Mens Rights Thread

the_pen_turner · 01-09-2019 9:57pm

if they wanted to stop the decline or stop it starting to decline then they should have brought out a cheaper product that was value for money.
before this ad the decline was cause by the insane prices of their razers and the very poor value for money. yes they were goo but not worth anywhere near the price. i havent bought their razers in 6-7 years.my GF used to buy them for my birthday, xmass etc .those were used for special ocasions rather than day to day shaving. cheap (not too cheap) razers do the job perfectly fine. why would you spend 25 euro + for 5 razers when 2-3 euro will by 10 perfectly good ones.
i have thrown out any gillette handle i have . no point keeping rubish

this ad is just a nail in the coffin for their razers.

Calhoun · 01-09-2019 10:17pm

Silentcorner wrote: »

I'm sorry to be this dismissive of your view, but there was absolutely nothing smart about this strategy, they were losing market share to smaller smarter competition so I can understand trying something new and they felt they were out of options, that much i can get.

There is nobody who isn't aware of how divisive public discourse is these days and they chose to attempt to use this discourse to connect with a new demographic....there is no way they didn't consider the 750 million male customers they already had (altho it is thought that women buy 30% of the blades for their partners), when you deliberately pick a side in a toxic culture we are witnessing, there is no way back....

This won't be the last of these kinds of debacles, it will however be the biggest, they have probably lost nearly 75 million customers, and the way retail operates, this is only starting to hurt their factory sales.

They knew instantly they had a big big big problem, those male customers are the type that spend a lot of time on youtube (which they would have known), Youtube gave them an instant barometre of how the ad was being received, forget about mainstream media which all reported glowingly on the ad (remember, Proctor and Gamble are one of the largest buyers of ad space globally) they were getting an horrific message from Youtube and they chose to ignore.

The ad could have gone with the same message with a bit of subtly and creativity, but radical feminists are known for either!

The CEO (Gary Coombe) will go down in infamy as will Kim Gherig, the radical feminist who got the gig because of an industry initiative that would allow women win contracts were not winning!

It is a clusterf##k from start to finish...

Your not being dismissive as we all have different opinions. You don't have to agree with mine and i don't have to agree with yours.

Regardless the proof/the damage done to the brand will be viewed not just on the past year or so but longer term. Would anyone on this thread go back if they go the price point right?

We shall have to see if they can bounce back.

Reviews and Books Galore · 02-09-2019 6:06pm

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainment/movies/jack-reynor-pushed-for-full-frontal-nudity-in-midsommar/ar-AADTRdF

Does anybody else find the mentions of toxic masculinity kind of disturbing? Like, to me, it's coming across as a kind of corective rape and, truth be told, I feel like i've been noticing this humiliation towards 'toxic men' more and more in american cinema.

Edit: Also, from the little I know about Sweden, I am not suprised it was filmed/produced/whatever there.

iptba · 02-09-2019 7:19pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainment/movies/jack-reynor-pushed-for-full-frontal-nudity-in-midsommar/ar-AADTRdF

Does anybody else find the mentions of toxic masculinity kind of disturbing? Like, to me, it's coming across as a kind of corective rape and, truth be told, I feel like i've been noticing this humiliation towards 'toxic men' more and more in american cinema.

Edit: Also, from the little I know about Sweden, I am not suprised it was filmed/produced/whatever there.

"When I read the script, I saw an opportunity to take a character who exhibits a lot of archetypal male characteristics - like male toxicity

I don't recall female actors saying something equivalent about females

Reviews and Books Galore · 03-09-2019 10:49am

I think they're alot of 'nice guys' coming up in Hollywood unfortunately. It's a shame, but I can't really watch The Boys because of how they treated the Starlight character.

Not so much for the blackmail aspect, but more because it's a waste of a character. Wouldn't it have been so much better if the character had her own intrinsic belief in regards to the superheroes rather than have an external element intrude?

I like the magic genre, so that did oddly annoy me from reading up on it :P

Padraig Mor · 03-09-2019 11:14am

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/entertainment/movies/jack-reynor-pushed-for-full-frontal-nudity-in-midsommar/ar-AADTRdF

Does anybody else find the mentions of toxic masculinity kind of disturbing? Like, to me, it's coming across as a kind of corective rape and, truth be told, I feel like i've been noticing this humiliation towards 'toxic men' more and more in american cinema.

Edit: Also, from the little I know about Sweden, I am not suprised it was filmed/produced/whatever there.

