School reopenings -current plan WAS McHugh's plan

rainbowtrout · 12-08-2020 2:00pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/0812/1158779-grades-challenge/

Assume he from that Burke family that are always in the headlines. Sister somehow managed to get into one of the NPHET briefings earlier in the year and caused some hassle.

He's taking an odd stance on it. He doesn't have a constitutional right to access the Leaving Cert.

Even at that, he has the right to sit the exams at a later date.

maynooth_rules · 12-08-2020 3:55pm

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Scottish and English governments are going into meltdown mode over exam results. Scotland has now given up on calculated grades and is allowing the teacher's grade whilst England will allow students to choose either their mock result or the calculated result. Both countries will see huge increases in high grades compared with the last few years.

Optimistic teachers (those who didn't follow the guidance) are being rewarded. Will we see the same here?

The kids sitting the exam next year will suffer. Essentially that will mean no bell curve of any order this year if it happens, which it no doubt will.

Notorious · 12-08-2020 6:50pm

Mardy Bum wrote: »

I'd be sceptical of any school that doesn't have money for ICT equipment considering the size of the grant over the last few years.

A member of our BOM was informed by the head of our ETB that any available money is being pushed to the newer schools instead of firing money at old buildings. I'm not sure if that was strictly for building works, or if it related to IT. But I know we didn't get a lot from our ETB for computers.

We got a trolley of iPads when we wanted desktops and to repair broken projectors.

am_zarathustra · 12-08-2020 7:02pm

Notorious wrote: »

A member of our BOM was informed by the head of our ETB that any available money is being pushed to the newer schools instead of firing money at old buildings. I'm not sure if that was strictly for building works, or if it related to IT. But I know we didn't get a lot from our ETB for computers.

We got a trolley of iPads when we wanted desktops and to repair broken projectors.

I'm in an ETB, the grant is specifically for the school itself. It's in a different account accessed by it's own code for Head Office. Couldn't be used by another school and shouldn't be used for anything other than ICT. It's per capita with a set amount to start

Mardy Bum · 12-08-2020 8:01pm

Notorious wrote: »

A member of our BOM was informed by the head of our ETB that any available money is being pushed to the newer schools instead of firing money at old buildings. I'm not sure if that was strictly for building works, or if it related to IT. But I know we didn't get a lot from our ETB for computers.

We got a trolley of iPads when we wanted desktops and to repair broken projectors.

Alarm bells should be ringing. The person was told lies.

rainbowtrout · 12-08-2020 9:35pm

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Alarm bells should be ringing. The person was told lies.

I dunno. Our ETB keeps half our grant 'for IT maintenance'. :rolleyes:

am_zarathustra · 12-08-2020 10:08pm

Ah here, what? The ICT in our Etb is appaling, they haven't a clue. I'd be furious if they were getting any of the grant

ethical · 13-08-2020 8:47am

ETBs are a law unto themselves and use their collective bargaining power to get the most they can and then "redustribute" it as they see fit.
Could people not cop on and look at the on going enquiries into the carry on in some ETBs in the country.They are well publicised in the Print Media and also on the national station through Primetime Investigates.Its only a matter of time before they are all investigated and then we will see how the funds (taxpayers money) is divied out and how much is ringfenced for the cronies in the Golden Circle and fcuk the rest of ye attitude!

combat14 · 13-08-2020 8:59am

Increasing number of Covid-19 cases outside of locked-down counties 'a concern

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/increasing-number-of-covid-19-cases-outside-of-locked-down-counties-a-concern-39445575.html

This is an incredible article in Indo this morning where Dr Glynn is concerned about rising levels of community transmission outside 3 lockdown counties of kildare, laois and offaly ...

the word hope is used alot and dr glynn and the govt seem to believe that the kids wont get sick when they catch covid in the schools I.e. they hope cases will be asymptomatic while at the same time hoping schools wont close while forgetting that kids can pass this on to parents, siblings, grand parents, teachers, SNAs, principals, shops and the wider community

and forgetting that all these contacts who they no longer can trace can also pass it on to co-workers and others too ..

why did schools close In the first case if this powerful hope is so scientifically sound and strong?!!

Notorious · 13-08-2020 9:22am

am_zarathustra wrote: »

I'm in an ETB, the grant is specifically for the school itself. It's in a different account accessed by it's own code for Head Office. Couldn't be used by another school and shouldn't be used for anything other than ICT. It's per capita with a set amount to start

Yeah, I know. It doesn't stop our ETB from dipping their hand in though. Sure who is going to stop them? The principal isn't going to ruffle any feathers. Everything has to go through the IT guys in head office and they are beyond useless.

