w/kg for BOP Ras rider

duffyshuffle · 28-09-2012 9:28am #1

Just wondering what the back of the pack Ras rider's w/kg @ FTP would be? Anyone any ideas? Not to win it, but to be able to complete or make a team.

Also, any figures for w/kg for A2, A3, A4 open race winners around the place, or loose guides as to what you'd need to be able to put out for each category?

Thanks

Hmmzis · 28-09-2012 1:57pm

I would also be interested in this. Since the rider and bike weights are not public in Strava it's a bit of a mystery.

From my own comparisons with strava times and playing around with my own test results, hr and a calculator I'd say you need more than 4w/kg. How much? Haven't got a clue.

Lumen · 28-09-2012 2:02pm

I think W/kg is only a small part of it, but since you're looking for a number I'd say 4.5 W/kg @ FTP for Ras packfill.

Ole Rodrigo · 28-09-2012 2:42pm

From watching TG4 the other night ?;) I too wondered what it would take, from a sentimental point of view it would be great to see more amateur Irish riders taking part. Is it a realistic aspiration if you put in the work, or would it also take years of inching up through the CI points system?

fondriest · 28-09-2012 2:52pm

Lumen wrote: »

I think W/kg is only a small part of it, but since you're looking for a number I'd say 4.5 W/kg @ FTP for Ras packfill.

I don't think 4.5w/kg would be enough , I rode this season as a very average A3 at 4.3w/kg and personally think I would just be slaughtered in a ras even as packfill.

morana · 28-09-2012 6:30pm

fondriest wrote: »

I don't think 4.5w/kg would be enough , I rode this season as a very average A3 at 4.3w/kg and personally think I would just be slaughtered in a ras even as packfill.

on the hills you would be but on the flatter stages you would be alright just sit tight find your group and away you go.

If you want to do the ras you really need to make the decision in december and plan your training. I did it 3 times and I was a C (3rd cat) the first 2 times. But you should try do it if you are young and eager.

it would give you a taste for the life of a pro and how poxy boring it is!!!!

duffyshuffle · 28-09-2012 9:49pm

Cheers guys, so what would you expect to be competitive at A4? Am I right in saying a few years ago to knick in to the Ras it would be easier than now with more euro teams over and stuff? So, if a young, keen rider wanted to make a stab having not raced, whats the starting point? You'd need a season racing to move up the ranks to then have another winter and good results at A3/A2 the next year early to be considered by a club? Are there any clubs that look like they could be invited/enter the roster? For the record, i'm not a young up and comer! Just interested!

duffyshuffle · 28-09-2012 9:51pm

Lumen wrote: »

I think W/kg is only a small part of it, but since you're looking for a number I'd say 4.5 W/kg @ FTP for Ras packfill.

small part? so handling, positioning, being able to use some of, if not all of your cunning? lactate clearing ability from surges?

duffyshuffle · 28-09-2012 9:55pm

morana wrote: »

on the hills you would be but on the flatter stages you would be alright just sit tight find your group and away you go.

If you want to do the ras you really need to make the decision in december and plan your training. I did it 3 times and I was a C (3rd cat) the first 2 times. But you should try do it if you are young and eager.

it would give you a taste for the life of a pro and how poxy boring it is!!!!

A very brief idea of a standard training week in Jan/Feb, Mar/Apr, May... etc... who did you ride for?

morana · 28-09-2012 10:17pm

duffyshuffle wrote: »

A very brief idea of a standard training week in Jan/Feb, Mar/Apr, May... etc... who did you ride for?

Mayo in the first 2 and Dublin Ravens in the last one!

My club is finglas Ravens. A typical week for us in those days would have been trying to get 300 miles in per week! 3x70m and 2 x40m is what us would try. we used to do a few weeks where we would do a spin on wednesday morning and a club race in the evenings believe it or not. I was still crap though

could manage the cat3's and 2's but not the 1's.

If you havent raced and want to do it I would say do a season at the very least and then possibly think about where you are. Put it like this if you are not comfy with the A2 then you will suffer like a dog.

btw it was 9 days in 92/93 only 8 now...soft bastards

Ryan is a good competitive rider in the Ras maybe he could give you a more of an insight of whats required to be in the front groups

cantalach · 28-09-2012 11:55pm

Hmmzis wrote: »

I would also be interested in this. Since the rider and bike weights are not public in Strava it's a bit of a mystery.