Strange. My recollection of the film is that he was basically a nice guy who didn't want to dump his girlfriend in case it upset her too much - hence her being added to the Sweden trip. Hardly 'toxic masculinity'.

iptba · 03-09-2019 1:31pm

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/30/french-council-fined-having-many-female-managers/

A district council in eastern France has been fined €90,000 (£81,000) for appointing too many women to its management team in breach of public-sector gender parity laws.

Jean-François Debat, the chairman of the Bourg-en-Bresse council, is unapologetic. “I think it’s comical to be punished for this reason,” he said. “Not only do I stand by our appointments, I’m proud of having so many women in our management teams.”

According to the local prefecture, the district council has appointed four women for each man in a senior post.

Mr Debat plans to appeal to the government to lift the fine. “Our council deserves to be applauded, not penalised,” he said.

Blueshoe · 03-09-2019 2:18pm

iptba wrote: »

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/30/french-council-fined-having-many-female-managers/

That man is a bitch

Reviews and Books Galore · 04-09-2019 8:41am

iptba wrote: »

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/08/30/french-council-fined-having-many-female-managers/

They could give his job to a woman and there's a chance a lot of the female employees would quit/be fired :P

iptba · 14-09-2019 3:58pm

I wonder do many men have to deal with issues like this:

TOKYO, Sept 10 (Reuters) - A male employee is suing sportswear maker Asics Corp for alleged mistreatment after taking paternity leave, a case that has shone a spotlight on gender equality and workers' rights in Japan.

http://news.trust.org/item/20190910071358-ag3nc/

I think the publication may be a little biased and how it deals with such issues:

About our Women coverage
We focus on stories that help to empower women and bring lasting change to gender inequality

iptba · 14-09-2019 4:03pm

From Australia:

World Suicide Prevention Day 2019 is tomorrow, September 10.

In theory, it should provide an opportunity to raise honest awareness around the issue, and shine a light on what action we can take to drive the number of suicides down.

However, no politician seems to want to face up the truth about soaring rates of male suicide. Deaths from suicide occur at a rate three times higher in men than that of females.

What there won’t be is discussion around the latest ABS data. Figures from 2017 show very clearly what factors are contributing to the soaring suicide rates.

The published ABS statistics list the most frequently occurring psychosocial risk factors in coroner-certified deaths in Australia. Top of the list is a personal history of self-harm, followed by disruption of family by separation and divorce, and then problems relating to legal circumstances.

So, in light of this, why on earth is society dragging its heels in acknowledging the impact of family law and custody disputes on the heartbreaking suicide rate?

https://www.spectator.com.au/2019/09/the-question-no-politician-wants-to-face-about-suicide/

iptba · 14-09-2019 4:18pm

US story from 2015:

A Father's Fight to Win Back His Daughter Secretly Put Up for Adoption

https://abcnews.go.com/US/fathers-fight-win-back-daughter-secretly-put-adoption/story?id=33237316

iptba · 14-09-2019 9:57pm

(9 minutes)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKtRzhlGbzo

I didn't know where he was going with this, but it all made sense, later on.
It's about the Mike Pence rule and the like.

I know with medicine, potential harms are taken very seriously. They don't have to occur in a high percentage of cases to be taken seriously. I suppose it is similar in general with workplace safety.

Reviews and Books Galore · 15-09-2019 11:58am

iptba wrote: »

(9 minutes)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKtRzhlGbzo

I didn't know where he was going with this, but it all made sense, later on.
It's about the Mike Pence rule and the like.

I know with medicine, potential harms are taken very seriously. They don't have to occur in a high percentage of cases to be taken seriously. I suppose it is similar in general with workplace safety.

He's honestly not wrong.

It is absurd that men are expected to help women get ahead in business when a) they are the competition and b) There is a massive sweeping under the rug of the problems of false accusations in the Anglo-Saxon world.

iptba · 15-09-2019 3:36pm

Here's the latest batch of gender-related hashtags I have noticed trending for anyone interested (I know some are not)
(Aside: I'm not on Twitter 24/7 of course and don't look back at lists for when I wasn't on)

Really, not many hashtags to report on but considering there are a number of Twitter ads, I thought I might post now, so the post doesn't get too long.

