Speed camera blitz 'to collect millions' for state coffers

Qadhafi · 22-09-2003 5:38pm #1

Speed camera blitz 'to collect millions' for state coffers
Treacy Hogan
Environment Correspondent
The Irish Independent
22-September-2003
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A NATIONWIDE rollout of speed cameras will help cut road deaths by more than one-fifth and prove a multi-million euro moneyspinner, a confidential top level Government report reveals.

A Government spend of €22.1m on cameras over the next five years will earn the Exchequer a massive €39.1m each year in fines - almost €200m over the period. It would also lead to savings of at least €500m in "social trauma" costs arising from health care, emergency services, employment, and other social costs.

The highly confidential report, obtained by the Irish Independent was commissioned by the National Roads Authority on behalf of the Government's High Level Group on Road Safety.

It also predicts that at the end of the five-year programme, the number of speed transgressions will have fallen from 15pc of all motorists to an amazing 2.3pc.

"The transgression rate would further decrease to the order of 6pc in the first 12 months as the impact of mass screening and the associated media campaign took effect," it claims.

Crucially, the wide-ranging study also shows that Ireland's current high speeding rate, one of the worst in the world, will fall significantly.

It was further learned that Justice Minister Michael McDowell and Transport Minsiter, Seamus Brennan will meet later this week to give the green light to private companies operating roadside speed cameras. The planned involvement of private companies follows legal advice from the Attorney General that the ministers can proceed with the radical plan for a clamper-style speed camera blitz.

The report, The Use of Speed Cameras in Ireland, carried out for the Government by consultants from the Monash University Accident Research Centre, Australia reveals that even a five fold increase in speed camera detections will "reduce casualty crashes by about 21pc".

But a far wider roll-out accompanied by an intensive media campaign and other initiatives such as penalty points, extra technology and dramatically improved garda enforcement could cut deaths and serious injuries by 30pc.

"The social and community benefits of a successful speed camera programme are high, with between 30pc and 50pc reduction in the costs of road trauma being saved by the implementation of a successful road safety strategy.

"Speed cameras themselves will not achieve this level of savings, but they are the single most significant factor with some jurisdictions reporting over 30pc of the overall savings attributed to a speed camera programme and associated media activity," it finds.

The report warns that a small speed camera programme that produces insufficient speed checks and prosecutions "will not be cost effective and is essentially a waste of money.

In order to produce the culture in Ireland where people believe if you speed you will be caught or prosecuted, some 60pc of the country's cars and trucks must be checked for speed every month. An average of 17 mobile speed cameras operating at least six hours every day, will be required along with strategically placed fixed cameras.

This will increase the number of speed fines to 62,000 a month or 764,000 a year.

The study says speed camera operations should be mounted on secondary as well as primary roads as reasearch indicated that this is where 80pc of serious speed related crashes occur. It warns there will also have to be a significant increase in "back office processing capacity" to meet the expected increased volumes of speed detections. It further claims that continuous monitoring of the speed camera programme is needed to ensure it deliver expected benefit.

Qadhafi · 23-09-2003 1:52pm

I think its a great idea, it can only help to further reduce the road deaths, and hopefully reduce insurance costs for motorists. In addition it will generate much needed revenue.

I hope the Government really press ahead and put the camera's up everywhere, and saturate the roads with them.

Johnmb · 25-09-2003 2:44pm

I hope they don't, under the circumstances above. What use are they on a long straight patch of dual carraigeway that has a limit of 40mph, but drivers often do 50mph? Its not dangerous, but it is speeding. Whereas, on a 30mph road in a housing estate, a car doing 40mph is very dangerous. Based on the article, they are more likely to put the cameras on the dual carraigeway in order to make money. The plan should be to make no money whatsoever with the cameras by putting them on dangerous roads. That way it means that nobody is speeding on the dangerous roads, and that is what the aim of speed cameras should be, to make the roads safer, not to let the government vote themselves another payrise.

