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M50 toll - timing and allocation

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  • 16-07-2019 12:08pm
    #1
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭


    Hypothetically…



    You’re driving on the M50 on a Sunday on the way to the airport. Two days later you pay the M50 toll using your phone.

    On the return journey, following Sunday, (sitting in the passenger seat) you go pay the return journey and you realise when on holiday you paid your own car reg rather than the actual car (your wife’s). One toll for the wife’s reg was then paid and etolls was then emailed (also on Sunday while travelling home) requesting they transfer the payment made re my reg (which wasn’t anywhere near the M50) to my wife’s reg.

    On arriving home we found a letter from etolls requesting the fine payment (double the original fee).

    No response has yet been received from etolls regarding email.

    Questions arising from this.

    1. Can etolls insist (and be legally enforceable) on the fine payment so quickly after the toll journey - Less than a week?

    2. Would they be obliged to allocate a payment or refund a payment for a vehicle no toll applied to?

    Is there any precedent re toll charging?

    In business a late fee penalty interest is allowed, but it’s nowhere as large as 100% of the original amount within a few days. That’s the type of interest a money lender or "Amigo" loans type could only dream of.


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    #2
    brianwalshcork
    Registered Users Posts: 607 ✭✭✭brianwalshcork


    call them: +353 1 4610122
    I've found them lenient enough when I messed up in the past.


    Our opening hours are 8am to 9pm, 7 days a week
    LoCall (from Ireland): 1890 50 10 50
    Local Area: 01 4610011
    UK / NI: 0845 30 15 405
    Intl: +800 50 10 50 11 22
    (mainly from fixed lines only from UK, Germany, Spain, France, USA, Italy, Netherlands, Portugal). If you are having difficulty with this number, please call us on +353 1 4610122
    Fax (from Ireland): 01 443 0555
    Fax (from outside Ireland): +353 1 443 0555
    Post: eFlow, Cape House, Westend Office Park, Dublin 15


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    #3
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭markpb


    I’d call them, explain your mistake and ask for help. They’re usually quite good. Any attempt to question their policies will be a waste of your time. Everything they do (including the penalties for non-payment) is backed by legislation / by-laws because they’re operating on behalf of the government.


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    #4
    Victor
    Registered Users Posts: 78,287 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    Deleted User wrote: »
    1. Can etolls insist (and be legally enforceable) on the fine payment so quickly after the toll journey - Less than a week?
    That's about 6 days late.
    Is there any precedent re toll charging?
    What type of precedent?
    In business a late fee penalty interest is allowed, but it’s nowhere as large as 100% of the original amount within a few days.
    It's not interest, it's a statutory charge.

    If you are a few days late with a bank lodgement and your account goes overdrawn, you'll be hit for €10-20.


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    #5
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Victor wrote: »
    That's about 6 days late.


    Journey happened on a Sunday. We returned on a Sundary and the post was waiting for us. Therefore received on a Friday latest, latest possibly sent Thursday... about 4 days later.
    Victor wrote: »

    What type of precedent?

    That they can raise a penalty so quickly.
    Victor wrote: »
    it's a statutory charge.

    As in raised by the Dail? Okay, in that case if the Dail gives a private company such powers.


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    #6
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭markpb


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    As in raised by the Dail? Okay, in that case if the Dail gives a private company such powers.

    The private company are only collecting the money to give to owners of the bridge, the government. They are irrelevant.


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    #7
    Krombopulos Michael
    Registered Users Posts: 1,088 ✭✭✭Krombopulos Michael


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Journey happened on a Sunday. We returned on a Sundary and the post was waiting for us. Therefore received on a Friday latest, latest possibly sent Thursday... about 4 days later.



    That they can raise a penalty so quickly.



    As in raised by the Dail? Okay, in that case if the Dail gives a private company such powers.

    If you explain you paid for another reg by mistake, their system will show that reg was not recorded going through the toll, and yours was. They will just transfer the payment to the correct car and get rid of the fine. This happened for me.


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    #8
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    markpb wrote: »
    The private company are only collecting the money to give to owners of the bridge, the government. They are irrelevant.

    It's more complicated than that, but a subject for a different thread.


  • Options
    #9
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    brianwalshcork wrote: »
    call them: +353 1 4610122
    I've found them lenient enough when I messed up in the past.

    Yeah, just called them there and they couldn't have been more helpful. They waived the excess as well. So, my stupidity goes unpunished. :eek::cool::D


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    #10
    Krombopulos Michael
    Registered Users Posts: 1,088 ✭✭✭Krombopulos Michael


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yeah, just called them there and they couldn't have been more helpful. They waived the excess as well. So, my stupidity goes unpunished. :eek::cool::D

    It happens often. I have a toll tag, and some times I drive my wifes car and forget to bring my tag with me. Quick call and they put the charge onto the correct car. If you tried to pay and made a mistake, they are reasonable.

    If you're a dodgy bugger, you may end up in court ;)
    https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/0715/1062263-m50-toll/


  • Options
    #11
    amcalester
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,121 ✭✭✭amcalester


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yeah, just called them there and they couldn't have been more helpful. They waived the excess as well. So, my stupidity goes unpunished. :eek::cool::D

    I've always found them to be very reasonable.