Twitter ad:
https://twitter.com/20x20_ie/status/1157244474491379712?s=11

Twitter ad:
https://twitter.com/20x20_ie/status/1160224204505210882?s=11

Twitter ad:
https://twitter.com/AIGIreland/status/1164915707634704384?s=20

Twitter ad:
https://twitter.com/lidl_ireland/status/1164185992045244416?s=11

#VisibleWomen
Visible Women
@Visible_Women
Where young women/girls meet female role models & mentors in male dominated industries. set up by
@barbarakasumu
#VisibleWomen #IAmVisible #Ementoring #Mentors

Twitter ad
https://twitter.com/facsnsw/status/1164704189399724032?s=11

Twitter ad
https://twitter.com/threeireland/status/1166625933790519297?s=11

Twitter ad
https://twitter.com/aigireland/status/1171061193416593408?s=11

#20x20

#ProperFan
[Hashtag used if you support ladies/female GAA]

Reviews and Books Galore · 15-09-2019 5:25pm

Is it crazy that I think that this is more about a rise in false accusations?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/sep/13/senior-police-officer-raises-concerns-over-prosecutions

Calhoun · 21-09-2019 12:04am

Not sure where to stick this, found by boards user Zory. Shows how marketing towards men can be done right.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT-QiMZkAn8&feature=youtu.be

Reviews and Books Galore · 22-09-2019 9:01am

The movie Hustler's is interesting in how it is described as 'empowering' for women. It's a movie about women drugging and perhaps sexually assaulting men for money :P

But, what's very interesting is that there is a psychological 'venus flytrap' towards male sexuality. You can see the same in a lot of feminist art where they show something 'sexy' and then make the man feel dirty/afraid for looking. You can kind of see it in the movie Midsommar as well where the man is set on fire for cheating, or you can see it in modern day where a woman where's a low cut top and then glares at a man for looking.

It's kind of a random note, but I do feel really toxic movies coming out about male sexulity lately.

Edit: Here's a lovely article

https://variety.com/2019/film/reviews/hustlers-review-jennifer-lopez-1203324866/

And a group of New York strippers — who baited, drugged and stole from the rich to give to their relatively poor selves — were hailed as the defiant heroines in what the press called “a modern Robin Hood story.”

Edit 2:

You know, this really is an interesting movie/phenomenon.

There's also an element of 'white feminism' as it kind of portrays minority women as dangerous seducers or as lower class strippers/criminals. Which is silly as strippers actually make quite good money, and women in the sex work most probably make more than that vaunted 100 k in America.

silverharp · 22-09-2019 10:14am

^^

i wonder what you make of this, there is an analysis of a wonder woman scene in the middle of this that kind of blew my mind. i do wonder how deliberate movies are in terms of pushing certain ideas, in this case beyond superficially trying to pander to a female audience?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soh-3jiHq4s

Reviews and Books Galore · 22-09-2019 11:16am

I skipped to the wonder woman part, but it sounds like it makes a lot of sense tbh. Like to a disturbing if not suprising agree, but I think men, unfortunately, have always been seen as needing training to be a better man. And, I will also add that men were never 'above' women. They had their areas of power and women had their areas of power, and no society will function if one group is always looking to be above another.

It sounds really, really random, but I am starting to wonder if there's some social engineering/devaluing going on by local American powers/foreign governments in regards to Hollywood and gender.

Excuse my little diversion :P But, I think I will mention something that I noticed in the main promotional image of Hustlers (because it really is fascinating). You can see it in this article that I have linked.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/scottmendelson/2019/09/18/hustlers-oscars-box-office-40m-jennifer-lopez-constance-wu-stx-joker-tarantino-downton-abbey/#47d0ab2518da

You can find it online, but there are four women in the photo. Lopez draws the eye as she is facing the audience in a rather revealing dress. There is a blonde woman with very agressive animal posture (head lowered, theet showing, sharpened nails pointing at J los breast), and then there is Constance Wu with an overly large phallic object taking self enjoyment in a very masculine sense of the word :P Throughout it all there is a sense of laughter that I think plays into the male fear of a group of women laughing.

Eh, there's nothing really new here. Minority women (In this case slavic, Hispanic, Black and Asain) have always been demonized and portrayed as the barracudas of society, and a certain subsection of toxic women have always had a Venus Flytrap mentality. The psychology at play is basic and catty and almost animalistic in the promotional photo.