Victor · 25-09-2003 4:51pm

It's about time traffic enforcement stopped being a drain on the exchequer.

Johnmb · 25-09-2003 6:12pm

Traffic contributes a lot more to the exchequer that it gets from the exchequer. You really should check these things out before making such statements. Also, for someone who is so accident prone, I'd have thought you'd prefer safety rather than income to be the prime concern of Environment minister.

Victor · 25-09-2003 7:39pm

I said

Originally posted by Victor
traffic enforcement

not traffic.

And actually paying the penalty is part of the problem, all to often there is no follow up on the spot fines and actually fines (see Comptroller and Auditor General's repost on fines).

And I'm not accident prone, I'm the victim of other people's stupidty, ignorance and selflishness.

De Rebel · 26-09-2003 4:52pm

I can see no reason why speeding fines shouldn't generate revenue. The fines themselves are so small in real terms not to be a disincentive to speeding. The points are a much greater disincentive and will have a real impact.

The real problem in this country, as Johnmb points out, are the anomalies in the speed limits. I know that the vast majority of speeding detections in the Cork area are on recently completed stretches of National Primary road, often dual carriageway and amount to nothing more than technical breaches because the speed limits are set unduly low. The cops spend hours each day wasting their time and our money snaring people for doing 65/60 on the South Ring road, a restricted access highway that could safely be driven at even higher speeds.

Meantime, on secondary roads, especially the outer suburbs, former "quiet country roads" that have not been upgraded now service estates of hundreds of houses, often with no limit other than the national 60mph. A feeder road near my house is daily crossed by 300/400 children near a poor visibility bend. The nominal speed limit is 40mph, however I have seen a speed trap here ONCE in 5 years. The average speed on the stretch is 50/55mph.

To be successful the law must be seen to be equitable. To achieve this the arbitrary decisions of road traffic engineers, often made under political pressure, should be subject to appeal to an independent national body.

padraigmyers · 29-09-2003 9:48am

Here here, thats exactly my sentiments. The idea of having some sort of place to
appeal the current speed limits is a great one, I wonder could it work though? The
new Watergrasshill bypass is now finished in Cork and I have traveled it a few times
in the last few days, I really can't see why a speed limit of 70mph (or more maybe)
would not be safe on this road, the same goes for the Mallow road into Cork, and the
Cork and Ennis roads into Limerick. Of course someone will always say that the
slower we drive the less accidents we will have, but in that case why dont we all just
drive at 5mph and then road deaths would probably be eliminated completly, a
comprimise between a "safe" speed and actually getting to where you are going in
resonable amount of time should be achivible and at the moment an arbituary speed
limit of 60mph in the majority of places just dosn't cut it.

Victor · 29-09-2003 6:41pm

Originally posted by padraigmyers
Of course someone will always say that the slower we drive the less accidents we will have, but in that case why dont we all just drive at 5mph and then road deaths would probably be eliminated completly, a

You are missing the point here:
(a) speed kills, as opposed to causing accidents generally (it contributes to accidents also, but that’s not the main point). Fatal accidents account for less than 2% of reported accidents (400 out of 22,000), but cause half the cost of all accidents.
(b) these new roads are designed for certain speeds, with the introduction of metric speed limits next year we are likely to see some modifications (especially the lowering of the general limit applying to boreens).

The typical design speeds for dual carriageway / motorways are 100 and 120 kmh. What is the bypass designed to? If it is designed to 100kmh, you should not exceed 100kmh on it.

padraigmyers · 30-09-2003 9:36am

This is the same old argument that it always comes down to, you think that the speed
limits should not be questioned and we should just assume that they are right and I
personally don't think a lot of them are.