You can use Ferrari's formula to estimate W/kg from the VAM and gradient using the formula:

VAM / (200 + (10 * gradient))

For example, on Ryan Sherlock's KOM of the Shay Elliott climb, you can estimate his W/kg with:

1616 / (200 + (10 * 7.8)) = 5.81W/kg

Casati · 29-09-2012 3:15pm

morana wrote: »

on the hills you would be but on the flatter stages you would be alright just sit tight find your group and away you go.

If you want to do the ras you really need to make the decision in december and plan your training. I did it 3 times and I was a C (3rd cat) the first 2 times. But you should try do it if you are young and eager.

it would give you a taste for the life of a pro and how poxy boring it is!!!!

Poxy Boring???? If you think averaging 45 km/h over some of the roughest roads in Europe, line outs of 60kmph for 30 mins, in a bunch of 150 pro's and 50 club riders, 50 support cars, crowds at every finish and kids in every school waiting for your passing, for 4 hours a day is boring, then I love to see your day job! You need to ride another Rás

Beasty · 29-09-2012 4:50pm

Casati wrote: »

then I love to see your day job! You need to ride another Rás

CI board member and Liverpool fan. Doesn't get any more exciting really ....

morana · 29-09-2012 4:59pm

Casati wrote: »

Poxy Boring???? If you think averaging 45 km/h over some of the roughest roads in Europe, line outs of 60kmph for 30 mins, in a bunch of 150 pro's and 50 club riders, 50 support cars, crowds at every finish and kids in every school waiting for your passing, for 4 hours a day is boring, then I love to see your day job! You need to ride another Rás

that bit lasts for 3 hours the rest is crap! Get bags off to BB, shower bed, eat, Tv up all over again yeah believe me its boring!!! I have done 3 another maybe!

Exciting summer alright!!!!

YNWA

anthony_walsh · 30-09-2012 5:03pm

I'd say about 4.7 - 4.8 w/kg would get you around the Ras. You'd get away with a lot less on the flatter stages if you were smart in the bunch and in the cars.

Looking at 5.2 w/kg at minimum to stay with the front group over a sustained climb.

Beasty · 30-09-2012 6:08pm

anthony_walsh wrote: »

You'd get away with a lot less on the flatter stages if you were smart in the bunch and in the cars.

I think it was last year's Tour that the TV commentators mentioned one rider who had managed to get around a flat stage with an average power output of around 85w!

lennymc · 30-09-2012 6:13pm

interesting article on tdf rider power output here

amjon. · 01-10-2012 2:34pm

Here is an article about Nic Baldo's power numbers, the guy who won the Ras this year.

http://www.pbscience.com/blog/The-physiology-of-a-pro.html

Lumen · 01-10-2012 2:52pm

amjon. wrote: »

Here is an article about Nic Baldo's power numbers, the guy who won the Ras this year.

http://www.pbscience.com/blog/The-physiology-of-a-pro.html

"At rest (before the race pace trials) I measured both his haemoglobin (14.8) and haematocrit (44%) levels. These last two are probably on the low side for a young male - so he has gone home with a pack of Spatone and the promise of some training in the altitude chamber when he comes back in May. This will help boost his Hct levels in perfect time for his competition aims some 4 weeks after that trip. I will of course monitor his Hct levels during the May trip, as we know we cannot exceed the UCI's limit of 50%!"

:rolleyes:

edit: I should probably explain that rolleyes

This is a bit off-topic, but as far as I can tell from skimming research and anecdotes:

1. Training at altitude or simulated altitude ("live low, train high" or "live high, train high") does not increase HCT.
2. Living at altitude whilst training at sea level ("live high, train low") can increase HCT, if the "living" happens for 16 hours a day, but that will not cause an increase anywhere near 44 to 50+ HCT.
3. Spending 8h a night in a hypoxia tent ("sleep high, live low, train low") does not increase HCT, and possibly has an overall negative effect due to worse recovery.
4. Use of hypoxia tents is nonetheless a convenient explanation for variations in blood stats.

So I think there are doubts about the wisdom of this approach, but what the hell would I know.

w/kg for BOP Ras rider

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