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When/why did SF become so pro EU ?

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  • 05-11-2019 10:04am
    #1
    Batty Boy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21 ✭


    I remember not long ago, SF were against every EU project/treaty/law/Euro currency, Nowadays their elected representatives are as europhile as FG, using expressions like "Ireland at the heart of Europe"


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    #2
    Robert_Beach
    Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭Robert_Beach


    The Brits went anti-EU so SF adjusted accordingly.


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    #3
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 32,988 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    The wind direction changed.

    Whatever was popular.


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    #4
    maccored
    Registered Users Posts: 10,660 ✭✭✭✭maccored


    SF have always been pro-EU in regards being part of the EU. They have though, exercised their democratic right to object to certain EU treaties. Maybe they're meant to like everything the EU puts forward? Is that what 'Pro EU' means?


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    #5
    NIMAN
    Registered Users Posts: 32,988 ✭✭✭✭NIMAN


    maccored wrote: »
    SF have always been pro-EU in regards being part of the EU. They have though, exercised their democratic right to object to certain EU treaties. Maybe they're meant to like everything the EU puts forward? Is that what 'Pro EU' means?

    They campaigned against every eu treaty.
    Every single one.

    The public would have seen them as anti-EU.


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    #6
    Robert_Beach
    Registered Users Posts: 73 ✭✭Robert_Beach


    maccored wrote: »
    SF have always been pro-EU in regards being part of the EU. They have though, exercised their democratic right to object to certain EU treaties.

    Every single one by my count. And of course they were wailing about how undemocratic a second ref (both times). We keep that quiet now,

    Actually it would be interesting to dig up boards threads from the Nice and Lisbon re-runs and see how the arguments line up with what Nigel Farage is saying now :)


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    #7
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    maccored wrote: »
    SF have always been pro-EU in regards being part of the EU. They have though, exercised their democratic right to object to certain EU treaties. Maybe they're meant to like everything the EU puts forward? Is that what 'Pro EU' means?

    Certain ?
    Didn't they oppose all EU treaties and in fact campaign AGAINST our EC membership in the 1972 referendum


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    #8
    mattser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭mattser


    3....2....1 ...


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    #9
    Roger_007
    Registered Users Posts: 21,886 ✭✭✭✭Roger_007


    SF have opposed our membership of the EU right from the beginning. They opposed our joining the EEC, as it was then, and have opposed every treaty since.
    However, SF are now a political party as opposed to just the public voice of the IRA, which is what they used to be. They are now just interested in getting votes. Most Irish people are in favour of EU membership, so that's where the votes are. They are just opportunists.
    There is also the fact that the DUP want Brexit so SF had to be on the opposite side, particularly in NI.


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    #10
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Barry Obama said he was opposed to changing the institution of marriage to accommodate same sex couples. A year later he said that opposition to same sex marriage was homophobic. Leo was the same. Pat Rabbitte admitted in a moment of honesty that lies are par for the course in political manifestos.

    politicians on the whole dont have principles, they see which way the wind is blowing and adjust their "beliefs" accordingly. The whole game is a charade.


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    #11
    Montage of Feck
    Registered Users Posts: 3,492 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    They've jumped the shark at this stage.

    🙈🙉🙊



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    #12
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Once you get a taste of the crazy high EU salaries you quickly change your mind.


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    #13
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,194 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    maccored wrote: »
    SF have always been pro-EU in regards being part of the EU. They have though, exercised their democratic right to object to certain EU treaties. Maybe they're meant to like everything the EU puts forward? Is that what 'Pro EU' means?


    Am I in the Revisionist History thread again?

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111503025&postcount=1

    There is a whole other thread on the SF Eire Nua Policy, some of the lesser highlighted gems in it include:

    "Power blocs such as NATO and the EEC on the one hand and COMECON and the Warsaw Pact on the other will be avoided."

    "Pending Ireland’s withdrawal from the EEC to resist the implementation of any decrees or policies of the Common Market which would be detrimental to the best interests of our people or any section of it."

    Sinn Fein were Irexit long before Johnson was Brexit.

    Go back further and Sinn Fein campaigned against Ireland joining the EEC. Has there ever been a Treaty that they were in favour of?