And I will some up by saying that I think the directors a bit of a creep from looking at the body language of her around Jennifer Lopez. There is quite a domineering touch in some of the photos and reminds me of the body language of the director of American Honey who is known for recruiting impressionable young women and then discarding them. I decided to link the photo as it really is a case of a photo telling a thousand words.

https://variety.com/2019/film/news/hustlers-lorene-scafaria-big-ticket-podcast-1203340464/

silverharp · 22-09-2019 11:41am

i was hoping these obnoxious gender fantasy movies would lose money but this one looks like it will make a profit because it was cheap to make. it looks like Disney and Marvel might drop more sales the more woke they get so hopefully "the market" will vote with their wallets as they tend to make movies less watchable.
the picture is funny though, nothing phallic about it at all lol , no sir'ee

22-09-2019 3:08pm

silverharp wrote: »

^^

i wonder what you make of this, there is an analysis of a wonder woman scene in the middle of this that kind of blew my mind. i do wonder how deliberate movies are in terms of pushing certain ideas, in this case beyond superficially trying to pander to a female audience?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=soh-3jiHq4s

I'm glad i haven't really watched may films in the last 10 or 15 years. All that sounds pure cringe.

Is it working though, are those films doing well?

iptba · 23-09-2019 4:45pm

(Not important)
I just got this message in a medical update I'm subscribed to. I think there would be quite a reluctance to say something comparable to women.

https://www.jwatch.org/fw115849/2019/09/23/clinical-conversations-pay-women-pediatricians-lags

Clinical Conversations: Pay for Women Pediatricians Lags

By the Editors

A national sample of early- to midcareer pediatricians shows that women are lagging behind men in compensation, and another study from the sample shows that they're not getting much help with the housework either. Clinical Conversations' Joe Elia talks with two of the authors of these studies and gets their advice on what to do next — besides emptying the dishwasher and folding some laundry, gentlemen.

Clinical Conversations podcast (running time, 21 min.) (Free)

Veritas Libertas · 24-09-2019 6:54am

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Like to a disturbing if not suprising agree, but I think men, unfortunately, have always been seen as needing training to be a better man. And, I will also add that men were never 'above' women. They had their areas of power and women had their areas of power, and no society will function if one group is always looking to be above another.

I'd agree men were never 'above' women, women always had their power also.

The metric of a 'better man' must be seen from a woman's eyes, they mean a man that suits women better IMO. There is no objective 'best man' you see what I mean.

To equate this with your point in bold; this is a story that has resonated with people throughout time. Look at Beauty and the Beast or The Pig King. I think there may be some 'truth' in this specifically in advising women that if they treat the perceived 'beast' with compassion, kindness and respect he may turn out to be the prince/king they always wanted.

Women have the power to transform men in profound ways.

Reviews and Books Galore · 24-09-2019 10:48am

Veritas Libertas wrote: »

I'd agree men were never 'above' women, women always had their power also.

The metric of a 'better man' must be seen from a woman's eyes, they mean a man that suits women better IMO. There is no objective 'best man' you see what I mean.

To equate this with your point in bold; this is a story that has resonated with people throughout time. Look at Beauty and the Beast or The Pig King. I think there may be some 'truth' in this specifically in advising women that if they treat the perceived 'beast' with compassion, kindness and respect he may turn out to be the prince/king they always wanted.

Women have the power to transform men in profound ways.

Most of it is because men see women as replacement mother figures rather than any feminine powers. In other cultures the man is a bit more wary and argumentative :P

Although, in fairness, Irish men in their thirties are pretty good with women.

Glass fused light · 24-09-2019 8:02pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Is it crazy that I think that this is more about a rise in false accusations?

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2019/sep/13/senior-police-officer-raises-concerns-over-prosecutions

Have you even read the article?

The police have concerns that they are investigating and sending in files which meet the current disclosed minimum standard of evidence to prove a sexual assault took place to the CPS.
The CPD is changing the rules about what level of evidence is required before the CPS will bring a case to court.
So the CPS has decided its going to act in the place of a jury and stop cases which would have previously been brought to court.

Overall there have been more reported sexual assaults, however the number of actual cases being brought to the courts have dropped below previous historical levels and your conclusion was the cases which are being rejected have all been deemend false by the CPS?

And PS not all sexual assault victims are female.

Reviews and Books Galore · 24-09-2019 8:21pm

Glass fused light wrote: »

Have you even read the article?

The police have concerns that they are investigating and sending in files which meet the current disclosed minimum standard of evidence to prove a sexual assault took place to the CPS.
The CPD is changing the rules about what level of evidence is required before the CPS will bring a case to court.
So the CPS has decided its going to act in the place of a jury and stop cases which would have previously been brought to court.

Overall there have been more reported sexual assaults, however the number of actual cases being brought to the courts have dropped below previous historical levels and your conclusion was the cases which are being rejected have all been deemend false by the CPS?

