Irish military involvement

pinkypinky · 16-08-2010 2:33pm #1

So for once I am the one asking for suggestions.

My great-grandfather died young and his occupations are generally listed as unskilled labouring or porter. I got hold of the death cert of his daughter (who died age 7) last week and she is listed as the child of a soldier. There's no record of his being in the army. Family lore would suggest it's much more likely to be war of Independence or Free State activity than the British army. He unhelpfully has quite a common name so I can't check the WWI medal rolls without spending a fortune. I'm composing a letter to the Military Archives and have to get hold of my Dad's birth cert first to prove my direct descent but I'm wondering does anyone have any further suggestions.

My grandmother was born only 5 years before her elder sister died, and he is not listed as a solider on it. She was born 1919, the sister died 1924. You can see why the dates suggest civil war/war of independence to me.

Any thoughts?

brianthebard · 16-08-2010 3:46pm

There was an IRA pension in the 20s/30s wasn't there? Is that in the archives somewhere, is it searchable in any way?

pinkypinky · 16-08-2010 4:13pm

There is - military archives but not generally open to the public. My feeling is that this may have been a very short service. It's hard to imagine we wouldn't have heard mention of his being involved in any serious way. His wife lived until the late 1970s.

ifconfig · 16-08-2010 7:01pm

For old-IRA records I could be wrong as I missed that section of the WDYTYA BBC episode concerning Dervla Kirwan but my wife mentioned to me that she got to see his IRA file at some location (Cathal Brugha Barracks ?) and that it was stated that the public can visit there and get records if they exist.
In Dervla Kirwan's case the family member was rather senior on account of Collins connections.

Actually just saw this (relating to the Free State Army -- which would be a more likely association with your g-gfather based on dates)
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?PHPSESSID=pqi855ac7aufc4jalj7me5kv84&topic=134432.0\

(Kudos to poster, "If Only" on that forum)

Military Archives
Cathal Brugha Barracks
Rathmines
Dublin 6
Ireland
Telephone: (01) 497 5499.

I am interested in this too.
I have 3 grand uncles who all had service in WWI for the Royal Dublin Fusilliers and were Catholic. At least 2 of them got positions in the Free State Army some time after return on account of their military experience.
One with regards to tank mounted machine gun technology, I am told.
The lore in his case was that he was part of an engineering team asked to investigate the mechanical causes of Michael Collins' accompanying party in Beal na Mbláth's machine gun failing to return fire at the time of the ambush.
I'd be interested to see their records in the Free State Army.

The lore I have heard is that they became disillusioned in the aftermath of Collins' assasination. However, I've since learned from someone with a more objective view that a huge chunk of the Free state army were let go or "de-mobbed" not long after the Civil war was officially over. Apparently the ranks had swelled to a level unsustainable in terms of salaries or accomodation and pension, etc.
In our case the men emigrated to Canada where they put the French they learned while on duty in WWI to good use !

I wish you well in your research on your g-grandfather!

-ifc

pinkypinky · 16-08-2010 8:16pm

Thanks - the military archives I referred to are in the Cathal Brugha Barracks. It says on their website that for certain types of files, they don't generally let the public see them. I'll report back on what they say.

sweet-rasmus · 17-08-2010 10:23pm

Yeah, I would be a bit unhappy if they are prepared to let Dervla Kirwan in with the filming crew but not the general public.

John Mason · 29-08-2010 5:20pm

i applied for my g-grandfather military records from cathel burgha about 8 weeks ago, i haven't heard anything since.

well, when i say i applied for them - my brother is in the army and stationed at cathal brugha, i composed a letter on his behalf stating he was was Sargent mcgrath's great grandson ..........giving all the relevant details and including my brothers army details.

thinking to myself "genius - i got to skip the queue":P

no such look - my brother actually knows the guy working in there and has been back in a few times, as he is leaving the army at the end of the month.

they have a huge backlog so dont expect anything in a hurry:(:(:(

RIRI · 03-09-2010 9:51pm

Pinkypink,

I will happily check WWI Medal Rollson ancestry for you if you want to give me the details

pinkypinky · 04-09-2010 11:41am

Riri,

Many thanks for the offer: I've already checked it and confirmed he was not involved in WW1.
PP

John Mason · 04-10-2010 6:01pm

well, my g-grandfathers records turned up today and i am very confused.

according to the records he enlisted in 1922 and was discharged in 1924 but according to my gran in was in the army until he retired.

and he appears to only have been a private rather then a Sargent like she said

pinkypinky · 05-10-2010 9:21am

I'm sure you've thought of this but did he later join the British army? What does his death cert say for profession? Any retired army I have say: "retired colour sergeant" or whatever.

John Mason · 07-10-2010 1:01pm

pinkypinky wrote: »

I'm sure you've thought of this but did he later join the British army? What does his death cert say for profession? Any retired army I have say: "retired colour sergeant" or whatever.

he went from the british army to the irish army.

i always thought it was weird that his gravestone doesnt say "Sargent McGrath"

i gran is a bit of an airhead really, so i suppose i should take everything she says with a pinch of salt :P

Irish military involvement

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