When the building had a WiFi infrastructure setup we went months afterwards without being given the password. IT didn't think teachers should have access because we'd all hook up with our personal devices and slow the network down. Our students haven't their own devices, so nobody used it for months.

rainbowtrout · 13-08-2020 9:47am

combat14 wrote: »

Increasing number of Covid-19 cases outside of locked-down counties 'a concern

https://m.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/increasing-number-of-covid-19-cases-outside-of-locked-down-counties-a-concern-39445575.html

This is an incredible article in Indo this morning where Dr Glynn is concerned about rising levels of community transmission outside 3 lockdown counties of kildare, laois and offaly ...

the word hope is used alot and dr glynn and the govt seem to believe that the kids wont get sick when they catch covid in the schools I.e. they hope cases will be asymptomatic while at the same time hoping schools wont close while forgetting that kids can pass this on to parents, siblings, grand parents, teachers, SNAs, principals, shops and the wider community

and forgetting that all these contacts who they no longer can trace can also pass it on to co-workers and others too ..

why did schools close In the first case if this powerful hope is so scientifically sound and strong?!!

I think we’ve adopted the Swedish model, they’re just not saying it.

I also think that the CMO and NPHET have a very poor understanding of how schools work (in particular secondary schools) if they think the only people that have to isolate are the people in the class of the student that tests positive. Let’s see, who are their contacts:

Well lots of students from different year groups if they come to school by bus.
Any students in their year group that share a class with them, that’s going to be lots of students.
Any students they are friends with from a different year group that they hang around with at break/lunch.
Any student they spend time with doing an extra curricular activity whether that be inside or outside school.

It’s not just the ‘24’ in their class like the powers that be seem to think.

Treppen · 13-08-2020 9:54am

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I dunno. Our ETB keeps half our grant 'for IT maintenance'. :rolleyes:

It should go to each individual school.
To my knowledge (I'm not ETB though) It's the individual school that has to apply for it so I don't see how an ETB department can intervene.

This is public money so you should demand to see where it went, especially if nothing reached your school.... Or is this another case of someone in the ETB had a brother in IT who got the money for a 'consultation'.

Simple question to all local TDs requesting details how the money was spent.

am_zarathustra · 13-08-2020 10:18am

Notorious wrote: »

Yeah, I know. It doesn't stop our ETB from dipping their hand in though. Sure who is going to stop them? The principal isn't going to ruffle any feathers. Everything has to go through the IT guys in head office and they are beyond useless.

When the building had a WiFi infrastructure setup we went months afterwards without being given the password. IT didn't think teachers should have access because we'd all hook up with our personal devices and slow the network down. Our students haven't their own devices, so nobody used it for months.

I'm in an ETB myself and the waste is shocking, and I spend a fair amount of time explaining to ICT what I want them to do, be faster if I did it but that would make their job redundant! The level of paperwork is amazing, a d I completely agree with the inner circle comment.

But, and maybe it's just my ETB, I've never seen grants being used by head office. They are deposited straight into school accounts. They would need to be moved after the fact. The principal must have no backbone of they are doing that and it is absolutely not what this money should be used for. I'd definitely be querying it with my local councillor/TD, whichever isn't on one of their boards!

I did hear from someone around a long time that there were more ancillary and office staff in our ETB than teachers......I'm inclined to believe this. A health and safety officer arrived out regarding Covid, never heard or seen this person before......I've been there 6 years

am_zarathustra · 13-08-2020 10:21am

Treppen wrote: »

It should go to each individual school.
To my knowledge (I'm not ETB though) It's the individual school that has to apply for it so I don't see how an ETB department can intervene.

This is public money so you should demand to see where it went, especially if nothing reached your school.... Or is this another case of someone in the ETB had a brother in IT who got the money for a 'consultation'.

Simple question to all local TDs requesting details how the money was spent.

Worth looking at the school is Roscommon that was using money for food for kids form disadvantaged backgrounds for sport equipment......I actually shouldn't be surprised this is happening, I would just hope in most schools staff would go mental but that depends on the structure of the system too

rainbowtrout · 13-08-2020 11:09am

am_zarathustra wrote: »

Worth looking at the school is Roscommon that was using money for food for kids form disadvantaged backgrounds for sport equipment......I actually shouldn't be surprised this is happening, I would just hope in most schools staff would go mental but that depends on the structure of the system too

That’s not exactly the story at all.