And PS not all sexual assault victims are female.[/QUOTE

P.S. You are the one thinking that I was talking about females making false accusations against men

iptba · 24-09-2019 8:41pm

Seanad Éireann debate -
Thursday, 19 Apr 1956

Corporal Punishment for Girls—Motion (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:—
That Seanad Éireann would welcome the alteration of the Department of Education regulations so as to prohibit altogether the use in Irish national schools of corporal punishment for girls.

Dr. Sheehy Skeffington

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/1956-04-19/6/

Probably doesn't prove a whole lot, by itself, given that the motion wasn't passed. But part of the reason for gender quotas was that male politicians are more inclined to help males and females and this needed to be balanced out. This is an example where this was not the case in terms of who proposed the motion, etc.

iptba · 24-09-2019 8:46pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_corporal_punishment_in_the_United_States#By_gender

By gender

At the turn of the 20th century, both boys and girls received roughly equal levels of corporal punishments in U.S. schools, but girls were more likely to report their punishment as 'unjust' or 'unfair.' However, while punishment was seen as a builder of masculinity for boys, girls were not expected to experience the same benefits, so their punishment was often, but not always, more lenient.[8] This trend in gender parity changed significantly in the next century.

Today, boys are more likely than girls to be physically punished in schools, and this disparity has persisted for decades.[32] In 1992, boys accounted for 81 percent of all incidents of physical discipline in schools.[40] By 2012, the majority of school districts within states that legally allow corporal punishment registered a ratio of three to one or higher, indicating that boys are three times more likely than girls to receive corporal punishment.[32] Differences in behavior (and perceived behavior) can explain part of this imbalance, but does not account for the entire discrepancy between the genders. Boys have been found to be two times as likely as girls to be disciplined for misbehavior in school, but they are four times as likely to be disciplined with corporal punishment.[32][41]

When race and gender are considered together, black boys are sixteen times as likely to be subject of corporal punishment as white girls.[40] Among children with disabilities, black boys have the highest probability of being subject to corporal punishment, followed by white boys, black girls and white girls. While black boys are 1.8 times as likely as white boys to be physically punished, black girls are three times more likely than white girls.[32]

--
I think that looking at corporal punishment and gender might prove interesting. As I mentioned before, a female friend of mine said there was corporal punishment in her mixed class, but it was only for the boys. I went to an all-boys school where there was corporal punishment; my sisters went to an all-girls school where there wasn't. Outside of school, I was fortunate not to really experience corporal punishment at home but I knew a family where the 3 boys regularly got the belt but it was not considered suitable for their sister.

Glass fused light · 24-09-2019 8:50pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Glass fused light wrote: »

Have you even read the article?

The police have concerns that they are investigating and sending in files which meet the current disclosed minimum standard of evidence to prove a sexual assault took place to the CPS.
The CPD is changing the rules about what level of evidence is required before the CPS will bring a case to court.
So the CPS has decided its going to act in the place of a jury and stop cases which would have previously been brought to court.

Overall there have been more reported sexual assaults, however the number of actual cases being brought to the courts have dropped below previous historical levels and your conclusion was the cases which are being rejected have all been deemend false by the CPS?

And PS not all sexual assault victims are female.[/QUOTE

P.S. You are the one thinking that I was talking about females making false accusations against men

Link up the cases of a sexual assault prosecution failing over the defence proving that it was a false accusation by a man or the CPS withdrawing charges once in court.

Reviews and Books Galore · 24-09-2019 9:05pm

Glass fused light wrote: »

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Link up the cases of a sexual assault prosecution failing over the defence proving that it was a false accusation by a man or the CPS withdrawing charges once in court.

..No?

I mean what do you expect here?

Glass fused light · 24-09-2019 9:12pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

..No?

I mean what do you expect here?

Well you made the comment here

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

P.S. You are the one thinking that I was talking about females making false accusations against men

So what was i expecting ?

Exactly what you posted.

Reviews and Books Galore · 24-09-2019 9:24pm

Glass fused light wrote: »

Well you made the comment here

So what was i expecting ?

Exactly what you posted.

...Okay? Again, I am not entirely sure what you expect here?

Veritas Libertas · 24-09-2019 10:47pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

...Okay? Again, I am not entirely sure what you expect here?

It looks to me like you should expect an apology. Wouldn't hold your breath though.

Calhoun · 24-09-2019 10:56pm

Glass fused light wrote: »

Have you even read the article?