    Rented a van last year and forgot to pay the M50 toll on time, rang up and was told to pay it in shop instead of over the phone and they'd most likely waive the late fee.

    Did that and never head back.


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    #12
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭markpb


    Deleted User wrote: »
    It's more complicated than that, but a subject for a different thread.

    The OP is happy now. What's more complicated about it? :) The tolling operator is responsible for (and paid for) collecting the toll payments (and penalties) and pass them to TII who own the bridge. The fares and penalties are all in the by-laws I posted earlier.


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    #13
    Alun
    Registered Users Posts: 21,432 ✭✭✭✭Alun


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yeah, just called them there and they couldn't have been more helpful. They waived the excess as well. So, my stupidity goes unpunished. :eek::cool::D
    To avoid any future mistakes/errors/oversights register for a video account with them. Doesn't cost a thing and you get a €0.50 discount on the normal price, so €2.60 instead of €3.10.


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    #14
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    markpb wrote: »
    The OP is happy now. What's more complicated about it? :) The tolling operator is responsible for (and paid for) collecting the toll payments (and penalties) and pass them to TII who own the bridge. The fares and penalties are all in the by-laws I posted earlier.

    Wasn't the M50 part financed by PPP?

    But, if the Dail passed the legislation then fair enough. We can at least hold them somewhat accountable for an authoritarian system. Being told to pay by next day or face a doubling of the fee is authoritarian in my book.


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    #15
    markpb
    Registered Users Posts: 9,255 ✭✭✭markpb


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Wasn't the M50 part financed by PPP?

    But, if the Dail passed the legislation then fair enough. We can at least hold them somewhat accountable for an authoritarian system. Being told to pay by next day or face a doubling of the fee is authoritarian in my book.

    The Westlink was originally a PPP project between NRA (now TII) and NTR (a private company). Around 2008, the government bought out the remainder of the PPP contract so the bridge is entirely state owned.

    The eFlow contact is now between TII and eMovis, with eMovis being a tolling operator only with no ownership of the bridge or toll at all. They collect the money, send it to TII and get paid a fee for doing it.

    As for the short timeframes for payment, you know as well as I do that offering longer payment terms would only mean more people would forgot and they'd spend more money chasing them. And, in the case of honest mistakes, they're flexible enough to correct them without any penalty. In fact, there have been plenty of examples posted here of people running up bigger bills than the OP and having them written off. The only people being penalised are the people determined not to pay.


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    #16
    Seve OB
    Registered Users Posts: 15,846 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Hypothetically…



    You’re driving on the M50 on a Sunday on the way to the airport. Two days later you pay the M50 toll using your phone.

    On the return journey, following Sunday, (sitting in the passenger seat) you go pay the return journey and you realise when on holiday you paid your own car reg rather than the actual car (your wife’s). One toll for the wife’s reg was then paid and etolls was then emailed (also on Sunday while travelling home) requesting they transfer the payment made re my reg (which wasn’t anywhere near the M50) to my wife’s reg.

    On arriving home we found a letter from etolls requesting the fine payment (double the original fee).

    No response has yet been received from etolls regarding email.

    Questions arising from this.

    1. Can etolls insist (and be legally enforceable) on the fine payment so quickly after the toll journey - Less than a week?

    2. Would they be obliged to allocate a payment or refund a payment for a vehicle no toll applied to?

    Is there any precedent re toll charging?

    In business a late fee penalty interest is allowed, but it’s nowhere as large as 100% of the original amount within a few days. That’s the type of interest a money lender or "Amigo" loans type could only dream of.

    so it wasn't hypothetical at all :)


  • Options
    #17
    Seve OB
    Registered Users Posts: 15,846 ✭✭✭✭Seve OB


    Krombopulos Michael wrote: »
    It happens often. I have a toll tag, and some times I drive my wifes car and forget to bring my tag with me. Quick call and they put the charge onto the correct car. If you tried to pay and made a mistake, they are reasonable.

    If you're a dodgy bugger, you may end up in court ;)
    https://www.rte.ie/news/courts/2019/0715/1062263-m50-toll/

    so you bring your tag in your wifes car on the M50?

    grand for toll barriers, but for M50 that wouldn't work. your tag is registered to your reg pate. so when your wifes plate goes through with your tag, tag will get charged but allocated to your reg and not your wifes!


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    #18
    Krombopulos Michael
    Registered Users Posts: 1,088 ✭✭✭Krombopulos Michael


    Seve OB wrote: »
    so you bring your tag in your wifes car on the M50?

    grand for toll barriers, but for M50 that wouldn't work. your tag is registered to your reg pate. so when your wifes plate goes through with your tag, tag will get charged but allocated to your reg and not your wifes!

    Usually when I take the wifes car, I go into the eflow app and change the reg on the tag to that of my wifes care so all good.


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    #19
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Seve OB wrote: »
    so it wasn't hypothetical at all :)


    It could be answered hypothetically.



    That it was ALSO real was irrelevant :pac::p


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