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    #14
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,868 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    The Horde: WE WANT THIS POLITICAL PARTY TO EVOLVE AND REFORM THEIR POSITIONS!

    Political party evolves and reforms their position over 40 years.

    The Horde: HYPOCRITES!

    You guys truly are gas. :D:D


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    #15
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,565 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    SF is simultaneously both pro and anti EU

    It is anti EU as the EU undermines self determination and autarky. The EU is fundamentally opposed to nationalism, and deeply opposed to organizations that are liable to rock the boat (either on a political or economic level). For these reasons SF is opposed to the EU.

    SF is also an organization that is very dependent on the largess that goes with being a party in multiple governments. Since the 90s they have decided that being in the tent pissing out is better than being outside the tent pissing in (with the exception of Westminster). They are also populist and they guess (correctly) that most Irish people are pro-EU, and this informs their broad policy. And naturally, as a poster had already pointed out, both the UK (and particularly their main rival in Stormont) are anti-EU, so they want to appear to do the opposite of what their opponent does.


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    #16
    Utter Consternation
    Registered Users Posts: 926 ✭✭✭Utter Consternation


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The Horde: WE WANT THIS POLITICAL PARTY TO EVOLVE AND REFORM THEIR POSITIONS!

    Political party evolves and reforms their position over 40 years.

    The Horde: HYPOCRITES!

    You guys truly are gas. :D:D

    494498.jpg


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    #17
    DeconSheridan
    Registered Users Posts: 141 ✭✭DeconSheridan


    So according to some journalists SF are funded by SOROS plenty of online material to keep you busy and then your eyes will open.


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    #18
    biko
    Registered Users Posts: 81,223 ✭✭✭✭biko


    Since Sinn Fein literally means We Ourselves you'd think they'd be against joining up under another superpower


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    #19
    mattser
    Registered Users Posts: 2,203 ✭✭✭mattser


    mattser wrote: »
    3....2....1 ...

    LIFT OFF


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    #20
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,868 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Utter Consternation wrote: »

    ;);)

    494500.jpg


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    #21
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    Sinn Fein's decades-long outright hostility to the EU would make the likes of Nigel Farage proud. It campaigned for a No vote in every single EU referendum from the original EEC Accession Treaty in 1972, and originally refused even to take part in EU elections. Bunch of chancers.

    Sample of their election literature from the original accession referendum:

    osfno73.jpg?w=819&h=493


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    #22
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    FrancieBrady wrote: »

    You guys truly are gas. :D:D

    Actually all they did was correct the guy who said SF were only against 'certain' EU treaties

    That being said evolving is good
    The quickest way to unite Ireland in the Short term was to ditch all semblance of a physical border which is what the single market quietly and unceremoniously achieved
    Certain mainly typically illogical DUP elements always hated that
    SF have long evolved into a bigger game plan than just a united Ireland, though obviously that's an integral part of it


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    #23
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,194 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The Horde: WE WANT THIS POLITICAL PARTY TO EVOLVE AND REFORM THEIR POSITIONS!

    Political party evolves and reforms their position over 40 years.

    The Horde: HYPOCRITES!

    You guys truly are gas. :D:D

    But according to one of our experts on the subject, they haven't evolved, they have always been pro-EU.
    maccored wrote: »
    SF have always been pro-EU in regards being part of the EU. They have though, exercised their democratic right to object to certain EU treaties. Maybe they're meant to like everything the EU puts forward? Is that what 'Pro EU' means?

    Which is it?

    I realise that I am particularly subject to oldthink and want to avoid being sent to joycamp by Minitrue for crimethink so it would be doubleplusgood if a duckspeaker like yourself would explain to us via telescreen how we can avoid the thinkpol arresting us. Apologies for any OldSpeak leaking into my request.


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    #24
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,868 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Mortelaro wrote: »
    Actually all they did was correct the guy who said SF were only against 'certain' EU treaties
    There were a number of posts before maccored posted and a number after that did the usual thing when it comes to the Shinners.
    That being said evolving is good
    The quickest way to unite Ireland in the Short term was to ditch all semblance of a physical border which is what the single market quietly and unceremoniously achieved
    Certain mainly typically illogical DUP elements always hated that
    SF have long evolved into a bigger game plan than just a united Ireland, though obviously that's an integral part of it

    Research isn't hard to do in the internet age and I did it before on this subject to inform myself. As far back as the mid 90's you can find web pages and statements from SF that show the policy they are running with today, and it isn't anti EU and certainly not suggesting leaving.