The police have concerns that they are investigating and sending in files which meet the current disclosed minimum standard of evidence to prove a sexual assault took place to the CPS.
The CPD is changing the rules about what level of evidence is required before the CPS will bring a case to court.
So the CPS has decided its going to act in the place of a jury and stop cases which would have previously been brought to court.

Overall there have been more reported sexual assaults, however the number of actual cases being brought to the courts have dropped below previous historical levels and your conclusion was the cases which are being rejected have all been deemend false by the CPS?

And PS not all sexual assault victims are female.

The CPS are a law unto themselves, a year ago they got found out for actually withholding evidence that exonerated sexual assault.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/13/men-may-have-wrongly-jailed-withheld-evidence-head-cps-concedes/

I would suspect the reason they are dropping cases is linked to the above.

Veritas Libertas · 24-09-2019 11:04pm

Calhoun wrote: »

I would suspect the reason they are dropping cases is linked to the above.

It is documented by individual survivors of this system in this short documentary by Patrick Graham.

You would be shocked how far individual cases went on mere speculation, that was easily disproved with simple evidence. It sounds ridiculous how far some of those cases went, because at the time the police were trained to believe the accuser.

Glass fused light · 24-09-2019 11:19pm

Veritas Libertas wrote: »

It looks to me like you should expect an apology. Wouldn't hold your breath though.

So do explain what exactly do you think the apology should be for?

Veritas Libertas · 24-09-2019 11:24pm

Glass fused light wrote: »

So do explain what exactly do you think the apology should be for?

For you assuming the previous poster was referring to victims only as women.

Glass fused light wrote: »

And PS not all sexual assault victims are female.

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

P.S. You are the one thinking that I was talking about females making false accusations against men

Also for doubling down instead of apologizing at this point...

Glass fused light wrote: »

Link up the cases of a sexual assault prosecution failing over the defence proving that it was a false accusation by a man or the CPS withdrawing charges once in court.

Glass fused light · 25-09-2019 12:56am

Calhoun wrote: »

The CPS are a law unto themselves, a year ago they got found out for actually withholding evidence that exonerated sexual assault.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/11/13/men-may-have-wrongly-jailed-withheld-evidence-head-cps-concedes/

I would suspect the reason they are dropping cases is linked to the above.

The UK CPS failed to do their duty and review the evidence and quite rightly got their arses handed to them in the last few cases public cases which went to trial.

Eg ) in the uni case L i a m A ( per the article ) it was found that the witnesse/victim lied and the proof was in the communications to a friend. So was the friend ever interviewed or did the police fail to take a full statement or not check out the details or just go in blind on trust and the same with the CPS?

Similar in the case in the link had they reviewed the evidence and decided to withhold it from the defence?
There are 2 problems had the police and the CPS both supposedly seen the same evidence and ignored it?
My understaning is that to not hand over evidence the CPS would have had to given a commitment to the court that it was not relevant. so either they knowingly lied or someone in the police lied to them

So that review needs to focus on why the CPS is failing to disclose gathered evidence once they have committed to going to trial. And indeed why they are failing to look at their own evidence.

That responsibility was on the CPS, not on the victims who are now being denied any hope of justice.

As for policy of being forced to hand over their social media access and phones for a history before the CPS will look at the other evidence? That's evidence that the attacker now and would always have been given access to if the disclosure of evidence was being preformed correctly. A blanket demand for this type of proof of innocent for a witness will exclude a lot of people from the system because who in their right minded is going to give their attacker access to their digital information.

And yes that blankets demand will create more work as they will need someone to read the data collected. Here is an idea of they are publicly saying they are not even going to look at the information don't collect it.
Leave it as an option that the defence always has the right to look for the data from the victim.
Collecting the data and not looking at it is wrong.

However, in this newspaper report the police have raised a concern about what they are seeing when they look at the stats, a 65% rejection rate. If they are still just gathering the evidence without forming an opinion that there is a case to answer for, rather than just pushing it out to the CPS, then why are they raising concerns?

The police appear to believe that they have done their job correctly and gatherd the appropriate evidence per the agreeded policy and proceedure and sent it off for the CPS. Yet the CPS is looking at evidence and rejecting 65% of the cases and not forwarding the cases for prosecution nor giving the police feed back on why?

If the CPS is in the process of being brought to court for not prosecuting sex crimes because they are afraid of the costs the value for money review or want sure things it is failing to function for the people it should be serving.

The CPS is not being upfront about the policy changes is a problem If its risk based what are they choosing go factor in or out
If they are pushing the "we won't prosecuted" attitude in road shows based on not evidence but the likability of the victim its just wrong

If its looking at how the jury will will assess the evidence against the proof the evidence supplies the it becomes a multitiered selection process of guessing the nice middle class victim will gain more sympathy than the rougher working class one etc.

