

Deleted User wrote: »

Where is the NRR in its process? We could be talking about that for the next 2 decades

TBF, we in our dream world here on boards, are expecting NRR and NDR simultaneously.
We're also expecting the port to go to Ringaskiddy, that's another thing that's not yet in place that affects traffic in the area. For instance, when the port moves, the traffic flows at Silversprings will all be a bit different. Is the Ringaskiddy HGV traffic going to start hauling up the M8, or via Tivoli?

23-11-2020 12:27pm

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

TBF, we in our dream world here on boards, are expecting NRR and NDR simultaneously.
We're also expecting the port to go to Ringaskiddy, that's another thing that's not yet in place that affects traffic in the area. For instance, when the port moves, the traffic flows at Silversprings will all be a bit different. Is the Ringaskiddy HGV traffic going to start hauling up the M8, or via Tivoli?

Until the NRR any traffic going there currently will continue to go up Silversprings, I imagine

hans aus dtschl · 23-11-2020 10:55pm

It would be possible to bring the NDR up through New Inn, by going behind the Glanmire grotto.
I don't know the maths on it though in terms of gradient versus available space, it could be too steep.

It would also be possible to go between Lotamore House and Cheshire Home.

I'm not sure either of these are any better than Tivoli.

I can't see any other options.

KrisW1001 · 24-11-2020 11:27am

By definition, a distributor is a local road, not a bypass: it connects neighbourhoods together and links them to the longer distance road network. Trying to find a route that avoids places where people live is defeating the purpose of this route.

The NDR is a single carriageway road, and while it is a wide road, about two-thirds of its total cross-section is devoted to pedestrians, public transport and cyclists. I don't think this is going to be a contentious project. (But then, I didn't think the M28 would have been so strongly opposed either - just shows what a small minority with money can do against the common good)

Cork Trucker · 10-12-2020 6:49pm

Fatal accident in Tinkers Cross this evening. A few people giving out about the amount of trucks going through the area on Facebook

https://twitter.com/corksafetyalert/status/1337078870948913153?s=21

marno21 · 10-12-2020 8:05pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Fatal accident in Tinkers Cross this evening. A few people giving out about the amount of trucks going through the area on Facebook

https://twitter.com/corksafetyalert/status/1337078870948913153?s=21

Unfortunately it remains the signposted route for HGVs between the N20 and the M8/N22/N25/N27/N28/N71 (as you know yourself) and will remain that way for some time. And the Northern Distributor Road won’t be suitable as a HGV bypass either. The only long term solution in this instance is the M40 North Ring

hans aus dtschl · 11-12-2020 12:03pm

Cork Trucker wrote: »

Fatal accident in Tinkers Cross this evening. A few people giving out about the amount of trucks going through the area on Facebook

https://twitter.com/corksafetyalert/status/1337078870948913153?s=21

Collision there on Tuesday morning too.

marno21 · 10-03-2021 3:57pm

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/169216/0/1?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE

Route selection contract awarded to RPS. €349k.

annfield1978 · 11-03-2021 12:39am

marno21 wrote: »

https://irl.eu-supply.com/ctm/Supplier/PublicPurchase/169216/0/1?returnUrl=ctm/Supplier/PublicTenders&b=ETENDERS_SIMPLE

Route selection contract awarded to RPS. €349k.

Very cheap!

marno21 · 11-03-2021 1:08am

annfield1978 wrote: »

Very cheap!

Won't be long on the clock at that value. We should see it soon

NTA's PMGs must be less onerous than TIIs

hans aus dtschl · 11-03-2021 10:23am

marno21 wrote: »

Won't be long on the clock at that value. We should see it soon

NTA's PMGs must be less onerous than TIIs

I missed that it was actually awarded. I thought it was just the tender!

Pete_Cavan · 11-03-2021 10:27am

Probably not a huge amount of route selection to be done here, the options are limited. A bit of analysis of other routes to show they considered everything but they probably expect to be getting down to brass tacks fairly quickly.

AugustusMinimus · 11-03-2021 3:10pm

It looks like we’ll be getting a new bridge over the Lee about half way out the straight road? Has that been confirmed. In addition, will the new road likely have a junction with the Lee Road.

Chris_5339762 · 11-03-2021 3:52pm

Most of this Northern Distributor Road is aspirational anyway. Both this and the Southern equivalent will end up bogged down in the courts.

Theres no way Cork residents will accept a road bisecting the Lee Fields.

hans aus dtschl · 11-03-2021 4:35pm

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Most of this Northern Distributor Road is aspirational anyway. Both this and the Southern equivalent will end up bogged down in the courts.

Theres no way Cork residents will accept a road bisecting the Lee Fields.

You could be right.
How should a distributor and a bypass coexist? Do you keep them away from each other or bring them together? Are there any good international examples?

Cork Northern Distributor Road

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