    But would the usual 'guys' here do any research ...will they heck.
    Here is a 'less shouty' outline of an essay which sums up the history of their engagement with the EU in it's abstract.

    But maybe Boards is only interested in trite generalisations. Labour and all the Trade Unions were also anti joining the EEC.
    In 2004 Sinn Féin succeeded in getting its first MEPs elected to the European parliament, with victories in both Northern Ireland (Bairbre de Brún) and the Republic of Ireland (Mary Lou McDonald) alike. Standing on a platform of 'critical but constructive engagement' with Europe, the successful candidates were representatives of a party that has significantly modified its policy on Europe over the last three decades. At the time of its creation, Sinn Féin adopted a position of outright hostility to the EEC (which included a refusal to even take part in European elections), based upon a 'traditional nationalist' conception of what European integration meant. By the time of the 1984 European election, participation at the European level had become conceivable, yet this approach co-existed with an essentially unchanged Euro-scepticism throughout the remainder of the decade. It was only in the 1990s that the party's underlying attitude to Europe underwent significant change and began to more clearly resemble the policy as it stands today. The evolution of this policy, in itself noteworthy, also reveals much about the broader development of Sinn Féin, as the party has successfully negotiated its passage from the margins to the political mainstream.

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/30001944?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents


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    #25
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,194 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    There were a number of posts before maccored posted and a number after that did the usual thing when it comes to the Shinners.


    Research isn't hard to do in the internet age and I did it before on this subject to inform myself. As far back as the mid 90's you can find web pages and statements from SF that show the policy they are running with today, and it isn't anti EU and certainly not suggesting leaving.


    But would the usual 'guys' here do any research ...will they heck.
    Here is a 'less shouty' outline of an essay which sums up the history of their engagement with the EU in it's abstract.

    But maybe Boards is only interested in trite generalisations. Labour and all the Trade Unions were also anti joining the EEC.

    https://www.jstor.org/stable/30001944?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

    Are you criticising fellow Sinn Fein supporters?
    blanch152 wrote: »
    Am I in the Revisionist History thread again?

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=111503025&postcount=1

    There is a whole other thread on the SF Eire Nua Policy, some of the lesser highlighted gems in it include:

    "Power blocs such as NATO and the EEC on the one hand and COMECON and the Warsaw Pact on the other will be avoided."

    "Pending Ireland’s withdrawal from the EEC to resist the implementation of any decrees or policies of the Common Market which would be detrimental to the best interests of our people or any section of it."

    Sinn Fein were Irexit long before Johnson was Brexit.

    Go back further and Sinn Fein campaigned against Ireland joining the EEC. Has there ever been a Treaty that they were in favour of?
    Zayden Most Rating wrote: »
    Sinn Fein's decades-long outright hostility to the EU would make the likes of Nigel Farage proud. It campaigned for a No vote in every single EU referendum from the original EEC Accession Treaty in 1972, and originally refused even to take part in EU elections. Bunch of chancers.

    Sample of their election literature from the original accession referendum:

    osfno73.jpg?w=819&h=493

    I linked to research on Eire Nua, Zayden Most Rating linked to researched election material, while maccored just parrotted an unsubstantiated propaganda piece that Sinn Fein have always been pro-EU.
    maccored wrote: »
    SF have always been pro-EU in regards being part of the EU. They have though, exercised their democratic right to object to certain EU treaties. Maybe they're meant to like everything the EU puts forward? Is that what 'Pro EU' means?

    You have a remarkable facility for doubling-down on misspeaks on here. Fact is, the only people who did any research on this thread showed that Sinn Fein have consistently been pro-EU.

    If there really are Sinn Fein pamphlets out there supporting an ever closer union in Europe and backing further EU integration, please show them to us.


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    #26
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,194 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    There were a number of posts before maccored posted and a number after that did the usual thing when it comes to the Shinners.


    Research isn't hard to do in the internet age and I did it before on this subject to inform myself. As far back as the mid 90's you can find web pages and statements from SF that show the policy they are running with today, and it isn't anti EU and certainly not suggesting leaving.