If the CPS is doing this type of push back against the police forces who are collecting the expected level of evidence why are police resources going to be allocated against complaints they know the CPS wont look at, at all?

Glass fused light · 25-09-2019 1:13am

Veritas Libertas wrote: »

For you assuming the previous poster was referring to victims only as women.

Also for doubling down instead of apologizing at this point...

Will fine, where is the evidence that men who made false allegations of sexual assault against either men or women may have resulted in the CPS changing their decision making process?

Veritas Libertas · 25-09-2019 1:28am

Glass fused light wrote: »

Will fine, where is the evidence that men who made false allegations of sexual assault against either men or women may have resulted in the CPS changing their decision making process?

What relevance does that have to anything?

I'd guess that men don't make as many false allegations of sexual assault as women. I'm open to correction.

Men definitely seem to be a higher percentage of victim in these kinds of cases.

Calhoun · 25-09-2019 1:51am

Glass fused light wrote: »

The UK CPS failed to do their duty and review the evidence and quite rightly got their arses handed to them in the last few cases public cases which went to trial.

Eg ) in the uni case L i a m A ( per the article ) it was found that the witnesse/victim lied and the proof was in the communications to a friend. So was the friend ever interviewed or did the police fail to take a full statement or not check out the details or just go in blind on trust and the same with the CPS?

Similar in the case in the link had they reviewed the evidence and decided to withhold it from the defence?
There are 2 problems had the police and the CPS both supposedly seen the same evidence and ignored it?
My understaning is that to not hand over evidence the CPS would have had to given a commitment to the court that it was not relevant. so either they knowingly lied or someone in the police lied to them

So that review needs to focus on why the CPS is failing to disclose gathered evidence once they have committed to going to trial. And indeed why they are failing to look at their own evidence.

That responsibility was on the CPS, not on the victims who are now being denied any hope of justice.

As for policy of being forced to hand over their social media access and phones for a history before the CPS will look at the other evidence? That's evidence that the attacker now and would always have been given access to if the disclosure of evidence was being preformed correctly. A blanket demand for this type of proof of innocent for a witness will exclude a lot of people from the system because who in their right minded is going to give their attacker access to their digital information.

And yes that blankets demand will create more work as they will need someone to read the data collected. Here is an idea of they are publicly saying they are not even going to look at the information don't collect it.
Leave it as an option that the defence always has the right to look for the data from the victim.
Collecting the data and not looking at it is wrong.

However, in this newspaper report the police have raised a concern about what they are seeing when they look at the stats, a 65% rejection rate. If they are still just gathering the evidence without forming an opinion that there is a case to answer for, rather than just pushing it out to the CPS, then why are they raising concerns?

The police appear to believe that they have done their job correctly and gatherd the appropriate evidence per the agreeded policy and proceedure and sent it off for the CPS. Yet the CPS is looking at evidence and rejecting 65% of the cases and not forwarding the cases for prosecution nor giving the police feed back on why?

If the CPS is in the process of being brought to court for not prosecuting sex crimes because they are afraid of the costs the value for money review or want sure things it is failing to function for the people it should be serving.

The CPS is not being upfront about the policy changes is a problem If its risk based what are they choosing go factor in or out
If they are pushing the "we won't prosecuted" attitude in road shows based on not evidence but the likability of the victim its just wrong

If its looking at how the jury will will assess the evidence against the proof the evidence supplies the it becomes a multitiered selection process of guessing the nice middle class victim will gain more sympathy than the rougher working class one etc.

If the CPS is doing this type of push back against the police forces who are collecting the expected level of evidence why are police resources going to be allocated against complaints they know the CPS wont look at, at all?

Both acts are wrong and i weigh them both equally in saying that the CPS is a joke.

Reviews and Books Galore · 25-09-2019 11:42am

Glass fused light wrote: »

Will fine, where is the evidence that men who made false allegations of sexual assault against either men or women may have resulted in the CPS changing their decision making process?

I think it's more to do with the rise of drinking alcohol equals rape. So, technically, it could be classed as rape, but it's absurd to say consensual sex between two people under the influence of alcohol is rape. That's my two cents and my reading between the lines.