Blondini · 13-08-2020 11:13am

rainbowtrout wrote: »

I think we’ve adopted the Swedish model, they’re just not saying it.

I also think that the CMO and NPHET have a very poor understanding of how schools work (in particular secondary schools) if they think the only people that have to isolate are the people in the class of the student that tests positive. Let’s see, who are their contacts:

Well lots of students from different year groups if they come to school by bus.
Any students in their year group that share a class with them, that’s going to be lots of students.
Any students they are friends with from a different year group that they hang around with at break/lunch.
Any student they spend time with doing an extra curricular activity whether that be inside or outside school.

It’s not just the ‘24’ in their class like the powers that be seem to think.

I think we all know that schools full reopening is the first major step towards herd immunity.

combat14 · 13-08-2020 11:38am

Blondini wrote: »

I think we all know that schools full reopening is the first major step towards herd immunity.

guess all the office workers can go back once schools are on the go for a week or two

r93kaey5p2izun · 13-08-2020 1:03pm

Notorious wrote: »

Yeah, I know. It doesn't stop our ETB from dipping their hand in though. Sure who is going to stop them? The principal isn't going to ruffle any feathers. Everything has to go through the IT guys in head office and they are beyond useless.

When the building had a WiFi infrastructure setup we went months afterwards without being given the password. IT didn't think teachers should have access because we'd all hook up with our personal devices and slow the network down. Our students haven't their own devices, so nobody used it for months.

This all sounds very like my experience in an ETB school. Wifi password guarded like a state secret. Every device had to be handed to the principal to have it put in. Nobody allowed to have admin access no matter what. Teachers sent to ipad training courses in head office but then not able to download any of the apps required because they didn't have the password and principal said tough luck.

TheValeyard · 13-08-2020 2:21pm

combat14 wrote: »

guess all the office workers can go back once schools are on the go for a week or two

We're definitely been drip feed the herd immunity approach.

https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/news/ireland-could-develop-herd-immunity-to-coronavirus-varadkar-39444743.html

combat14 · 13-08-2020 3:28pm

TheValeyard wrote: »

We're definitely been drip feed the herd immunity approach.

https://amp.independent.ie/irish-news/news/ireland-could-develop-herd-immunity-to-coronavirus-varadkar-39444743.html

one has to wonder why all the office workers cant go back now before schools if it is safe for schools to do so .. ??

khalessi · 13-08-2020 3:57pm

combat14 wrote: »

one has to wonder why all the office workers cant go back now before schools if it is safe for schools to do so .. ??

One would also wonder when the TDs will give up the conference centre and return to the the Dail buildings, since it is so safe.

Blondini · 13-08-2020 7:08pm

combat14 wrote: »

one has to wonder why all the office workers cant go back now before schools if it is safe for schools to do so .. ??

This is the moment of realisation that you are the sample being observed in the Petri dish to determine future decisions!

KrustyBurger · 13-08-2020 7:38pm

Blondini wrote: »

This is the moment of realisation that you are the sample being observed in the Petri dish to determine future decisions!

Where is the outrage?

Who will stand up and say No?

The unions have let us down badly here.

Smacruairi · 13-08-2020 7:40pm

KrustyBurger wrote: »

Where is the outrage?

Who will stand up and say No?

The unions have let us down badly here.

Again, we have 2 weeks to go. Leo saying his piece has alerted the most soporific parents to the inadequacies of the plan. I think they are doing well staying out of thr way and letting the silence do the damage.

I'd rather they focus on the prepost 2011 supervision rates to lay the ground work for future pay equalities.

KrustyBurger · 13-08-2020 7:45pm

Smacruairi wrote: »

Again, we have 2 weeks to go. Leo saying his piece has alerted the most soporific parents to the inadequacies of the plan. I think they are doing well staying out of thr way and letting the silence do the damage.

I'd rather they focus on the prepost 2011 supervision rates to lay the ground work for future pay equalities.

I really hope you're right.

wirelessdude01 · 13-08-2020 8:15pm

KrustyBurger wrote: »

Where is the outrage?

Who will stand up and say No?

The unions have let us down badly here.

Personally think the unions as a while are playing a blinder. Media and parents are starting to question things as schools start communicating their back to school set ups and realisation is dawning on the more clued in parents what is actually happening.