    But would the usual 'guys' here do any research ...will they heck.
    Here is a 'less shouty' outline of an essay which sums up the history of their engagement with the EU in it's abstract.

    But maybe Boards is only interested in trite generalisations. Labour and all the Trade Unions were also anti joining the EEC.



    https://www.jstor.org/stable/30001944?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

    To put this another way, you are lambasting other posters who produced research that showed maccored was wrong when s/he said that SF was always pro-EU, while simultaneously in the same post producing your own research that proves maccored was wrong?

    Did I miss something again?


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    #27
    Mortelaro
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,431 ✭✭✭Mortelaro


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    There were a number of posts before maccored posted and a number after that did the usual thing when it comes to the Shinners.


    Research isn't hard to do in the internet age and I did it before on this subject to inform myself. As far back as the mid 90's you can find web pages and statements from SF that show the policy they are running with today, and it isn't anti EU and certainly not suggesting leaving.


    But would the usual 'guys' here do any research ...will they heck.
    Here is a 'less shouty' outline of an essay which sums up the history of their engagement with the EU in it's abstract.

    But maybe Boards is only interested in trite generalisations. Labour and all the Trade Unions were also anti joining the EEC.



    https://www.jstor.org/stable/30001944?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

    You'll find pointing out labour and the trade unions 1972 views in a thread on SF being described as whataboutery


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    #28
    nkl12xtw5goz70
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,497 ✭✭✭nkl12xtw5goz70


    maccored wrote: »
    SF have always been pro-EU in regards being part of the EU. They have though, exercised their democratic right to object to certain EU treaties. Maybe they're meant to like everything the EU puts forward? Is that what 'Pro EU' means?

    If we had voted the way Sinn Fein wanted, we would have rejected the accession referendum of 1972, the Single European Act of 1987, the Maastricht Treaty of 1992, the Treaty of Amsterdam of 1998, the Treaty of Nice of 2002, the Lisbon Treaty of 2009, and the European Fiscal Compact of 2012.

    How can you claim with a straight face that SF "have always been pro-EU"?


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    #29
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 66,868 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    To put this another way, you are lambasting other posters who produced research that showed maccored was wrong when s/he said that SF was always pro-EU, while simultaneously in the same post producing your own research that proves maccored was wrong?

    Did I miss something again?

    No, I said nothing about what maccored had said, he can answer for himself.

    I 'lambasted' the usual trite, false comments being made by others. And laughing at those who demand constantly that this party change and when they have demonstratively evolved a position over 30 - 40 years call them 'populists' and 'hypocrites'.

    It is fantastical stuff really, if you'd think about it for a minute.


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    #30
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,194 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    No, I said nothing about what maccored had said, he can answer for himself.

    I 'lambasted' the usual trite, false comments being made by others. And laughing at those who demand constantly that this party change and when they have demonstratively evolved a position over 30 - 40 years call them 'populists' and 'hypocrites'.

    It is fantastical stuff really, if you'd think about it for a minute.

    If someone says (as maccored did) that Sinn Fein was always pro-EU, it is not trite or false to respond (as you did) that he is wrong.

    We are actually in agreement here. You agree with me that Sinn Fein was virulently anti-EU and opposed Ireland's accession to the EU but has changed its position since. We agree on that (so does Permabear II, mattser, RandomName2, myself et al) unlike others (maccored in particular, who says that Sinn Fein have always been pro-EU), so take up your accusations of lying with your fellow republicans, not with the rest of us.

    We can disagree on the extent to which they have changed (barely, in my opinion) and why (because of populism and opposing themmums), but we are in agreement that they have changed, so put away the normal blinkers and engage with the actual reality of what people posted.

    As for the usual trite, have a look at your own posting on this thread.


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    #31
    JohnnyFlash
    Registered Users Posts: 7,055 ✭✭✭JohnnyFlash


    Think they started running candidates around the mid-80’s for the European elections. Would have been massively eurosceptic though - SF were big into the 32-county socialist republic stuff, and the EEC was viewed with suspicion and hostility.

    They’ve become less eurosceptic and less left wing as time has gone on. There’s not a whiff of cordite off privately educated elitists from Dublin like Mary Lou, Boylan, and O’Broin.


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