So, technically it could be within the guidelines of rape, but it's absurd that it is in anyway being classed as rape.

iptba · 25-09-2019 2:35pm

(Requires free registration)

Under pressure: Why it's time to talk about men, food and body image

Christopher Eccleston’s frank admission that he’s struggled with an eating disorder has prompted other men to open up about their body image issues. Caomhan Keane reports on a topic that’s still taboo

https://www.independent.ie/life/health-wellbeing/health-features/under-pressure-why-its-time-to-talk-about-men-food-and-body-image-38532569.html

One eyed Jack · 25-09-2019 4:54pm

I think we could start to see more of these types of cases in the media -

A PARENTS’ ROW over the enrolment of their daughter in a Co Clare school has resulted in the school being ordered to pay the father €3,500 compensation in a discrimination case.

This follows the Workplace Relations Commission (WRC) upholding the girl’s father’s claim that he was treated less favourably by the secondary school’s Board of Management (BOM) than the mother of their daughter because he is a man and she is a woman concerning their daughter’s enrolment.

The father took the gender discrimination case under the Equal Status Act against the school BOM after the school enrolled the girl for the 2017/18 school year without his consent.

The parents are estranged and share joint legal guardianship of their daughter.

Along with ordering the school’s BOM to pay the father €3,500 for the effects of the discrimination, WRC adjudication officer, Enda Murphy has ordered that the BOM should review its admissions policy with a view to making any necessary amendments to ensure that the principles of equality are applied to both male and female legal guardians in the assessment of applications for enrolment.

Father awarded €3.5k in discrimination case over daughter's enrolment in school

Veritas Libertas · 25-09-2019 5:08pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

I think it's more to do with the rise of drinking alcohol equals rape. So, technically, it could be classed as rape, but it's absurd to say consensual sex between two people under the influence of alcohol is rape. That's my two cents and my reading between the lines.

So, technically it could be within the guidelines of rape, but it's absurd that it is in anyway being classed as rape.

"Rapists who target drunk women cannot be charged with rape under New York law, prosecutor says"

Independent.co.uk

Calhoun · 25-09-2019 6:47pm

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I think we could start to see more of these types of cases in the media -

A PARENTS’ ROW over the enrolment of their daughter in a Co Clare school has resulted in the school being ordered to pay the father €3,500 compensation in a discrimination case.

This follows the Workplace Relations Commission (WRC) upholding the girl’s father’s claim that he was treated less favourably by the secondary school’s Board of Management (BOM) than the mother of their daughter because he is a man and she is a woman concerning their daughter’s enrolment.

The father took the gender discrimination case under the Equal Status Act against the school BOM after the school enrolled the girl for the 2017/18 school year without his consent.

The parents are estranged and share joint legal guardianship of their daughter.

Along with ordering the school’s BOM to pay the father €3,500 for the effects of the discrimination, WRC adjudication officer, Enda Murphy has ordered that the BOM should review its admissions policy with a view to making any necessary amendments to ensure that the principles of equality are applied to both male and female legal guardians in the assessment of applications for enrolment.

Father awarded €3.5k in discrimination case over daughter's enrolment in school

Good news, it's only a pity they had to learn it from a financial perspective.

I hope we see more cases in all public services.

iptba · 26-09-2019 7:03pm

Johnson finally breaks his silence after backlash

Prime Minister Boris Johnson has finally addressed the outpouring of criticism following the heated debate in Parliament on Wednesday.

Speaking to the BBC, Johnson said:
We must deplore any threats to anybody, particularly female MPs.
Tempers need to come down, and people need to come together because it's only by getting Brexit done that you'll lance the boil, as it were, of the current anxiety and we will be able to get on with the domestic agenda."

https://edition.cnn.com/uk/live-news/boris-johnson-parliament-thursday-dle-intl/index.html

I think a threat to a male politician is comparable in its importance to a threat to a female politician.

iptba · 26-09-2019 7:17pm

Boy, 5, with autism 'put on record as sex offender’ after hugging classmate
Nursery school pupil Nathan was reported for hugging a classmate and his parents warned he would be placed on a record for the rest of his life, his family claim

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/us-news/boy-5-autism-put-record-20173215
It's not clear to me that he will be on any register for the rest of his life. But still, it shouldn't even be an option in a situation like this.

iptba · 29-09-2019 1:14am

I wonder what those who have complained about men-only spaces such as Portmarnock golf club (the Irish Equality Authority spent a lot of taxpayers' money on court cases) would say about something like this:

Spanish hotel has ‘no men allowed’ policy, even for visitors

https://metro.co.uk/2019/09/28/spanish-hotel-no-men-allowed-policy-even-visitors-10823754/

Mens Rights Thread

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