Is unions were protesting pouring and thumping tables over the plan there would be only one narrative. Lazy teachers not wanting to go back, what about the poor students education, what about their mental health, teachers looking for danger money and/or a pay rise. This would have been the media angle, we all know it. Teachers and schools are doing their bit, not out fault that we are hamstrung by the 'plan'.

alroley · 13-08-2020 8:21pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Personally think the unions as a while are playing a blinder. Media and parents are starting to question things as schools start communicating their back to school set ups and realisation is dawning on the more clued in parents what is actually happening.

Is unions were protesting pouring and thumping tables over the plan there would be only one narrative. Lazy teachers not wanting to go back, what about the poor students education, what about their mental health, teachers looking for danger money and/or a pay rise. This would have been the media angle, we all know it. Teachers and schools are doing their bit, not out fault that we are hamstrung by the 'plan'.

I completely agree. The only people that the media and government will listen to are the parents.

killbillvol2 · 13-08-2020 8:54pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Personally think the unions as a while are playing a blinder. Media and parents are starting to question things as schools start communicating their back to school set ups and realisation is dawning on the more clued in parents what is actually happening.

Is unions were protesting pouring and thumping tables over the plan there would be only one narrative. Lazy teachers not wanting to go back, what about the poor students education, what about their mental health, teachers looking for danger money and/or a pay rise. This would have been the media angle, we all know it. Teachers and schools are doing their bit, not out fault that we are hamstrung by the 'plan'.

I'd agree that the unions should keep quiet. In John Boyle's case it's probably not a strategy though. I think he's on holidays. Hopefully they'll lock him in a room and gag him when he comes back.

KrustyBurger · 13-08-2020 10:03pm

I get the logic but it's boils down to a question of trust in the unions.

If the parents adopt a wait and see approach do we meekly walk back into school and jeopardise our health?

When do you see action being taken and by whom?

Smacruairi · 13-08-2020 10:13pm

KrustyBurger wrote: »

I get the logic but it's boils down to a question of trust in the unions.

If the parents adopt a wait and see approach do we meekly walk back into school and jeopardise our health?

When do you see action being taken and by whom?

Well it'll be a phased return end of Aug start of Sept. Parents association etc will be meeting them too with the boms. Plenty of time for more discussions and to present a united front.... Hopefully!

am_zarathustra · 13-08-2020 10:53pm

Simeon Mysterious Minibike wrote: »

This all sounds very like my experience in an ETB school. Wifi password guarded like a state secret. Every device had to be handed to the principal to have it put in. Nobody allowed to have admin access no matter what. Teachers sent to ipad training courses in head office but then not able to download any of the apps required because they didn't have the password and principal said tough luck.

That actually was the case in the school I'm in. No one could get devices on the network either. When I arrived I had no idea, so a quick look at a networked computer and the server and I had both sorted. I had the printer set up on my phone by the end of the day and half the staffroom on the wifi.........no idea it was some mad secret, I'd shown a couple how to get the password too.

When I was queried I just incredulously asked why we would have a wifi network or an intranet if no one could access it. Honestly, if you think a few phones are slowing your wifi you'd want your head examined.

TheValeyard · 14-08-2020 8:14am

am_zarathustra wrote: »

When I was queried I just incredulously asked why we would have a wifi network or an intranet if no one could access it. Honestly, if you think a few phones are slowing your wifi you'd want your head examined.

While I completely agree with what you're saying. We did run into an unexpected problem. Students kept getting the wifi code. We had over 1000 devices connected to the network. While it didn't slow the service, we did however literally run out of IP addressss are other staff could no connect to the network.

shesty · 14-08-2020 9:03am

Surely it could be set up for teachers only.
Surely.

mirrorwall14 · 14-08-2020 9:09am

We had huge issues a few years ago with a maximum of 1000 devices too in a school that was transitioning to 1:1 devices. To the point that there was uncertainty if my Apple TV which I bought for my classroom could be use. It was mental but did get sorted in the end. However the WiFi is now so completely unreliable and unusable that I can’t use my Apple TV anyways and have mostly given up on it. Drives me demented

I mean theoretically we should be one of the schools who can live stream to overflow rooms without difficulty since we are 1:1. But honestly I couldn’t rely on it unless there was work done before school starts

TheValeyard · 14-08-2020 9:27am

shesty wrote: »

Surely it could be set up for teachers only.
Surely.

It is. But some numpty in the classroom leaves the code open or on the board. Or some staff member just tells the students.