My brother got two points on his licence for doing 37 in a 30mph zone on the way
into a town called Hospital just outside Limerick, 10 days after he got the points
(about 3 months ago) this area was changed to a 40mph zone, nothing was done to
the road but suddenly it was now safe to drive 10mph faster. The speed limits are
pretty arbituary here in this country and all major roads get a speed limit of 60mph
irrelevant of whether they are capable of having higher ones or not, they have to
have lights all the way along to be upgraded to 70mph, the quality of the road dosn't
have any effect the limit being raised above 60mph.

Qadhafi · 02-10-2003 10:03pm

they arent putting them everywhere just the accident blackspots. They are changing the road speeding limits next year and :

It will cut the road deaths
Reduce speeding
improve finances for roads
Help reduce insurance costs

Victor · 05-10-2003 11:17pm

Originally posted by Victor
And actually paying the penalty is part of the problem, all to often there is no follow up on the spot fines and actually fines (see Comptroller and Auditor General's repo[r]t on fines).

http://www.thepost.ie/web/DocumentView/did-829739182-pageUrl--2FThe-Newspaper-2FSundays-Paper-2FNews-2FIreland-2FAll-Ireland.asp

Gardai advertise for debt collector
05/10/03 00:00

The Garda Siochana have tendered for a debt collector to manage the collection of fines imposed under penalty points legislation.

The tender, published last Friday, seeks a company to "manage the payment and related functions of fixed charge notices", including administrative functions such as posting out invoices and following up on non-payment of debts. The deadline for receipt of tenders is November 17.

"Essentially,we are outsourcing the process of collecting payments," said a spokesman for the Garda tendering office. "The penalty points legislation has been in place for nigh on ten months, and this is the next step in terms of having the whole process functioning."

Our man in Havana · 07-10-2003 6:48pm

Why do they need a debt collector? If anyone doesnt pay they go to court and then get fined more.

Any way Debt collectors have limited powers to collect money without court orders.

Victor · 07-10-2003 6:59pm

Originally posted by Bond-James Bond
Why do they need a debt collector? If anyone doesnt pay they go to court and then get fined more. Any way Debt collectors have limited powers to collect money without court orders.

Because fines have the habit of not being paid / collected, Gardaí aren't trained in that job. See http://www.irlgov.ie/audgen/VFM_Publication/Summary/37_Collection%20of%20Fines/Background.htm

Clamping / confiscation does wonders to focus one's mind about paying that fine.

jd · 07-10-2003 7:04pm

Originally posted by De Rebel
To achieve this the arbitrary decisions of road traffic engineers, often made under political pressure, should be subject to appeal to an independent national body.

Engineers make recomendations in this instance, not regulations.

Victor · 07-10-2003 7:14pm

Originally posted by De Rebel
To be successful the law must be seen to be equitable. To achieve this the arbitrary decisions of road traffic engineers, often made under political pressure, should be subject to appeal to an independent national body.

Originally posted by jd
Engineers make recomendations in this instance, not regulations.

Indeed there are only two things covering speed limits. Regulations specify 30 (urban), 60 (general) & 70 (motorway) - there is no choice (roadworks and specific hazards aside). 40 can be applied by a local council where it deems 30 is too low, i.e. where a road is inside a town council area, but is not urbanised.

jd · 07-10-2003 7:28pm

Originally posted by Victor
40 can be applied by a local council where it deems 30 is too low, i.e. where a road is inside a town council area, but is not urbanised.

I think 50 can be adopted as well (see for N11 at various points.)
However you are right-the engineer can have an opinion, but the local authority makes the decision.

PhilipMarlowe · 07-10-2003 7:35pm

..rollout ...over the next five years will earn the Exchequer a massive €39.1m each year in fines - almost €200m over the period

This doesn't add up properly... how can they generate the full amount from year 0 when the spend is over 5 years (which usually would mean nothing done for the first 3 and a half or so)?
Or would they have averaged it out over the period?

Victor · 07-10-2003 7:50pm

Journalists and numbers don't mix.

Speed camera blitz 'to collect millions' for state coffers

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