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Car Reg published online at work

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  • #52
    ForestFire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,474 ✭✭✭ForestFire


    Thirdfox wrote: »
    Page 121 of the Rules of the road:
    https://www.garda.ie/en/Crime/Traffic-matters/Rules_of_the_road.pdf



    Think that's pretty clear.

    Its clear that the "Must" is applicable to where pedestrians are already on the crossing (Not pedestrians intending to cross).

    The last line is a catch all, "If in Doubt" recommendation/Advice and not a clear "Must" requirement

    Also you are quoting from the general guidelines section, where I have quoted from the exact section covering Zebra crossings.

    Is this section not clear also? Including the musts do's for pedestrians, that they do not have automatic right of way? (Priority yes)

    This thread is about an employee that has been accused and identified by his company with no evidence that he has done anything wrong, and even if there was some sort of evidence its unlikely the company know or care about the duty of both the Drive and the pedestrian.


  • #53
    ForestFire
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,474 ✭✭✭ForestFire


    Claw Hammer wrote: »
    The "Rules of the Road" are not the "Laws of the Road" nor do they purport to be.
    They are for guidance of road users and so are advisory. They are concerned with safety rather than defining rights. People follow the Rules of the Road, they are far less likely to have an accident. What is dangerous as people relying on technical definitions of right of way rather than on common sense.

    Thanks for this info. Is there a place where the actually laws (Rater than rules) is available on this? It would be interesting to see how this differs or is similar to the rules.


  • #54
    Claw Hammer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,289 ✭✭✭Claw Hammer


    ForestFire wrote: »
    Thanks for this info. Is there a place where the actually laws (Rater than rules) is available on this? It would be interesting to see how this differs or is similar to the rules.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/


  • #55
    Thirdfox
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,110 ✭✭✭Thirdfox


    ForestFire wrote: »
    Thanks for this info. Is there a place where the actually laws (Rater than rules) is available on this? It would be interesting to see how this differs or is similar to the rules.

    Specifically this:
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1964/si/294/made/en/print (as amended but I'm not too bother to track it all down).

    Section 22 is one relevant section (which is reflected pretty much word for word in the rules of the road):
    22 When right of way to be yielded


    22.—(1) When starting from a stationary position a driver shall yield the right of way to other traffic and pedestrians.


    (2) A driver approaching a road junction shall yield the right of way to another vehicle which has commenced to turn or cross at the junction in accordance with these bye-laws, and to a pedestrian who has commenced to cross at the junction in accordance with these bye-laws.


    (3) A driver entering a public road from a place which is not a public road shall yield the right of way to all vehicles proceeding in either direction along the public road.


    (4) (a) A driver shall, before entering a major road by a road on which a Stop sign has been erected, halt the vehicle on the roadway at or near the Stop sign and yield the right of way to traffic on the major road.


    (b) A driver halting the vehicle in compliance with this bye-law shall, where a stop line has been provided at or near a Stop sign, halt the vehicle at the stop line and shall ensure that, when the vehicle is halted, its front wheels (or wheel) have (or has) not crossed the stop line.


    (5) A driver shall, before entering a major road by a road on which a Yield Right of Way sign has been erected, yield the right of way to traffic on the major road.


    (6) A driver approaching a road junction by a road which is not a major road shall, before entering a major road in respect of which there is not an authorised traffic sign indicating that the last mentioned road is a major road, yield the right of way to traffic on the major road.


    (7) A driver approaching a road junction to which paragraph (4), (5) or (6) of this bye-law does not apply shall yield the right of way to traffic approaching the junction from the right by another road.


    (8) A driver approaching a road junction and intending to turn right at the junction shall yield the right of way to a vehicle approaching on the same road from the opposite direction and intending to proceed straight through the junction.


    (9) A driver approaching a zebra crossing shall yield the right of way to a pedestrian on the crossing.

    And similarly for pedestrians in section 38 (which is what clawhammer is talking about - also reflected pretty much word for word in the rules of the road):
    38.—(1) On a roadway on which a zebra crossing has been provided a pedestrian shall not cross the roadway within 50 feet of the crossing except by the crossing.

    (2) When a vehicle is approaching a zebra crossing a pedestrian shall not step on to that crossing if his action is likely to cause the driver either to brake suddenly or to swerve.