Remember we changed the WiFi code in February.

9am new code, 64 members logged on

11am, 780 logged on. Student had the code by then.

It's incredibly difficult to beat back staff stupidity.

shesty · 14-08-2020 9:41am

Ah here.Your own worst enemies so.

Possible other solution then is to possibly have an open student network and a closed teacher one -but I appreciate that is most likely more money.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 14-08-2020 11:17am

If we're to reduce paper the students shud have access to a network. I'd use online resources a lot in class and I've to use my mobile hotspot which can be as slow as a wet week, not really good enough in this day and age.

am_zarathustra · 14-08-2020 5:05pm

It's a pain with IPs, we set it up so wifi IPs were kicked off when inactive for a certain time, all our class computers etc were wired. Worked well, kids were essentially kicked off every class they had. Vpns were and issue too. Gave access to everything. Hard to keep it all locked down if you have kids with laptops too, they can get the password

Leftwaffe · 14-08-2020 5:58pm

Management in our place trying to squeeze in space for 28/30 girls in each classroom now. This isnt going to end well. I knew the likes of this would happen.

alroley · 14-08-2020 6:00pm

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

Management in our place trying to squeeze in space for 28/30 girls in each classroom now. This isnt going to end well. I knew the likes of this would happen.

Just found out the same. They're saying my old classroom can fit 28. I had 30 in there last year for my 1st year class with desks all squished together.

combat14 · 14-08-2020 6:57pm

67 new cases here today 74 in NI
that's 141 cases on the island confirmed in the last 24 hours - it must be rampant out there now..

Ireland 'sleep-walking' toward major coronavirus outbreak unless there's a radical strategy change - expert warns

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/ireland-sleep-walking-toward-major-coronavirus-outbreak-unless-theres-a-radical-strategy-change-expert-warns-39449741.html

looks like urgent work needed on govts covid strategy before schools reopen in 2 weeks

Icsics · 14-08-2020 7:01pm

Schools will open no matter what...when the outbreaks start the schools can be blamed

deiseindublin · 14-08-2020 10:55pm

Seems there was misinformation or misunderstanding in some schools about the 1 metre distance, ETB thought it was head to head but now it seems it's measured from shoulder. 1 metre from head to head would be fairly tightly spaced imo.

I'd say with all of these things, the devil is in the detail.

DubLad69 · 14-08-2020 11:19pm

deiseindublin wrote: »

Seems there was misinformation or misunderstanding in some schools about the 1 metre distance, ETB thought it was head to head but now it seems it's measured from shoulder. 1 metre from head to head would be fairly tightly spaced imo.

I'd say with all of these things, the devil is in the detail.

The way that we measured it was that it needed to be one meter from any body part when the student is in their seat. Taking into account that a student can be both sitting up straight or bent over the desk writing.

We were due to vote for the LWR today but it was delayed due to some issue with the unions.

am_zarathustra · 14-08-2020 11:25pm

How exactly do we measure it? There definitely seems to be a lot of variance. Head to head seems mad give hoe much you love depending on what you are doing or even if your listening, writing, drawing etc. I can't remember seeing specifics in the documents but maybe I missed them?

deiseindublin · 14-08-2020 11:35pm

It was very vague but I believe it is being clarified by TUI anyway.

killbillvol2 · 15-08-2020 12:00am

We need the nuns back in schools to enforce social distancing - leave enough room for the Holy Spirit

am_zarathustra · 15-08-2020 11:43am

I have to say the varience of response across schools is insane. There are schools building outdoor roofed Astros for lunch and schools doing nothing......I wonder will it draw attention to the less proactive principals out there

Leftwaffe · 15-08-2020 11:50am

am_zarathustra wrote: »

I have to say the varience of response across schools is insane. There are schools building outdoor roofed Astros for lunch and schools doing nothing......I wonder will it draw attention to the less proactive principals out there

We're doing nothing building wise only removing furniture. Even at that they're trying to squeeze in a minimum of 28 in every room and 30+ in the bigger ones.

Our return is going to be relatively normal except everyone will be wearing masks. Making masks mandatory is actually going to be counter productive in our place as they think all SD can be thrown out the window.

am_zarathustra · 15-08-2020 12:18pm

It's crazy, where is that extra money going? Is it down to the paperwork not being done because they aren't bothered. At the very least it's an opertunity to add something small to the school, outside paving or benches or whatever, seems mad to pass it up when it so rare

School reopenings -current plan WAS McHugh's plan

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