    @Clawhammer - don't know how my post offended you (or if indeed you are offended) text makes inflections hard to read - but the rules of the road are a reflection of statute (see above). There's a reason why "must" is used - because the text reflects statutory provisions directly. The "should" is certainly advisory - though a judge may look into why one chose to ignore such advice.

    As a lawyer who's not at all familiar with road traffic law cases if I was representing a client hit by a car crossing a zebra crossing (where the pedestrian had not yet placed a foot on the crossing when the car came into view) then the argument I'd forward would be that any car driving at a reasonable speed for the road should be able to stop in good time and certainly my client thought his stepping out was not likely to cause sudden braking or swerving (and objectively so). It'd be up to the respondent to then show that the pedestrian stepped out in such a manner (car was 5m away and travelling at 50km legally and thus simply unable to stop in good time etc.) that caused the accident. Must be an objective test of what is "likely" to cause sudden braking or swerving - most people should be a good judge of that themselves.

    My contribution to the thread had nothing to do with OP's gdpr question - but was trying to clarify where cars must yield since it seemed like there was some confusion.


  • #56
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,750 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    I wouldn't bother reading anything into Claw Hammer's mood tbh.

    Why would you I mean in response to the question, "is there a legislative source for the Rules of the Road?" the guy posts a link to all the legislation ever enacted.


  • #57
    ittakestwo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,685 ✭✭✭ittakestwo


    Thirdfox wrote: »
    Specifically this:
    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1964/si/294/made/en/print (as amended but I'm not too bother to track it all down).

    Section 22 is one relevant section (which is reflected pretty much word for word in the rules of the road):


    And similarly for pedestrians in section 38 (which is what clawhammer is talking about - also reflected pretty much word for word in the rules of the road):



    @Clawhammer - don't know how my post offended you (or if indeed you are offended) text makes inflections hard to read - but the rules of the road are a reflection of statute (see above). There's a reason why "must" is used - because the text reflects statutory provisions directly. The "should" is certainly advisory - though a judge may look into why one chose to ignore such advice.

    As a lawyer who's not at all familiar with road traffic law cases if I was representing a client hit by a car crossing a zebra crossing (where the pedestrian had not yet placed a foot on the crossing when the car came into view) then the argument I'd forward would be that any car driving at a reasonable speed for the road should be able to stop in good time and certainly my client thought his stepping out was not likely to cause sudden braking or swerving (and objectively so). It'd be up to the respondent to then show that the pedestrian stepped out in such a manner (car was 5m away and travelling at 50km legally and thus simply unable to stop in good time etc.) that caused the accident. Must be an objective test of what is "likely" to cause sudden braking or swerving - most people should be a good judge of that themselves.

    My contribution to the thread had nothing to do with OP's gdpr question - but was trying to clarify where cars must yield since it seemed like there was some confusion.

    The problem here is that if a collision occurs the pedestrian is on the zebra crossing where a driver has to give way according to section 22. (9). If a collision occurs the pedestrian will say the drive should have stopped while the driver will say the pedestrian walked out infront and they could not stop in time.

    Zebra crossing are at places where there is good sight lines on approach. A driver will always see that a pedestrian is approaching the zebra crossing and should take precaution. If doing a driving test and there is a person approaching the zebra crossing who is not yet on it and you don't stop to give them way you will fail your test.

    I see to get around this contention they have put the start of zebra crossing on the footpath to make it clear to drivers to give way to the pedestrian at zebra crossings.


  • #58
    evolving_doors
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭evolving_doors


    This talk of zebra crossings might be a waste of time if it's in a company carpark.


  • #59
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    evolving_doors wrote: »
    This talk of zebra crossings might be a waste of time if it's in a company carpark.

    Yes, there's a high chance that technically they're just paint on the road and have no legal bearing.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #60
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,440 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Safety is everyone's responsibility, so everyone needs to have access to information about known hazards. A car that has not respected a pedestrian crossing in the past is, on average, more likely to do so again in the future.

    Presumably you'd be in favour of public publishing of all Garda speed check results, so that everyone has access to information about known hazards?

    OP - does this public forum contain all kinds of allegations without any substantiation or due process investigation?


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  • #61
    Carawaystick
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,779 ✭✭✭Carawaystick


    ED E wrote: »
    What are you basing that on?

    The GDPR
    personal data’ means any information relating to an identified or identifiable natural person (‘data subject’); an identifiable natural person is one who can be identified, directly or indirectly, in particular by reference to an identifier such as a name, an identification number,


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